Europeans- what's up with this?

[Threadcutter308]

Currently living in VS, in our lovely mountains. I can smell the snow since two days, winter is coming .

I have had many fantastic experiences in Switzerland. And, numerous other European Countries. Looking forward to being in Switzerland again, Saas Fee in particular.

 

[vinniedelpino]

I hang out with a bunch of Open Source FlightSim folks from all over the world and have run a multiplayer flight virtually every Saturday night for over ten years. Our forum is based in the UK and every Saturday evening for over a decade we have coordinated with virtual pilots from literally all over the world. I work at developing virtual aircraft with these folks and we have become fast friends, best friends over the years. And while working together and drinking and playing online together we have shared information about all manner of things. I know their families better than some of my siblings....we talk about food and medical care. We talk about cars and politics, fuel and social norms. We talk about everything and share all manner of personal information as we are all friends.

I am constantly amazed at the bullshit Americans believe about the EU and UK and other parts of the world including Canada and South American countries.

Most of them understand American politics better than most Americans. Frankly I prefer the company and exchange of information and ideas with EU and UK folks much better than Americans. Folks abroad seem to want to discover and compare/learn/exchange. People in America want to tell/dominate/exploit and control. Americans have to be right or they are pissed. Most folks I know from other places are much happier on average with much less than most Americans.

Not impressed with most Americans I meet online - extremely impressed with Scots, English, French, German, Italian, Canadian, Irish, and even folks from South America that I meet and coordinate with. I think 80 years ago America was all that and a bag of chips and then we started to get.....stupid, rude, and aggressive like the whole world belongs to US. Which is why The Rest of The World is so interested in what happens here. We possess the largest military and largest nuclear force in the world and are the only ones to have used nuclear weapons in aggression. I think the rest of the civilized world has done well to worry about US fucking it all up when we all think we already own it all and run everyone else's destiny. They think we are nuts.

Not sure we aren't.

VooDoo

I don’t think your flight sim buddies are an accurate sample of Europe as a whole.

They’re just as retarded as Americans. I promise.

They can’t count change either, and with VAT built into prices they deal with more even numbers.

 

[pmclaine]

I don’t think your flight sim buddies are an accurate sample of Europe as a whole.

They’re just as retarded as Americans. I promise.

They can’t count change either, and with VAT built into prices they deal with more even numbers.

Fucking accountants expecting everyone else to be able to count like them.,,,,,remember you guys are cuck dorks in every movie ever made.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Fucking accountants expecting everyone else to be able to count like them.,,,,,remember you guys are cuck dorks in every movie ever made.

Funny you say that. I’m pretty much Ben Affleck in The Accountant (2016.). The only notable difference is that I don’t beat the shit out of my legs and it wouldn’t have taken me so long to bag Anna Kendrick.

Ive seen that movie 213.63 times.

 

[Advokaten]

I'm in Munich right now and I've spent the last week and change in London and Athens. I've been sporting flannel and a Coleman's Creek hat most of the trip. I suspect that might be part of the reason why I've been asked half a dozen times whether or not I voted for Trump. When I confirm the reaction is never positive. I've never asked any foreigners in the US who they voted for in their home country, as frankly, I don't give a shit. It seems like everyone wants to talk about American politics. Waiters, shop owners, cabbies etc

First the questions arise from the fact that in most free and democratic European nations, the talking about politics and votes are a great deal of the interaction with others,

it is considered a sign of being a decent person to be able to talk about politics without acting out or being an arse.

Second, I for one and many more are really curious as to how one would vote for Trump, even if I disregard 2/3 of what the media portraits, the man is an utter tool and then some, I might be wrong, but I consider him to be the biggest part of your young nations break down. ( Trump is a lot like italian Berlusconi, a lot like the french Le Pen, or his swedish carbon copy and I think the term is fanboy?! Åkesson)
I only thougth that is was in some south american, penny nation that the congress is to be raided, regardless of who did it and why, I thought things like was a thing of the past.

So with that in mind, yes most europeans have a hard time understanding, a vote for Trump and also the "battle" that assumed afterwards. Remember in most Euroepan media he has been presented as a complete tool, and a person that has no moral standing what so ever.

Since you seem to have an issue with how most react to a Trump vote, well above are a few ideas as to why.

I for one realise, now more than ever, that the US had bigger issues prior to the Trump era began, than I knew of and he was not the sole reason they began, still,there is a lot to be said about what he did internationaly and not a lot of it was very good.

From an americans standpoint I can understand the thought and idea of withdrawing from international treaties and also the "world cop role"
as a good thing, I guess it is taxing at worst and not really rewarding at best, still no nation today can isolate it self from the rest of world, well ok, yes you can, but that wil not be for the best of the citicens, but for the leaders.

The world needs the US as a stable, viable and strong nation, showing what can be done, freedom and all, Europe need US as a partner and a detterent, from the russian, chinese aggressions, and I do belive that a bit of decency and more than a handful of understanding of each other goes an long way of maintaining a relationship.

A bit of understanding goes a long way, a bit of leniency takes you still a bit further, and acceptance will allow for the rest.

I guess, knowing from experience that there will be a lot of degrading comments about this post, well so be it. /C

 

[37L1]

First the questions arise from the fact that in most free and democratic European nations, the talking about politics and votes are a great deal of the interaction with others,

it is considered a sign of being a decent person to be able to talk about politics without acting out or being an arse.

Second, I for one and many more are really curious as to how one would vote for Trump, even if I disregard 2/3 of what the media portraits, the man is an utter tool and then some, I might be wrong, but I consider him to be the biggest part of your young nations break down. ( Trump is a lot like italian Berlusconi, a lot like the french Le Pen, or his swedish carbon copy and I think the term is fanboy?! Åkesson)
I only thougth that is was in some south american, penny nation that the congress is to be raided, regardless of who did it and why, I thought things like was a thing of the past.

So with that in mind, yes most europeans have a hard time understanding, a vote for Trump and also the "battle" that assumed afterwards. Remember in most Euroepan media he has been presented as a complete tool, and a person that has no moral standing what so ever.

Since you seem to have an issue with how most react to a Trump vote, well above are a few ideas as to why.

I for one realise, now more than ever, that the US had bigger issues prior to the Trump era began, than I knew of and he was not the sole reason they began, still,there is a lot to be said about what he did internationaly and not a lot of it was very good.

From an americans standpoint I can understand the thought and idea of withdrawing from international treaties and also the "world cop role"
as a good thing, I guess it is taxing at worst and not really rewarding at best, still no nation today can isolate it self from the rest of world, well ok, yes you can, but that wil not be for the best of the citicens, but for the leaders.

