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Advanced Marksmanship F-Class t/r and moa....

S

sailhertoo

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 18, 2006
125
2
60
Florida
To be the best in this class, what is the highest moa gun that will do the trick, so long as you do your job?

Reason I'm asking is I'm really tired of load developement. My gun shoots 1/2 moa or better. When do you stop and call it good? One moa at a 1000 yards is 10 inches and that won't hit the bull every time, then you add wind.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Only problem with waiting for a calm day is that you won't get to shoot much. Get out there and shoot, learn to read wind and mirage and use the flat calm days for load development.


1911fan
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a load which shoots 1/2 MOA at extended ranges, the rest is up to you. </div></div>

Are you implying if your gun is holding 1/2 at 200 it might not be holding 1/2 at 600 or 1000 yards?
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Worry about your SDs and your grouping. Shoot a 10 to 20 shot group and your load should be under 10 SD. If the load is not, then back to the drawing board. You must shoot at any given chance you get. The wind will be a friend to you. Once you learn how to read it. This will give you an advantage over the shooters who can't read the wind.

On a calm day at a match. I will get more nervous about the competition than on a windy day. A calm day a lot of good scores will be shot. Now on a windy or mirage day it will separate the shooters from the people who only shoot when it is nice out. Get excited when the wind is blowing and shoot. This will give you a great 1 up on the other shooters. Good luck and Good Shooting
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a load which shoots 1/2 MOA at extended ranges, the rest is up to you. </div></div>

Are you implying if your gun is holding 1/2 at 200 it might not be holding 1/2 at 600 or 1000 yards? </div></div>

I think he is implying exactly that, though we are talking MOA not inches. I've found a couple loads that shoot better at short range than they do at long range. Only way to find out is by shooting at extended ranges. I've done load development at F-Class matches (600 yards) and I'm sure most of us have.


1911fan
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be the best in this class, what is the highest moa gun that will do the trick
</div></div>

To be blunt, quit worrying about theoretical best-case accuracy and get your behind to some matches and start shooting.

There are days where the guys with the 1/4 moa guns and the ability to hold dead-on steady will win... and then the rest of the time the wind tends to wipe out that last nth degree of perfect accuracy and it can be anybodys game. So get the gun shooting good (sounds like it's working well enough), take it to some matches and start working on the rest of the game - maintaining (and correcting) your position over a long string of shots, dealing with adverse conditions such as lighting, wind, uneven firing points, slow target puller, funky terrain features, etc. As dar mentioned... on a calm day anybody can shoot a good score. The wind tends to make things more interesting.

If you're worrying about "what is the highest moa gun that will do the trick" then you have a ways to go before you need to worry about "To be the best in this class". You can't do anything about what the other guy brings to the line any given day... get out there and get your own stuff in order, and the rest will take care of itself in due time.

YMMV,

Monte
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be the best in this class, what is the highest moa gun that will do the trick
</div></div>

To be blunt, quit worrying about theoretical best-case accuracy and get your behind to some matches and start shooting.

There are days where the guys with the 1/4 moa guns and the ability to hold dead-on steady will win... and then the rest of the time the wind tends to wipe out that last nth degree of perfect accuracy and it can be anybodys game. So get the gun shooting good (sounds like it's working well enough), take it to some matches and start working on the rest of the game - maintaining (and correcting) your position over a long string of shots, dealing with adverse conditions such as lighting, wind, uneven firing points, slow target puller, funky terrain features, etc. As dar mentioned... on a calm day anybody can shoot a good score. The wind tends to make things more interesting.

If you're worrying about "what is the highest moa gun that will do the trick" then you have a ways to go before you need to worry about "To be the best in this class". You can't do anything about what the other guy brings to the line any given day... get out there and get your own stuff in order, and the rest will take care of itself in due time.

YMMV,

Monte </div></div>
+1 agree
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be the best in this class, what is the highest moa gun that will do the trick
</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">To be blunt, quit worrying about theoretical best-case accuracy and get your behind to some matches and start shooting.</span>

There are days where the guys with the 1/4 moa guns and the ability to hold dead-on steady will win... and then the rest of the time the wind tends to wipe out that last nth degree of perfect accuracy and it can be anybodys game. So get the gun shooting good (sounds like it's working well enough), take it to some matches and start working on the rest of the game - maintaining (and correcting) your position over a long string of shots, dealing with adverse conditions such as lighting, wind, uneven firing points, slow target puller, funky terrain features, etc. As dar mentioned... on a calm day anybody can shoot a good score. The wind tends to make things more interesting.

