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Field target rifle vs PRS rifle

As mentioned over the last 10 yrs Id say that "PRS" style has gone from field ish to straight PRS

PRS - stay in squads. see everyone shoot. share wind and gear and ideas to attack the target array. usually some awkward prop to shoot off of with spelled out restrictions on gear allowed and positions allowed.
EX: PRS, NRL, RTC, NRL 22, etc etc


Field - Truly individual. Blind stages. Usually unknown ranges but sometimes known. Find, range shoot on your own. No sharing gear or wind. Usually travel at a min a mile during a day and up to 10 miles a day. Generally no gear/position restrictions other than staying in a certain area ie arms length from blue dot etc. Mostly team matches but some individual. Usually 3 day matches.
EX: Competition Dynamics, NRL Hunter, Team Sniper Challenge, etc etc

It could almost be argued field matches require more gear. Cant borrow as you are on your own. Cant run back to your truck as you are 2 miles in. Usually want to stay lighter but not always a problem.

If youve shot both they are quite different. Ive seen the best shooter in the country struggle at field matches (JV). I do quite well in field matches and have never won a 2-day PRS/NRL match. I would prob argue the competition is stiffer in a PRS/NRL match since there are usually over 100 people and field matches are usually team matches and its darn hard to get a partner you can gel with. (Not all are team, Steel Safari is the longest running match I believe in the country. its individual)

any other questions?

The vortex extreme sniper challenge and Mammoth are 30+ mile hiking/shooting events. Ive gone from 16-14-12 lb rifles there. A 60 lb pack gets old quick. BOTC is a event that rewards score on time finished early (ea min is a pt that is scaled on hit percentage) so a 12-14 lb rifle is a big deal. Team safari is 3-5 miles for the weekend and slow paced (time starts when you reach the stage) so a heavy rifle isnt a problem.


hashtagfirstworldproblems





Regards
DT
 

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This rifle is just my normal NRL rig put into an XLR element magnesium stock (6 lbs lighter). The only problem, and why I added the weights toward the rear, is its very front heavy. this match required heavy running, but also a high round count so needed a thicker barrel. the whole "long" course has 4 stages and you have an hour to complete.


GL
DT
 
The original post starts by mentioning Field Target rifles. Then in the same post switches to Field Rifle. I am going to assume he is talking about Field Rifles, or more to the point Hunting Rifles. Reason I say this is because as I understand it, Field Target Rifles are airguns.

If this is indeed the case then Hunting Rifles can differ substantially from PRS rifles in weight and inherent accuracy. There is no way that an apples to apples quality 7-11 pound Field Rifle with a pencil barrel is going to be as accurate as an 18-25 pound PRS rifle.

That said the tradeoffs can be huge, depending on the kind of hunt. If hunting from a blind on the ground a half mile from your truck at sea level then take the PRS rifle and a tripod.

However, if you are hunting out West in the Cascades and the clear cut is a 1.5 hour climb up a logging road with snow up to your knees, and then another climb to the rocky top before you even start your hunt, a PRS rifle is not going to work. Especially if you're a sea level critter like me.

I did the latter more than once in the WA Cascades ~40 years ago, I was in my late 20's in the best shape of my life - 3 days a week playing racquetball and lifting weights. The first time I went out I took my Rem 700 BDL in .308 and a backpack with all kinds of stuff. around 8.5 pounds for the rifle (not including scope) and ~35 pounds overall.

The next time, a year later, I took a Weatherby .243 - 6 pound rifle, a bottle of water, 2 chocolate bars, knife, compass, matches and 6 extra rounds in my pocket. Lesson learned....
 
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Substitute the word "field" for "duty."

If you do that, i'll take a bone factory AT or AW over anything else, including my own AT that is far from factory.
What about the AT do you think is better for a Duty rifle?

Functionally all AIs are effectively the same with the only difference being the chassis.
What about the AT/AW chassis do you think makes it the dogs bollocks of duty rifles?

Not a trick question.
I'm finding it interesting getting different opinions on this topic.
 
What about the AT do you think is better for a Duty rifle?

Functionally all AIs are effectively the same with the only difference being the chassis.
What about the AT/AW chassis do you think makes it the dogs bollocks of duty rifles?

