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Facts vs Opinions.

A classic (but @RyanScott is correct).

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the fact that ANYONE at ANY age cannot tell the difference between a fact and an opinion in the examples given if fucking terrifying...and it makes me thankful we are a republic and not a democracy.
 
It's not until we know everything that isn't true, that we know what is true. Awhile ago people installed cameras everywhere because if you saw it, it must have happened. However we know that is not true now. Monkey with video footage and you can make anyone believe anything.
 
How do we know that Obama was born in the US is a fact?

Anyone ever see a birth certificate?

That was not what was at issue in the survey. The question is, “Can someone identify a factual statement from an opinion statement.”

Barack Obama was born in the United States. That is a factual statement. It relies on evidence for its thesis. (Even if the statement is false, it is still not an opinion. It is an incorrect fact.)

I believe Barack Obama was born in the United States. That is an opinion statement. No evidence is necessary.

McCameron is correct. Based on the questions given, it is scary that people cannot identify opinion.
 
the fact that ANYONE at ANY age cannot tell the difference between a fact and an opinion in the examples given if fucking terrifying...and it makes me thankful we are a republic and not a democracy.

ANY age may be pushing it a bit. Children need to be taught that their opinions are just that and not facts. But, anyone over the age of 18 should have been able to correctly identify 100%.
 
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That was not what was at issue in the survey. The question is, “Can someone identify a factual statement from an opinion statement.”

Barack Obama was born in the United States. That is a factual statement. It relies on evidence for its thesis. (Even if the statement is false, it is still not an opinion. It is an incorrect fact.)

I believe Barack Obama was born in the United States. That is an opinion statement. No evidence is necessary.

McCameron is correct. Based on the questions given, it is scary that people cannot identify opinion.

I posed a question completely separate from, but related to, the survey's topic.

You seem to assume too much. And then look like an ass lecturing others.
 
This is beyond ridiculous. i am glad people have a filter to see the fucktardery for what it is. I can't believe how often I hear, "statistics don't lie." I have never even taken a statistics class, and I know thats all they do.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...elling-factual-news-statements-from-opinions/

To be honest, statistics do not lie. Data is data is data. With that being said the statistics can be colored based on how they were collected, the questions asked and how the data is interpreted. Everything that makes statistics look like a lie can be traced back to a person or persons with an agenda.
 
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I posed a question completely separate from, but related to, the survey's topic.

You seem to assume too much. And then look like an ass lecturing others.

The post I quoted reads as if you did not understand the basic premise of the survey. I maintain that the statement in question may be erroneous, but is a factual statement. But, if we are going to revert to slinging insults- which seems to be your MO, "I'm rubber and you're glue..."
 
To be honest, statistics do not lie. Data is data is data. With that being said the statistics can be colored based on how they were collected, the questions asked and how the data is interpreted. Everything that makes statistics look like a lie can be traced back to a person or persons with an agenda.

LOL. Go take a statistics class and come back and talk to me. Most statistics are the bull shit data scraped out of a can.
 
The post I quoted reads as if you did not understand the basic premise of the survey. I maintain that the statement in question may be erroneous, but is a factual statement. But, if we are going to revert to slinging insults- which seems to be your MO, "I'm rubber and you're glue..."

Not being an opinion, does not make something a fact. That is the problem with this survey right off the start. When something is nether opinion nor fact which category of two do you put it in. That is the interesting result from this survey.
 
Actually, a class in "Statistics" teaches one tests to apply to data sets to determine whether or not a perceived effect -- support or not of a hypothesis -- is significant or incidental. Probably the single biggest factor is sample size, but depending on the methodology used in gathering the data set, myriad other metrics come into play. There are a multitude of such tests, and I have personally seen well respected biological researchers run their data set through as many tests as they needed to until they found one that made the support that their data provided to their hypothesis appear to be significant.

Another thing a stats class teaches one is how to read peer reviewed literature critically. There's a lot of bullshit science out there in all genres and a surprising amount of it ends up in journals. The first thing to look at in any study is by whom it was funded. As in all things: follow the $$$

The "statistics" that are referred to daily by opposing sides of any discussion are rarely anything more than raw data sets and someone who has never seen a convincing looking trend in numbers test out to be anecdotal can be easily fooled.
 
