EC tuner brake

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#101
Dthomas3523 said:
This is not great info.

As long as running high quality bullets, it’s very rare to find a bullet your “barrel doesn’t like.” For example, I have not found a single Berger or hornady (eld) that won’t shoot.

The more likely scenario is that your barrel just isn’t that good and won’t shoot as well as other barrels. Rather than it “just doesn’t like a bullet.”
Click to expand...
Fair point, but I meant more along the lines of trying to run bullets that are too heavy for your twist rate and hoping a tuner will fix it. A tuner won't fix the issues that appear when trying to run a 77gr+ 22 cal projectile out of a shorter 12 twist barrel.
 
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#103
Eric Cortina is running a full profile 1-1/4” barrel on his F-class rifle so to the question does it work on a heavy barrel is yes.
I have a 26” Bartlein in 6GT being spun up at Mile High and it will have the EC Tuner and a 419 break. I will post results In the next couple weeks.
 
#104
colodrew said:
Eric Cortina is running a full profile 1-1/4” barrel on his F-class rifle so to the question does it work on a heavy barrel is yes.
I have a 26” Bartlein in 6GT being spun up at Mile High and it will have the EC Tuner and a 419 break. I will post results In the next couple weeks.
Click to expand...

Hi,

But his non MB tuner weight is 3x what his tuner brake is. Do you know if he intends to scale the weight down in the non MB version?

Can you please post the pic of his 1.25 barrel with the MB Tuner? The MB Tuner is listed at only 1.1" diameter so I am curious as to see what that looks like.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
#108
THEIS said:
Hi,

But his non MB tuner weight is 3x what his tuner brake is. Do you know if he intends to scale the weight down in the non MB version?

Can you please post the pic of his 1.25 barrel with the MB Tuner? The MB Tuner is listed at only 1.1" diameter so I am curious as to see what that looks like.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...

You could make your own. It's not rocket surgery and current offerings leave something to be desired.
 
#110
I have already ordered the ECtunerbrake and will be getting one of Rydah's as well when they are available. Will test on 6.5CM and 300WM or maybe 300PRC if I build one.

Side note, EC is on team Lapua for a reason and I highly doubt he would have wasted time with the new combo if it didn't work nor would he endorse a shady product after the success of the OG tuner he has...
 
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#111
THEIS said:
Hi,

But his non MB tuner weight is 3x what his tuner brake is. Do you know if he intends to scale the weight down in the non MB version?

Can you please post the pic of his 1.25 barrel with the MB Tuner? The MB Tuner is listed at only 1.1" diameter so I am curious as to see what that looks like.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
He makes one special for the 1.25" profile. He says in his videos to contact him to special order one.
 
#118
winklche said:
Why wouldn't that be allowed in F-Class? It's just a tuner, not a brake. They spin it up to look like its just a part of the barrel from the pictured I've seen.
Click to expand...

Ok, one of us is confused.

EC Tuners are readily available in:

1.25 straight
Tapered that are 1.25 and taper to 1”
Tuner brake that is 1.1”

None of those require special order and are on the site. I own all of these.
 
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#119
Since tuners are becoming mainstream and 2021 will be the year of the tuner has anyone done the math.

We know the length and stiffness of the barrel /contour and it’s material.

We know the weight and distance the tuner moves per setting/rotation.

Has anyone actually sat down on a spreadsheet and figured out the weight/distance formulas.

After that’s figured out there is no more debate over if a particular tuner works or not on “your” rifle.

X-weight has to move y-distance for this barrel length/contour.

I would think after that, tuners can properly be sized for the correct/particular barrel specs.

These are not one size fits all accessories.
 
#120
Dthomas3523 said:
Ok, one of us is confused.

EC Tuners are readily available in:

1.25 straight
Tapered that are 1.25 and taper to 1”
Tuner brake that is 1.1”

None of those require special order and are on the site. I own all of these.
Click to expand...
I thought his standard straight tuner was 1.1" in diameter, not 1.25" so I was all messed up.
 