<span style="color: #FF0000">If you're worrying about "what is the highest moa gun that will do the trick" then you have a ways to go before you need to worry about "To be the best in this class". </span>You can't do anything about what the other guy brings to the line any given day... get out there and get your own stuff in order, and the rest will take care of itself in due time.

YMMV,

Monte </div></div>

I do shoot comps. For your information my "behind" is shooting all the time.

I think it is avalad question for anyone who wants to learn and get a grip on the playing field you are up against.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not worrying. Geesh. It was just a question.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a load which shoots 1/2 MOA at extended ranges, the rest is up to you. </div></div>

Are you implying if your gun is holding 1/2 at 200 it might not be holding 1/2 at 600 or 1000 yards? </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #990000">Yes I am! </span></span> If the rifle is shooting with a high standard deviation regarding velocity then the vertical dispersion of the shots will exceed the horizontal (in a calm.) </div></div>

I load develope at 200 yards.
So if I have a load that shoots 1/2moa with a sd of 12, and another load that shoots 1moa with a sd of 7, which one would you choose?
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

If you actually do compete, them you should realize that sheer mechanical accuracy only takes you so far in any given sport. Shooter judgement and skill at handling the conditions of the day play a far greater part. So again, get out to F-Class matches and shoot in them, and you'll find the answers quickly enough. Far too many people sit on the sidelines worrying about whether they can shoot as good as someone else... and if they can't, they won't risk going to a match - which in my opinion is very much the wrong approach. Accept the challenge of competing against yourself - strive to beat your own personal best/average/aggregate/whatever, and let the rest take care of itself.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I load develop at 200 yards.
So if I have a load that shoots 1/2moa with a sd of 12, and another load that shoots 1moa with a sd of 7, which one would you choose? </div></div>

The more accurate one. The ES/SD part only comes into play once you have a handle on the basic accuracy portion.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">If you actually do compete, them you should realize that sheer mechanical accuracy only takes you so far in any given sport.</span> Shooter judgement and skill at handling the conditions of the day play a far greater part. So again, get out to F-Class matches and shoot in them, and you'll find the answers quickly enough. Far too many people sit on the sidelines worrying about whether they can shoot as good as someone else... and if they can't, they won't risk going to a match - which in my opinion is very much the wrong approach. Accept the challenge of competing against yourself - strive to beat your own personal best/average/aggregate/whatever, and let the rest take care of itself. </div></div>

So do you know or are you going to keep telling me I need to go shoot.

All this blabber and you have yet to answer my question. Please don't hi-jack my thread.
<span style="color: #FF0000"> </span> And yes, I actually do compete.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Do I know...
laugh.gif


If you can hold a good solid 1/2 moa *vertical*, from position, for a 10 or 20 shot string, you'll be in good condition. Less is always better, but hard to sometimes tell for sure in the real world. I don't worry so much about 'group size' since we shoot for score in this game, but is the shot 'on call'. Did it fall within an acceptable distance of where I called it - not just where I was aiming, but where the shot broke at and where I 'called' it based on the assumption that my hold has some wiggle to it.

No its not an absolute set in stone rule of thumb. And most people who shoot enough won't give you one either.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

In most matches I have been to. If you shoot under a MOA for all shots would be a perfect score. My gun shoots in the 1s at 100 yards but I can't hold the gun at that distance due to the shooting factors. Therefore if your gun is shooting under a 1/2 moa. Your good. The SDs will have more to play past 600, at 1000 yards it will.

I think the big thing is not shoot out the barrel before getting a perfect load. You will have to set certian standards that you want your load to end up at. Sometimes I have chase the perfect load instead of shooting. Now days I know what I will except the load or not. Once I think it will work. I step out to 600 and shoot.
If you have been going to matches you should keep a log on shooting scores and marking where your hits was on the target. If you feel you need to adjust your load from your results.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

You could have worse guys "blabbering" on your thread about being competitive in F T/R shooting....like me
wink.gif


Might want to check out the names of the members of the US F T/R team.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jb9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could have worse guys "blabbering" on your thread about being competitive in F T/R shooting....like me
wink.gif


Might want to check out the names of the members of the US F T/R team.
</div></div>

Well I don't appreiciate the insenuations and the preaching. No one here knows me or what I do yet they even question whether or not I even shoot. It was just a legit, simple question.

