ELEY Practical Rimfire Challenge

thrusty

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thrusty

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Mar 14, 2012
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I'm expecting we'll be using only the main complex. I run out of elevation at around 350 yards on my CZ - so, I'd say that 400 yard ABSOLUTE max, with the majority of shots inside of 150 yards and of reasonable size for a given distance and shooting position.


If you want to know what scope you need...you need to be able to dial to at least 350.

For the long shots I'm looking for lightweight steel and electronic flashers to attach to them to indicate the impacts.
KYL stage, Jungle Run/Walk, Barricades, Rooftops, Mover, Dot drills, 22LR Spinning targets, Rubber targets that spin when you hit them (gofers, crows, etc). Maybe adding in the PRS skills stages and moving the targets in and making them smaller.

Think PRS....but 22LR. ;)
 
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RimfireShooter

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Will these events and their stages be recorded for all to see. It will be interesting to watch same as the PRS for those who can not attend.
 
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JG26_Irish

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Whatever will work for you. Targets can be from 10 yards out to 300 yards. Most are choosing a 50yrd zero.

Same here. Been recording dope for each distance with my rifle/ammo combo. It varies greatly from my ballistic table (mostly due to lower temps). Using more up clicks than table calls for. I run out of elevation adjustment at about 250y. Still having a tough time getting the old gurl on paper at 300y. Too far to see hits and hard to find time to get on the 300y line with privacy. A 300y walk back and forth is a long one for this old fart. Doing 4 or 5 times is too much. I need to dig out my spotting scope and a bigger tgt to start with. Have this on my to do list for next few weeks. Is shooting pretty tight at 200y and 250y so, I am pretty certain that once I find the setting, it will do ok at 300y as well.

Irish
 

tmpohuski7

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Still have some spots open for this Saturday's match. Follow the link in the OP for registration.
prize table sponsors include:

ELEY
Volquatrsen
Swaro
Kahles
Kestrel
Tandemkross
Lapua
SK Ammo
Hawk Hill Custom
MDT
Redding Reloading
Froglube
 

missed

nothing
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Feb 21, 2013
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I wish they would do some of the RF PRS style matches near me I think they would be really fun, and I would have a couple kids that would shoot it too.
 

Hookturnr

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  • Jan 20, 2012
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    I'm in...should be interesting for my first formal match..expect to have my ass handed to me but you have to start somewhere, right?
     

    Hookturnr

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  • Jan 20, 2012
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    I tried to get my shooting partner to sign up but he chickened out so I guess I'm squadding by myself..
     
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    cwinston

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    If you missed this match, you missed out on a really good time. Thanks for putting this on. I can't wait to get my hands on some of those Light React flashers. They were reliably indicating hits on steel at 300 yds with .22 LR.
     

    Hookturnr

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  • Jan 20, 2012
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    This match was a blast, I'll be shooting the next one for sure!
    The course of fire was just about the right mix of run n gun and precision distance. A couple hiccups along the way but nothing major and I'm sure it'll be even better next time. The guys at PNTC really put on a quality event and the sponsors stepped up in a big way to support the match. I know I'll be bringing along at least one more shooter next match and maybe two.
     

    dghboy315

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    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Excellent match! I highly encourage others to try to attend if you are in the area. Shooting 22lr is just fun. And the Light React flashers were awesome. All long distance matches should have them.

    My only comments are that I felt the points were a little to heavily biased toward the up close shots. Hitting a 50 yard target should not be worth the same as hitting a 275 yard target. But as the match directors said, they are still working on the format so hopefully it will be tweeked next time.
     

    JG26_Irish

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    Oct 17, 2013
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    I had a great time at this event. The PNTC staff and volunteers did a bang-up job of planning and putting on this event and the sponsors supported this relatively new type of match. Eley, Lapua, Kahles, Hawk Hill Custom, Kestrel and others stepped up to make the trip and prize table worthwhile. I sort of brought a knife to a gun-fight with my little bone stock Savage topped with a cheap 6-25x FFP optic valued at about $290. I further handicapped myself by not bringing a pair of 10rd mags. But coulda, woulda, shoulda, I still had a great time. Made some killer long shots and missed a bunch more, lol. At times some of the early stages felt a lot like an IPSC 3-gun match with run and gun and lots of short range off-hand shooting. However, there was plenty of long range precision shooting too and it was very challenging. The cross winds on the know your limits stage in the afternoon were strong enough that to hit the first big tgt I aimed at the middle tgt and let the wind blow the bullet about 18" to the right. But it did not blow steady forcing some fancy adjustments on the fly. The electronic flasher hit indicators on the longer tgts were very effective and made for easy no argument scoring of those stages. My squad was a great group who were continually offering to assist one another with everything from laser ranging of tgts to sharing mags to sharing rifles.

    The little Savage did OK, but did malfunction a few times when the last round in an aftermarket spare mag would refuse to feed wasting critical seconds in timed stages. Other times if I cycled the bolt too hard or too fast, it was failing to cock properly forcing me to recycle the bolt. It happened several times in the heat of the moment. Has never done it before, so I will have to run that to ground. Finally at the start of stage 8, I snagged the mag release on my shirt and accidentally bent it so much that the mags would not insert forcing a hasty gunsmithing job to fix it. One of our shooters DNF'ed when his gun and his backup gun both failed. I offered him my backup but he had experienced enough fun for one day and dropped out. Others were also plagued with issues. Our RO had problems with his CZ's bolt coming all the way out of the receiver if he cycled it too hard. Fun. It did not slow him down much as he finished about 5th place as I recall. Another of our squad got 3rd overall. It was funny. Most of the guns were fairly plain, run of the mill, CZ's, Savages, and Ruger 10/22's. I did not see any Annies, Coopers or Bleiker rifles. I did talk to one fellow who showed up with a single shot Suhl rifle for this event. Talk about handicaps?? I ended up a mid pack performer overall. I have not seen all the scores but was happy with my results considering what I was working with all day long. I attached a pic of most of our rifles. You can see they were fairly plain but most of those $300-400 rifles were topped with $2000-3500 optics like Night-Force, Razor, and Schmitt & Bender, lol. More than half were sporting suppressors too (nice). My little rig was 3rd from the right. The FFP scope was some help on the longer stages but in retrospect it was not a necessity. If I had it to do over, I would have brought more mags, topped the rifle with a better optic, and spent more time practicing my off-hand and kneeling shooting (I rarely do either).