The world needs the US as a stable, viable and strong nation, showing what can be done, freedom and all, Europe need US as a partner and a detterent, from the russian, chinese aggressions, and I do belive that a bit of decency and more than a handful of understanding of each other goes an long way of maintaining a relationship.

A bit of understanding goes a long way, a bit of leniency takes you still a bit further, and acceptance will allow for the rest.

I guess, knowing from experience that there will be a lot of degrading comments about this post, well so be it. /C

That's the OP's post you quoted not my response.

However, I will take issue with some of what you posted.

You think "Orange Man Bad" and is a tool. Well, now we have Biden and Son, corrupt to the core, a gaff machine, who shows an inability to hold press conferences or even exit a stage without the Easter Bunny intervening. President Poop in the Pants gets a pass from y'all because Orange Man Bad? Or because he pushes socialist policies which your area of the world seems so enamored with? I won't even get into details about Hunter's business relations with his Father, or his coke fueled relations with his niece, all documented some with video and totally ignored by any media or people who know better. Big GuyBiden's relations with his daughter. It's disgusting but Orange Man Bad.

It is to laugh in your brain washed faces.

GFY.

 

[eflyguy]

I call BS on this thread because a "SnipersHide"er:
1) Will never be caught in a blue state, much less travel outside of the US.
2) Will never be caught in a foreign nation during US election week.
3) Will never tour a castle.
4) Will never sport a flannel and Coleman's Creek cap that basically "unhides" oneself, especially in Europe.
5) Will never waste money on an European trip, but will instead buy more ammo.

Jokes aside, who cares what they ask and how they feel.
Be proud of your decisions, your country and where you come from.

I've lived over a decade each on three continents, visited over a dozen nations and every US State except the Dakotas and Alaska, on my last trip to the UK my daughter and I visited 8 castles in Wales, along with Stonehenge, Bath, and the Tower of London. I've driven across France and Germany and Italy and the eastern coast of Australia.

I guess I don't qualify as a SH'er.. I don't wear hats.

 

[vinniedelpino]

First the questions arise from the fact that in most free and democratic European nations, the talking about politics and votes are a great deal of the interaction with others,

it is considered a sign of being a decent person to be able to talk about politics without acting out or being an arse.

Second, I for one and many more are really curious as to how one would vote for Trump, even if I disregard 2/3 of what the media portraits, the man is an utter tool and then some, I might be wrong, but I consider him to be the biggest part of your young nations break down. ( Trump is a lot like italian Berlusconi, a lot like the french Le Pen, or his swedish carbon copy and I think the term is fanboy?! Åkesson)
I only thougth that is was in some south american, penny nation that the congress is to be raided, regardless of who did it and why, I thought things like was a thing of the past.

So with that in mind, yes most europeans have a hard time understanding, a vote for Trump and also the "battle" that assumed afterwards. Remember in most Euroepan media he has been presented as a complete tool, and a person that has no moral standing what so ever.

Since you seem to have an issue with how most react to a Trump vote, well above are a few ideas as to why.

I for one realise, now more than ever, that the US had bigger issues prior to the Trump era began, than I knew of and he was not the sole reason they began, still,there is a lot to be said about what he did internationaly and not a lot of it was very good.

From an americans standpoint I can understand the thought and idea of withdrawing from international treaties and also the "world cop role"
as a good thing, I guess it is taxing at worst and not really rewarding at best, still no nation today can isolate it self from the rest of world, well ok, yes you can, but that wil not be for the best of the citicens, but for the leaders.

The world needs the US as a stable, viable and strong nation, showing what can be done, freedom and all, Europe need US as a partner and a detterent, from the russian, chinese aggressions, and I do belive that a bit of decency and more than a handful of understanding of each other goes an long way of maintaining a relationship.

A bit of understanding goes a long way, a bit of leniency takes you still a bit further, and acceptance will allow for the rest.

I guess, knowing from experience that there will be a lot of degrading comments about this post, well so be it. /C

I’ll play, and I’ll do my best not to make an arse of myself by being genuine with my response.

I cant speak for everyone, but here’s the cornerstone of my political ideology in the simplest of terms:

I just want to be left alone.

Whoever is more likely to leave me alone gets my vote. I don’t care if they’re mean, fat, gay, black, white or neon green. I don’t care if they’re a “tool” by European standards either.

Between income taxes, social security, sales tax, property taxes, Medicare, excise taxes etc. about 50% of my income is taken by the government. I’m tired of expensive social welfare programs that compound rather than fix problems. I’m tired of sending resources overseas while our debt burden skyrockets, especially when those resources include American lives. I’m tired of the complete lack of accountability associated with the way the government utilizes what I produce and the piss poor lack of transparency that comes with it. That’s not to say I’m selfish either. I’m quite generous both in regards to my time and charitable financial contributions.

I also value the bill of rights, free markets and personal responsibility. What’s not to understand?

 

[Advokaten]

That's the OP's post you quoted not my response.

However, I will take issue with some of what you posted.

You think "Orange Man Bad" and is a tool. Well, now we have Biden and Son, corrupt to the core, a gaff machine, who shows an inability to hold press conferences or even exit a stage without the Easter Bunny intervening. President Poop in the Pants gets a pass from y'all because Orange Man Bad? Or because he pushes socialist policies which your area of the world seems so enamored with? I won't even get into details about Hunter's business relations with his Father, or his coke fueled relations with his niece, all documented with video and totally ignored by any media or people who know better. Big GuyBiden's relations with his daughter. It's disgusting but Orange Man Bad.

It is to laugh in your brain washed faces.

GFY.

Sorry about not getting the quotes right,

So I guess that you are having two bad presidents in a row, is that correct. As for me being brainwashed, but not my face, well I really could not tell. (last time I had some ones brainmatter in my face, it was not mine, it belonged to a guy that was hit by a subway train, and that is a long time ago, I have washed since, I do promise) What I stated above was a few remarks of why and how the wonders of mr Trump are not quite regarded the same in Europe, I also stated that there is a need for the US as a nation to be a solid role model for the rest of the world, since America somehow has become the benchmark for a lot of good things and some not so.

If is any kind of conselation or comfort, most Europeans are also wondering why the US elected a man so old that he has forgotten about who of his friends that has passed, and so on, still I cannot quite understand how that would make Trump any better at being a president, it is not relevant. I do not belive that any one really wanted the Orange man or the other one either, and your reply seems to imply that.

