I find 308 Win to be the most forgiving rifle cartridge and 357 mag the easiest pistol
- Thread starter Dildobaggins
- Start date
I answered "yes" When my .308 asked if she looked fat in that dress in the early 2000's, and she is still mad at me. 
I mean from a pure ease of reloading standpoint, I don’t think it gets easier than the 300 BLK. Good for deer and hogs to about 50 yardsWhen I first saw this thread, I was thinking about my 45-70 BPCR loads when I started. Fill that big case with fffg Black powder and seat a bullet. Too Easy.
@sirhrmechanic was right on with 38 special too.
I still roll back to 308 for a wide variety of suitable powders and bullets that will cover a variety of targets and ranges. Are there better cartridges for different applications? YES! But for component availability and the niche of JOATMON the 308 fills the check boxes.
Standardized barrel twists? .308?
You are joking, right?
New MRAD .308 is something like 1:8. TRG is 1:11.5. Gain twist is coming back in a big way.
Standardized? Not so much.
Sirhr
True, but for the most part, any 308 will shot any of the common 308 bullets, where as with the 223, you find a lot of barrels that wont stabilize the heavy stuff. Going all the way to 1 in 8 seems very niche for the .308. The only people needing that fast of twist are going to be shooting heavy subs. I shot 208 a max out of my 1 in 12 factory remington.
How far do/did you typically shoot that Amax and what MVs are/were you getting? Im assuming a 24” or 26” tube or did you trim it down?
26" they were only about 2300 or 2350. I typically didn't shoot that bullet in the 308, I just tried them once. I typically shoot that bullet in the 300wm.
Yep, i loved it in my win mag. Too bad its out of production…
Owning .308s, 6.5x47s, and even a 6.5 Creedmoor, I'd give the "easy button" in load development to the x47. However, the .308 and 6.5 CM are extremely easy to get to shoot well too...plus the fact that the x47 is starting to look like its going to fade into obscurity would make me contradict myself and recommended something else.
Since the OP wants to hunt black bear with the rifle, if it were me and my money...Id go .308. Recoil is a bit more than the CM, but I've grown fond of the impulse...similar to shooting a 1911 in .45 ACP with the slower "push". Plus, that 0-250 energy transfer is going going to be greater with the .308.
I have no complaints about any of the three cartridges I mentioned though. They all just work, and work well.
Since the OP wants to hunt black bear with the rifle, if it were me and my money...Id go .308. Recoil is a bit more than the CM, but I've grown fond of the impulse...similar to shooting a 1911 in .45 ACP with the slower "push". Plus, that 0-250 energy transfer is going going to be greater with the .308.
I have no complaints about any of the three cartridges I mentioned though. They all just work, and work well.
Basically anything that uses Varget efficiently, it’s just an easy consistent powder that’s not finicky lot to lot, doesn’t carbon ring like 4350, 4831, and H1000, and is just clean with the best temperature stability of any powder.
223, 6BR, 6Dasher, 6.5x47, 308. Pick your poison.
I’d say 6BR, 6Dasher and 6.5x47 are the absolute easiest. I know people who don’t even bother with load development with BR and Dasher and I’m convinced it’s not necessary with 6.5x47 either, I had multiple barrels that 36.8gr of Varget behind a 140 Hybrid .020 off the lands was the load and that’s a lot of other peoples load too. Look at the BR and Dasher load threads and you’ll see the some consistency.
223, 6BR, 6Dasher, 6.5x47, 308. Pick your poison.
I’d say 6BR, 6Dasher and 6.5x47 are the absolute easiest. I know people who don’t even bother with load development with BR and Dasher and I’m convinced it’s not necessary with 6.5x47 either, I had multiple barrels that 36.8gr of Varget behind a 140 Hybrid .020 off the lands was the load and that’s a lot of other peoples load too. Look at the BR and Dasher load threads and you’ll see the some consistency.
I'll count my BRA in with your BR category - yes, that class of caliber is stupid easy to load for and shoot. Fire forming rounds get me sub-.5 MOA with what is essentially a randomly picked lower load. My last trip out to the hills with the BRA, I was hitting a 1400 yard target with a 2.7 SD over about 20 rounds measured. It's easy on the barrel too (not that 308 isn't) - I've got more than 1k rounds on this barrel, and the lands have barely moved.
Is it enough for bear? Dunno.
I agree that there is a pattern... I don't think it's a coincidence that every 6mm cartridge that's known as "easy to load" has Varget in the recipe.
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308 and 6 GT for me
Have you purchased a stock yet. Or is the stock pending your caliber choice? Do you want a short action?
Do you want a detachable magazine and if so what size? What is your weight range and optic for the rig?
All the above will help you decide your caliber.
If its one rifle to rule them all, then 308 or 30/06.
