I haven't been studying rifles much the past few years so I'm way out of the loop. I'm signed up for an elk hunt next year in Montana, but I'm from the east coast. I was thinking about trying to build a 300 WM bolt gun, maybe in a chassis. I also thought about going with a 6.5 Creedmoor because that would make things a lot simpler but I am unsure if that is a wise choice out there. I would like to stay under 10 pounds all in. Is that possible? Bad idea? Looking for thoughts from the experts.
- Thread starter Skeld1
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Is this just an excuse to buy another bolt gun or do you need to buy specifically for this trip?
I would go with 300 prc over 300 win mag. the 300 prc is designed better for long heavy high BC bullets.
I really don't have anything that will work. I've done all my other hunting with 308 on the east coast. I usually carry a 16" DPMS G2 308.
A .308 is going to be just as effective as a 6.5 creedmoor on a elk. That shoulder plate is tough, and heavier bullets have better penetration at distance. So a magnum is probably the better way to go. It can be whatever. .300 wsm, any of the ultra mags, 7mms work good, .300 magnums if you don’t mind the recoil etc
However, if you have a light rifle in a magnum, it will be more uncomfortable if you’re not used to it…or if you’re a pussy. If you stick with the .308 you can always get closer…you don’t always need to take a ridge to ridge shot.
However, if you have a light rifle in a magnum, it will be more uncomfortable if you’re not used to it…or if you’re a pussy. If you stick with the .308 you can always get closer…you don’t always need to take a ridge to ridge shot.
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Talk to the guide. They might have requirements. I know the guide my FIL uses has rules.
Get a 300 win mag in a Tikka or Howa and call it good. Put a quality 2-10, 3-12, 4-16 nothing bigger and you'll want to keep it light so don't get a chassis. Don't buy a creedmoor to hunt elk with, if you have one already it will work but you're limited with shot placement and range. Any of the 30cal magnums are just fine for elk but the 300win is the most available for ammo.
300wm is good if you want to be able to walk into any store and find several ammo options. If you reload I’d choose 300prc or 7saum
my tikka t3x lite 300 wsm with a hellfire brake in a mesa precision altitude stock got me elk at 200 and 400 yds last fall. doesn't kick at all.
.308 will work fine.
.300 WM will work dandy too.
If you are shooting the shoulder plate, you are doing it wrong. Does nobody shoot their damn rifle anymore? anchoring is for pussies who either suck at shooting or are too much of a pussy to carry it up a hill another 100 yds cause it ran a bit after shot.
learn to shoot better or learn to sneak up on them better. your choice.
.300 WM will work dandy too.
If you are shooting the shoulder plate, you are doing it wrong. Does nobody shoot their damn rifle anymore? anchoring is for pussies who either suck at shooting or are too much of a pussy to carry it up a hill another 100 yds cause it ran a bit after shot.
learn to shoot better or learn to sneak up on them better. your choice.
6.5PRC is probably the best all-around hunting cartridge available right now.
Ask a bunch o dead Nazis hopped up on amphetamines....
Elk are still tougher, but the '06 can drop one just fine on it's 105th year!!!
I was gonna carry my Tikka .308 this year for rifle, but may tote an old '06 just for that post my friend!!!
they are doing it wrong but I rather some 6.5 creedmoor dick sucker actually kill the damn thing rather than do this:
300 win mag 200 eldx or 212 eldx will work great. If buying a factory rifle id say a bergara and just shoot alot. Be ready to shoot 500 yards on elk. But best thing is ask guide shot distance and cal restrictions. A big outfit in Colorado hates 7mms and wont allow them for elk. They love 30 cals. Just what they want for there hunters
My personal theory and worth what you paid:
You want to shoot bigger stuff or you want more effective killing, you get a bigger bore/bullet.
You want to shoot stuff farther away, you get a bigger case/more powder.
The differences between .308, .30-06 and .300 WM are in flexibility and effective range, not their ability to put down an animal.
The easy button: go to Seekins Precision, order a Havak PH2 in .300 and go pick an optic.
The hard, more expensive way: buy a custom action, order a barrel (cut with a decent reamer, not the SAAMI nonsense), order a Manners…wait…wait more…wait longer…hopefully put it together before the hunt.
You want to shoot bigger stuff or you want more effective killing, you get a bigger bore/bullet.
You want to shoot stuff farther away, you get a bigger case/more powder.
The differences between .308, .30-06 and .300 WM are in flexibility and effective range, not their ability to put down an animal.
The easy button: go to Seekins Precision, order a Havak PH2 in .300 and go pick an optic.
The hard, more expensive way: buy a custom action, order a barrel (cut with a decent reamer, not the SAAMI nonsense), order a Manners…wait…wait more…wait longer…hopefully put it together before the hunt.