    Fun event with great people. Many thanks to PNTC and our RO for providing us with a fun event that was run in a very organized and professional manner. The next event is May 13th I think. I cannot attend that one due to a charity event I am helping with but I do hope to return for the Sept event later this year. Great stuff.

    Irish
     

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    JG26_Irish

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    If you look close at the stage 8 pic, you will see three tgts ranging down the hill with the longest being about 248y if I recall (don't have the sheet with me), then the shooter shifts left to tgt 4 at 224y and right to tgt5 at what was it 275y? Finally the long shot of the day was 290y by laser, downhill. You can see this tgt at the edge of the treeline at the bottom of the hill located just above the muzzle of the shooter in the photo (Brix) who by the way finished 3rd overall (congrats brother). Great shooting!
     

    JG26_Irish

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    Glad you had a good time Irish - wish you could make it back for the next one, but I know we'll see ya again at some point.

    For any one else interested in photos of the stages and/or getting registered for the next match --- see the Facebook page.
    https://www.facebook.com/eleypracticalrimfirechallenge/

    Thrusty, Who made your target impact signal systems used at PNTC? I really liked those for long range scoring. They were 100% reliable. I am hoping to get some form of a practical rimfire series going at my club and we will want to get a few of those. Plus they will help out with our long range precision centerfire rifle matches.

    Irish
     

    Afkirby

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    I shot on squad two with Irish and I had a great time, I was shooting my CZ with a Primary Arms R-Grid scope. I hadn't shot it past 100 yards so those long shots were exciting. I was able to use holdovers for the whole time. Ended up finishing 25/42 and can't wait for the next match.

    -Kirby
     

    Trigger Monkey

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  • Apr 29, 2005
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    This match has been a long time coming and I want to congratulate thrusty on a well deserved win, he smashed it pretty good. All of the hard work that went into this match was well worth it and I had an excellent time and I know a lot of others did too. There were some teething issues, but that’s going to happen with any type of new event but I’ll back that up by saying that the issues are very minor and easily correctable for the next match.

    I heard some grumbling over the course of the day about this match being biased towards 10/22’s but let’s look at the facts, a bolt gun won the match and I know for sure took third spot. Some of the grumbling came from those that opted to bring a single shot .22LR to a match that was described as PRS-like. If you google PRS shooting and research it for a hot minute you’ll easily see that the field is dominated by magazine fed bolt action and semi-auto rifles, so plan accordingly. There were stages that gave semi-auto rifles an edge and there were stages that gave bolt guns an edge but if you weren’t running a magazine fed rifle you were struggling. Some of those guys did very well and cleaned some stages but they were working harder than most everyone else. To compete and do well at this kind of match I don’t think you need a high end rimfire rifle to do it either. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like a novice is going to come out with a bone stock gun and start killing it on every stage, you do have to have a pretty good handle on the fundamentals. That being said I was running a moderately modified 10/22 and did quite well with it, all while shooting CCI mini-mags no less. To clarify what I mean by moderately the rifle has a Green Mountain heavy barrel, a B&C stock, and a Power Custom hammer and sear set, and not much else to help with accuracy. I was using a 10X super sniper and I didn’t feel outmatched at all, it was a good magnification range for what we were doing I think. I may move to a variable power optic though as there a couple stages I wish I could’ve run with a wider FOV. I ran factory Ruger 10 rounders and didn’t have any issues with regards to feeding but I will probably end up putting an auto release in and trying a couple of BX 15 round magazines for the future.

    Probably the single most helpful piece of gear over the whole match was the Armageddon Gear Game Changer Bag because off the barricades or off a log, this thing was great. It’s one of those pieces of gear that is definitely worth the hype and the price. I was rock steady when I used it along with my other AG “pillow”, a Fat Bag, under my arm for a couple of the stages. My B&C stock didn’t really allow me to use a sling effectively, not that it was needed for a good number of the stages but I may add some flush cups or just splurge for a stock that has them already just in case I want to use an AG sling. I had a homemade dope card holder made from some kydex and one of those flexible ties from the hardware store to hold my dope cards, it worked pretty well but I’ll be upgrading for sure.
    The targets seemed to be another sticking point for some people and I’m not going to lie I had a criticism or two of my own but I think for this first match it wasn’t too bad at all. We had both steel and polymer targets, some were close and some were far away but I felt the mix was such that it could play on competitor’s weaknesses and strong points, just as a good match should. I’m still stoked that I nailed the 2” target at 165 yards both times with my 10/22, going into that stage I was really worried about it considering how CCI Mini-Mags can sometimes be inconsistent. I think the biggest complaint about the polymer targets was that on one stage, the spotters had trouble discerning if the movement of the target was from a bullet impact or the wind pushing it around some. However, some of that could be chalked up to the experience of the spotter, some do better than others. The target flashers were universally liked though and it was pretty cool for that they were sensitive enough to pick up .22LR impacts.

    Before game day I’d heard a complaint about the cost of the match and sure it looks steep at first glance but let’s take a look back at what that gets you. You get a full day of shooting nine stages that are fun and challenging, a free lunch (and not the brown bag variety), and a cool prize table, from which everyone walked away with at least a free box of ELEY ammo. This kind of match was the perfect spring board for someone that might want to get into PRS-type matches to see what match structure is like, shooting in different positions, and get a look at some of the gear too. I mean heck some of us were using some of the exact gear we do in centerfire precision matches, shooting on some of the same barricades, mimicking PRS stages. For the experienced shooters this match let them knock some of the rust off that may have built up over the winter, start practicing some of those positional shooting skills, and start thinking about what they need to work on. All of that for several boxes of .22 and a less than a C-note.
     

    cwinston

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    I agree with you Trigger Monkey. I was running a bolt gun with 10 round mags and didn't feel out gunned at all on any stage by the semi autos. This match reinforced my strengths and highlighted my weaknesses, which is exactly why I wanted to shoot the match in the first place.

    It was an awesome day and I can't thank the guys at Peacemaker, and all the sponsors for putting this on enough. I can't wait to see what they have in store for the next one. I'm already signed up.

    I just need to remember to not forget the sunscreen next time.
     