Media being what they are is something that could be adressed and at least were I live, we have both PBS, public tv and private, multiple private channels, that all have different agendas.

Back to the question and start of the thread, I belive that most Europeans are more interested in US politics, more so than americans about european politics is that what happens in the states has a direct and often profound inpact here, the reverse is not the case for the most part.

As an example, the increase in US inflation has leveled out, the risk for even higher interest rates has lowered, that alone pushed our stock market to make an +2.00 ish result for that day, for me that is significant, ergo I am invested in the prosperity of the US economy.

 

[acudaowner]

you should have asked them if they like being free people why did they vote themselves to live under slavery in socialism that's why I voted for trump

 

[37L1]

Sorry about not getting the quotes right,

So I guess that you are having two bad presidents in a row, is that correct. As for me being brainwashed, but not my face, well I really could not tell. (last time I had some ones brainmatter in my face, it was not mine, it belonged to a guy that was hit by a subway train, and that is a long time ago, I have washed since, I do promise) What I stated above was a few remarks of why and how the wonders of mr Trump are not quite regarded the same in Europe, I also stated that there is a need for the US as a nation to be a solid role model for the rest of the world, since America somehow has become the benchmark for a lot of good things and some not so.

If is any kind of conselation or comfort, most Europeans are also wondering why the US elected a man so old that he has forgotten about who of his friends that has passed, and so on, still I cannot quite understand how that would make Trump any better at being a president, it is not relevant. I do not belive that any one really wanted the Orange man or the other one either, and your reply seems to imply that.

Media being what they are is something that could be adressed and at least were I live, we have both PBS, public tv and private, multiple private channels, that all have different agendas.

Back to the question and start of the thread, I belive that most Europeans are more interested in US politics, more so than americans about european politics is that what happens in the states has a direct and often profound inpact here, the reverse is not the case for the most part.

As an example, the increase in US inflation has leveled out, the risk for even higher interest rates has lowered, that alone pushed our stock market to make an +2.00 ish result for that day, for me that is significant, ergo I am invested in the prosperity of the US economy.

If you believe all of your last regarding the US economy, you should know that just one day's results is not something to hang your hat on because the rate of inflation may have "slowed" for now but the underlying causes have not changed. Inflation is still a factor and higher interest rates are still coming, the amount and how often is the question.

As far as relevancy, how was the economy under Trump? How was the US energy supply under Trump? How was the rate of inflation under Trump? But "Orange Man Bad" was a tool and did mean tweets. There is a lot to not like about Trump but FFS, look at what has happened after him. If nothing else, look how it impacts you. Like that war in Ukraine do ya? Have a nice Winter.

Here's a question for you: Why can't Europeans look after themselves and their own interests? Why, after over 75 years since WWII and the Marshall Plan are y'all so god damned dependent? You spend all your $ on socialist programs that you can only afford because the US provides that what should go towards your own military.

You are children who never move out of their Mother's basement and complain about her cooking, cleaning and meddling in your "life."

Your opinion doesn't matter until you decide to look after yourselves.

 

[Advokaten]

I’ll play, and I’ll do my best not to make an arse of myself by being genuine with my response.

I cant speak for everyone, but here’s the cornerstone of my political ideology in the simplest of terms:

I just want to be left alone.

Whoever is more likely to leave me alone gets my vote. I don’t care if they’re mean, fat, gay, black, white or neon green. I don’t care if they’re a “tool” by European standards either.

Between income taxes, social security, sales tax, property taxes, Medicare, excise taxes etc. about 50% of my income is taken by the government. I’m tired of expensive social welfare programs that compound rather than fix problems. I’m tired of sending resources overseas while our debt burden skyrockets, especially when those resources include American lives. I’m tired of the complete lack of accountability associated with the way the government utilizes what I produce and the piss poor lack of transparency that comes with it. That’s not to say I’m selfish either. I’m quite generous both in regards to my time and charitable financial contributions.

I also value the bill of rights, free markets and personal responsibility. What’s not to understand?

So this is not about you being in Munich, this is about you being fed up with your own government.
That is fine and so on.
The part of being left alone, is great and one that ought to be respected. I would not have asked you about how you voted and further more I really do not care, it´s really your thing.
However you asked, or rather as I see it complained a bit about why you were asked, I replied as to how I belive things are.

The making of the US and the very beginning of your great nation was all about rights, taxes ( not to taxed or at least have a say so about it) and the will to be free, and that is a very different starting point, a good one from were most nations in Europe started.
I am sorry that I implied that Trump is a tool, but that is how he has come across and acted as far as can be seen from here.

One thing that I might pick up a bit of, here, and there is a bit of recentment against europeans, and also now towards me, you asked about something and got a reply, one that did not landed smoothly.

I could sort of summarize things like this, since we ( Europe) are dependent on a US that is great, that is stable, that is part of a international trade, security, financial network, we, I would like for you to have a president that is not quite what you are having now, and not what you had, since they are both lacking in different ways.

 

[Advokaten]

If you believe all of your last regarding the US economy, you should know that just one day's results is not something to hang your hat on because the rate of inflation may have "slowed" for now but the underlying causes have not changed. Inflation is still a factor and higher interest rates are still coming, the amount and how often is the question.

As far as relevancy, how was the economy under Trump? How was the US energy supply under Trump? How was the rate of inflation under Trump? But "Orange Man Bad" was a tool and did mean tweets. There is a lot to not like about Trump but FFS, look at what has happened after him. If nothing else, look how it impacts you. Like that war in Ukraine do ya? Have a nice Winter.

Here's a question for you: Why can't Europeans look after themselves and their own interests? Why, after over 75 years since WWII and the Marshall Plan are y'all so god damned dependent? You spend all your $ on socialist programs that you can only afford because the US provides that what should go towards your own military.

You are children who never move out of their Mother's basement and complain about her cooking, cleaning and meddling in your "life."

Your opinion doesn't matter until you decide to look after yourselves.

There is so much to be said about what you have stated above here, however I do not have the time and or patience to reply in a manner that is proper,
still I am glad that you did decided to reply.

 

[37L1]

There is so much to be said about what you have stated above here, however I do not have the time and or patience to reply in a manner that is proper,
still I am glad that you did decided to reply.

I think that you have the same view as me, like the individual people but their politics suck.

Have a good day Advokaten. Maybe someday we'll meet and have a beer.

 

[vinniedelpino]

So this is not about you being in Munich, this is about you being fed up with your own government.
That is fine and so on.
The part of being left alone, is great and one that ought to be respected. I would not have asked you about how you voted and further more I really do not care, it´s really your thing.
However you asked, or rather as I see it complained a bit about why you were asked, I replied as to how I belive things are.

