I have read that many do not like to use Federal brass because it is "too soft" and it seems that the standard is Winchester brass. I was recently resizing a bunch of brass all fired from my lr308. On hand I had 40 Federal cartridge, 50 hornady match, and 50 winchester. While I found that the winchester fed smoothly into my resizing die (RCBS 308win FL) the federal brass took substantially more force to size Hornady took more force than the winchester but less than the federal. Incidentally, half of the winchester brass were unfired and they fed into the resizing die so effortlessly that gravity on the handle was sufficient force until I hit the cam over spot. I weighed one cartridge from each manufacturer and found that the Federal weighed 177.3 gr, the Hornady weighed 165.1 gr, and the Winchester weighed 157.4 gr. Additionally, I measured the neck diameter and the case head diameter for the three cases. After resizing to a neck inside diameter of 0.305 for all cases, the Federal measurements were (0.3365, 0.467), the hornady (0.3345, 0.466) and the winchester (0.331, 0.463). Does Winchester brass tend to run this much smaller than the book specs for this cartridge? Given the above, what would you use? This is not for competition and I will not be further sorting the brass into lots of 1/10 gr as doing that with the beam balance that I have is a cast-iron pain. While it is more expensive the other option is to spring for a pile of Lapua brass...
- Thread starter hlee
- Start date
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
I've heard the same things about the federal too. I have collected a pile of 1x .308 federal but haven't loaded it yet.
I've shot lots of Win .308 and if I load hot I get lots of loose pockets and have to scrap it. I've come into hundreds of the Hornady Match .308 1x fired for cheap. Just starting to load it, I hope the pockets hang in there longer.
Edit: All this shot from my home assembled semi.
I've heard the same things about the federal too. I have collected a pile of 1x .308 federal but haven't loaded it yet.
I've shot lots of Win .308 and if I load hot I get lots of loose pockets and have to scrap it. I've come into hundreds of the Hornady Match .308 1x fired for cheap. Just starting to load it, I hope the pockets hang in there longer.
Edit: All this shot from my home assembled semi.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
I used to reload federal and Winchester 308 brass. I had mixed results with both. I now run Lapua brass and have been much happier. Primer pockets remain tight and no need to trim after 5 firings. I use a healthy charge of varget under a 175 smk going 2750 fps. No pressure signs on any of the brass.
I used to reload federal and Winchester 308 brass. I had mixed results with both. I now run Lapua brass and have been much happier. Primer pockets remain tight and no need to trim after 5 firings. I use a healthy charge of varget under a 175 smk going 2750 fps. No pressure signs on any of the brass.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
This^^^^. If you are recovering your brass. In hunting(or fighting zombies) use the cheaper. I have a Franklin arsenal digital(cheap!) for weighing brass. Super easy.
This^^^^. If you are recovering your brass. In hunting(or fighting zombies) use the cheaper. I have a Franklin arsenal digital(cheap!) for weighing brass. Super easy.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
I've been fortunate to collect a lifetime supply of Federal brass at no cost, so I do load the Federal 308 GMM brass. With the newer lots with the blue primer sealant, I get over 6+ loadings out of the brass. Some of the older lots of Federal brass I've loaded, I got only 2-3 firings before the primer pocket gave out, but the newer brass seems better.
Federal brass is thicker all around than Hornady or Winchester as you found out by weighing the brass. If you are going to buy new factory fresh brass, Winchester is the best of the three with Hornady a close second. I would not purchase new Federal cases.
Once fired Federal GMM brass (in bolt guns) is okay to buy if you find it at a reasonable price @ about .15¢ per case, but I wouldn't pay much above that. Sometimes you can find Winchester or Hornady once fired brass for .20¢-.25¢ per case, that would be worth it. Again, If you're going to buy new cases, buy Winchester, unless you want to go all out and buy Lapua cases.
I've been fortunate to collect a lifetime supply of Federal brass at no cost, so I do load the Federal 308 GMM brass. With the newer lots with the blue primer sealant, I get over 6+ loadings out of the brass. Some of the older lots of Federal brass I've loaded, I got only 2-3 firings before the primer pocket gave out, but the newer brass seems better.
Federal brass is thicker all around than Hornady or Winchester as you found out by weighing the brass. If you are going to buy new factory fresh brass, Winchester is the best of the three with Hornady a close second. I would not purchase new Federal cases.