    Hookturnr

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  • Jan 20, 2012
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    Thrusty, Who made your target impact signal systems used at PNTC? I really liked those for long range scoring. They were 100% reliable. I am hoping to get some form of a practical rimfire series going at my club and we will want to get a few of those. Plus they will help out with our long range precision centerfire rifle matches.

    Irish

    I believe it was Lightreact but I'm not positive
     

    thrusty

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    Mar 14, 2012
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    Thrusty, Who made your target impact signal systems used at PNTC? I really liked those for long range scoring. They were 100% reliable. I am hoping to get some form of a practical rimfire series going at my club and we will want to get a few of those. Plus they will help out with our long range precision centerfire rifle matches.

    Irish

    They were loaned to us (sponsored the match) by LightReact. After some extensive testing with rimfire, they made the cut because they worked very well. A lot of the other light indicators we tested wouldn't work or wouldn't work reliably....mainly due to them requiring movement made on the target by the projectile hitting it. Whereas the LightReact worked off vibration.
     

    thrusty

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    Mar 14, 2012
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    This match has been a long time coming and I want to congratulate thrusty on a well deserved win, he smashed it pretty good. All of the hard work that went into this match was well worth it and I had an excellent time and I know a lot of others did too. There were some teething issues, but that’s going to happen with any type of new event but I’ll back that up by saying that the issues are very minor and easily correctable for the next match.

    I heard some grumbling over the course of the day about this match being biased towards 10/22’s but let’s look at the facts, a bolt gun won the match and I know for sure took third spot. Some of the grumbling came from those that opted to bring a single shot .22LR to a match that was described as PRS-like. If you google PRS shooting and research it for a hot minute you’ll easily see that the field is dominated by magazine fed bolt action and semi-auto rifles, so plan accordingly. There were stages that gave semi-auto rifles an edge and there were stages that gave bolt guns an edge but if you weren’t running a magazine fed rifle you were struggling. Some of those guys did very well and cleaned some stages but they were working harder than most everyone else. To compete and do well at this kind of match I don’t think you need a high end rimfire rifle to do it either. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like a novice is going to come out with a bone stock gun and start killing it on every stage, you do have to have a pretty good handle on the fundamentals. That being said I was running a moderately modified 10/22 and did quite well with it, all while shooting CCI mini-mags no less. To clarify what I mean by moderately the rifle has a Green Mountain heavy barrel, a B&C stock, and a Power Custom hammer and sear set, and not much else to help with accuracy. I was using a 10X super sniper and I didn’t feel outmatched at all, it was a good magnification range for what we were doing I think. I may move to a variable power optic though as there a couple stages I wish I could’ve run with a wider FOV. I ran factory Ruger 10 rounders and didn’t have any issues with regards to feeding but I will probably end up putting an auto release in and trying a couple of BX 15 round magazines for the future.

    Probably the single most helpful piece of gear over the whole match was the Armageddon Gear Game Changer Bag because off the barricades or off a log, this thing was great. It’s one of those pieces of gear that is definitely worth the hype and the price. I was rock steady when I used it along with my other AG “pillow”, a Fat Bag, under my arm for a couple of the stages. My B&C stock didn’t really allow me to use a sling effectively, not that it was needed for a good number of the stages but I may add some flush cups or just splurge for a stock that has them already just in case I want to use an AG sling. I had a homemade dope card holder made from some kydex and one of those flexible ties from the hardware store to hold my dope cards, it worked pretty well but I’ll be upgrading for sure.
    The targets seemed to be another sticking point for some people and I’m not going to lie I had a criticism or two of my own but I think for this first match it wasn’t too bad at all. We had both steel and polymer targets, some were close and some were far away but I felt the mix was such that it could play on competitor’s weaknesses and strong points, just as a good match should. I’m still stoked that I nailed the 2” target at 165 yards both times with my 10/22, going into that stage I was really worried about it considering how CCI Mini-Mags can sometimes be inconsistent. I think the biggest complaint about the polymer targets was that on one stage, the spotters had trouble discerning if the movement of the target was from a bullet impact or the wind pushing it around some. However, some of that could be chalked up to the experience of the spotter, some do better than others. The target flashers were universally liked though and it was pretty cool for that they were sensitive enough to pick up .22LR impacts.

    Before game day I’d heard a complaint about the cost of the match and sure it looks steep at first glance but let’s take a look back at what that gets you. You get a full day of shooting nine stages that are fun and challenging, a free lunch (and not the brown bag variety), and a cool prize table, from which everyone walked away with at least a free box of ELEY ammo. This kind of match was the perfect spring board for someone that might want to get into PRS-type matches to see what match structure is like, shooting in different positions, and get a look at some of the gear too. I mean heck some of us were using some of the exact gear we do in centerfire precision matches, shooting on some of the same barricades, mimicking PRS stages. For the experienced shooters this match let them knock some of the rust off that may have built up over the winter, start practicing some of those positional shooting skills, and start thinking about what they need to work on. All of that for several boxes of .22 and a less than a C-note.

    Ian, thanks for this - I think you're spot on on all accounts, at least that's my personal opinion. Glad you enjoyed it.
     

    poptart4YALL

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    Oct 8, 2012
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    stage5.JPG


    Just wanted to echo what everyone else said. It was a great match and I had blast. I came into it not really knowing what it was going to be like and more or less expected it to run like the matches the .22 Marksmanship Challenges the Long Range Shooters Utah folks put on and have numerous YouTube videos of. With that in mind I bought an 8-34x scopes and was ready (or thought I was) to shoot at tiny 1/4" targets at 50yds and punch a lot of paper from prone. I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't anything like that. Lots of offhand work that kicked my ass and the first time I've shot off of barricades (had no idea what I was doing on stage 3). But my training from high power kicked in and I figured out bone support and what not and was able to hold it together.

    I ran into an issue with my optic basically trying desperately to fail me, it wasn't tracking correctly and when you turned the turrets it didn't actually move the reticle until 2 or 3 shots in. So I restored to treating it like an ACOG and slapping the shit out of it everything time I touched the knobs. So that plus having a bad zero made things interesting. I used a ballistic calculator for most of my dope, but ran into the issue of having no idea what the actual BC for CCI SV is. I was able to get close enough to see the impact and adjust on the first target of most of the stages. Ended up using hold overs most of the match, that worked surprisingly well and saves time on the stages.