Thanks for the answers. Had to drag 'em out of ya though.
wink.gif


 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

You are right. Not trying to disrespect you or your skills as a shooter. But if you know the answers, then why ask?

If you look at my post Shot groups at 600 yards. I had some helpful input from hide members. Most of the people don't know you but they also don't know the level of shooter you are. Maybe clearify it in your post. This way they will answer you correctly.
Good luck and Good shooting
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think the big thing is not shoot out the barrel before getting a perfect load.
</div></div>

HA Thats funny you say that.

I think I'm heading in that direction. I'm ready to call my loads good. ( and get my behind out there shooting)
wink.gif
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are right. Not trying to disrespect you. But if you know the answers, then why ask? </div></div>

Listen here, I asked a question on a subject that none of you answered. In sted you questioned if I even shoot a gun or shoot comps and then tell me I need to go shoot.

Whats the big deal.

Edit to add - I shoot enough to know there are some really arogant shooters.

I come here to make friends and learn about the sport.

Lets just start over and let this thread die.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

99% of the time I see almost that *exact* question from people who, as I said, are busy farting around on the sidelines. Some sort of weird mindset that if they can't win the whole she-bang their first time out, then they won't come out and play at all. Or they want some 'absolute' answer which I can't or won't give - because I've beaten people who I know are far better shots than I am - but the wind gods and bullet fairies favored me that day. And then there are those days when I can't seem to find my own a$$ with both hands and a flashlight, much less the X-ring
wink.gif
. If you say you do compete, then fine. See ya on the firing line.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So do you know or are you going to keep telling me I need to go shoot. All this blabber and you have yet to answer my question.</div></div>

Blabbermouth He's the third one down. Might have a clue what he's blabbering about.

And I think your question has been answered several times, albeit indirectly. Here's a direct answer: If it'll hold half MOA or better, you're there. When you can hold harder than your rifle can shoot is when you worry about the last nth degree of accuracy. If it holds .5 MOA at 600 yards, then any shot outside the X ring is shooter error. How much better do you need? IMHO, the nut between the Peltors plays a greater effect on accuracy than any decent rifle, and of any two shooters with .5 MOA rifles the winner on any given day is the one who can read wind.


1911fan
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">99% of the time I see almost that *exact* question from people who, as I said, are busy farting around on the sidelines. Some sort of weird mindset that if they can't win the whole she-bang their first time out, then they won't come out and play at all. Or they want some 'absolute' answer which I can't or won't give - because I've beaten people who I know are far better shots than I am - but the wind gods and bullet fairies favored me that day. And then there are those days when I can't seem to find my own a$$ with both hands and a flashlight, much less the X-ring
wink.gif
. <span style="color: #FF0000">If you say you do compete, then fine. See ya on the firing line.</span> </div></div>

There you go again. Just can't believe someone else besides you actually can shoot a gun.

Were you at Butner for the Nationals this past fall?

I'm the guy that was in first place after the first 15 round string at the 600. Went down hill from there due to my inexperance and over all shooting abilities. But I'm working on it and And I'll get there. Hope to see you on the firing line.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There you go again. Just can't believe someone else besides you actually can shoot a gun.</div></div>

Yep, ya got me pegged.
sleep.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were you at Butner this past fall?</div></div>

Yep, hating myself for bringing my F/O gun for a 'change of pace' instead of sticking with what worked.
cry.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm the guy that was in first place after the first 15 round string at the 600. </div></div>

Sounds like you're off to a great start. Butner is a tricky range... a bit more subtle than I'm used to, thats for sure. Honestly, I wish you luck. It may not seem like it, but I'm trying to *not* lead you on by giving you an answer that is simple and to the point - but incorrect under some circumstances. Sorry if it was not as direct and authoritative as you wanted. I've never claimed to have all the answers, and I ask my fair share of questions too. If you really read that much into my posts... dunno what to tell you other than...

Have a nice day.