Not a trick question.
I'm finding it interesting getting different opinions on this topic.

Eh.. mainly being bonded and the plastics. Quieter and warmer come to mind when considering the exterior material of the chassis plus the AT/AW has a very proven history of being the most complete precision weapon in that type situation. The factory AI trigger is IMO, the best more reliable trigger on earth. Not necessarily for competition use but for basically anything else.

Nothing that hasn't been mentioned yet.

An AI is an AI but they all have their respective places otherwise we would all be shooting AWs still and the others wouldnt exist.
 
Eh.. mainly being bonded and the plastics. Quieter and warmer come to mind when considering the exterior material of the chassis plus the AT/AW has a very proven history of being the most complete precision weapon in that type situation. The factory AI trigger is IMO, the best more reliable trigger on earth. Not necessarily for competition use but for basically anything else.

Nothing that hasn't been mentioned yet.

An AI is an AI but they all have their respective places otherwise we would all be shooting AWs still and the others wouldnt exist.
What about the AX? Seems to offer additional flexibility over the AT/AW?

As Scott said in the AT-X thread most militarys are moving towards aluminum chassis and not so concerned about cold weather.

Seems like since the AT-X has launched the AX barely even gets considered (the AXSA at least).
 
What about the AX? Seems to offer additional flexibility over the AT/AW?

As Scott said in the AT-X thread most militarys are moving towards aluminum chassis and not so concerned about cold weather.

Seems like since the AT-X has launched the AX barely even gets considered (the AXSA at least).

Me personally, the AX "looks" cooler than an AT but for that specific use, i think i would still opt for the AT or AW. No AI is sexier to me than the OG's.



pin-on-guns-n-shit.jpg
Best-Sniper-Rifle.jpg




But obviously, that aspect is of least importance regarding this topic.
 
What about the AX? Seems to offer additional flexibility over the AT/AW?

As Scott said in the AT-X thread most militarys are moving towards aluminum chassis and not so concerned about cold weather.

Seems like since the AT-X has launched the AX barely even gets considered (the AXSA at least).

Let’s keep in mind just because the military or .gov goes with something doesn’t make it the right choice.

My duty weapon for years was a compact .40. Not sure why someone thought a small .40 that recoils pretty rough would be a better choice than a full size or at least a medium size. This was for duty belt and not concealed carry.

That’s one of countless times .gov or .mil has made questionable decisions.
 
I couldn't disagree more.

The thumbhole stock AT/AW is definitely the sexiest rifle created.
No, I agree with you. I was saying, the AX "looks cooler" to most people, I'd say. Nothing is as sexy as the AWs to my. I will add one to me collection before it's all said and done. The AWM reigns Supreme.
 
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Let’s keep in mind just because the military or .gov goes with something doesn’t make it the right choice.

My duty weapon for years was a compact .40. Not sure why someone thought a small .40 that recoils pretty rough would be a better choice than a full size or at least a medium size. This was for duty belt and not concealed carry.

That’s one of countless times .gov or .mil has made questionable decisions.
Yeah I appreciate that, though it is interesting that the trend is going the way it is.

Finland isn't exactly known for its warm climate yet Sako very much ditched polymer when building the Sako M10.
You'd think the Fins of all people would know what to look for in a cold weather rifle.

Regardless, part of the motivation of this thread was to convince me an AT-X was worth buying over an AT but @BLKWLFK9 has reinforced my thoughts that function follows form.

I don't live in the US so the PRS style shoots don't really fit the categories you guys are used to referring to. Reading between the lines I'd say most of the shoots fall somewhere between PRS match and a NRL hunter match, so going full gamer PRS rifle really isn't necessary.
Which I already new as I currently shoot a marginally customized Tikka CTR and find the factory stock suits me very well.
I find I'm more than competitive enough with it despite it weighing a mere 12lbs.

I keep thinking of going full retard with a truck axle barrel and an MDT ACC but the Tikka does everything I need it to do so will just stick with it until I can import an AIAT.
 
No, I agree with you. I was saying, the AX "looks cooler" to most people, I'd say. Nothing is as sexy as the AWs to my. I will add one to me collection before it's all said and done. The AWM reigns Supreme.
Lol, I meant I disagree that looks are least important.
And yes the AWM is pure sex.