Do you want a detachable magazine and if so what size? What is your weight range and optic for the rig?
All the above will help you decide your caliber.
If its one rifle to rule them all, then 308 or 30/06.
Varget is pretty famous for its lot to lot variance. Its also a pretty hot powder, which can hard on throats. I can say I have never had a carbon ring in a gun I use Varget in. I never had carbon ring problems before or after I stopped using bore guides to clean.
How can a bore guide that barely enters the chamber possibly cause a carbon ring in the throat?
I did not realize bore guides were specific to cartridge, just learned that now. So I was shoving what i bet is a 223 bore guide way up into the shoulder of a 22-250. I am not sure how or if it was related for that matter. It was the only time I have ever used one, and i had problems, so I put it away. I have never had any trouble cleaning without one, so I never revisited the situation. I stuffed it in a drawer until today, and never looked at bore guides again.
They arent specific to cartridge either, they are somewhat specific to bore diameter but that’s it. They’ve got a universal cone that’s designed to butt up in the chamber just barely inside the chamber. Unless you’ve got a 22-50BMG wildcat that bore guide isn’t getting anywhere near the throat. A bore guide had absolutely nothing to do with your carbon rings and cleaning a barrel without one is silly.
Could be right, except about the cleaning without one being "silly." And about the lot to lot Varget thing. I don't know about the carbon ring thing. I shot out a 300wm barrel with 4831SC and never experienced a carbon ring. I shot a lot of 4831SC in a 6.5 Creed and never experienced a carbon ring.
No cone on mine either.
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Powder, bullet and primer seem to mirror AB39 (aka Mk316 mod 0), just the brass was stamped different (prob has the same case capacity). I think Federal changed the GMM powders a couple times since but not sure exactly which powders; I heard/read 2000MR or AR Comp but could be way off on that.
You beat me to it. In 6mm I use one of those with a square of cut-up old t-shirt and an AR chamber brush.
Guys get carbon rings because they're boneheads, it's their fault, not the powder's fault.
I have had something of the sort since about 2007 when I bought my first AR.
There are certainly powders that carbon ring worse, and powders that don't carbon ring. There are types of shooting that tend to build carbon rings worse.
Not the subject of this thread. Further discussion should probably be in another thread.
I'd be interested in that thread. Please continue it here haha.
Why not educate them if that's the case ? What do think their carbon ring is caused by ?
Thought it was self-explanatory...
IMO, a carbon ring is caused by improper cleaning, period.
Many guys (even the ones who clean their guns after every session) ignore the chamber area and just in front of it... which is dumb, because carbon rings form right at, or just in front of the chamber area. A guy could clean his rifle every single day and if he ignores the chamber every time, then whether they get a carbon ring or not has to do with how lucky they are as much as anything else.
I try to remember to clean my bolt-gun every 200-400rds or so, so I'm not nearly as anal about it as some around here. And from what I've seen, I'm not sure my 10-minute cleaning process using Boretech Eliminator, cotton patches, nylon brushes, and zero else... even qualifies as "clean" to some guys' with their rituals that require abrasives, breaking out borescopes, and all kinds of shit with some guys thinking they need to get down to bare metal (you absolutely don't btw).
But, what I don't do is: skip over the main area where the explosion/combustion takes place (chamber) lol.
Once I'm just about done cleaning the barrel, I pull the bore guide, break out the 10" chamber rod with a nylon AR chamber brush on the end, wet a piece of cotton t-shirt or large patch big enough to wrap over the AR brush in Eliminator, and I clean the chamber area really well with a little back and forth and twisty twist. Then I attach a chamber mop and hit it real quick to clean up any excess Eliminator, and boom, the bore guide goes back in and I run my last few patches through the barrel and I'm done.
Voila! no carbon rings.
ETA: The AR brush works great for 6mm because it's purposely a little too small (so it leaves room for the cotton t-shirt/patch), and being smallerish, it easily reaches into the barrel a little bit to really get the freebore area/lands/and just past the lands. Obviously, different cartridges might require a different chamber brush and/or another layer of patch/t-shirt...
Visual aid:
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Most of all that work would not be needed if brass was trimmed to the proper length for the chamber . No carbon in the first place is my goal .
And how will that do anything to address the freebore where carbon rings form?
he's implying the carbon ring tends to form in a gap between the brass and freebore proper.
Arguably you do want to clean the throat/lede outside the rifling, basically everything outside of the rifling.
AFAIK, this includes...
1. lede/freebore (carbon)
2. neck (carbon)
3. main body area (sharpie ink, dirt)
4. bolt lug raceways etc. (old grease, possibly dust, etc)
Somebody can correct me if this is wrong.
If the brass touches it that’s just a dirty chamber. He was trying to be a smart ass to ck but was technically wrong. So fuck Haney.