The making of the US and the very beginning of your great nation was all about rights, taxes ( not to taxed or at least have a say so about it) and the will to be free, and that is a very different starting point, a good one from were most nations in Europe started.
I am sorry that I implied that Trump is a tool, but that is how he has come across and acted as far as can be seen from here.

One thing that I might pick up a bit of, here, and there is a bit of recentment against europeans, and also now towards me, you asked about something and got a reply, one that did not landed smoothly.

I could sort of summarize things like this, since we ( Europe) are dependent on a US that is great, that is stable, that is part of a international trade, security, financial network, we, I would like for you to have a president that is not quite what you are having now, and not what you had, since they are both lacking in different ways.

It's not just Munich. Of the last six or so countries I've visited in the last five years only the Brits didn't bring up politics.

You mentioned that you didn't understand how people could vote for Trump, so I explained my reasoning. I don't resent Europeans at all, and I certainly don't resent you. Nothing but love from me, bruv.

If you think Trump is a tool that's nothing to apologize over either. I'm not easily offended and that's nothing to get offended over. My OP was merely an observation that Europe, as a whole, is far more invested in US politics and far more prone to groupthink than the US. I found that both amazing and terrifying given our current state of affairs.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Don’t try to understand Europe. I’ve been trapped here for almost three years. As an American, there’s zero reason to try. It’s essentially a white Middle East that thinks it is developed.

If the US left this continent, it would be right back to being at war within a year. That said, we should leave NATO and let them deal with the consequences of their actions.

Jab… exploding DNA strands… expanded heart….

Intentional or not… priceless!!!

Sirhr

 

[Advokaten]

I think that you have the same view as me, like the individual people but their politics suck.

Have a good day Advokaten. Maybe someday we'll meet and have a beer.

A good, few beer (s) and some quiet time has saved a lot of men from a lot of trouble, having one with you after being asked, sure, any day and tvice on a sunday.

Regarding the thing with group thinking as above, I can agree to a point, especially Swedes, are prone to thoughts of "having to have a common standpoint", we are told/taught that this has a lot do to with us being decentents from the wikings and how they lived, I really do not know.

 

[stefan73]

You should have just went here, where no one gives a shit about politics.
View attachment 7997434

Thats just where all the tourists hang out. The real fests are in the smaller towns!

 

[Thorny]

Thats just where all the tourists hang out. The real fests are in the smaller towns!

Yep brother in law and I were there wearing old Carhart's and flannels with these stupid American hats.

Crazy fun time.

 

[TheGerman]

I'm in Munich right now and I've spent the last week and change in London and Athens. I've been sporting flannel and a Coleman's Creek hat most of the trip. I suspect that might be part of the reason why I've been asked half a dozen times whether or not I voted for Trump. When I confirm the reaction is never positive. I've never asked any foreigners in the US who they voted for in their home country, as frankly, I don't give a shit. It seems like everyone wants to talk about American politics. Waiters, shop owners, cabbies etc.

Today I took a tour of a castle and on the way the tour guide was talking about the suspicious death of Ludwig II. The tour guide asked the group if anyone could guess who his heir was and I blurted out "the Clintons." It went over like a fart in church. I get that socialism is en vogue here, but lighten up a little.

So much to unpack.

First off, what castle? The good ones aren't really near Munich nor would they really have much reason to mention Ludwig unless you were in Fussen (where I was stationed as Mountain Recon) or at one of his other castles. The 'suspicious death' is more of a tourist trap bullshit story than anything. He was killed. Long story short, the guy literally did nothing but spend money and build shit for himself for decades (sound familiar?) and as the crown was losing power to actual government at that time, reforms were agreed to as basically everyone in Germany was pissed at and sick of this guy. It was an easy fix; kill this guy and most of your bullshit programs and problems died with him. Something we could all probably learn from. In Minecraft.

The guy swam all of the time and magically 'died' in basically a pond of water for no reason? LOL It's not very suspicious but it's been told that way since before I was around. I asked once why and my Opa basically told me that tourists/people not from Germany are fucking stupid. Still makes sense.

Onto the political questions, which are a bit layered so bare with me.

Before the fall of the wall (which was the beginning of the end, and the catalyst of making Germany the weak shadow of itself that is now) Germany for the most part run by the equivalent of right leaning fiscally responsible leadership. Not quite your hard core conservatives, but not that far either. The CDU and Helmut Kohl basically ran the place for more or less decades. CDU loosely translated is pretty much the Catholic Republican Party, so that should give you an idea.

I still can't figure out which version happened. All I know is that Opa (literally a hard core conservative that thought even a lot of Americans were politically weak - he's right a lot BTW) was pissed as all could be when it came out that the agreement for the wall to come down and to 'unify' Germany was happening. Pretty much no one in West Germany wanted it outside of the 'rich elite' and the leadership of other European countries (see: people who don't want to/won't have to deal with this shit). And to this day I still can't figure out if we got bamboozled with bullshit and feels into doing this to be the 'better person' or if we were so proud of ourselves in a post WW2 era to where our economy was strong and we had 0 national debt, etc so why not 'help' these people? Either way, we all got fucked by tearing down a wall separating regular society from a horde of Soviet indoctrinated Euro-Mexicans that had zero money, next to no skills, little/no actual education and even though they lived under communism, still to some extent started being like a bunch of useless fat fucking New Yorkers and moving to your area and starting with the 'back in NY we had this' bullshit. From communism. Seriously. This is the level of fucking dumb faggot you let into our country?

So...where does this bring us to in answering your question? To the slow decay or morals and infiltration of socialism and feels in the mid/late 1990s of course!

From here things slowly started to change, much like how they did in the US in the 2010s. We didn't end up with LBGTWTFBBQROFL whatever and Karens and feels over facts and government telling you to hold its beer when you said this couldn't possibly get worse all at the same time, right? Nope. It takes time to erode. And that's what happened. Long story short, 'feels' and social euro weeniism took over. This further eroded into the German equivalent of a RHINO in Merkel, and we all know how fucking communist she trended over the years.

The aspect you're seeing from this while there is pretty simple. Not sure if you're watching TV over there (or speak German) but the news, and I mean legit 110% of it, is what CNN whishes it could be. There is no news. It's a station that gives you a chain of events in the way they want you to see it, and then tells you why this is good/bad and why you think it should also be good/bad in a way that if you don't agree, you are the problem and you are racist or dumb or a nazi or whatever. Remember...Hitler also liked being warm in the winter, Nazi!