#121
brianf said:
Since tuners are becoming mainstream and 2021 will be the year of the tuner has anyone done the math.

We know the length and stiffness of the barrel /contour and it’s material.

We know the weight and distance the tuner moves per setting/rotation.

Has anyone actually sat down on a spreadsheet and figured out the weight/distance formulas.

After that’s figured out there is no more debate over if a particular tuner works or not on “your” rifle.

X-weight has to move y-distance for this barrel length/contour.

I would think after that, tuners can properly be sized for the correct/particular barrel specs.

These are not one size fits all accessories.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what math could really be done here other than maybe there is a certain moment to area ratio that works well. Most of the tuner stuff is a guess and check game.

Barrel harmonics is black magic thats way above my head. If there's a good way to model it mathematically, I'm unaware of it.
 
#122
Dthomas3523 said:
Interesting. That would be basically limited to prs guys running 1.25. Since no brake allowed in F class.
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You can't use a brake in F class? I'm curious the actual reason for this. I know we can use em in BR and PRS and obviously ELR/ULR stuff. Never really payed much attention to F class.
 
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#123
Think of it from the other side.

Who cares what the tuner is doing...

If it works it’s because the tuner has moved a certain amount of weight toward or away from the receiver

Nothing more nothing less.

Leave the blacks magic out if it and possibly focus on that we know for sure.

Ex

A particular barrel might need the tuner moved farther out than another barrel of similar proportions.

But as long as the tuner has the weight and the correctly sized adjustments the tuner will work in that component/barrel criteria.

Shooting a truck axel barrel will need a much heavier tuner than a pencil thin hunter.

That tuner weight and it’s adjustment is just a percentage of barrel strength/flexibility.
 
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#124
trevorsmithsr said:
You can't use a brake in F class? I'm curious the actual reason for this. I know we can use em in BR and PRS and obviously ELR/ULR stuff. Never really payed much attention to F class.
Click to expand...

Because it’s very uncomfortable when laying next to 20 other shooters under a canopy or awning.

Other disciplines you aren’t right next to each other as much.
 
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#125
brianf said:
Think of it from the other side.

Who cares what the tuner is doing...

If it works it’s because the tuner has moved a certain amount of weight toward or away from the receiver

Nothing more nothing less.

Leave the blacks magic out if it and possibly focus on that we know for sure.

Ex

A particular barrel might need the tuner moved farther out than another barrel of similar proportions.

But as long as the tuner has the weight and the correctly sized adjustments the tuner will work in that component/barrel criteria.

Shooting a truck axel barrel will need a much heavier tuner than a pencil thin hunter.

That tuner weight and it’s adjustment is just a percentage of barrel strength/flexibility.
Click to expand...
What you're talking about is a moment force to cross sectional area ratio with a factor for barrel material thrown in. Longer barrel and heavier tuner means a larger moment on the barrel. Divide that by the (average?) cross sectional area of the barrel.

It may give a useful number and it may not. We know all those variables are related, but we (or at least I) don't know how they are related exactly. The ratio method as I described above assumes a linear or inversely linear relationship between all the variables. That could be true, but some of those variables could be raised to a power, rooted, or have a modifying factor.

For example, maybe the barrel contour matters much more than the weight of the tuner, so the cross sectional area should be squared, or the weight of the tuner should be multiplied by a half because that's what the data shows.

I see your point, the only thing I'm getting at is that we don't know the exact relationship between all these variables, just a starting guess. It would take a lot of different barrels, tuners, and ammo to test all that and come up with a sound relation equation, unless one already exists that I'm not aware of.
 
#126
brianf said:
Since tuners are becoming mainstream and 2021 will be the year of the tuner has anyone done the math.

We know the length and stiffness of the barrel /contour and it’s material.

We know the weight and distance the tuner moves per setting/rotation.