I keep thinking about ways I could buy one and run it like an AXMC, I have exactly zero reason to buy a rifle capable of shooting over 1200m but I can’t help but lost over an AWM.

If I could run 308 based cartridges in one I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
 
Most field matches I've done, like steel safari, you are in the natural environment, and carrying everything. My first choice for these events is my AIAX, because 'it always works and shoots lights out. I have carried all sorts of guns through these matches. All of the gimmicky stuff ends up caught in branches or full of dirt, or just missing. For events with a lot more movement, I build way lighter than the AX while trying to maintain reliability, but everything is a compromise. Running 30 yards on the clock with a 8lb gun is a heck of a lot easier than the same movement with my heavy wonder cannon.

In my experience, it comes down to two factors:
1) Weight. 26lbs plus ammo, water, binos, tripod ends up being a load even with a short 3-4 mile course.
2) Reliability. My field match experiences have had 40-60mph winds with fine dirt, rain, snow, mud Not that PRS doesn't have those conditions too, but if you are walking/moving/laying in the dirt, your equipment ends up acquiring a lot more of it. There are no vehicles to stop and clean things off at, or shooting mats, or other means of 'self care' to minimize esposure to junk.

Long ago I used a DTA. It was like the worst of both. Heavy, and unreliable. I was thankful I never made the steel safari gun failure video with that thing.
 
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i run the same action and trigger on comp gun as i do my hunting rifle. Origin with a BnA set around 6-8 ounces. run what your familiar with. i can sit with my finger on the trigger shoe for a long time and in rather cold temperatures

i have no plans to change that for NRL Hunter or CD matches or for western hunting
I’m not necessarily saying that it’s impossible to run light triggers on a field gun. If you can do it and be safe doing by all means. I don’t think the majority has the discipline to. I wouldn’t have a sub 2 pound trigger in a gamer gun. Like to your point, it’s just not what I’m used to. I guess the meaning of my comment was people saying they have an inability to shoot a trigger that you would find on a typical field rifle is a problem in my personal opinion.
 
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Having had this conversation with many people, including the wife, on why I need so many rifles. I describe it as a tool box or a golf bag. Tool boxes basically have a wrench, screw driver, hammer, pliers. You don’t play golf with just a 3 wood or a 7 iron either. I have specific rifles for specific missions. That said, having a general purpose system for specified max distance as it’s only limiting factor, has a huge appeal to me.

My 9.5 pound 300 wsm proof with magnesium XLR and zeiss V4 is what goes up the mountain with me. My 18 lb 7 saum is what I take to shoot 2000 yards. I have a 6x47 I shoot comps with. I want a basic field rifle that lives in the truck or sxs that can handle 1000 and in and goes pew every time no matter the conditions or it’s condition.
 
If there’s not a timer and a score card you can’t compare whatever you are doing , to PRS
There is a timer and we keep score. It's just not an open comp. Just four of us rotating time and hit counting. (Five or more and we are further complicated by local state laws.)
 
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I've often heard people here talk about field target shooting as being a completely different shooting discipline than PRS and have often wondered why folk make such a big distinction between the two.

I get that PRS has very much lost any practical application in that it is now effectively barricade bench rest where you carry your 30lb rifle only a few feet between obstacles/barricades. Field shooting on the other hand seems to be considered what PRS used to be, or should be.

What I don't get is why some people make statements that imply a rifle set up for PRS is not practical as a field rifle.
Other than being unnecessarily heavy what distinguishes a PRS rifle from a field rifle?
Guys take their PRS rifles (or a slightly slimmed down version of) to the likes of the Mammoth Sniper Challenge and many military Sniper rifles aren't exactly lightweight, so what is the difference?

I know ultimately it doesn't matter, and I will just shoot whatever setup I feel comfortable with, just curious if I'm missing something that is obvious to other people or not?
 
