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ESAPI vs SAPI

usmcmidn1990

Private
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2009
0
0
31
I am having a lot of trouble with the ideas of the SAPI and ESAPI. My questions are...

Which is better?

Is the ESAPI stand alone? If so is it multi hit?

If the ESAPI is only level 4 compatable with vest why doesnt the military use the stronger level 4 stand alone SAPI (one would think that is stronger then if it is stand alone)? If it is compatable with the vest then is it a level 3+ stand alone plate?

If they are both stand alone which is overall better and can take the most punishment?

this cite says the ESAPI plate is stand alone if it is not why does it say this? http://www.tgfaust.com/plate.htm

and is this a SAPI plate or an ESAPI plate? http://www.falcontactical.net/blbaceplle4s.html

feel free to add any other tidbits!
 

usmcmidn1990

Private
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2009
0
0
31
ESAPI vs SAPI

I am having a lot of trouble with the ideas of the SAPI and ESAPI. My questions are...

Which is better?

Is the ESAPI stand alone? If so is it multi hit?

If the ESAPI is only level 4 compatable with vest why doesnt the military use the stronger level 4 stand alone SAPI (one would think that is stronger then if it is stand alone)? If it is compatable with the vest then is it a level 3+ stand alone plate?

If they are both stand alone which is overall better and can take the most punishment?

this cite says the ESAPI plate is stand alone if it is not why does it say this? http://www.tgfaust.com/plate.htm

and is this a SAPI plate or an ESAPI plate? http://www.falcontactical.net/blbaceplle4s.html

feel free to add any other tidbits!
 

DerHossMeister

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 6, 2006
4
0
Central FL
Re: ESAPI vs SAPI HELP

SAPI or Small Arms Protective Insert was the Army's first standard for bullet resistant inserts designed to be used in conjunction with a soft kevlar vest.

ESAPI or Enhanced Small Arms Protective Insert is the current generation of bullet resistant inserts, geared towards warding off armor piercing rounds.

Both SAPI and ESAPI are "in-conjunction with" designs. Either of which may or may not be "multi-hit" capable. It depends on the manufacturer of the plate.
 

DerHossMeister

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 6, 2006
4
0
Central FL
Re: ESAPI vs SAPI HELP

To continue this further, lets look at the NIJ standards for Bullet Resistant body armor.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2. NIJ BODY ARMOR CLASSIFICATION
Personal body armor covered by this standard is classified into five types (IIA, II, IIIA,
III, IV) by level of ballistic performance. In addition, a special test class is defined to allow
armor to be validated against threats that may not be covered by the five standard classes.
The classification of an armor panel that provides two or more levels of NIJ ballistic
protection at different locations on the ballistic panel shall be that of the minimum ballistic
protection provided at any location on the panel.

2.1 Type IIA (9 mm; .40 S&W)
Type IIA armor that is new and unworn shall be tested with 9 mm Full Metal Jacketed
Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets with a specified mass of 8.0 g (124 gr) and a velocity of 373 m/s
± 9.1 m/s (1225 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and with .40 S&W Full Metal Jacketed (FMJ) bullets with a
specified mass of 11.7 g (180 gr) and a velocity of 352 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1155 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). Type IIA armor that has been conditioned shall be tested with 9 mm FMJ RN bullets with
a specified mass of 8.0 g (124 gr) and a velocity of 355 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1165 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and
with .40 S&W FMJ bullets with a specified mass of 11.7 g (180 gr) and a velocity of 325 m/s ±
9.1 m/s (1065 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).

2.2 Type II (9 mm; .357 Magnum)
Type II armor that is new and unworn shall be tested with 9 mm FMJ RN bullets with a
specified mass of 8.0 g (124 gr) and a velocity of 398 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1305 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and with
.357 Magnum Jacketed Soft Point (JSP) bullets with a specified mass of 10.2 g (158 gr) and a
velocity of 436 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1430 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).
Type II armor that has been conditioned shall be tested with 9 mm FMJ RN bullets with a
specified mass of 8.0 g (124 gr) and a velocity of 379 m/s ±9.1 m/s (1245 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and with
.357 Magnum JSP bullets with a specified mass of 10.2 g (158 gr) and a velocity of 408 m/s ±9.1
m/s (1340 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).