    The guys in my squad were great. Loads of information being shared and generous amounts tips and tricks being passed around. They were more than generous to lend everyone equipment when needed.

    I used a pretty heavily modified 10/22 and I'm not completely sure if I'd say it was a game changer compared to the bolt guns. Besides maybe a reliability things, I had no issues. Like Irish said lots of messed up mag catches and bolt issues were seen with CZ's and Savages. I also will probably be picking up a 15rd magazine, but I'm sure the match directors will just level the playing fields with mag limits and mandatory mag changes so I won't hold my breathe on getting way without reloading.

    The Prize table was loaded. I managed to grab a couple boxes of ammo and that almost covered the match fee so I think complaining about that is silly. The match is worth it even without the prize table.

    Disregard I stand corrected
    I did notice that one of the stages (2) was scored incorrectly for a couple shooters though. Ten targets total with the first eight being worth 1 point each and the last two being worth 2 points, maximum of 12 points. I think some people were score with all targets being worth 2 points each by accident. Doesn't really effect me, but something worth noting.
    Disregard I stand corrected


    Anyways, good job everyone that had a part in planning and coordinating these and thank you to the sponsors.

    -Poptart
     

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    thrusty

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    Just wanted to echo what everyone else said. It was a great match and I had blast. I came into it not really knowing what it was going to be like and more or less expected it to run like the matches the .22 Marksmanship Challenges the Long Range Shooters Utah folks put on and have numerous YouTube videos of. With that in mind I bought an 8-34x scopes and was ready (or thought I was) to shoot at tiny 1/4" targets at 50yds and punch a lot of paper from prone. I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't anything like that. Lots of offhand work that kicked my ass and the first time I've shot off of barricades (had no idea what I was doing on stage 3). But my training from high power kicked in and I figured out bone support and what not and was able to hold it together.

    I ran into an issue with my optic basically trying desperately to fail me, it wasn't tracking correctly and when you turned the turrets it didn't actually move the reticle until 2 or 3 shots in. So I restored to treating it like an ACOG and slapping the shit out of it everything time I touched the knobs. So that plus having a bad zero made things interesting. I used a ballistic calculator for most of my dope, but ran into the issue of having no idea what the actual BC for CCI SV is. I was able to get close enough to see the impact and adjust on the first target of most of the stages. Ended up using hold overs most of the match, that worked surprisingly well and saves time on the stages.

    The guys in my squad were great. Loads of information being shared and generous amounts tips and tricks being passed around. They were more than generous to lend everyone equipment when needed.

    I used a pretty heavily modified 10/22 and I'm not completely sure if I'd say it was a game changer compared to the bolt guns. Besides maybe a reliability things, I had no issues. Like Irish said lots of messed up mag catches and bolt issues were seen with CZ's and Savages. I also will probably be picking up a 15rd magazine, but I'm sure the match directors will just level the playing fields with mag limits and mandatory mag changes so I won't hold my breathe on getting way without reloading.

    The Prize table was loaded. I managed to grab a couple boxes of ammo and that almost covered the match fee so I think complaining about that is silly. The match is worth it even without the prize table.

    I did notice that one of the stages (2) was scored incorrectly for a couple shooters though. Ten targets total with the first eight being worth 1 point each and the last two being worth 2 points, maximum of 12 points. I think some people were score with all targets being worth 2 points each by accident. Doesn't really effect me, but something worth noting.

    Anyways, good job everyone that had a part in planning and coordinating these and thank you to the sponsors.

    Thanks - that's awesome you had a great experience and I hope you'll be back for more real soon.

    Just a heads up that Stage 2 was worth 22 points total - you were to continue engaging the LR steel with your remaining rounds (near to far) after you shot the 8 static steel up close. So if you first-round hit the 8 steel, that would have left you with 7 rounds left for the LR steel at 2 points per hit. 8 +14 = 22points total.
    The final scoring was correct with what scores were turned into the match director. Edit - yes, the stage description identified "remaining rounds" and "22 points" ;)
     

    Afkirby

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    Thanks - that's awesome you had a great experience and I hope you'll be back for more real soon.

    Just a heads up that Stage 2 was worth 22 points total - you were to continue engaging the LR steel with your remaining rounds (near to far) after you shot the 8 static steel up close. So if you first-round hit the 8 steel, that would have left you with 7 rounds left for the LR steel at 2 points per hit. 8 +14 = 22points total.
    The final scoring was correct with what scores were turned into the match director. Edit - yes, the stage description identified "remaining rounds" and "22 points" ;)

    7 rounds left for the long range steel? So did you have to shoot them back and forth since they were at two different ranges? So the last shot would be on the close target if you cleaned the stage? I don't think that our RO's read the stage that way to us.

    -Kirby
     
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    poptart4YALL

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    Just a heads up that Stage 2 was worth 22 points total - you were to continue engaging the LR steel with your remaining rounds (near to far) after you shot the 8 static steel up close. So if you first-round hit the 8 steel, that would have left you with 7 rounds left for the LR steel at 2 points per hit. 8 +14 = 22points total.
    The final scoring was correct with what scores were turned into the match director. Edit - yes, the stage description identified "remaining rounds" and "22 points" ;)

    Well shoot, guess we didn't get briefed correctly at the stage or we missed part. That's all right, it was a long day of shooting and we were trying to finish up fast since everyone was waiting on our squad. Edited original post to reflect this new info.

    I did like that stage. I liked the dynamic of this match and how it flipped from long range precision stuff, close range paper punching, offhand work, and to more run and gun stuff. Definitely tests a lot of skills on the cheap.

    -Poptart
     
    Last edited:

    thrusty

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    Very important to read stage descriptions in their entirety. Sometimes you should read it for yourself as well - if there are unanswered questions, call the MD.
     

    ASparrow

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    Did not care for stage 1 or the free hand shooting of stage 4 but loved the rest, stage 2 was a really fun stage. Would like to see more long range prone and barricade stuff.
    Overall the match was great! I'm really looking forward to the next one.


    I uploaded videos of all stages (except stage 1) to YouTube.
    Im not sure how to link my YouTube to here but if you go on YouTube and search Peacemaker Eley Practical Rimfire Challenge you should find them.