Just to be clear, this is a gap in the reamer print along the bore-axis...before the free bore. Its not the gap around the neck circumfirentaially (like a 272 vs 270 neck or whatever). A gap after "in front of" the brass and before the freebore is going to be subject to blast, including carbon deposition.
Thanks.
Alright, so I think I'm gonna go with a 20in barrel in 308 win.
I’m 100% in agreement with 300 wsm being overkill for deer, hogs, and black bears. I don’t get the aura of black bears. The same ones that dudes are always sharing videos of climbing up their treestands and then poking their buddy with a sharp stick at 10 yards..
Ain’t nobody want to go to the range and shoot a lightweight (unbraked) 300wsm and it makes sense to burn less money and shoot something that doesn’t beat the shit out of you.
6.5x47 is easiest I’ve loaded for but I’ve got a tikka with light 18” 6 and 6.5 creed barrels on the way for whitetail, coyote, pronghorn, and bear duty for factory ammo for range time. I expect the 6.5 barrel to mostly collect dust.
Ain’t nobody want to go to the range and shoot a lightweight (unbraked) 300wsm and it makes sense to burn less money and shoot something that doesn’t beat the shit out of you.
6.5x47 is easiest I’ve loaded for but I’ve got a tikka with light 18” 6 and 6.5 creed barrels on the way for whitetail, coyote, pronghorn, and bear duty for factory ammo for range time. I expect the 6.5 barrel to mostly collect dust.
The .260 didn't even get a tenth of the support that the 6.5 Creedmoor has. Popular amongst reloaders in specific disciplines, but beyond that the cartridge never saw the support and thus popularity that it deserved.
Arguably the 6.5 Creedmoor wouldn't exist if the .260 was properly supported.
My vote is 6.5 Creedmoor, though there's lots of ways you could go.
Great ballistics, plenty of component variety & quality, recoil is very manageable and not too unforgiving of your fundamentals (but enough to give you feedback on the target).
You can load 156 heavies or go light and fast with 123's. Quality & plentiful projectile selection. Lots of support when it comes to brass options.
Great ballistics, plenty of component variety & quality, recoil is very manageable and not too unforgiving of your fundamentals (but enough to give you feedback on the target).
You can load 156 heavies or go light and fast with 123's. Quality & plentiful projectile selection. Lots of support when it comes to brass options.
Keep trolling, dumb fuck . You suck at admitting you don't know shit .
You really don't get this shit do you . Keep trolling though, it fits you well .
I just realized you are the troll that goes by the name of Guffey on other forums . Now it makes sense . Loser .
The irony of your second sentence in this post...is probably lost on you Sir.
And that is the point… support from the masses has made it… better?
A ballistics popularity contest?
You are 100 percent right. But that does not make something “win” in a true first-best-most proposition when it comes to actual utility or performance.
In a couple of years, 6.5 could well be the MySpace of cartridges… stomped by the popular Fakebook of cartridges which, itself, will be eclipsed by the TIKTok of cartridges.
Popular is not better.
Not that there is anything wrong with 6.5 Creed. But let’s revisit this thread in 10 years.
Sirhr
Would the 6 creed exist if the 243 was properly supported? I see the same deficiencies in case design between the 243 and 260. Not that they aren't fine cartridges, but when given the option of a steeper shoulder and less case stretching i don't see anything wrong with migrating to it.
I say that despite owning a 243 and 22-250.
I say that despite owning a 243 and 22-250.
And you suck dick but openly admit it so I guess we’re even
A picture of haney realizing
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Ballistically the 6.5 Creedmoor doesn't do anything better. They are ballistic twins, with the .260 having a slight edge on velocity capability.
Arguably the 6.5 Creedmoor is more optimized for feeding from mags while still utilizing full COAL.
I don't think 6.5 Creedmoor is going anywhere, not with the amount of support it's seen. There will always be new cartridges, no doubt about that. But I don't think the 6.5 Creedmoor will fade into obscurity like the .260. Unlike the 6.5 Creedmoor, the .260 was never even given a proper chance.
Meanwhile the 6.5x55 sits in the background looking forward to celebrating it's 200th birthday as others come and go trying to do things it long ago did.
(oh but the new ones are like 1/4th an inch shorter, wow so much better). Prikstyle bullets look at all the new VLD stuff and say, nice update there junior.
gonna catch some flack for this, but 260 and 6.5 creedmoor have been incredibly easy to load for.
Like properly trimmed brass eliminates carbon rings?
Yes! You can hear the supplication of power to help him win his arguments, “the mods let”… Weak men are disgraceful.
Wait...so will improperly trimmed brass will or will NOT lead to a carbon ring, or make a carbon ring worse? Everyone put your dicks back in your pants, and end this pissing contest.