Once fired Federal GMM brass (in bolt guns) is okay to buy if you find it at a reasonable price @ about .15¢ per case, but I wouldn't pay much above that. Sometimes you can find Winchester or Hornady once fired brass for .20¢-.25¢ per case, that would be worth it. Again, If you're going to buy new cases, buy Winchester, unless you want to go all out and buy Lapua cases.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
Win brass has more powder capacity.... Correct me if wrong. But prep with lapua is minimum to none.
My personal opinion is win is just as good as lapua for 2 or 3 firings. That's when lapua brass really makes it's price tag worth it. Doesn't harden nearly what win does and primer pockets are much more intact. IMHO annealing win brass is a hell of ALOT easier than lapua when using the home made torch method bc win brass shows the "color change " ALOT better. I still haven't nailed down annealing lapua brass
Win brass has more powder capacity.... Correct me if wrong. But prep with lapua is minimum to none.
My personal opinion is win is just as good as lapua for 2 or 3 firings. That's when lapua brass really makes it's price tag worth it. Doesn't harden nearly what win does and primer pockets are much more intact. IMHO annealing win brass is a hell of ALOT easier than lapua when using the home made torch method bc win brass shows the "color change " ALOT better. I still haven't nailed down annealing lapua brass
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
Compared to other options, Federal is not a great choice. It has inconsistent thickness, burred flash holes that are sometimes punched off-center. The primer pockets loosen quickly (in my opinion, that is because they are sized on the large size, not because the brass is soft, but I haven't measured), and because the brass is so thick, it has less powder capacity.
If you are sitting on a bunch of it, you could use it. You can fix the flash hole problems with a deburrer and through culling brass. You can fix the neck thickness issue by turning the neck, but then you have all of this prep into something you are only going to get about 5 or 6 loads out of anyway.
If you are sitting on a mound of it, it would be great for a gas gun, where none of the above matter and gas gun brass gets beat up anyway.
If you care about the above, then you are better off selling it and getting better brass.
Lapua is the most consistent and some of the toughest if not the toughest out there.
Winny will get you the most case capacity and the flash holes and neck thickness can be fixed to give you a great overall option with the most case capacity available.
Compared to other options, Federal is not a great choice. It has inconsistent thickness, burred flash holes that are sometimes punched off-center. The primer pockets loosen quickly (in my opinion, that is because they are sized on the large size, not because the brass is soft, but I haven't measured), and because the brass is so thick, it has less powder capacity.
If you are sitting on a bunch of it, you could use it. You can fix the flash hole problems with a deburrer and through culling brass. You can fix the neck thickness issue by turning the neck, but then you have all of this prep into something you are only going to get about 5 or 6 loads out of anyway.
If you are sitting on a mound of it, it would be great for a gas gun, where none of the above matter and gas gun brass gets beat up anyway.
If you care about the above, then you are better off selling it and getting better brass.
Lapua is the most consistent and some of the toughest if not the toughest out there.
Winny will get you the most case capacity and the flash holes and neck thickness can be fixed to give you a great overall option with the most case capacity available.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
The brass (at the neck) is .0015" thicker on Federal cases than Winchester. This is good to know, because it affects your neck tension. That's one of the main reasons I prefer the Redding S-Type (bushing) dies.
You can adjust your neck tension for cases that have different neck thickness.
- Hornady brass is .0005" thicker (at the neck) than Winchester.
- Feredal and Lapua are the same.
- Remington is .001" thicker than Winchester.
These dimensions are not written in stone, but it usually is correct. You should always measure to be sure. There's no need to crimp if you adjust for brass thickness.
The brass (at the neck) is .0015" thicker on Federal cases than Winchester. This is good to know, because it affects your neck tension. That's one of the main reasons I prefer the Redding S-Type (bushing) dies.
You can adjust your neck tension for cases that have different neck thickness.
- Hornady brass is .0005" thicker (at the neck) than Winchester.
- Feredal and Lapua are the same.
- Remington is .001" thicker than Winchester.
These dimensions are not written in stone, but it usually is correct. You should always measure to be sure. There's no need to crimp if you adjust for brass thickness.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
Not trying to thread hijack but I have been lurking on the hide's relaoding section since I'm about to start reloading myself for a .308 bolt gun.
I have a ton of FC (FGGM) and LC match brass. Since this thread talked about FC, have you guys had any experience with "LC Match"?
Also, when do you know when your primer pocket gives out?
Again, I apologize for the newb question and if you feel like this doesn't belong in this thread, I can start a new one.
thanks,
Not trying to thread hijack but I have been lurking on the hide's relaoding section since I'm about to start reloading myself for a .308 bolt gun.