    See if this works...

    https://youtu.be/6LAs2NkhvKc

    https://youtu.be/R5o2CY7esdM

     

    jrfinley2

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    Newbie questions here. What scopes are you all using for this type of match? What power? Are you using a BDC reticle? Are you having to making elevation adjustments for each shot? Are the stages set so that the targets are in the same range so adjustments don't need to be made in the middle of the stage?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jim Finley

     

    Trigger Monkey

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    Well, I used a 10X Super Sniper and tied with the guy running a NF 7-35 ATACR F1 so......there was a good bit of swing on the magnification ranges. I saw 5-25's, 5-20's, stuff like that however the target sizes and the ranges were such that you could get by without a high magnification optic. Probably the greatest limiting factor for quite a few guys was being able to dial your parallax adjustment below 50 yards in order to get a relatively clear image. The work around if your scope didn't adjust below 50 yards is to dial the magnification down to a lower setting that opens up the field of view and helps provide a clearer image.

    I can't speak for everyone at the match but I think a good number of the guys in my squad were running a mil or MOA based reticle of some sort, I'm not sure if there were too many BDC reticles in attendance, I'm not sure how well that would've worked out with a .22 LR cartridge.


    Each stage was a little different, some you didn't have to dial anything, some you only had to make small corrections and a couple stages I might start out at say 2.6 mils and finish out the stage dialed up to 11.1 mils. Sort of like starting out shooting at a shade over 400 yards and wrapping up the stage shooting at about 1000 yards, dialing elevation wise.
     

    ASparrow

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    Jim,
    I'm running a 6-24 Vortex HS-LR FFP MOA with the XLR reticle on a CZ 455 with a 30 MOA D.I.P base.
    The longer range stages were varied distances. Stage 8 had 6 targets ranging from 177 to 289 yards. Stage 9 was similar with 5 targets ranging from 113 to 267 yards. Only one stage was one distance, the rest all varied.
    I dialed and used hold overs.

    I uploaded videos to YouTube and the visitors section of the Eley Practical Rimfire Challenge facebook page.
    .
     

    JG26_Irish

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    Newbie questions here. What scopes are you all using for this type of match? What power? Are you using a BDC reticle? Are you having to making elevation adjustments for each shot? Are the stages set so that the targets are in the same range so adjustments don't need to be made in the middle of the stage?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jim Finley

    I used a 6-25x FFP optic with 1/4MOA turrets and a Mil-Dot reticle sitting on top of a +25 MOA dip rail. I zeroed it at 50yds by dialing it almost all the way down. This allowed me to dial up enough to hit POA out to about 225-250y with std vel ammo. Out beyond that I dialed it all the way up 155 clicks (+38.75 MOA) and then added small hold overs for the longer shots (2-5 mil). This worked very good for me. There were some stages where it was faster to just hold over and not mess with the dials. It is not as precise but was necessary. Stages 2 & 6 come to mind. I was pretty pleased with the performance of my scope. It was not a high dollar unit and I had never shot one of them before. Still it reliably returned to zero every time and was clear enough at max power to do great on the dot drill. I too was one of the shooters who had no idea what to expect other than I knew that there would be long range precision shooting. Thus, I set up the rifle and my practice regimen mostly geared toward high precision shooting out to 200y and longer prone from a bipod or off the ruck. I was surprised to learn that 4 of the 5 stages were more weighted toward run & gun and/or close range off-hand shooting (not my forte being old and slow) and all but one stage required at least 15 rds and mag changes on the fly. I was fine with that but wished that I had known in advance so I could have brought a pair of 10rd mags along to compensate. As it was, I had only 2-5 rd mags with me which proved to be a big handicap. My squad mates did take pity on me and offer to reload a mag for me as I shot but I ran out of time before shooting all of my rounds on 7 of the 9 stages. That is giving up far too many points. Live and learn.

    The good news is that I was mostly pleased with the stages that I was correctly prepared to compete in (the longer, prone/sitting/kneeling stages), I was very pleased with my scope and rifles performance, I identified two mechanical things to improve with my rifle and another with the mags all of which should help us to do better in the future, and I have another idea that might help me to gain an additional improvement with the rifle. Plus, I know to spend a bit more time shooting off-hand just to stay sharp. Just an FYI - I only needed or wanted to use all of my scope's magnification on 2 stages (5 & 7). All the others, I found that dialing the scope to the 10-12x setting provided a wider FOV and thus faster tgt acquisition and that running it at 25x would have been a time handicap. So, there is little need for high powered optics. A 3-12x or 3-16x optic is plenty for this kind of match. The FFP is a benefit but not nearly as much as I had hoped it would be and running a SFP optic set at 10x so you can hold over with the reticle would have been just as effective on all but the 2 aforementioned stages me thinks.

    Irish
     

    thrusty

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    I'd concur with what Irish said. I was using a 6-24x Kahles as I would for a PRS match. I found myself utilizing 12x the majority of the time. Only time I dialed all the way in was on the KYL stage --- I tried to dial to 24x for the dot drill but found that it wasn't suitable for 40 yards and a 50 yard parallax.

    For the next matches, the guys that shot the first one are going to be WAY ahead of the curve. Which is good, you learned from your mistakes...but, as long as you had fun doing it, that's the most important part.

    For those of you whom didn't shoot and are considering shooting the next match - we'll say it again - it closely resembles the style of shooting that is prevalent in the Precision Rifle Series. So, that means: some movement, very little prone shots, barricades, often needing more than one magazine, often a limited round count, a par time on the stage, close targets, far targets, big targets, small targets, arrays of targets that require you to use your optic's features (either turrets and/or reticle), sometimes a dot drill, off hand shooting, a fun stage here and there...etc...and on top of all that....the wind will be the greatest equalizer.

    All of the stages had their teachable moments - I know I need to spend some more time shooting off hand and the location of my mag release needs fortified so I don't accidentally bump it and drop a mag again.

    Tom will use the comments from the first match and improve and keep at it --- I think it's going to be a ton of fun.
     

    poptart4YALL

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    Newbie questions here. What scopes are you all using for this type of match? What power? Are you using a BDC reticle? Are you having to making elevation adjustments for each shot? Are the stages set so that the targets are in the same range so adjustments don't need to be made in the middle of the stage?

