Rifle Scopes eye relief question/problem

[jasonZ]

So I've been meaning to ask for awhile. I've got a savage 10fp, mounted in a choate tactical stock. I'm using a ken ferrel 20moa rail, burris xtr low rings, and a leupold mk4 4.5-14x50 scope. The problem I'm having is that I can't get my scope far enough forward to keep from having fatigue problems with my neck. I have to pull my head back to get a full sight picture and it doesn't take long before my head/neck starts to hurt. It's either that or I have to not tuck the stock into the shoulder well.

Now I'm thinking I need to increase my lop? I have 2 spaces on it now, one 1/4" and one 1/2". I don't know if I can purchase any more spaces from choate or not. The rifle has always felt comfortable other then this and I've been making adjustments to the scope after range trips to try and make it better, but I ran out of room tonight. What do you guys think? I'm gonna look up how to measure lop and check that now.
Thanks, Jason

Here are the correct pictures of the current configuration.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Well lop could be an issue! I'm not certain I did it right, because there are several ideas and everybody says there's no right or wrong. I measured from the trigger to the back of the butt pad, approximately 13". Then I measured from the inside of my elbow to the last joint in the index finger, approximately 15". By that it would appear that I'm roughly 2" short on lop of the stock. I'm concerned, two fold, first the I'm not correct in my thought process and second....how in the hell am I gonna increase lop by 2"? I may have to have somebody custom make me some spacers? Perplexed!

 

[kombar]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Shooting position comes to mind. Granted, 13" is kind of short on the LOP, but depending on how you're getting behind the rifle, your head position can vary by a few inches.

What kind of shooting are you doing? Bench, prone with sling, prone with bipod, kneeling, and offhand often require different scope positioning. For example, when I shoot prone with sling support, my body is at more of an angle to the rifle than when I use bipod support. That angle brings my head closer to the scope, requiring that I place it further forward.

Since Farrel bases don't extend beyond the front of the receiver, you could always swap it out for one that does, like a Badger, and give yourself a little more room to move it forward.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

yeah sorry, I shoot mostly prone off bipod. Sometimes off a bag, but still prone. I may occasionally shoot off hand or sitting with the rifle on a tripod. My normal body position is straight up behind the rifle, as best as possible anyways. I don't lay at an angle behind the rifle. I never actually thought about that, but generally I'm straight behind the rifle and try to be in the same shooting position every time. I've thought about another rail, but I'm now really concerned about the LOP issue since I really never paid attention to it. I've been looking at aftermarket adjustable butt pads, say like 3way types and such. I'm just not really comfortable with adding 2" of spacers on top of the two that are already there. It's either that or buy a different brand of stock and have it inletted and such. That's another question/post for another day though! Thanks for bringing the position up, Jason

 

[dieselten]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Fitting the stock to you is very important. I would suggest using something to experiment with adding length to your stock. Perhaps a couple of paperback books or something else you could stick between the butt pad and your shoulder when in position. Find the right length through experimentation and then get or make the correct spacers. Don't be afraid to add more to your stock, perhaps you could get rid of all the small ones and get one big one? Call choate and inquire, or make something yourself. Do the same thing for the comb height too.

 

[itieknots7]

Re: eye relief question/problem

How about experimenting with some recoil pads to see if that helps your nck fatique. a 5 dollar recoild pad is a lot cheaper than chasing stock problems

 

[Natty Bumpo]

Re: eye relief question/problem

I shoot prone with a sling a lot, and I like the extra long pic' rails that extend beyond the action a little bit. With those I can get my scope far enough forward that I can get the whole sight picture when I'm behind it prone with the rifle in tight with the sling. And yeah, 13" seems a bit short for LOP. I wish spacers were standard on most stocks, including factory rifles.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

I have a stock pack on it and it has the factory pad, probably an inch plus thick. I could try something else, but I think in all reality it will only shorten an already short lop. I may try a new rail, but I think I should try to fix the lop first. My plan in ky head is to take a router to a price of 2x4 and manufacture a spacer to add at least qn inch first, but I'm gonna shoot for 2 inches. I'll post some pics of current setup to help illustrate. I may need to add a cheek piece as well.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Anybody got any other thoughts on this? I'm going on days off tomorrow and I'm thinking I'll manufacture a piece of wood to add some lop. I will need to do some routing on it to make it fit properly and give myself an approximate model as to which I can then have a piece of aluminum machined to match. It's either that or I can buy 3/4" of spacers from Choate and add a couple sets of those. In the end, if it works, I think I'd like to have a solid pc of aluminum machined to be able to remove the two plastic spacers as well. Thanks, Jason

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: eye relief question/problem

boltrippers thoughts are this.....it ain't the stick, or the parts that are giving you a pain.....its you, yes YOU

train like you normally train, but get used to laying on the deck......

from now on do all internet stuff prone,,,,,laptop or desk monitor on the floor....this will force a muscle group to adjust to the comfort lever that will make prone shooting a snap and it will seem natural.......trust me on this...if a fat boy like me can do it....you also can

 

[XTR]

Re: eye relief question/problem

I'm betting on LOP, the standard LOP on most stocks is 13 1/2, you probably need another 1/4 to 1/2 inch. I added 3/4 to a B&C using spacers from Midway and a dremel too.