Has anyone actually sat down on a spreadsheet and figured out the weight/distance formulas.

After that’s figured out there is no more debate over if a particular tuner works or not on “your” rifle.

X-weight has to move y-distance for this barrel length/contour.

I would think after that, tuners can properly be sized for the correct/particular barrel specs.

These are not one size fits all accessories.
Click to expand...

This is what im curious about. It's a proven theory. But wheres the science behind it? Is it simply weight at the end of a barrel? Is it changing the harmonics or resonance of the barrel? wouldnt different brakes have a similar effect? Coudnt you just add weights to the brake? Or how about washers behind the brake?
 
#127
2aBaCa said:
This is what im curious about. It's a proven theory. But wheres the science behind it? Is it simply weight at the end of a barrel? Is it changing the harmonics or resonance of the barrel? wouldnt different brakes have a similar effect? Coudnt you just add weights to the brake? Or how about washers behind the brake?
Click to expand...
Yes and some people already do all that. It’s more trial and error. Some people even just progressively add rubber o rings onto the barrel until it groups well.
 
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#133
trevorsmithsr said:
No expert here by any means, but if you're syncing harmonics you are syncing the exact point the bullet leaves the barrel each time. This would in fact help keep all shots in the same timing window correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, but now explain how that effects the velocity leaving the muzzle enough to increase or decrease velocity significantly.
 
#134
Point being, at the highest level, no one uses a tuner to mess with SD or ES.

They solve that issue with powder charge long before the tuner is ever used. Tuner is the last step when you are developing a load being used for very precision/accuracy based games like 1k yd F class.

If the tuner influenced the SD significantly, this process wouldn’t work. As they would have to revisit powder after tuner.
 
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#136
less-than-fully-ebriated me hopped on this, I played with the settings, some 3 shot groups below.
At the very least its a confidence booster for me. This is factory federal 6cm in a proof research stainless barrel.
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#137
rydah said:
You answered your own question right there though didn’t you? From what I’ve seen, once you’ve sorted your charge weight then the tuners affect on standard deviations is negligible (especially since you won’t be going through a full rotation of adjustment to dial it in) but when tuning factory ammo or a random charge weight and standard deviations are high you’ve never noticed they can improve when you get the barrel in tune compared to when it’s completely out of tune?
Click to expand...

I can load a random charge weight in any of my 6 or 6.5cm and with quality scale and brass prep, I will never be over 15sd. If you have an sd that high, it’s not the random charge weight that’s the issue. It’s your brass quality.

And I’ve been using tuners for quite a while. Never seen 15 go to 2sd.


I’m not saying it’s impossible, but you would absolutely be the first to every claim your turner can affect SD in any meaningful way. You’re going to need a pretty strong explanation for that one.
 
#138
rydah said:
You’re putting words in my mouth.
Click to expand...

No, I’m not. You clearly said it will effect SD. And you’ve posted pics/video showing 15 and 2.

People are already taking that as you’d expect. If I were you, I’d make it very clear that you’re either saying it can do that, or it’s a random happenstance with statistical variance between different three shot groups.

Regardless, you have absolutely said it effects SD. But you have yet to explain how.
 
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#140
My phone actually dumped me on page 1 of this thread (my I phone does crazy stuff on this site)

I love the info but wasn’t this thread about the EC tuner.

I think the hide should move the Rydah brake/tuner to its own thread.

they are both new products, let each member have their own thread so there is no product or results confusion.

just a idea...
 
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#141
It,s already been done! Look up the Purdy Prescription or PRX. This method work exceptionally well and has been used by benchrest shooters for years. Some of the new tuners on the market are not harmonic tuners but simply mass dampeners.
 