    I saw some guys dailing elevation and others holding over. I, myself, was dailing the first target and holding over from there on the targets following it, no way I was going to trust the turrets on my Athlon Argos BTR 8-34x (already replaced). Personally I dislike BDC reticles, they hardly ever line up, much rather have a Christmas tree style and know my drops for each distance and hold on the Christmas tree. During the match I found I had way to much magnification. 8x on stage 1 wasn't fun target acquisition took forever.

    To echo what Irish said, something with 3x or 4x on the low side to at least 12x on the high side is ideal for this style of match. Not sure if FFP is actually going to help with this match. You're not ranging any thing, and since you're turning the magnification down to make quick shots it probably doesn't help that your reticle shrinks and get harder to pick up. Maybe illumination can help mitigate that issue, I know in stage 1 I would lose my reticle in the brush and then have to find that and target in under 8 seconds, didn't think about turning the illumination on for that.


     

    poptart4YALL

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    Sorry for kinda derailing this thread with this post, but I know people are out there that this will apply to.

    Just wanted to type this up real quick in case any one wants to come out to the competition, but are daunted by the equipment or worried they don't have the gear or rifle needed to compete.
    You honestly don't need much for this match below is a list of the bare minimum you need. This is really a lot of person opinion based on one match, things may change, so take it for what it is.

    .22lr Rifle
    Quality Scope
    Quality Scope Rings
    Enough mags to hold 20rds total
    Bipod
    Quality Ammo (last match was probably under 150rds)
    Dope and a Good Zero


    .22lr Rifle: There's no reason you can't shoot this match with an out of the box factory gun, cheapest options are probably a Ruger 10/22 ($200ish) or a Savage MkII ($230ish). I'd personally suggest the 10/22, there's a lot more aftermarket for it, and you can upgrade as you progress. The first gun I ever bought myself when I turned 18y/o was my 10/22, now the only factory parts on in are the receiver, trigger housing, and a modified factory bolt. I would probably suggest just going with the 10/22 carbine options, the Ruger target models aren't anything to write home about, so save your money, buy an aftermarket barrel down the road. If you have more to spend then the CZ 455 is the choice.


    Quality Scope: As far as scopes go, I have to admit I have spent lots and lots of hours trying to find the prefect under $300 .22lr rifle scope and I probably found it, had it, and sold it :( That was the Primary Arms 4-14x44mm FFP R-Grid Reticle scope, which I don't think they make any more with that reticle, just the mil dot reticle now, still in my opinion the best option.

    ******** It appears the BSA Tactical and Falcon Menance 4-14x scopes are also discounted and I've always felt those and the PA scope were all the same just re-branded and this kinda confirms its. So PA is probably just selling of the stock of the 4-14x mil-dot ones they have.*********

    The Vortex Diamondback Tactical looks like a good option but the fixed parallax kills it for me.

    Since I can't make a suggestion that's not being discontinued here's what to look for in a .22lr scope:

    Magnification Range: 3x or 4x on the low side, for offhand and faster paced quick shot stuff. Then I would say about 12x minimum on the high side. I did a lot of the distance stuff around 20x, probably could have gone lower. The high the mag you use the smaller your field of view gets so transitioning from target to target gets harder when you can't pick up the location of the next target.

    Adjustable Parallax: I can just flat out say you don't want fixed parallax on a .22lr, you'll be shooting closer than most other rifles you own and then things further away. So look for a scope with side adjustable parallax. You want it to AT LEAST go down to 50yds, the lower the better.

    Reticles:
    I dislike BDC reticles they hardly ever line up and if that do, at what DA, which lot of ammo, and list goes on, but if that's your cup of tea, cool, drink it.
    V-plex or simple, it'll work, can't knock those to much.
    Mil dot or Hash marked, definitely a plus for measuring you impacts and making corrections.
    Christmas tree or horus style reticles, are even more of a plus, you can do your hold overs and offsets for wind without touching your knobs, and remember this is a budget scope, the turrets or knobs are probably cheap and don't track well.

    Focal Plan: FFP or SFP. Probably won't matter to much for this match to be honest, but I'd suggest FFP if you can find it. Plus it will depends on the reticle you chose that'll influence your choice in focal plan. Kinda silly to get a measurement reticle that only works at 16x and you're using 12x for most of the time.

    MOA or MRAD: Your choice, just make sure your turrets/knobs match your reticle. Gone are the days of mil reticle and MOA knobs and doing math (1Mil=10.8/π MOA) in your head. I will say most people are probably going to use Mil, so if they're trying to help you their corrections will likely be in Mils. Kinda a know your audience thing.

    Manufacturer Reputation/ Reviews: Kinda common sense, research, read or watch reviews (lots of them), get to know how the community feels about the company your buying your scope from, buy from someone reputable. You'll eventually upgrade and want to recoup your investment on the first scope by selling it. So why buy something you know no one else wants to buy. You'll have no luck selling it. If you don't sell it you want something that'll last and a company that stand behind it.

    Quality Scope Rings: Not much to say here and again read reviews. Understand the height you need, cheek weld is important. My suggestion for cheap rings are the Vortex Tactical Rings or the Weaver Tactical Rings, they're both around $40 a set. I should probably mention here that you'll likely want a upgraded scope base. I know for a fact the factory ruger ones are trash. Plus with this match pushing .22lr to 300yds you'll want something with some MOA cant built in, so you have more elevation to work with on your scope. I'm using a DIP Inc 25MOA rail on my 10/22, not saying you need 25MOA but you'll need some, especially if you're using a 10/22, they have barrel droop that makes almost all of them shoot low, just the design of the gun.

    Enough mags to hold 20rds total: Most of the stages were limited to 15rds. If I remember correctly a few had 20rds limits. So you want enough mags to hold that. Four 5rd mags, two 10rd mags, one 10rd & two 5rd mags, doesn't matter, just changes how many mag changes you'll have make during the stage, and remember there are par times so mag changes are on the clock. Ideal set up is probably two 10rd mags and one 5rd mags, I don't trust myself down loading mags, I didn't pay attention in kindergarten so I count bad and that always burnt me when I shot IDPA before.

