No double spring?
Really like the dual spring on the M45A1 but might only be the “feeling” in difference of shooting more Commander than full size.
- Thread starter Toftwo
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Really like the dual spring on the M45A1 but might only be the “feeling” in difference of shooting more Commander than full size.
Nope, but they’re fairly stout. I think 22lbs springs. Probably not as evolved as a double spring….
A Baer guy pops up on this thread with his recollection of configuration and timing for the original SRPs.
One of those is that they did a bunch of different things, from whole guns to just top end replacements to just barrels and... the barrel thing seems interesting with Skunk's comment.
One of those is that they did a bunch of different things, from whole guns to just top end replacements to just barrels and... the barrel thing seems interesting with Skunk's comment.
That’s right. As far as I’ve been told, the Bureau Models and Professionals were originally purchase as slick bottom guns (no light rail). When the barrel issue surfaced, the lower receivers and barrels were replaced and “LR” was added to the serial. These guns have a mismatch of slide cut and end of frame. As pictured….
The later purchase guns, the Operators, were purchased as railed guns and the slides had ball-end milling to match the lower receivers.
Wow that’s a bit of history. Any idea what year they went to ramped barrels?
No idea. I didn’t start carrying these things until about 2012 and they had already been modified by then. The SWAT program went back to a Glock 17 in about 2015-2016.
But it's an outdated design, just a piece of history, no longer relevant.
One of last things I did before getting fired was go to FBI range at Devens and scavenge as much 9mm brass as I could get out of their brass barrel.
There was a good quantity of .45 also but that wasn't my goal that rainy day.
Hmmm, I heard same about ruptured Barstow barrels in MEUSOC 1911’s? Here is a picture of one barrel from a 2112 that I know notice the weapons ser number 4007 on top of the chamber and the faint PWS on the side.
When the barrels fail/failed they just replace it with another one and drive on.
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Pretty obvious that the old PPC course of fire is no longer used. The 4x4's cut right off.
There have been at least three pistol qual courses (PQC’s) over the course of the last ten years, and there is a SWAT PQC. I think the SWAT PQC calls for the barricade, but I’ve never shot it that way and haven’t seen barricades used outside the Academy at all. I’ve also not fired on a range outside Quantico where the turning targets still work…
Qual courses are just administrative requirements anyhow. Training is a different animal altogether.
I’m not familiar with the PPC course you reference..
It was a FBI developed cof in the 40's and turned into an NRA competition course. Obviously not relevant anymore.
blog.krtraining.com
Historical Handgun – more on the 1945 FBI course of fire – Notes from KR
Over the past year I’ve been developing a new course for KR Training, Historical Handgun, that teaches the history & evolution of defensive handgun skills. Part of that effort has been searching for old handgun qualification courses of fire, and shooting them using the techniques and equipment...
blog.krtraining.com The PPC Course was a 150 rd. Course fired at 7,15, 25 and 50 yards. Shot double action with the revolver with barricades at 25 and 50 yards. Also required shooting right and left handed on the barricades. As I remember there were 5 classes; Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, Master and Hi Master. The ILL. Police Assn shot for many years a 48 shot course which was shot by many police departments. I competed 11 years with the IPA winning the Top Gun in ‘95. Great fun!
No FBI provenance, but my pseudo-Clones. Top rifle was a police trade in I picked up fully painted and was happy to find the urban Camo pattern underneath. Bottom rifle is a mid 80’s model 70 built by JK Cloward. Topped with a Kahles ZF69.
A coyote model is a short action mostly all 70's are long action
Short actions started being produced in 1985 in push feed only. The Coyote (2000~ish) model can be one of two short actions. That action handles WSM cartridges which is roomy, but the same length as the one that handles all .308 based cases (or close proximity). The other 'shorter' action is the one that handles all WSSM cartridges.
You are correct sir. I have a couple WSM's ( 7 & 300) and still have a 25 WSSM.
can you find brass for the 25?
Pre covid it was fairly easy to find. Not so much these days. The factory 120 power point ammo is easier to find.
This thread needs more pictures!
ask and ye shall receive!!!
Oh and… yes!!!
Sirhr
PS... I mean, if you are going to have a Mona Lisa Avatar... a Louvre picture is the least I can do! ;-)
After Skunk built the clone for his retired bud, February 2022, I started gathering parts to do the same for my retired bud (and, maybe me also...)
First thing I got was a short 70 action. Then a barrel, then a short 700 action, then a 3.5-10 mildot, then a second 3.5-10 mildot. Got the matte mount and a set of matte rings. Didn't have much luck with stocks, yet, wasn't ready to order from McMillan. Yet...
Today, is much closer, still working out the stock thing. It's not perfect. But, closer and shootable...
Bud would probably take it, as is, but, he can't have it yet...