Great argument for being competent first and bringing enough gun to account for human error.
Is this a once in a lifetime hunt/ use of the rifle? If you are an east coast hunter who hunts deer, pigs, and bears do you think you will use a 300wm again. I live on the east cost and got ride of my 300wm. Got a 30-06 I think I'll use as my big game rifle. It's 8 and 1/2 pounds and plan to put a light weight scope. Good for blinds and I'll tough it out for a hunt I'll have to walk around. Hopefully I'll get there someday. Maybe a 6.5prc, 308, 30-06, or 7mm mag might be a good choice. You can use it after this hunt. I have a friend who's been getting to hunt different places the last few years. He put down a cow elk and moose with a 7mm-08.
If your going to get to do these western hunts regularly and will be using a 300wm all the time then build/buy the rifle you want.
If your going to get to do these western hunts regularly and will be using a 300wm all the time then build/buy the rifle you want.
I built a 300wm for a similar hunt. I used the Chris Kyle reamer designed to shoot 215 Bergers. Do some research on Long Range Only and you will see why. I am shooting the 215 berger at right at 3100 FPS in Alabama. It’s a hammer on both ends. LOL
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6.5 Creedmore is plenty of gun for Elk, and penetrates better than 308. Bringing more gun can't make up for bad shot placement. Put one through the lungs or heart, they die.
Penetration is a function of bullet construction, momentum and sectional density - stating the 6.5 penetrates better without context is a meaningless statement. If you’re choosing your bullet appropriately for the game, penetration is a non-issue among appropriate calibers - their ability to penetrate adequately is implied.
People hunt elk with .22 and .243 bored rifles to say nothing of pointy sticks of different varieties. Just because it will kill doesn’t mean it will do so optimally. Not everyone is @coldboremiracle - there are more than a few folks that make less than perfect shots on game. “If you shoot them badly, it doesn’t matter what you shoot them with.” There’s a difference between badly and imperfectly. Not every hit to the vitals is equally good and not every bullet/velocity combination is equally capable of rendering wide wounding.
Not that it applies here, but I’ve known/seen too many folks that see using the biggest caliber they can carry or the smallest as some sort of mark of manliness.
People hunt elk with .22 and .243 bored rifles to say nothing of pointy sticks of different varieties. Just because it will kill doesn’t mean it will do so optimally. Not everyone is @coldboremiracle - there are more than a few folks that make less than perfect shots on game. “If you shoot them badly, it doesn’t matter what you shoot them with.” There’s a difference between badly and imperfectly. Not every hit to the vitals is equally good and not every bullet/velocity combination is equally capable of rendering wide wounding.
Not that it applies here, but I’ve known/seen too many folks that see using the biggest caliber they can carry or the smallest as some sort of mark of manliness.
My preference is a 300wm shooting 190lrx, but there’s no secret to killing elk. Sling some hot steel through their vital zone and you will net a lot of good meat. Don’t take impractical shots and especially ones that you’re not comfortable with just because you have an opportunity at “maybe” killing an elk.
Generally flat and fast are good for point blank range shooting in the high country. With a 300winny or similar, you should easily have an affective range of 300 yards without dialing.
beyond your physical conditioning, make sure you have food, hydration, Binos and an LRF. Lots of stuff to prioritize before your weapon system.
Generally flat and fast are good for point blank range shooting in the high country. With a 300winny or similar, you should easily have an affective range of 300 yards without dialing.
beyond your physical conditioning, make sure you have food, hydration, Binos and an LRF. Lots of stuff to prioritize before your weapon system.
It all depends on your guide. With the right guide, you can harvest an elk with a bow.
Stating 6.5 penetrates better is a true statement in general. We are gun people here, I assumed people could infer the context of the statement. No a 90 amax isn't going to out penetrate 220 SMK. The quick and skinny. The heavy for caliber 6.5 bullets have higher sectional density and will be going faster from the same class of cartridge, they will penetrate deeper and have less recoil, same goes for 7mm.
A 140 class 6.5 is longer than most of the 180-200g .308 bullets. Most 180-190 class 7mm bullets are way longer than 140 6.5. Elk are kind of big and not really that hard to kill. I have seen lots of them killed with a 243, with one shot. Show up with something you can shoot that has at least .243 bullet diameter to be legal for CO big game hunting. Talk to your guide, some of them do have caliber requirements. There are some that would let hunt with a 308 Win and not a 6.5 Creed how ever stupid that may be. Get some steep angle shooting practice if you can.
I think you probably need a 338/378 Weatherby, or maybe a 458 Lott. Can you find a 600 Nitro Expresss double gun? Big money east coasters usually show up with some shit like they are going to Africa to shoot a little ole Elk.