    Bipod: I follow the buy once, cry once mentality on most things. So that being said, just buy a Harris 6-9" Swivel Notched Leg bipod. You can get that around $100 on sale or on ebay from reputable sellers. I've never messed with the caldwell or blackhawk or other cheap stuff, the fact of the matter it's cheap and will likely break and you'll be out of the $40-60 you spend on it and spend $100 of the Harris you should have gotten and have a total invest of $140-60 instead of $100, so much for the $40-60 saving you got buying cheap.

    Quality Ammo: I used CCI Standard Velocity last match and that worked fine. If price or availability is a problem I'd start with CCI SV for sure. But rimfire is kinda weird you'll just have to find what your gun likes and groups well. Just buy quality ammo. Couple company's to look at CCI, SK, Wolf, Aguila, RWS, Eley, Lapua. Just depends what you want to spend, what cycles and groups well with your rifle. Stay away from that bucket-of-ammo stuff you grab at walmart, like golden bullets, thunderbolt, federal auto"match", etc.

    Dope and a Good Zero: Get a good zero, like a really really good zero. I think the consensus for a zero is 50yds. Just remember all your corrections are going to be made off of that. I like to mark my scope and count the click for the bottom up to my zero and write that down. You'll likely not have a zero stop on a cheaper scope so this helps to make sure you don't get lost in rotations, if you do crank it all the way down and count clicks back to zero. You'll also want to get some dope for the ammo your picked. Having dope for this match is a key. The first match I didn't have a good zero or dope and that wasn't fun. Zero was off, so all my corrections were off, and my dope was off some my corrections from my incorrect zero were even further off. Honestly the guys that rocked the shit out of the long distance stages were the ones spin kestrels around getting environmental data and plugging it into Applied Ballistics. Not saying you need to go out and buy a Kestrel 5700 Elite with link to be good here. But simply knowing what your gun and ammo does at distance is going to help. I highly suggest looking at http://jbmballistics.com/ or something similar and plug some info in and making dope cards and what not, it'll get you in the ballpark. I was sorta in the ballpark with my bad zero and bad dope and manged do alright, so don't get discouraged.


    Bonus item to have: Rear Bag- These are not only helpful only with the prone shots but on the barricades as well. You just throw it on the barricade and it provides a more stable platform for shooting without you foreend trying to roll and what not. You can make your own if you're on a budget, lots of threads on doing that. I use a Tab Gear (https://www.triadtactical.com/TAB-Rear-Bag.html) rear bag and love it. The loops are helpful to slip over the barrel and keep it in place. Lots of guys are going to be using pillows, you don't need that to start with.



    Anyways mostly just my opinion on things based on just the first match, take everything with a grain of salt, but it's not going to take a lot to get start in these matches. I really hope these matches start to get more popular and bring in more shooters and new shooters. I have no doubts that everyone at the match would help out a new shooter and offer them advice and gear. So, seriously, do not hesitate sign up for these matches.
     
    Last edited:

    Afkirby

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    For anyone that is hesitant to shoot for whatever reason, just do it. Grab your rifle, get a good zero, play around with a ballistic calculator to get an idea of what your drop is going to be and come shoot the match. The above post pretty much lays out the minimum gear that you'd need to shoot an stay competitive. The guys on my squad were really great to shoot with, everyone was more than happy to give any tips or suggestions of how to shoot tackle the various stages. I went it feeling that my weight was going to hold me back, but I didn't feel that was much of an issue at all.

    -Kirby
     

    JG26_Irish

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    Poptart - great advice. I agree.



    22lr Rifle
    Quality Scope
    Quality Scope Rings
    Enough mags to hold 20rds total
    Bipod
    Quality Ammo (last match was probably under 150rds)
    Dope and a Good Zero


    Of all these items, the good Dope is so important on a long distance 22. I had spent days testing and retesting at each distance from 50y out to 300y with my chosen ammo. Even though I had ballistic data on my ammo, the actual dope was significantly off from the chart in reality using my rifle. The drop was much more and it changes with elevation, temperature and DA. I got to the range a couple days early and arrived about 4pm to reseason my bbl and see how the location compared to my home range. I found that the elevation and temps were higher which resulting in a click or two variance in some of my dope at the various ranges. The range closed and I had to leave before I had time to check the longer distances but I had enough data to enter it into my Lapua Ballistic program on my iPad and tweak the dope for the Peacemaker range. This probably only mattered on the long shot stages but I was able to shoot with confidence. When I missed a shot it was on me, not my ammo or my data. I redid my dope chart just for this range and that was all I needed. I had solid data for 50, 100, 150, 200, 225, 250, and 300y. I was able to interpolate for those distances in between the ones on my chart. I did not bother to drag out the iPad even once. Afterall, you are only going to be within the band of one click anyway which was 1/4 MOA on my scope. So while it is more accurate to calculate the drop with the program, in reality, the turrets were the limiting factor and the difference got lost in the noise. The only time I got surprise on the distance shots was the KYL stage when I failed to recognize that the wind had picked up a lot until I had fired off a few rds. No amount of dope will compensate for that. I used the turrets for most elevation changes and a hold over for the wind since it was varying anyways. While I lacked a MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL scope, I am pretty good at math and was not handicapped at all by that. I only used hold over on the shots out past 250y so it did not come into play much and I had my dope in both MOA and MILS anyway. Just having two 10rd mags is going to help me a ton more than anything else I can do.

    A good rifle choice is one that shoots well, is reliable and common enough to have high cap mags available and other upgrade accessories such as the 25 MOA Dip-Rail mentioned above. That was a big help to me. That rules out most of the older classics like the Mod 52's or the Remington 541's. Rules out all of the single shot tgt models unless you a a masochist, lol. A proper custom ARA sporter rifle would be a good choice if the bench rest stock was replaced with a nice tactical stock. It would be heavy but that would be OK. A Cooper or Anschutz MPR are two more high end sporters that would be fun to put thru their paces at an event like this. Still, for less money you could do a CZ with a Lilja BBL and be right there. But, keep in mind, the accuracy potential of the rifle/scope/ammo combo are but one of the variables you face. You really did not need to be able to shoot under 1/2 MOA from a bench at 50y to be competitive. It helps but once you toss in wind, less than stable off-hand shooting positions, and movement and time factors that impact breathing and mental stress, you find out quickly that even with any old rifle, the real limiting factor is going to be YOU. So, as previously stated, dig around in the safe and pull out any old 22 repeater, get some extra mags, mount a moderately priced scope in the 3-12x or 4-18x range on it and spend the time to find out which ammo it likes. After that all you gotta do is practice. This kind of match will make you a better shooter cause the course designers are purposely putting you into varying conditions, distances and challenges that test many different aspects of your shooting skill. Fun.