I have a ton of FC (FGGM) and LC match brass. Since this thread talked about FC, have you guys had any experience with "LC Match"?
Also, when do you know when your primer pocket gives out?
Again, I apologize for the newb question and if you feel like this doesn't belong in this thread, I can start a new one.
thanks,
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
I also using .308 Federal primed brass for practise my F-TR.
But for competition, I would remain with Lapua.
Where is the best supplier who sell commercial once fired brass (Finished Processed and Primed) in bulk? I would prefer it for traning.
I also using .308 Federal primed brass for practise my F-TR.
But for competition, I would remain with Lapua.
Where is the best supplier who sell commercial once fired brass (Finished Processed and Primed) in bulk? I would prefer it for traning.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
I've used most of my case of Winchester (3750 cases) 308 brass. I get 20 reloads out of brass in my palma rifle. I minimum full length resize, neck bushing only. I've done several test comparing Lapua & Federal to the Winchester and well prepped Winchester has the edge.
I've used most of my case of Winchester (3750 cases) 308 brass. I get 20 reloads out of brass in my palma rifle. I minimum full length resize, neck bushing only. I've done several test comparing Lapua & Federal to the Winchester and well prepped Winchester has the edge.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
I've had nothing but problems with federal brass, zero with Winchester in my Super Match M1A.
I ended up with several thousand once fired pieces of federal brass when I retired from the NG. Found it wouldn't work. Mostly I pulled the necks off, or they seperated right below the shoulder. It doesn't do that with Winchester or LC brass.
It's not a headspace problem, I constantly check the HS of my NMC guns.
I can shoot it in my Rem Bolt gun.
Ended up giving it to a local guard unit as turn in brass.
I do have to resize Win Brass. Haven't noticed it in a 308 but in 223 about 1/3 of WW brass wont chamber in my 5.56 Mann Device (that I use to test ammo. I have to run my new 223 Win brass through a SB die to get it to work.
No sir, I have no use for federal brass.
I've had nothing but problems with federal brass, zero with Winchester in my Super Match M1A.
I ended up with several thousand once fired pieces of federal brass when I retired from the NG. Found it wouldn't work. Mostly I pulled the necks off, or they seperated right below the shoulder. It doesn't do that with Winchester or LC brass.
It's not a headspace problem, I constantly check the HS of my NMC guns.
I can shoot it in my Rem Bolt gun.
Ended up giving it to a local guard unit as turn in brass.
I do have to resize Win Brass. Haven't noticed it in a 308 but in 223 about 1/3 of WW brass wont chamber in my 5.56 Mann Device (that I use to test ammo. I have to run my new 223 Win brass through a SB die to get it to work.
No sir, I have no use for federal brass.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
Boy, this thread isn't good news
I just happened into a bunch of FC .260 brass I was going to try in my new .260 barrel. But from the sounds of it, I may not want to, or at least not hope for much.
Any thoughts?
dlouie87, I have a ton of LC match .308 brass, love it and haven't had a single problem with it.
Boy, this thread isn't good news
Any thoughts?
dlouie87, I have a ton of LC match .308 brass, love it and haven't had a single problem with it.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
ColdBoreMiracle .......
I have had the very best results with Lapua brass.
(However, it's quite expensive)
Federal cases are a close second choice.
(However, it's only avilable as used brass)
Winchester is my third choice.
(There's no need to look beyond that)
ColdBoreMiracle .......
I have had the very best results with Lapua brass.
(However, it's quite expensive)
Federal cases are a close second choice.
(However, it's only avilable as used brass)
Winchester is my third choice.
(There's no need to look beyond that)
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
Thanks, I'll give this FC a chance, and if it doesn't give the results I'm looking for, then I've got a bunch of brand new .243 Winny brass thats gonna get two sextied.
Thanks, I'll give this FC a chance, and if it doesn't give the results I'm looking for, then I've got a bunch of brand new .243 Winny brass thats gonna get two sextied.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
Dumb question here, and maybe out of context, but why dos Federal have such a bad following?
When I started loading in the mid 80's it was the cadillac of brass. What went wrong?
I still have a good supply of it in various sizes.
Dumb question here, and maybe out of context, but why dos Federal have such a bad following?
When I started loading in the mid 80's it was the cadillac of brass. What went wrong?
I still have a good supply of it in various sizes.
Re: Federal versus Winchester Brass in .308win
FC is good brass. I just cant get as many reloads as with RP, WW, or Lapua.
FC is good brass. I just cant get as many reloads as with RP, WW, or Lapua.