2.3 Type IIIA (.357 SIG; .44 Magnum)
Type IIIA armor that is new and unworn shall be tested with .357 SIG FMJ Flat Nose
(FN) bullets with a specified mass of 8.1 g (125 gr) and a velocity of 448 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1470
ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and with .44 Magnum Semi Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullets with a specified
mass of 15.6 g (240 gr) and a velocity of 436 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1430 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).
Type IIIA armor that has been conditioned shall be tested with .357 SIG FMJ FN bullets
with a specified mass of 8.1 g (125 gr) and a velocity of 430 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1410 ft/s ± 30 ft/s)
and with .44 Magnum SJHP bullets with a specified mass of 15.6 g (240 gr) and a velocity of
408 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1340 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).

2.4 Type III (Rifles)
Type III hard armor or plate inserts shall be tested in a conditioned state with 7.62 mm
FMJ, steel jacketed bullets (U.S. Military designation M80) with a specified mass of 9.6 g (147
gr) and a velocity of 847 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2780 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).
Type III flexible armor shall be tested in both the “as new” state and the conditioned state
with 7.62 mm FMJ, steel jacketed bullets (U.S. Military designation M80) with a specified mass
of 9.6 g (147 gr) and a velocity of 847 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2780 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).
For a Type III hard armor or plate insert that will be tested as an in conjunction design,
the flexible armor shall be tested in accordance with this standard and found compliant as a
stand-alone armor at its specified threat level. The combination of the flexible armor and hard
armor/plate shall then be tested as a system and found to provide protection at the system’s
specified threat level. NIJ-approved hard armors and plate inserts must be clearly labeled as
providing ballistic protection only when worn in conjunction with the NIJ-approved flexible
armor system with which they were tested.

2.5 Type IV (Armor Piercing Rifle)
Type IV hard armor or plate inserts shall be tested in a conditioned state with .30 caliber
armor piercing (AP) bullets (U.S. Military designation M2 AP) with a specified mass of 10.8 g
(166 gr) and a velocity of 878 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2880 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).
Type IV flexible armor shall be tested in both the “as new” state and the conditioned state
with .30 caliber AP bullets (U.S. Military designation M2 AP) with a specified mass of 10.8 g
(166 gr) and a velocity of 878 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2880 ft/s ± 30 ft/s).
For a Type IV hard armor or plate insert that will be tested as an in conjunction design,
the flexible armor shall be tested in accordance with this standard and found compliant as a
stand-alone armor at its specified threat level. The combination of the flexible armor and hard
armor/plate shall then be tested as a system and found to provide protection at the system’s
specified threat level. NIJ-approved hard armors and plate inserts must be clearly labeled as
providing ballistic protection only when worn in conjunction with the NIJ-approved flexible
armor system with which they were tested.</div></div>
 

christian77

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Re: ESAPI vs SAPI

You're probably on the wrong forum...lightfighter.net has an entire section dedicated to the below.

nonamen.jpg
 

usmcmidn1990

Private
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2009
0
0
31
ESAPI and XSAPI difference

What is the difference?

I understand XSAPI is lighter but is that it? Are they stronger, are they level 4 stand alone or will they be better then level 4 stand alone etc...?
 

deadly0311

Tacticool Ninja
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 2, 2009
4,661
208
Birmingham, AL
Re: ESAPI and XSAPI difference

listen man you have posted the same question now numerous times...google search is your friend
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: ESAPI and XSAPI difference

Man, I dont mean to be harsh, but, have you ever had a friend that shared an idea with you, and you immediately thought, "That is the dumbest fucking idea Ive ever heard?"

That is the exact thought that ran through about 50 guy's heads when we read your post about buying your own armor for deployment.