I witnessed this firsthand when Trump was running. My Oma, who has long since retired and hangs out at home with the TV on basically the entire day, would call me, super concerned about the new American Hitler that might actually get elected and how could anyone like him? He wants to go to war with everyone, he'll cut economic ties with Germany, he'll only enrich himself, his kids are going to benefit greatly, he's only going to screw everyone over for himself, he's racist, hates and hits women and we don't think he's all there mentally.

On a side note - Oma, you literally just described Joe Biden to a T, 5 years ahead of time.

They are told what to think. They are also in basically a 'newer' generation of being shamed and cancelled when you don't agree with the groupthink.

Hence your problem stems from 2 sides; 1, they are told all of this 24/7 and its all delivered as true bullshit being true. For example, their own government being so incompetent in regards to shutting down all of their self producing energy streams (nuclear, coal, etc) and putting all of their eggs in the Russia basket was somehow 'explained' as the entire energy crisis from the Ukraine war, greatly effecting Germany, isn't because we were all a bunch of dumb shits. Oh no. It was because of Trump colluding with Russia. You get the idea.

Trump to them is a curiosity. The shit they've been told about him, it's so fucking nuts that they don't even know WTF to believe anymore. The closest I can compare it to was back when tabloids/people have a 24/7 infatuation with what crazy shit Britney Spears was doing. If you're a 'Trump voter' you are also a curiosity because of 1 of 500 stereotypes that are placed with it like that you either still own slaves on a plantation back in Georgia, or you have 838909887 firearms and somehow haven't killed everyone with 20 miles of you, or you don't think climate change is real, or you ride around on a steer all day wearing a cowboy hat.

Secondly, your average Germany 35 and under right now, is a total liberal feels weenie. Any attempt to fight these people and....instantly Nazi. They are all super concerned with how others see them and that they are using the correct 'script'. Think of them as southern Cali liberals when talking to each other and how fucking gay and sanctimonious they sound. That's your average German now.

Which brings me to the story of the last time I was in Germany (which I don't recognize at all anymore, and I'm sure they would probably try me for war crimes at this point), a few months before the Trump election. 2 very telling things happened within this 24 hours that explained so much to me.

My mom (Trump voter), myself and my aunt (CDU voter) go to a bar in the larger city we're near. The Provence of Germany we are is one of the Provinces that is currently voting in sort of a mid-term type election for German government. So there was this group of 3 people from the CDU (remember, right wing German republicans) that were at the bar kind of casually making sure people voted and/or doing some kind of stealth exit polling. One comes over to talk to us and my mother tells him that she is a US citizen now and that so am I. The guys' eyes light up. Americans! Yet Germans who are from here and are now Americans. Even better! So the other 2 quickly come over.

With a smile on all 3 of their faces, and I remember this like it happened 10 mins ago because my mom and I still make fun of this guy to this day, the main guy (remember, right wing German republican party) asks us what we think about Clinton and Trump, because Clinton is such a well spoken, respected and accomplished statesperson; how could people actually vote for Trump and its troubling that anyone even takes him seriously.

We both told him we're voting for Trump. He thought we were literally fucking with him.

Second thing was that during this election, a new party had formed called the AFD (Alternative for Germany). It was a party that basically wanted to give German people a new alternative from the usual bullshit. They ran on Germans first. No debt. No immigration. Build our economy. Stop sending other places money. Stop interfering in other countries' bullshit. Basically, if you're not German, fuck off.

They won the largest amount of seats not only for a 'new' party, but for any party in a single election, in I think history. The news and all of the groupthink instantly panicked. We were going to round up gays and jews and put them in cattle cars. We're going to do every Nazi thing again because that party is 100% Nazis, etc. The news made it sound like everyone was about to be murdered in their sleep. People were crying. It was glorious.

BTW, you totally have the 'oh look, its an American' look. And EVERYONE there speaks English. We just like to watch you bumble around at the bus/train station asking for help from anyone that speaks English, know that we all do, and then not say anything.

 

[TheGerman]

Yep brother in law and I were there wearing old Carhart's and flannels with these stupid American hats.

View attachment 7998924
Crazy fun time.

Ah, the, 'Im stupid and I'm American' hat.

Also, Oktoberfest is in September, stupid Americans.

 

[vinniedelpino]

So much to unpack.

First off, what castle? The good ones aren't really near Munich nor would they really have much reason to mention Ludwig unless you were in Fussen (where I was stationed as Mountain Recon) or at one of his other castles. The 'suspicious death' is more of a tourist trap bullshit story than anything. He was killed. Long story short, the guy literally did nothing but spend money and build shit for himself for decades (sound familiar?) and as the crown was losing power to actual government at that time, reforms were agreed to as basically everyone in Germany was pissed at and sick of this guy. It was an easy fix; kill this guy and most of your bullshit programs and problems died with him. Something we could all probably learn from. In Minecraft.

The guy swam all of the time and magically 'died' in basically a pond of water for no reason? LOL It's not very suspicious but it's been told that way since before I was around. I asked once why and my Opa basically told me that tourists/people not from Germany are fucking stupid. Still makes sense.

Onto the political questions, which are a bit layered so bare with me.

Before the fall of the wall (which was the beginning of the end, and the catalyst of making Germany the weak shadow of itself that is now) Germany for the most part run by the equivalent of right leaning fiscally responsible leadership. Not quite your hard core conservatives, but not that far either. The CDU and Helmut Kohl basically ran the place for more or less decades. CDU loosely translated is pretty much the Catholic Republican Party, so that should give you an idea.

I still can't figure out which version happened. All I know is that Opa (literally a hard core conservative that thought even a lot of Americans were politically weak - he's right a lot BTW) was pissed as all could be when it came out that the agreement for the wall to come down and to 'unify' Germany was happening. Pretty much no one in West Germany wanted it outside of the 'rich elite' and the leadership of other European countries (see: people who don't want to/won't have to deal with this shit). And to this day I still can't figure out if we got bamboozled with bullshit and feels into doing this to be the 'better person' or if we were so proud of ourselves in a post WW2 era to where our economy was strong and we had 0 national debt, etc so why not 'help' these people? Either way, we all got fucked by tearing down a wall separating regular society from a horde of Soviet indoctrinated Euro-Mexicans that had zero money, next to no skills, little/no actual education and even though they lived under communism, still to some extent started being like a bunch of useless fat fucking New Yorkers and moving to your area and starting with the 'back in NY we had this' bullshit. From communism. Seriously. This is the level of fucking dumb faggot you let into our country?