#142
These are also brakes not just mass/tuners

not many brakes in the 22lr world.


tuners have been around for decades like everything else in the shooting world...nothing is new anymore


shit, a 30-06 is exactly the same as it was over 100 years ago yet there are still articles and news rifles chambered in it
 
#143
#144
rydah said:
People are posting about the ats and other tuners, youve got jgr pushing the ats every chance he gets and dthomas talking down everything that isn’t an ec tuner. Naturally people are going to compare and bring up other things but it’s all good I’ll stop posting updates here to help not clog it up anymore than it is.
Click to expand...

I haven’t talked down anything here. I was interested in buying it until you started the SD talk and borderline false advertising (since you want to call someone out, let’s call it like it is).

I’ve actually advised some to buy the ATS. I’m also waiting to see how people like this tuner brake before I talk about my fairly negative experience with this brake (an EC product that according to you I defend).
 
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#145
Dthomas3523 said:
I haven’t talked down anything here. I was interested in buying it until you started the SD talk and borderline false advertising (since you want to call someone out, let’s call it like it is).

I’ve actually advised some to buy the ATS. I’m also waiting to see how people like this tuner brake before I talk about my fairly negative experience with this brake (an EC product that according to you I defend).
Click to expand...
Im curious to what didn’t you like about it. Did the tuning not work with your barrel? I’ve got one ordered so I’m trying to learn as much as I can about others experiences with it.
 
#147
rydah said:
I’m happy to admit when I’m wrong or haven’t made something clear, I’m a reasonable kind of guy but you called me out and put words in my mouth that I didn’t mean and then started telling me what to do and claiming you are the authority on tuners and nobody else’s opinion or experience is valid.

If you actually want to have a discussion about tuners, the tmb and why I’ve seen things that lead me to believe the tuner sometimes does affect things other than group size I’m happy to show you the many tests I’ve done and repeatable phenomenon I’ve documented, then DM me, it might be fun, we might learn things or even become friends, if not then don’t worry about it, I’m good either way. But in 99% of situations maybe more, no it doesn’t affect anything other than group size in a meaningful or repeatable way and if you gave me a chance you would have been told that. I’m actually busy making videos that explain that anyways.

What’s your bad experience with the ec tuner brake, is that what you’re taking about? Because last I checked hipp was creating videos to try and get you to stop telling people the ats is going to move and throw peoples settings off if you bump it. Have you since decided you like the ats now?
Click to expand...

The EC tuner brake didn’t work for me on a 6cm mtu (or comp contour, but similar) running 6cm hornady factory ammo. The weight is likely too small. But I am a sample size of one. Hopefully others have very good experiences.

Also, the ATS has been changed to a tapered model that is much harder to catch on things. I merely pointed out that the straight edges would be easy to catch. I’m sure he made some videos showing it not catching. But now it’s a better shape than it was and everyone is happy.
 
#148
yea...my ATS is the new tapered one....I like it better...wasn't worried so much about knocking it off it's setting pulling off/out of a barricade...just snagging it and maybe having me put my muzzle in an unsafe direction when I'm in a hurry.
 
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#149
b2lee said:
yea...my ATS is the new tapered one....I like it better...wasn't worried so much about knocking it off it's setting pulling off/out of a barricade...just snagging it and maybe having me put my muzzle in an unsafe direction when I'm in a hurry.
Click to expand...

That was my main concern. Just catching it in general. I did ask if the material was strong enough not to bend.

I come off very blunt and it’s hard to not come off that way in written word. So it looked more like criticism than I intended.

But the design looks g2g
 
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#150
Dthomas3523 said:
The EC tuner brake didn’t work for me on a 6cm mtu (or comp contour, but similar) running 6cm hornady factory ammo. The weight is likely too small. But I am a sample size of one. Hopefully others have very good experiences.

Also, the ATS has been changed to a tapered model that is much harder to catch on things. I merely pointed out that the straight edges would be easy to catch. I’m sure he made some videos showing it not catching. But now it’s a better shape than it was and everyone is happy.
Click to expand...
How long of a barrel do you have in that contour? So I think you’re saying that for your application the ec tuner brake would need a heavier weight on it?
 
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