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Not being an opinion, does not make something a fact. That is the problem with this survey right off the start. When something is nether opinion nor fact which category of two do you put it in. That is the interesting result from this survey.

Here you go.

Supercorndogs is a woman.- Factual statement- a statement that relies on facts. It relies on evidence. If a genetic test shows that supercorndogs has X and Y chromosomes, the statement is false, but it still relies on evidence. It does not become an opinion.

I think the confusion comes in destinguishing a fact from a factual statement. A fact is the underlying evidence, the statement is what you do with it.

Barack Obama was born in the United States. Factual statement- relies on facts. Evidence- birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii. If that birth certificate proves to be forged, the statement does not become an opinion. It is an incorrect statement that relies on incorrect data, but it is not an opinion.

Beyond confusion, I think a more important issue is affirmation bias. If one does not trust the veracity of a factual statement, one is more likely to call that statement an opinion. Corollarily, if someone strongly holds the same belief expressed in an opinion statement, that person is more likely to call that statement a factual statement.

I spent a good percentage of my graduate career making opinion appear to be fact- the discussion and conclusion sections of any scholarly article are almost entirely opinion. The facts are in the observations and results sections.
 
Actually, a class in "Statistics" teaches one tests to apply to data sets to determine whether or not a perceived effect -- support or not of a hypothesis -- is significant or incidental. Probably the single biggest factor is sample size, but depending on the methodology used in gathering the data set, myriad other metrics come into play. There are a multitude of such tests, and I have personally seen well respected biological researchers run their data set through as many tests as they needed to until they found one that made the support that their data provided to their hypothesis appear to be significant.

Another thing a stats class teaches one is how to read peer reviewed literature critically. There's a lot of bullshit science out there in all genres and a surprising amount of it ends up in journals. The first thing to look at in any study is by whom it was funded. As in all things: follow the $$$

The "statistics" that are referred to daily by opposing sides of any discussion are rarely anything more than raw data sets and someone who has never seen a convincing looking trend in numbers test out to be anecdotal can be easily fooled.
A good grounding in statistics also teaches you how to choose data sets to support a given opinion. You can also learn what words to use to give that opinion more gravitas. For example, what is the statistical definition of significant? How does that definition compare to the definition of substantial? What is the definition of significant understood by the general population?
 
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Here you go.

Supercorndogs is a woman.- Factual statement- a statement that relies on facts. It relies on evidence. If a genetic test shows that supercorndogs has X and Y chromosomes, the statement is false, but it still relies on evidence. It does not become an opinion.

I think the confusion comes in destinguishing a fact from a factual statement. A fact is the underlying evidence, the statement is what you do with it.

Barack Obama was born in the United States. Factual statement- relies on facts. Evidence- birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii. If that birth certificate proves to be forged, the statement does not become an opinion. It is an incorrect statement that relies on incorrect data, but it is not an opinion.

Beyond confusion, I think a more important issue is affirmation bias. If one does not trust the veracity of a factual statement, one is more likely to call that statement an opinion. Corollarily, if someone strongly holds the same belief expressed in an opinion statement, that person is more likely to call that statement a factual statement.

I spent a good percentage of my graduate career making opinion appear to be fact- the discussion and conclusion sections of any scholarly article are almost entirely opinion. The facts are in the observations and results sections.

You are missing the point, and trying to explain something I understand. I suppose the thread title should be, "those lying statistics." They chose those questions for the exact reasons listed in your comment about confirmation bias. Because they know people will put a false factual statement in opinion and an opinion statement that is fact in the wrong place. I think its interesting, the depths they go to come up with these hit pieces, and the way they lay things out to get their wanted results.

I think you are missing or ignoring the point of the survey, and IMO it was not for the purpose listed. Or maybe the world is a game of checkers and I am looking at it wrong.
 
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I think that it's important to recognize a blurred line between facts and opinions. For instance, I can say that HRC is a lying bitch. That is my opinion, yes, but if you examine the available data you can conclude that it is also a indisputable truth. She lies. She is a female dog. Therefore: fact.