So...where does this bring us to in answering your question? To the slow decay or morals and infiltration of socialism and feels in the mid/late 1990s of course!

From here things slowly started to change, much like how they did in the US in the 2010s. We didn't end up with LBGTWTFBBQROFL whatever and Karens and feels over facts and government telling you to hold its beer when you said this couldn't possibly get worse all at the same time, right? Nope. It takes time to erode. And that's what happened. Long story short, 'feels' and social euro weeniism took over. This further eroded into the German equivalent of a RHINO in Merkel, and we all know how fucking communist she trended over the years.

The aspect you're seeing from this while there is pretty simple. Not sure if you're watching TV over there (or speak German) but the news, and I mean legit 110% of it, is what CNN whishes it could be. There is no news. It's a station that gives you a chain of events in the way they want you to see it, and then tells you why this is good/bad and why you think it should also be good/bad in a way that if you don't agree, you are the problem and you are racist or dumb or a nazi or whatever. Remember...Hitler also liked being warm in the winter, Nazi!

I witnessed this firsthand when Trump was running. My Oma, who has long since retired and hangs out at home with the TV on basically the entire day, would call me, super concerned about the new American Hitler that might actually get elected and how could anyone like him? He wants to go to war with everyone, he'll cut economic ties with Germany, he'll only enrich himself, his kids are going to benefit greatly, he's only going to screw everyone over for himself, he's racist, hates and hits women and we don't think he's all there mentally.

On a side note - Oma, you literally just described Joe Biden to a T, 5 years ahead of time.

They are told what to think. They are also in basically a 'newer' generation of being shamed and cancelled when you don't agree with the groupthink.

Hence your problem stems from 2 sides; 1, they are told all of this 24/7 and its all delivered as true bullshit being true. For example, their own government being so incompetent in regards to shutting down all of their self producing energy streams (nuclear, coal, etc) and putting all of their eggs in the Russia basket was somehow 'explained' as the entire energy crisis from the Ukraine war, greatly effecting Germany, isn't because we were all a bunch of dumb shits. Oh no. It was because of Trump colluding with Russia. You get the idea.

Trump to them is a curiosity. The shit they've been told about him, it's so fucking nuts that they don't even know WTF to believe anymore. The closest I can compare it to was back when tabloids/people have a 24/7 infatuation with what crazy shit Britney Spears was doing. If you're a 'Trump voter' you are also a curiosity because of 1 of 500 stereotypes that are placed with it like that you either still own slaves on a plantation back in Georgia, or you have 838909887 firearms and somehow haven't killed everyone with 20 miles of you, or you don't think climate change is real, or you ride around on a steer all day wearing a cowboy hat.

Secondly, your average Germany 35 and under right now, is a total liberal feels weenie. Any attempt to fight these people and....instantly Nazi. They are all super concerned with how others see them and that they are using the correct 'script'. Think of them as southern Cali liberals when talking to each other and how fucking gay and sanctimonious they sound. That's your average German now.

Which brings me to the story of the last time I was in Germany (which I don't recognize at all anymore, and I'm sure they would probably try me for war crimes at this point), a few months before the Trump election. 2 very telling things happened within this 24 hours that explained so much to me.

My mom (Trump voter), myself and my aunt (CDU voter) go to a bar in the larger city we're near. The Provence of Germany we are is one of the Provinces that is currently voting in sort of a mid-term type election for German government. So there was this group of 3 people from the CDU (remember, right wing German republicans) that were at the bar kind of casually making sure people voted and/or doing some kind of stealth exit polling. One comes over to talk to us and my mother tells him that she is a US citizen now and that so am I. The guys' eyes light up. Americans! Yet Germans who are from here and are now Americans. Even better! So the other 2 quickly come over.

With a smile on all 3 of their faces, and I remember this like it happened 10 mins ago because my mom and I still make fun of this guy to this day, the main guy (remember, right wing German republican party) asks us what we think about Clinton and Trump, because Clinton is such a well spoken, respected and accomplished statesperson; how could people actually vote for Trump and its troubling that anyone even takes him seriously.

We both told him we're voting for Trump. He thought we were literally fucking with him.

Second thing was that during this election, a new party had formed called the AFD (Alternative for Germany). It was a party that basically wanted to give German people a new alternative from the usual bullshit. They ran on Germans first. No debt. No immigration. Build our economy. Stop sending other places money. Stop interfering in other countries' bullshit. Basically, if you're not German, fuck off.

They won the largest amount of seats not only for a 'new' party, but for any party in a single election, in I think history. The news and all of the groupthink instantly panicked. We were going to round up gays and jews and put them in cattle cars. We're going to do every Nazi thing again because that party is 100% Nazis, etc. The news made it sound like everyone was about to be murdered in their sleep. People were crying. It was glorious.

BTW, you totally have the 'oh look, its an American' look. And EVERYONE there speaks English. We just like to watch you bumble around at the bus/train station asking for help from anyone that speaks English, know that we all do, and then not say anything.

Neuschwanstein. It was alright. The "mysterious" part was more tongue and cheek. It was pretty obvious what went down. They even mentioned a fisherman finding his coat with two holes in it.

I'm not the type to ask for help. The trains were really easy to figure out. I still have no idea how the ticket system works though. I bought the tickets, but the damned things didn't fit into the little posts at the entrance to the platform, so I collected them in case the fuzz zeroed in on me. Weird stuff.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I bet the trains don't even run on time any more.... ;-)

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Threadcutter308]

I bet the trains don't even run on time any more.... ;-)

Cheers,

Sirhr

Yeah, no.........

"DelayBahn".......Used to piss off all my German counterparts when I'd tell them that the Swiss Rail System ran like a well oiled machine. All in all though, DeutschBahn wasn't bad. They had a hell of a nice high speed train between Munich and Berlin. Just beautiful. Quiet and smooth.

 

[308pirate]

If you went to Poland it would be different story.

Can confirm

 

[308pirate]

If the US left this continent, it would be right back to being at war within a year.

I fail to see a problem there

 

[308pirate]

Most of them understand American politics better than most Americans.

No, they do not. They think they do. And the fact that you think they understand means you know even less than they do.

Can you just get the fuck out of my country NOW, since you seem to hate it so much?

God can we start that motherfucking civil war already?

 

[308pirate]

First the questions arise from the fact that in most free and democratic European nations, the talking about politics and votes are a great deal of the interaction with others,

it is considered a sign of being a decent person to be able to talk about politics without acting out or being an arse.