Monte
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Sailhertoo- Check the match results again. Dean Morris was leading F-open after the first string and I was leading after the first string for F-TR. You may have been first in your class, but not first overall. Milanuk was just trying to help and I think you should find appreciation that someone is willing to try and help you, even if you disagree with the response.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sailhertoo- Check the match results again. Dean Morris was leading F-open after the first string and I was leading after the first string for F-TR. You may have been first in your class, but not first overall. Milanuk was just trying to help and I think you should find appreciation that someone is willing to try and help you, even if you disagree with the response. </div></div>

Check again. http://www.northstateshootingclub.com/pdfs/FClassNational_results.pdf

I shoot F/tr and and shot 149-7. Results on the web site. (edit a wrong statement)

Look under the last name "Queen".
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Now look under the name 'Rorer' and see where it says 'OW'... that means 'Overall Winner', otherwise known as 'Match Winner', with a score of 150-5X. You may have gotten 1st F/TR for that string (good job, BTW) but 'Match Winner' trumps '1st F/TR' most days of the week... so no, he's not a liar. You might want to calm down a bit, eh?
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Met him. Very nice guy.

I never clamed to win the match. Just the first string. F/tr.

Why don't you calm down and stop making accusations?
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sailhertoo- Check the match results again. Dean Morris was leading F-open after the first string and <span style="color: #FF0000">I was leading after the first string for F-TR.</span> You may have been first in your class, but not first overall. Milanuk was just trying to help and I think you should find appreciation that someone is willing to try and help you, even if you disagree with the response. </div></div>

Check again - is your name "Queen"?

If I'm wrong in some way I truely apologize.(edit for my incorrect statement)

Here is the link again: http://www.northstateshootingclub.com/pdfs/FClassNational_results.pdf
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Met him. Very nice guy.</div></div>

Really. Do you call the people you think are 'very nice guy's liars as well? Here's a hint: usftr = 'Jeff Rorer'.

Each 'string' was a match. Read your match bulletin, or look at the match results; it's rather obvious when you look at them. If you actually *look* at the results for the string you 'won' before spouting off with some smart-a$$ed come back, you'll note that there is a higher score *in that string*. Thats why you got 1st F/TR and he got 'Overal Winner' *for that match*.

Might want to learn to read the match results properly before you go tooting your own horn, or calling other people liars.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Under my name it says 1st place for the first string(15 shots) - what am I missing here? This is for F/tr - not open class
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Jeff,

We stayed at the same Hotel. We only spoke briefy I think at breakfast. I remember I told you I was in first place after the first string and you asked if I cleaned them and I said no.

I remember you looking at me funny when I said that. But the results say with 149-7 after the first 15 round string I was first. What am I missing out on?
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Capture.jpg
</div></div>

I thought Jeff was open class.

Guess I'm 'fused.

I owe you an apolge Jeff. I thought 1st ment "1st".

Guess I was a close 2nd?

Watch for me this year.
wink.gif


Edit to add: you guys busted my bubble. And Please accept my apology for the neg remarks.

I don't know how a simple question can get into "my guns bigger than yours thing."
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Met him. Very nice guy.</div></div>

Really. Do you call the people you think are 'very nice guy's liars as well? Here's a hint: usftr = 'Jeff Rorer'.

Each 'string' was a match. Read your match bulletin, or look at the match results; it's rather obvious when you look at them. If you actually *look* at the results for the string you 'won' before spouting off with some smart-a$$ed come back, you'll note that there is a higher score *in that string*. Thats why you got 1st F/TR and he got 'Overal Winner' *for that match*.

Might want to learn to read the match results properly before you go tooting your own horn, or calling other people liars.
</div></div>

memilanuk, I don't know if we have met, but its a fair bet I would'nt like you if we did.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> memilanuk, I don't know if we have met, but its a fair bet I would'nt like you if we did.</div></div>
Classy. I bet you make lots of friends "on the line."
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

I have watched memilaniks posts for many years now, participating at times....and formed an opinion of him.

If he told me I was an asshole, I would be giving myself the "sniff" test.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

sailhertoo - If I had shot a score of 149x7, then I would stick with that load. If my scores dropped after the 1st string, what conditions changed (ie wind picked up; same load)? Have seen several high score shooters drop points the second day due to over-confidence and trying to be too fast. .223 or .308?
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Nathan,

A couple of things.

One, nice shooting on the first 600 yard relay there at Butner. A 149-7 is a good solid score, and put you up there with some of the best in the world (of which Jeff and Monte definitely are). The first relay is almost always a measure of how good your rifle/position and ammo are. The next few relays are when you see just how well you can read the wind. These tend to be somewhat dependent on how lucky you were in drawing a relay, which is why comparing the daily aggregate scores is a more useful indicator of skill level.