I am just messing with you, but "you's guys" do have kind of a reputation.
A 140 class 6.5 is longer than most of the 180-200g .308 bullets. Most 180-190 class 7mm bullets are way longer than 140 6.5. Elk are kind of big and not really that hard to kill. I have seen lots of them killed with a 243, with one shot. Show up with something you can shoot that has at least .243 bullet diameter to be legal for CO big game hunting. Talk to your guide, some of them do have caliber requirements. There are some that would let hunt with a 308 Win and not a 6.5 Creed how ever stupid that may be. Get some steep angle shooting practice if you can.
I think you probably need a 338/378 Weatherby, or maybe a 458 Lott. Can you find a 600 Nitro Expresss double gun? Big money east coasters usually show up with some shit like they are going to Africa to shoot a little ole Elk.
I am just messing with you, but "you's guys" do have kind of a reputation. 
I've killed elk with everything from a bow, to 6.5mm to 35 cal. They will all kill elk. If I were going to be spending a lot of money on a hunt, and have it be a once in a lifetime deal, I would err on the side of a bigger caliber but less powder. Something like a 338-06 or so. If you really think you are going to reach out and kill an elk from a long distance, then I would go with a 300 mag of some sort. Just remember, for every ten people who shot an elk at 800 yards, one probably did. Most guides don't want to fuck their licenses by having people shooting bad shots at animals from long distances, so more than likely you they are going to try to get you pretty close in.
577 tyrannosaur.Stating 6.5 penetrates better is a true statement in general. We are gun people here, I assumed people could infer the context of the statement. No a 90 amax isn't going to out penetrate 220 SMK. The quick and skinny. The heavy for caliber 6.5 bullets have higher sectional density and will be going faster from the same class of cartridge, they will penetrate deeper and have less recoil, same goes for 7mm.
A 140 class 6.5 is longer than most of the 180-200g .308 bullets. Most 180-190 class 7mm bullets are way longer than 140 6.5. Elk are kind of big and not really that hard to kill. I have seen lots of them killed with a 243, with one shot. Show up with something you can shoot that has at least .243 bullet diameter to be legal for CO big game hunting. Talk to your guide, some of them do have caliber requirements. There are some that would let hunt with a 308 Win and not a 6.5 Creed how ever stupid that may be. Get some steep angle shooting practice if you can.
I think you probably need a 338/378 Weatherby, or maybe a 458 Lott. Can you find a 600 Nitro Expresss double gun? Big money east coasters usually show up with some shit like they are going to Africa to shoot a little ole Elk.
Placement is key. Bullet mass gives you extra room. Don't shoot farther than you are comfortable. I mean first shot impact on 10" plate comfortable. I think choid had it correct with big bullet less powder. Seems to be the consensus for African hunting, why would an elk be different. A light recoil heavy energy gun would be nice. Lots of elk have died from a 30-30. I would err on the side of more mustard, but not necessarily heavier recoil, you will likely be amped up enough as it is. Good luck.
Big deep penetrating solid bullets were made for dangerous game because you might have to shoot it head on in close quarters while under attack. The water buffalo and hippo are often in heavy cover. African game is physiologically different with more compact vital organs. They are simply put, tougher to kill than North Ameircan game. 30/06 is popular in some areas. One of my friends father, took his water buffalo with a 375 H&H and Zebra and bunch of smaller stuff with a 30/06.
Big slow moving bullets have shitty trajectories, short PBR zeros, and in general more disadvantages than advantages most anywhere you will be hunting Elk in CO.
en.wikipedia.org
Big slow moving bullets have shitty trajectories, short PBR zeros, and in general more disadvantages than advantages most anywhere you will be hunting Elk in CO.
W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia
It's a good thing he is hunting in MT, then.Big deep penetrating solid bullets were made for dangerous game because you might have to shoot it head on in close quarters while under attack. The water buffalo and hippo are often in heavy cover. African game is physiologically different with more compact vital organs. They are simply put, tougher to kill than North Ameircan game. 30/06 is popular in some areas. One of my friends father, took his water buffalo with a 375 H&H and Zebra and bunch of smaller stuff with a 30/06.
Big slow moving bullets have shitty trajectories, short PBR zeros, and in general more disadvantages than advantages most anywhere you will be hunting Elk in CO.
W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia
You can kill an elk a million different ways, and people do. Anecdotally, most guys I know here who depend on elk to feed their families, and who generally know fuck all about guns, use bigger bore cartridges with bonded hunting bullets. Most guys who are shooters and know a lot about guns use smaller cartridges and bullets that are made for target shooting. I don't know that one group does better than the other in the long run.