I don't think that whole LOP determination measuring from the elbow to the finger is the right idea, based on that number I'd need a 17" LOP. Um, nope. I'm not sure what the ideal elbow angle is but I'm pretty sure that you don't need 15 inches.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: eye relief question/problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I measured from the inside of my elbow to the last joint in the index finger, approximately 15". </div></div>

Be sure to measure with your arm folded a little past 90-degrees, as the same measurement with arm extended (or not folded as much) will be an inch or two longer.

As for scope position, can the front ring be moved forward on the rail another slot or two? (Hard to tell looking at the pics.)

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Well it can't now, but in the pic I could have. Sorry I loaded old pics which don't show the current setup. I have both rings moved to the farthest slots and the scope pushed as far forward in the rings as possible. I haven't shot it in the current configuration yet, but it was close the last time. I laid behind the rifle for 3hrs the other night and had the worst headache afterwards. I was trying to condition myself to the position and check things out during my up all night to prepare for the next nights work thing. I've spent a lot of long sessions behind the glass after small increments of adjustments and I'm still having issues. I'm finally just going to bite the bullet and make bigger adjustments to see if it helps.

As far as the measurement on the arm. I put myself in a prone position and tried to duplicate my normal position as much as possible before the measurement. I had my wife measure me. She thinks I'm nuts, especially after setting up my rifle in the dining room and lying on it for 3hrs. She went to sleep as I started and woke up a couple hours later to potty. She stops in the hall and just sanded there for a minute staring. Then she asks if I'm alright, so I had to explain it to her and she don't understand, but she could of been half asleep too!

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: eye relief question/problem

If you are using muscle to support your head you need to change your setup. You
can only do one thing at a time perfectly. Supporting your head and pulling the
trigger are two things. A three way adjustable butt is what I would put on the gun.
You may need an adjustable cheek piece as well.
I personally hate shooting prone. I am old enough now I don't do it at all anymore.
It's the best way to shoot with the least amount of gear to haul I know.
I just googled f class gun pics. Amazing how many have stock spacers, adjustable stocks and cheek pieces isn't it. Palma gun pics will look about the
same.

 

[VKC]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Increase the LOP. Adjust the parallax.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

I was already considering a karsten or similar to see if it would help. I'll probably do some mock up with foam or something and lay behind it like that for awhile to see what happens. The 3way adjustable butt plate has also entered my mind, but I'd like to determine if spending the money and time to integrate one is worth it. Again I'm going to mock up something to use as a spacer first and see how it feels after laying behind it for awhile. We'll see what happens. I appreciate all your help and suggestions fellas. Thanks, Jason

 

[josey88]

Re: eye relief question/problem

It seems to me that you are in need of a cheekpiece . Get a Karsten and because you will be able to rest yor cheek on the piece , 80% of your problemn will disappear .

 

[tylerw02]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Are you sure you have a Leupold Mark 4?

I've never seen a Leupold with white lettering on the side focus knob or white lettering in the black mark 4 ring.

Well your pic is gone now, so I dunno.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

According to Leupold it's a genuine deal anyhow. I removed the pics, as I put up the old ones and it did not reflect the current location of the scope/rings/rail configuration. I have to take more pics. Something that I should probably get done and posted actually. Thanks, Jason

pic added for the questions!

 

[tylerw02]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Yeah that definitely is. I don't know what I was seeing before, guess it was a reflection or something.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

So I've ordered a cheek riser from swp and we'll see how that works. I played with some home made spacers and I'm gonna order some extra spacers from choate. I also found that they have a simple add on rear mono pod that costs less that $30, so I'll probably be ordering that too! Thanks for all the information and suggestions guys, Jason

 

[jasonZ]

Re: eye relief question/problem

Added the swp cheek rider and made an lop extension. Ain't shot it yet, but its much more comfortable to stay behind for awhile. I think I got my problem solved for now. I gotta order or have made the proper extension for the lop....for cosmetics anyhow. Plus I found that choate has a simple add on rear monopod that I'll be ordering here shortly. Get that new ER Shaw barrel and it should be an easy sub 1/2 moa gun.....I hope!