Another: Amy Schumer is a fat slut. My opinion. But if we analyze her existence against accepted societal norms we see that it is also a factual statement. Indeed, she is by her own admission a fat slut.

So occasionally, labeling a statement as fact or opinion is not so easy, even if using strictly objective criterion.
 
You are missing the point, and trying to explain something I understand. I suppose the thread title should be, "those lying statistics." They chose those questions for the exact reasons listed in your comment about confirmation bias. Because they know people will put a false factual statement in opinion and an opinion statement that is fact in the wrong place. I think its interesting, the depths they go to come up with these hit pieces, and the way they lay things out to get their wanted results.

I think you are missing or ignoring the point of the survey, and IMO it was not for the purpose listed. Or maybe the world is a game of checkers and I am looking at it wrong.

Regardless of the question, falling prey to confirmation bias is a failure to identify opinion.

Most people will read the title of the article and move on, never seeing what questions were asked. I’ve not looked, and could well be wrong, but would surmise that the left/right split is greater along th fault separating self identifying democrats from self identifying republicans than it is between 18-49 and 50-above. The questions were asked- I would guess- because they are related to current events, cover areas of strong disagreement, play into the “fake news” cycle from both sides of the isle, and are strongly influenced by confirmation bias. Yes, the people that authored the survey were testing confirmation bias. In the absence of confirmation bias the difference between fact (or observation based statements) and opinion are- literally- night and day. “The Effects of Age on Confirmation Bias” sounds like a title for a journal article- just what you need to have it NOT read.

One more example on why the questions may have been chosen.

3 inches of rain fell in Hallestville Texas over the weekend.
Rainy days are the worst days.

7000 immigrants are currently making their way toward the southern border of the United States.
Immigration is the biggest issue facing our nation today.

There are 4 statements that you might hear on the news. Of those, 2 are factual statements and 2 are opinion statements. But, depending upon your own bias, one of those opinions look more like a fact than the other.

Then again, maybe I’m just slow. Perhaps the authors picked those questions to trick people into saying that things that are untrue actually are. It’s just a giant conspiracy to get old people to say that BO was born in Hawaii. I just cannot see how this is such an issue to understand. Then again, I’m younger than 50 and have never been a conspiracy theorist.

I looked at the premise of the survey and dusted off my test taking strategies. Which statements rely on quantifiable data? Which statements rely on observables? Those are factual statements. Which statements rely on hyperbole, subjective adjectives, or are not quantifiable? Those are opinion statements. What each of the statements say is irrelavent to the test.
 
I think that it's important to recognize a blurred line between facts and opinions. For instance, I can say that HRC is a lying bitch. That is my opinion, yes, but if you examine the available data you can conclude that it is also a indisputable truth. She lies. She is a female dog. Therefore: fact.

Another: Amy Schumer is a fat slut. My opinion. But if we analyze her existence against accepted societal norms we see that it is also a factual statement. Indeed, she is by her own admission a fat slut.

So occasionally, labeling a statement as fact or opinion is not so easy, even if using strictly objective criterion.

Hillary- Lying Bitch. Liar is open to interpretation as truth is based on perception. Bitch is also based on perception as personality traits are perceived differently by different people. This is obviously an opinion statement. However, if you said, "Hillary Clinton made erroneous statements about "X event" and made covert attempts to hide these intentional erroneous statements. And, there is documented evidence of her kicking puppies and taking candy from children..." then, you have a factual statement.

Amy Schumer- Fat Slut- Fat is not quantifiable. What is fat to one person is skinny to another. My svelt 5'11" 154 lb frame is skinny compared to many (most) of the other guys at the BJJ gym, but I look positively porky next to the guy that was the TA for my organic chem lab (fuck that was over 20 years ago). Likewise, mores on sexual promiscuity are fluid and what is prudish to one is scandalous to another. Amy Schumer is a fat slut is also obviously an opinion statement. However, if you said "Amy Schumer's body fat % is well above the AMA guidelines for a healthy adult and her own comedy routine suggests her sexual promiscuity is well outside the bounds of the average American, as noted in May 2018 issue of The American Journal of Slutty Fucky Time" now you have a factual statement.
 