The way this thread is going, it already has descended into a dick comparison contest.
Just call the outfitter/guide or someone who has direct experience in the area you are hunting in and ask. Whatever you decide to go with, practice and get comfortable with it. The last thing you want happen is to hunt with a rifle/caliber you are not comfortable with, and have to spend the rest of the hunt wasting your guide/hunting buddy's time fixing a mistake that could have been prevented, making it suck for everyone.
Just call the outfitter/guide or someone who has direct experience in the area you are hunting in and ask. Whatever you decide to go with, practice and get comfortable with it. The last thing you want happen is to hunt with a rifle/caliber you are not comfortable with, and have to spend the rest of the hunt wasting your guide/hunting buddy's time fixing a mistake that could have been prevented, making it suck for everyone.
I’m a .30-06 guy, because ‘Merica.
Seriously though, it shoots as flat as my 6.5 Creed and hits harder when it gets where it’s going. The ammo is ubiquitous (when ammo is to be found), including cheap practice ammo. The cheapest of cheap 150 grain soft points will flatten about anything you can find out East without fuss. Heavy weights include the 180/200 AB, 200/220 Partition, 178/212 ELD-X, 195 ELD-M (or TMK) and 208 ELD-M. At least a couple of those are bound to strike your fancy as well as the target.
Anyway, it’s not sexy, new or cool, but the -06 will do the job with aplomb at less cost in ammo/recoil than a magnum if that matters to you.
Seriously though, it shoots as flat as my 6.5 Creed and hits harder when it gets where it’s going. The ammo is ubiquitous (when ammo is to be found), including cheap practice ammo. The cheapest of cheap 150 grain soft points will flatten about anything you can find out East without fuss. Heavy weights include the 180/200 AB, 200/220 Partition, 178/212 ELD-X, 195 ELD-M (or TMK) and 208 ELD-M. At least a couple of those are bound to strike your fancy as well as the target.
Anyway, it’s not sexy, new or cool, but the -06 will do the job with aplomb at less cost in ammo/recoil than a magnum if that matters to you.
I’m not aware the OP said anything about using a guide. I’m not sure why that’s been repeated multiple times. Not everyone is a faggot that needs someone to do our hunting for us…but then again, the OP is from the city. So maybe I missed that bit of information.
I've never been with an outfitter before, but my wife just turned 50 and asked for an outfitted hunt for her birthday. Being a good husband, I am trying to oblige, but since we have an in state phone number, nobody is calling back. It actually sounds like fun to me, but it could also be a huge pain in the ass.
It is pretty hard to scout from out of town...
I have been on a few guided hunts, allways on private ranches and only one was what i considered less than optimal.
The last one i whent on the guide was a retired Marine, solid dude no BS talk or blustering and very professional.
It was a slightly different hunt and a bit more difficult since my wife also wanted to go but they were very accommodating.
I assumed "signed up for a elk hunt" implied he was going on a guided hunt.
The OP is from Maine. There’s no OTC tags for Montana for non-residents. Signing up for a guide a year in advance seems shady with possibly no guarantee of a tag. However, to make your point work, signing up and paying some ranch owner thousands of dollars to hunt his private property is possible if the property boundary makes up an entire unit and has control over tags sold.
Again I made an assumption based on my experience. I could be wrong. I know of outfitters in other states where guides have access to tags that aren't available to John Q Public. No idea how Montana operates.
@Skeld1 , I will also recommend.30-06. It’s great for both factory ammo and, especially, hand loading
Most likely yes. One reason I'm a bit leery of buying a super lightweight 300 WM. I really don't like magnums that much and unlikely I will need it again anytime soon.
In my profile picture I'm skipping water on the Allagash, I'm not sure how you determined I'm "from the city". Maine definitely isn't the city. It is a guided hunt though, I don't consider myself a great hunter and I've never been out west at all, let alone have a clue how to hunt there...
Just make sure you get in better shape than you think you need to be. The elevation, even though it is not Colorado, can be rough on you lowlanders.
How bad is a brake in a hunting situation? As far as destruction of the ears.
You will be amped up, so you probably won't notice. The rest of the world will.
Maybe look at a 280 ackley improve light with a brake work great also. But what caliber can you re-use?
I hunt with brakes all the time no worries there wont even notice it. But love them can spot for your self
Haha my bad. It’s the first thing that comes to mind when I see people do guided hunts out west here, so thus the association.
And I know you don’t know how to hunt elk. That’s why people get guided hunts. Also for sure make sure you are in shape. If you are the amped adrenaline, miss the elk 15 times like the video guy..then you won’t notice shooting with the brake on. It WILL cause hearing damage still, brake or no brake shooting without ear pro.