First thing I got was a short 70 action. Then a barrel, then a short 700 action, then a 3.5-10 mildot, then a second 3.5-10 mildot. Got the matte mount and a set of matte rings. Didn't have much luck with stocks, yet, wasn't ready to order from McMillan. Yet...
Today, is much closer, still working out the stock thing. It's not perfect. But, closer and shootable...
Bud would probably take it, as is, but, he can't have it yet...
Barrel details?
Factory remington threaded barrel.
@j-huskey any idea what would be the best mid 80’s era scope base for this? I bought a badger SA without measuring, and it’s definitely not a SA (even though it’s a 308). I have a Leupold 3.5-10x40 that is begging to go on the rifle.
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That's a clip slotted long action model 70 in 308.
The Redfield or leupold long action 70 base should fit as long as it's a 4 hole base. The right base would only take one screw on the rear bc the clip slot ate the 4th hole location. That receiver has extra holes drilled in it.
Will post the correct hole spacing in the morning.
The Redfield or leupold long action 70 base should fit as long as it's a 4 hole base. The right base would only take one screw on the rear bc the clip slot ate the 4th hole location. That receiver has extra holes drilled in it.
Will post the correct hole spacing in the morning.
65-66-67 palma rifle has the clip slots like that. It's specific to that action, is a standard long action but has the additional clip slot. Not describing it just right, will have to dig mine out to get photos to show yall the differences.
Things intruded this a.m.. still on the agenda.
Things intruded this a.m.. still on the agenda.
A base pic with ruler
This is a custom base, made off a nightforce/badger base dimension for a 1965 and later long action model 70. It has the additional hole in the middle rear to fit clip slotted 3006 target models.
It also fits the pre-64 model 70's.
This is a custom base, made off a nightforce/badger base dimension for a 1965 and later long action model 70. It has the additional hole in the middle rear to fit clip slotted 3006 target models.
It also fits the pre-64 model 70's.
This is a rifle like yours, above a standard long action 70 without clipslot.
Separately w/ base beside them.
Separately w/ base beside them.
The below is for the short action, not want this one... no...
If you can find the Leupold or Redfield base in matte finish, it will match the one on FBI model 70's.
All right, that pretty much spells it out perfectly. Thanks for the pictures as well. I sat down and measured approximate spacing between the holes last night (all referenced the the rear-most hole:
This continues to be one of my all time favorite threads!
This continues to be one of my all time favorite threads!
Very cool thread!
I have a couple clip-slotted Winchesters (National Match XTC style, no FBI history), and scope mounting was a little more work. 70 Pre-war with clip slot has a special order rail from Badger.
Win 70 Short actions have used one piece rails, with just one attachment used in rear due to clip slot.
Looking at the 3 hole pictures, I think I can have an additional hole drilled & tapped between the rear mounting hole & slip slot for more stability.....
I have a couple clip-slotted Winchesters (National Match XTC style, no FBI history), and scope mounting was a little more work. 70 Pre-war with clip slot has a special order rail from Badger.
Win 70 Short actions have used one piece rails, with just one attachment used in rear due to clip slot.
Looking at the 3 hole pictures, I think I can have an additional hole drilled & tapped between the rear mounting hole & slip slot for more stability.....
You can add a hole, too easy, and customize a base to fit it by adding a hole to it too. Zero problems.
I've got an older clip slotted Winchester M70 NM model also. Note that the older clip slotted 70's use a Model 70 H&H magnum size base. I bought one from EGW when I got my rifle.
This is the one that fit mine...
Winchester Model 70 Picatinny Rail HH .437 Rear 20 MOA
Save 10% on a set of Keystone Rings with this rail and get free 2-Day shipping!*Mounting Hardware is IncludedThis mount fits:Winchester 70 H&H .437 Rear SpreadWe recommend measuring the hole spacing in your receiver to confirm it matches with the dimensions we have published.*The Keystone Ring...
www.egwguns.com 
I have a Post-64 clip slot 30-06 (1 rear scope base screw) and a couple different options for the Leupold scope sitting around doing nothing. This thread has got me thinking I should build one of these FBI clones, but where to get a stock? Are you ordering them from McMillan, or managing to find used ones someplace...
DW
DW
Is that for an HTG, or an A5?
Did they/FBI only use the 3.5-10 VXIII's? Were the 4.5-14 w/AO tactical's ever used?
DeltaWhiskey that is a very nice rifle!
I have similar looking clip-slotted early Classic that was rebarreled to 6.5x55 (long story) ; it's also fun to shoot the wood stocked ones sometimes....
I have similar looking clip-slotted early Classic that was rebarreled to 6.5x55 (long story) ; it's also fun to shoot the wood stocked ones sometimes....
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Edited due to follow on clarifying comments.
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