Regardless of the question, falling prey to confirmation bias is a failure to identify opinion.

Most people will read the title of the article and move on, never seeing what questions were asked. I’ve not looked, and could well be wrong, but would surmise that the left/right split is greater along th fault separating self identifying democrats from self identifying republicans than it is between 18-49 and 50-above. The questions were asked- I would guess- because they are related to current events, cover areas of strong disagreement, play into the “fake news” cycle from both sides of the isle, and are strongly influenced by confirmation bias. Yes, the people that authored the survey were testing confirmation bias. In the absence of confirmation bias the difference between fact (or observation based statements) and opinion are- literally- night and day. “The Effects of Age on Confirmation Bias” sounds like a title for a journal article- just what you need to have it NOT read.

One more example on why the questions may have been chosen.

3 inches of rain fell in Hallestville Texas over the weekend.
Rainy days are the worst days.

7000 immigrants are currently making their way toward the southern border of the United States.
Immigration is the biggest issue facing our nation today.

There are 4 statements that you might hear on the news. Of those, 2 are factual statements and 2 are opinion statements. But, depending upon your own bias, one of those opinions look more like a fact than the other.

Then again, maybe I’m just slow. Perhaps the authors picked those questions to trick people into saying that things that are untrue actually are. It’s just a giant conspiracy to get old people to say that BO was born in Hawaii. I just cannot see how this is such an issue to understand. Then again, I’m younger than 50 and have never been a conspiracy theorist.

I looked at the premise of the survey and dusted off my test taking strategies. Which statements rely on quantifiable data? Which statements rely on observables? Those are factual statements. Which statements rely on hyperbole, subjective adjectives, or are not quantifiable? Those are opinion statements. What each of the statements say is irrelavent to the test.

I like what you did there. I see you did get my point. You pretty much restated it in the first paragraph. Why you put some crazy shit at the end as though it was mine is beyond me.
 
LOL. Go take a statistics class and come back and talk to me. Most statistics are the bull shit data scraped out of a can.

You assume to know me and you don't. I have take statistics classes and used them a lot in my job. Okay, try again. Statistics are not bull shit but people all to often think they are because the stats do not agree with someone perspective/narrative or they do not understand statistics.
 
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I agree, but what if the "factual statement" is untrue?
"What are you going to do now, Wizard?"
greatgoblin.jpg

Well, it is easy enough to determine if the statement is "untrue", inaccurate or misleading. If you do not have any preconceived bias going into the analysis the data can prove or disprove the hypothesis, which would be the "factual" statement you referred to. BUT as Mooncake pointed out, most of the stats referred to in current articles or on the news are raw data and have been manipulated.
 
Hillary- Lying Bitch. Liar is open to interpretation as truth is based on perception. Bitch is also based on perception as personality traits are perceived differently by different people. This is obviously an opinion statement. However, if you said, "Hillary Clinton made erroneous statements about "X event" and made covert attempts to hide these intentional erroneous statements. And, there is documented evidence of her kicking puppies and taking candy from children..." then, you have a factual statement.

Amy Schumer- Fat Slut- Fat is not quantifiable. What is fat to one person is skinny to another. My svelt 5'11" 154 lb frame is skinny compared to many (most) of the other guys at the BJJ gym, but I look positively porky next to the guy that was the TA for my organic chem lab (fuck that was over 20 years ago). Likewise, mores on sexual promiscuity are fluid and what is prudish to one is scandalous to another. Amy Schumer is a fat slut is also obviously an opinion statement. However, if you said "Amy Schumer's body fat % is well above the AMA guidelines for a healthy adult and her own comedy routine suggests her sexual promiscuity is well outside the bounds of the average American, as noted in May 2018 issue of The American Journal of Slutty Fucky Time" now you have a factual statement.

Sorry, Jack, them's facts.
 
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess anything you want it to say...

Very few people really grasp facts and how they are established. Correlative trends do not establish facts, yet the media totes them as such on a daily basis.