    Irish





     

    redneckbmxer24

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    Does anyone have a good solution for mag pouches? The HSGI pistol tacos would probably work well enough for longer double stack mags, but I'm not finding anything that looks like they'd work well for the single stack metal 10 rounders. I'm running the Anschutz mags which are pretty thin and not very long. CZ shooters are probably going to run into the same issue when finding mag pouches.

    I've been screwed by using pants pockets when doing positional stuff and not being able to get to or in the pocket, and with the dust at PNTC and the lubricant on most of the 22 match ammo I don't think staging extra mags on the ground is a good idea.

    If there's enough interested I could see about getting a run of kydex double mag holsters made. Would probably only be for Anschutz and CZ mags though since Anschutz is what I use and CZ is probably the next most common. Could do others potentially if there was enough interest and someone sent in a couple mags for molds and testing.
     

    Afkirby

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    I've seen people take centerfire cartridge loops and pick out the center stitches to make them double wide to accomadate a single stack rimfire mag. Also triad makes a modular stock pack that you can get rimfire magazine holder adapters for.

    Kirby
     

    cwinston

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    Newbie questions here. What scopes are you all using for this type of match? What power? Are you using a BDC reticle? Are you having to making elevation adjustments for each shot? Are the stages set so that the targets are in the same range so adjustments don't need to be made in the middle of the stage?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jim Finley

    I was using a Vortex Viper PST 4-16 SFP in 25 MOA rings. Some stages I used hold overs, others I dialed. Next time I will think a little more about stage strategy. I know I could have done better because there were multiple stages where I ended up with 2 - 3 rounds still in the mags. With just a tiny amount of planning I would have gotten those rounds off and significantly improved my results.
     

    Topstrap

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    Got a question, I've RO'd at most of Rayner's Sniper Matches since he started them and shot a couple when I could. Do your ROs and any of the competitors have previous knowledge and practice on the stages? Tom Rayner and whoever helps set up the stages if they shoot do not count their scores in the match. Any RO that wishes to shoot can do so the day before but they do not know anything about any of the stages before hand. Tom feels it wouldn't be fair for anyone to have an advantage especially on a match such as this. He won't even allow a time to check zero wind a cold bore shot is part of the match.

    Hope your matches do well, all my rimfires are set up for long-range matches but had planned to set up something more suited to your match but would like to know everyone will be on equal ground.

    Topstrap
     
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    thrusty

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    Got a question, I've RO'd at most of Rayner's Sniper Matches since he started them and shot a couple when I could. Do your ROs and any of the competitors have previous knowledge and practice on the stages? Tom Rayner and whoever helps set up the stages if they shoot do not count their scores in the match. Any RO that wishes to shoot can do so the day before but they do not know anything about any of the stages before hand. Tom feels it wouldn't be fair for anyone to have an advantage especially on a match such as this. He won't even allow a time to check zero wind a cold bore shot is part of the match.

    Hope your matches do well, all my rimfires are set up for long-range matches but had planned to set up something more suited to your match but would like to know everyone will be on equal ground.

    Topstrap

    First....I'm not the match director....so, my statement is only of personal and professional experience.

    Depends on your definition of "previous knowledge"...Peacemaker is a range open to the public and members - if someone drives by while we're setting up and watches....we don't chase them off the property. To my knowledge, no shooter or RO has ever practiced (shot) on a stage and then shot for score at Peacemaker - that would be unsportsmanlike and grounds for DQ (in my personal opinion) if caught doing so.

    For this particular match, RO's shooting for score did not have specific prior knowledge of stages and did not practice on the stages prior to the match. ROs either shoot the day before or they shoot while embedded with the shooters. Everyone shooting for score are on a level playing field as is always the case for the matches that are put on at Peacemaker.

    We rely heavily on RO's in order to accomplish matches and put on great events - without them, you guys wouldn't be shooting. They give up their free time in order to make matches happen and we do our best to take care of them.
     

    JG26_Irish

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    I've seen people take centerfire cartridge loops and pick out the center stitches to make them double wide to accomadate a single stack rimfire mag. Also triad makes a modular stock pack that you can get rimfire magazine holder adapters for.

    Kirby

    I used my pocket on the moving stages and just laid the extra mag up onto the barricades or my rucksack or the Log in the case of stage 8. This worked good enough for the event. However, going forward and never knowing where one might need to run n gun in a stage, having a slot or clip attached to the stock similar to biathlon rifles would be usable. I did see one shooter who had a strap on cheek piece on his rifle with slots for three mags on the opposite side. That is clean, secure and out of the way. Might be a little awkward but workable. It was a minor issue only as only one stage really called for movements and reloading on the clock. That was stage two. But it was also the stage worth the most points or one of the most. The other movement stage had a time break between each shot (stage 1) so, you did not need to reload on the fly. All the other reloads were from the same fixed shooting position so it was easy to stage the mags in a convenient location. Left side of the forearm for right handed shooters is a good location. A simple poly clip screwed into the stock is all you would need. Or maybe two if your mag capacity is small.

    Irish
     

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    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 3, 2009
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    East side of Ohio
    First....I'm not the match director....so, my statement is only of personal and professional experience.

    Depends on your definition of "previous knowledge"...Peacemaker is a range open to the public and members - if someone drives by while we're setting up and watches....we don't chase them off the property. To my knowledge, no shooter or RO has ever practiced (shot) on a stage and then shot for score at Peacemaker - that would be unsportsmanlike and grounds for DQ (in my personal opinion) if caught doing so.

    For this particular match, RO's shooting for score did not have specific prior knowledge of stages and did not practice on the stages prior to the match. ROs either shoot the day before or they shoot while embedded with the shooters. Everyone shooting for score are on a level playing field as is always the case for the matches that are put on at Peacemaker.

    We rely heavily on RO's in order to accomplish matches and put on great events - without them, you guys wouldn't be shooting. They give up their free time in order to make matches happen and we do our best to take care of them.

    That sounds good, sure others like to know this.

    Thanks

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