Two, you should scan down the classification list as well. The 1st Master is not necessarily the best shooter for a relay, or a day. That 1st day at Butner is a good example. At first glance, it looks like Brad Sauve won the day at 600 yards. If you scan all the way down to sharpshooter classification, you'll notice that the day was actually won by Derek Rodgers. These days, a shooter's classification has more to do with where they normally compete than actual shooter skill. Some of the *wild* ranges out west tend to artificially hold one's classification down.

Three, as an observation, knowing nothing about your experience level, it looks like you had a good day at 600 yards, and had trouble at 1000 in Butner. What this would tell me is that your rifle is right up there for overall accuracy, but the wind is giving you issues. What I'd do is hit some bigger wind ranges and see what happens when a 25 mph wind hits a .308 bullet at 1000 yards. I'm dead serious, this will jump-start the wind reading learning curve like little else. Will you be hitting Nationals in Sacramento come March?

Four, to actually address your original question, I personally feel that 1/2 minute isn't quite enough for F-T/R accuracy. I like to see my test loads (5 round "confirmation" groups) sit closer to 1/3 min. This just gives you that little extra edge in mitigating those pesky vertical leakers.

There are some (literally) world renowned shooters responding here. Most of them are pretty free with whatever info you might be looking for... just depends on how you approach it/them.

Hope this helps (and wasn't too preachy
laugh.gif
)

Darrell Buell
Captain, Team USA F-T/R
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

Thanks for all the good answers and info.

I think your critique is spot on. I need some practice in the wind for sure. I'll keep working on it.

Thanks again
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

I will give this a go. But you have already received some sage advise from top competitors from the US who have competed on a world stage. Something about Bisley this year comes to mind.

½ min accuracy is the minimum for the rifle necessary to start being competitive at any distance. The X ring is 1/2moa and the 10 ring (5 for me) is 1moa. As the score sheet indicates you will see folks clean for score but they don’t always clean the X count and (If my memory services me correctly no one has ever cleaned for score and X at 1,000 or 900). Less then ½ min accuracy and you are now struggling to score a clean at any distance. And this only relates to your rifles ability. When you factor in shooter error and there is always shooter error you have to understand the amount of error that you induce on top of the rifle accuracy and once again you may be struggling just to clean. As others have pointed out the smaller the group your rifle can produce the higher the probability that you and your rifle with be competitive.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Will you be hitting Nationals in Sacramento come March?
Darrell Buell
Captain, Team USA F-T/R </div></div>

I don't think so. Too far and snakey. Why are they having it so close to the last national? What will it be, 6 months apart?

I'm going to try to hit all the ones I can in the east this year though.

Is there a good web site to go to with all the F-Class comps schedules?

Thanks for the great post, and no, not too preachy at all.
wink.gif
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 79M1a-texas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sailhertoo - If I had shot a score of 149x7, then I would stick with that load. If my scores dropped after the 1st string, what conditions changed (ie wind picked up; same load)? Have seen several high score shooters drop points the second day due to over-confidence and trying to be too fast. .223 or .308? </div></div>

308
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailhertoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why are they having it so close to the last national? What will it be, 6 months apart? </div></div>

With the normal date around the beginning of October, there are a number of other events that all fall pretty close together over a six or seven week period - Long Range week @ Camp Perry, the Canadian Long Range Nationals in Ottawa, Spirit of America US Fullbore championship in Raton, and then FCNC. The events are close enough together that most shooters have to pick and choose which ones they can attend. Moving the date of the FCNC was an effort to move the one event that really has any flexibility as to when it could be scheduled since it moves around the country and isn't tied to any one range's schedule. I think the March date may have been a bit earlier than they wanted, but it was what was available at the time. It may have backfired a bit, because as you said, six months isn't much time between matches for vacation time and savings accounts to rebound... and again people end up having to pick and choose.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is there a good web site to go to with all the F-Class comps schedules?
</div></div>

http://usrifleteams.com/

I don't think it has all of the schedules, but it is oriented towards U.S. NRA Long Range shooting, including conventional Prone (Palma & Fullbore) and F-Class. There are a number of match schedules - and results - posted there regularly. Otherwise... probably have to hunt down the website(s) for state rifle & pistol associations in the states you want to shoot in - they should have the schedules, directions, etc. that you need.
 
Re: F-Class t/r and moa....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGosnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The highest score I know of at 1000 yards is 200-15x.</div></div>

Was that F/O or F/TR? Either way, somebody was having a <span style="text-decoration: underline">really</span> good day
wink.gif
 
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