Second, I for one and many more are really curious as to how one would vote for Trump, even if I disregard 2/3 of what the media portraits, the man is an utter tool and then some, I might be wrong, but I consider him to be the biggest part of your young nations break down. ( Trump is a lot like italian Berlusconi, a lot like the french Le Pen, or his swedish carbon copy and I think the term is fanboy?! Åkesson)
I only thougth that is was in some south american, penny nation that the congress is to be raided, regardless of who did it and why, I thought things like was a thing of the past.

So with that in mind, yes most europeans have a hard time understanding, a vote for Trump and also the "battle" that assumed afterwards. Remember in most Euroepan media he has been presented as a complete tool, and a person that has no moral standing what so ever.

Since you seem to have an issue with how most react to a Trump vote, well above are a few ideas as to why.

I for one realise, now more than ever, that the US had bigger issues prior to the Trump era began, than I knew of and he was not the sole reason they began, still,there is a lot to be said about what he did internationaly and not a lot of it was very good.

From an americans standpoint I can understand the thought and idea of withdrawing from international treaties and also the "world cop role"
as a good thing, I guess it is taxing at worst and not really rewarding at best, still no nation today can isolate it self from the rest of world, well ok, yes you can, but that wil not be for the best of the citicens, but for the leaders.

The world needs the US as a stable, viable and strong nation, showing what can be done, freedom and all, Europe need US as a partner and a detterent, from the russian, chinese aggressions, and I do belive that a bit of decency and more than a handful of understanding of each other goes an long way of maintaining a relationship.

A bit of understanding goes a long way, a bit of leniency takes you still a bit further, and acceptance will allow for the rest.

I guess, knowing from experience that there will be a lot of degrading comments about this post, well so be it. /C

Our internal affairs are simply none of your fucking business. More so even because you understand absolutely nothing about them.

You have just lapped up the bullshit lies your media fed you, and you have the gall to lecture US?

Go fuck yourself. I hope your fucking continent is engufled in another war except this time we save our money and our blood, you fucking monkey.

PS, learn to speak Russian well. You'll need it sooner than you think.

 

[308pirate]

a new party had formed called the AFD (Alternative for Germany).

Id' fuck her but looks like someone beat me to it

 

[TheGerman]

Neuschwanstein. It was alright. The "mysterious" part was more tongue and cheek. It was pretty obvious what went down. They even mentioned a fisherman finding his coat with two holes in it.

I'm not the type to ask for help. The trains were really easy to figure out. I still have no idea how the ticket system works though. I bought the tickets, but the damned things didn't fit into the little posts at the entrance to the platform, so I collected them in case the fuzz zeroed in on me. Weird stuff.

I've been there like 970287029 times. I was stationed in Fussen and grew up 45 minutes away. I may or may not have had some foreign relations on a wooden bench on the way up to the castle. Allegedly. Maybe you sat in my DNA.

I remember the first time I saw the Disney castle and realized what an awful lame knock off it was of the real thing. Not to mention that its like 1/8th the size. Ludwig is always portrayed with a romantic story of how he was an innocent young guy who was shy and liked to paint and architecture and whatever. In reality, he was the closest thing we had to sending someone to the guillotine.

I also always thought it was hilarious when the foreigners (mainly Americans) realized that at the base of the mountain the castle is on, there is a road that kind of wraps around a bit and leads to the 'Hof'. However, its closed for cars (or ar least it is most of the year). The look on their faces when they realize they have to hike up the road with like a 30 degree incline the entire way is priceless.

It's also the first place I ever saw Chinese people in my life. They would always arrive in giant groups and 90% of them wore masks and gloves.

 

[vinniedelpino]

I've been there like 970287029 times. I was stationed in Fussen and grew up 45 minutes away. I may or may not have had some foreign relations on a wooden bench on the way up to the castle. Allegedly. Maybe you sat in my DNA.

I remember the first time I saw the Disney castle and realized what an awful lame knock off it was of the real thing. Not to mention that its like 1/8th the size. Ludwig is always portrayed with a romantic story of how he was an innocent young guy who was shy and liked to paint and architecture and whatever. In reality, he was the closest thing we had to sending someone to the guillotine.

I also always thought it was hilarious when the foreigners (mainly Americans) realized that at the base of the mountain the castle is on, there is a road that kind of wraps around a bit and leads to the 'Hof'. However, its closed for cars (or ar least it is most of the year). The look on their faces when they realize they have to hike up the road with like a 30 degree incline the entire way is priceless.

It's also the first place I ever saw Chinese people in my life. They would always arrive in giant groups and 90% of them wore masks and gloves.

Also an asparagus harvester… whatever that’s about.

 

[stefan73]

@TheGerman, most of my family are Gablonzers from around Kaufbeuren. Went to Gymnasium in Muhldorf when I was living with some of my family. I loved it there, went to schutzenverein every Sunday after Church, would shoot and then have some schnitzel and a rattler (I was 13). The good old days

 

[Mr.BR]

''Supreme Soviet of EU'' aka EU Commision just proposed a new emissions standard for cars and trucks called Euro 7 , now they want to control brake pad ,disc particle emissions and tire particle emissions in addition to exhaust emissions. so i guess my carbon fiber brakes are not kosher anymore?

Eat your heart out Comiefornia !!

''Euro 7 will lower NOx emissions from cars and vans by 35% compared to Euro 6, and by 56% compared to Euro VI from buses and lorries. At the same time, particles from the tailpipe will be lowered by 13% from cars and vans, and 39% from buses and lorries, while particles from the brakes of cars will be lowered by 27%. ''

Press corner

Highlights, press releases and speeches

ec.europa.eu

 

[Mike Casselton]

So this is not about you being in Munich, this is about you being fed up with your own government.
That is fine and so on.
The part of being left alone, is great and one that ought to be respected. I would not have asked you about how you voted and further more I really do not care, it´s really your thing.
However you asked, or rather as I see it complained a bit about why you were asked, I replied as to how I belive things are.

The making of the US and the very beginning of your great nation was all about rights, taxes ( not to taxed or at least have a say so about it) and the will to be free, and that is a very different starting point, a good one from were most nations in Europe started.
I am sorry that I implied that Trump is a tool, but that is how he has come across and acted as far as can be seen from here.

One thing that I might pick up a bit of, here, and there is a bit of recentment against europeans, and also now towards me, you asked about something and got a reply, one that did not landed smoothly.