Spend that money on wetwipes and Copenhagen. Youll be thankful that you did.
 

usmcmidn1990

Private
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2009
0
0
31
Re: ESAPI and XSAPI difference

well seeing as you cant buy XSAPI im just curious about what they are... I just dont get the idea of posting questions when everyone just shoots it down i mean excuse me for being frank but I honestly just get the impression that you guys are washed up former military that have nothing better to do rather to just fuck with a guy who would like to know some answers I never said i was going to buy them and from a future post i realize buying it is worthless because modernizing armor and by the time I buy it and go into the field this XSAPI which may be better will be fielded, but seriously you guys strike me as kinds who are fucking living in the past, im sorry for you guys (I do realize that some ppl want to help people out (the majority do not)) so to all you washed up dicks out there go fuck yourself! Im not going to waste time even asking military questions on a military based website and like some of you posted b4 i guess im going to worry about future pft scores and doing my studies once again fuck off good luck on ur little internet chats and watching TV shows of what you may or may not have used to be PEACE former military geek asses!!!!!
smile.gif
(that smiley face was just for u geeks) now vent off on me and explain how im nothing and u no it all.....cant wait to read the posts....
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: ESAPI and XSAPI difference

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midn x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well seeing as you cant buy XSAPI</div></div>

Uh-huh, heroin is illegal too. Not very hard to buy though, is it?

If youre asking an honest question, then fine, so be it. But, this is coming right on the heels of you admitting that you were planning on buying your own armor for deployment, so, you will understand my concern that you are still set on making that mistake. Now, if you honestly have gotten that thought out of your head, then I apologize for jumping your ass.
 

deadly0311

Tacticool Ninja
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 2, 2009
4,661
208
Birmingham, AL
Re: ESAPI and XSAPI difference

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you still under the dumb fucking idea that you know more than Uncle Sam (and their MILLIONS of dollars in scientific testing) and that youre going to buy your own armor?

Save everyone the time and shoot yourself in the foot so you dont have to deploy. Youre too goddamned dumb to be in a combat zone. </div></div>

+1
 

Wil

PRE
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 16, 2006
1,364
4
TX (Austin area)
www.pre-us.com
Re: ESAPI and XSAPI difference

With that attitude you are going to make friends fast in my beloved Corps son....

True leaders LEARN from others, seek their advice, and extract teh useful and toss the rest....

You come here seeking knowledge, and when the answers you receive don't align with your already formed opinion you get pissy...

Officers are supposed to set the example, encourage others to surpass expectations, and LEAD BY EXAMPLE...

Son, you're doing none of the above.

Roll into a combat zone with that attitude and you will find yourself in a shit situation...alone...

My Corps has a way of dealing with these types of things...

What's up blue-on-blue <grin>
 

500grains

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 20, 2008
400
283
dirt nap
Re: ESAPI and XSAPI difference

Is this guy for real? He sounds like a 7th grader whose girlfriend just dropped him for his best friend.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midn x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well seeing as you cant buy XSAPI im just curious about what they are... I just dont get the idea of posting questions when everyone just shoots it down i mean excuse me for being frank but I honestly just get the impression that you guys are washed up former military that have nothing better to do rather to just fuck with a guy who would like to know some answers I never said i was going to buy them and from a future post i realize buying it is worthless because modernizing armor and by the time I buy it and go into the field this XSAPI which may be better will be fielded, but seriously you guys strike me as kinds who are fucking living in the past, im sorry for you guys (I do realize that some ppl want to help people out (the majority do not)) so to all you washed up dicks out there go fuck yourself! Im not going to waste time even asking military questions on a military based website and like some of you posted b4 i guess im going to worry about future pft scores and doing my studies once again fuck off good luck on ur little internet chats and watching TV shows of what you may or may not have used to be PEACE former military geek asses!!!!!
smile.gif
(that smiley face was just for u geeks) now vent off on me and explain how im nothing and u no it all.....cant wait to read the posts.... </div></div>