I could sort of summarize things like this, since we ( Europe) are dependent on a US that is great, that is stable, that is part of a international trade, security, financial network, we, I would like for you to have a president that is not quite what you are having now, and not what you had, since they are both lacking in different ways.

What you've seen on television and read from media sources is EXACTLY what those that don't like a FREE REPUBLIC want you to see.
Yeah, he's crass, yeah, he's in your face. He's from NYC.

What you haven't seen or read about, is all the very good things he did.

Every good thing he did was overshadowed by media bias.

That's right, MEDIA BIAS.

The media has controlled the narrative of what you see and hear.
They took every opportunity to make him look bad. When there wasn't an opportunity, they created one.

Now that Joe Poopypants is in office, the media has done a complete 180° and no matter how bad things are, they cover it up or create a distraction.

It's like children watching a magician. They are mesmerized. Anyone that understands how it works sees the sleight of hand being used to create the illusion...

 

[Mike Casselton]

It's not just Munich. Of the last six or so countries I've visited in the last five years only the Brits didn't bring up politics.

You mentioned that you didn't understand how people could vote for Trump, so I explained my reasoning. I don't resent Europeans at all, and I certainly don't resent you. Nothing but love from me, bruv.

If you think Trump is a tool that's nothing to apologize over either. I'm not easily offended and that's nothing to get offended over. My OP was merely an observation that Europe, as a whole, is far more invested in US politics and far more prone to groupthink than the US. I found that both amazing and terrifying given our current state of affairs.

This is exactly why Europeans pay so much attention to US politics.
It's too bad that the media is nothing but a bunch of fucking lying pigs.
(Apologies to actual pigs)

 

[308pirate]

''Supreme Soviet of EU'' aka EU Commision just proposed a new emissions standard for cars and trucks called Euro 7 , now they want to control brake pad and disc particle emissions and tire particle emissions in addition to exhaust emissions. so i guess my carbon fiber brakes are not kosher anymore?

Eat your heart out Comiefornia !!

''Euro 7 will lower NOx emissions from cars and vans by 35% compared to Euro 6, and by 56% compared to Euro VI from buses and lorries. At the same time, particles from the tailpipe will be lowered by 13% from cars and vans, and 39% from buses and lorries, while particles from the brakes of cars will be lowered by 27%. ''

Press corner

Highlights, press releases and speeches

ec.europa.eu

It's like a race to the bottom to see who is the biggest asshole in government

 

[308pirate]

This is exactly why Europeans pay so much attention to US politics.
It's too bad that the media is nothing but a bunch of fucking lying pigs.
(Apologies to actual pigs)

View attachment 8000222

Maybe they wouldn't be so anxious if they were a self sufficient group of countries when it comes to energy (everyone can build nuclear reactors), money, manufacturing, food, and national security. You know, like countries run by mature adults.

Instead they act like little dependent children.

 

[hlee]

Maybe they wouldn't be so anxious if they were a self sufficient group of countries when it comes to energy (everyone can build nuclear reactors), money, manufacturing, food, and national security. You know, like countries run by mature adults.

Instead they act like little dependent children.

With tax season just around the corner, please let me be the first to say that this year I am claiming Germany as a dependent. Surely that will get me a refund…

 

[308pirate]

With tax season just around the corner, please let me be the first to say that this year I am claiming Germany as a dependent. Surely that will get me a refund…

Adopt Sweden. That's where the whiny bitch @Advokaten is from evidently.

 

[JakeM]

First the questions arise from the fact that in most free and democratic European nations, the talking about politics and votes are a great deal of the interaction with others,

it is considered a sign of being a decent person to be able to talk about politics without acting out or being an arse.

Second, I for one and many more are really curious as to how one would vote for Trump, even if I disregard 2/3 of what the media portraits, the man is an utter tool and then some, I might be wrong, but I consider him to be the biggest part of your young nations break down. ( Trump is a lot like italian Berlusconi, a lot like the french Le Pen, or his swedish carbon copy and I think the term is fanboy?! Åkesson)
I only thougth that is was in some south american, penny nation that the congress is to be raided, regardless of who did it and why, I thought things like was a thing of the past.

So with that in mind, yes most europeans have a hard time understanding, a vote for Trump and also the "battle" that assumed afterwards. Remember in most Euroepan media he has been presented as a complete tool, and a person that has no moral standing what so ever.

Since you seem to have an issue with how most react to a Trump vote, well above are a few ideas as to why.

I for one realise, now more than ever, that the US had bigger issues prior to the Trump era began, than I knew of and he was not the sole reason they began, still,there is a lot to be said about what he did internationaly and not a lot of it was very good.

From an americans standpoint I can understand the thought and idea of withdrawing from international treaties and also the "world cop role"
as a good thing, I guess it is taxing at worst and not really rewarding at best, still no nation today can isolate it self from the rest of world, well ok, yes you can, but that wil not be for the best of the citicens, but for the leaders.

The world needs the US as a stable, viable and strong nation, showing what can be done, freedom and all, Europe need US as a partner and a detterent, from the russian, chinese aggressions, and I do belive that a bit of decency and more than a handful of understanding of each other goes an long way of maintaining a relationship.

A bit of understanding goes a long way, a bit of leniency takes you still a bit further, and acceptance will allow for the rest.

I guess, knowing from experience that there will be a lot of degrading comments about this post, well so be it. /C

The reasons why you don't like him are all the reasons why Russia, China and North Korea respect him.
Which is why Ukraine wasn't invaded under him. The Russians tried us once under Trump, it didn't end well, they had like 200 KIA.

You Euros don't seem to realize that everyone except you guys value things like respect.
When I say "respect" I don't mean lip service, I mean a real understanding of where the line is.
Euro cuckservatives are just like their commie counter parts, only once every two weeks they will openly say that "immigration is kind of not a good thing", then they will do everything that the commies do.

Who cares if he is mean, if it means that Russia and China don't tow the line?
You realize that China is trying to build the biggest Navy in the world right now, and they aren't playing fair.
Last I heard they were outfitting civilian container ships with missile bays.
I'm sure they are doing that for world peace and nice tweets so you Euros can feel good about your 12 year olds getting raped.
Oh wait, China doesn't play that shit, they put them to picking cotton.

 

[308pirate]

From an americans standpoint I can understand the thought and idea of withdrawing from international treaties and also the "world cop role"
as a good thing, I guess it is taxing at worst and not really rewarding at best, still no nation today can isolate it self from the rest of world, well ok, yes you can, but that wil not be for the best of the citicens, but for the leaders.

I still can't get over the utter arrogance of a Swede telling us what is best for us.