This is an arresting thread for me. I recently read and now can't find an article by Mr. Galli that addresses this point. I also read, as alluded to above, about a recently retire Marine hunter/killer type who had to adjust his worldview and gear before being able to compete successfully in PRS/NRL matches. To me, the bottom line is that the rule "horses for courses" still applies...if you know what the course is, fairly specifically, beforehand. Three decades ago, out of an abiding interest in examining human performance and psychology, arising from my biomedical background, plus equipment testing, I conceived of, and then developed and ran with Mark C. Hamilton, what I think is a true field rifle paradigm, The Keneyathlon. We conducted it over five years' time at the N.R.A. Whittington Center, with fair success, although it died for want of sponsorship. Dave Wheeler continued the concept for several years as the old Steel Safari, mentioned above, near San Jon, New Mexico. I'd like to offer my final exposition document for consideration.

Please keep in mind that this piece of writing is now eighteen years old and informed by my experience and then-current technology and doctrine. Times have changed, indeed. I was trying then--and still would like now--to find out what works for good "markspeople" when they have to deal with uncertainty, which is the essence of practical field rifle use. And that, I contend, is what both hunters and snipers do in their daily undertakings. I wanted/want to know what gear works and why, and how to use it most effectively and why. Of course, that's situation-specific to a degree. But even professional agency/military shooters have to make compromises and generalizations, because neither their employers, nor in the case of private citizens their families, have immeasurably deep pockets. Gear has to be usable in multiple arenas. And ranges may be remarkably short and dauntingly long over a continuous span of time.

Yes, of course, field shooting is whatever the person doing it is pleased to call it. But we all have a probably-shared and overlapping mental image of what's meant. I shouldn't be gobsmacked to find out that the AI rifle (really nifty looking piece, by the way) or a Terry Cross Sentinel iteration, say, turns out to be the ideal general marksperson's purpose long arm. I respect Jeff Cooper, having grown up in shooting under his tutelage, but at 75 years of age, I've come to think that a lot of his specific ideas don't work anymore, including his Scout Rifle, as an adequate general purpose rifle--and I own and use one. Still, his idea of competition as human and equipment performance laboratory is valid. It's why I thought this up and offer it now.

I'm interested to know what folks think. The Keneyathlon could be considered a forerunner of current activities. I do believe that this could be a paradigm for future efforts. Operating such a get-together was time-consuming, physically and mentally exhausting, anxiety producing, and quite costly. But it offers a great deal of information for analysis. And modern equipment could make it doable in a way it never was before.

The contact information is out of date. I hope to see responses here. Thanks for your time and patience.

dk
 

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Apparently my attachment (a pdf) won't open, so I'll copy and paste a Word document here. Bracketed notes were intended as footers but (unfortunately) The Hide's system converted them to endnotes. The formatting is kinda wonky, but I think that the meaning is clear. Sorry; appreciate your patience and forbearance. I mean well.

Cheers and salaams.

David

THE KENEYATHLON

David Nissen Kahn

©2009: All Rights Reserved





PREMISE​


Tools amplify human muscles and thereby human will. The rifle is a tool for striking a powerful, decisive blow on a target at any range at which it can be clearly identified. But tools are inanimate and mindless intermediaries, and their use is a complex, skilled and mostly human process. The violinist’s musicianship can be tested ultimately only in live performance in front of a knowledgeable, critical audience. Just the same, the riflist’s attainments must be proven in the right environment, in the right way.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


“The unexamined life is not worth living.”



Socrates



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



DEFINITION AND DESCRIPTION



The Keneyathlon[1] is a shooting competition that examines practical rifle shooting as it happens in the field, rather than on the formal shooting range. It is unstandardized, widely variable and freestyle, with as little prescription as possible. As is the essence of field shooting, the Keneyathlon juxtaposes intense concentration and complex cognition, gross physical effort and fine motor control. It is an odd—yet charming—combination that is perhaps unduplicated. Judgment, self-knowledge and self-control predominate: the Keneyathlon is not a shooting test so much as a thinking test. Participants must understand not only the characteristics of their rifle-ammunition package, but also their abilities with it. It puts an integrated biomechanical system of person and instrument into its natural environment and demands that each riflist decide what he or she—not the tool itself—can and cannot do then and there.



“ . . . the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience, rather than by a mob of onlookers. It is difficult to exaggerate the importance of this fact.”

-Aldo Leopold

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

PHILOSOPHY AND RATIONALE​


The late Jeff Cooper called the rifle Queen of Weapons. He said that while she holds court in many places, her proper dominion is the field: a person with a rifle who can use it well commands all that he or she surveys. The great American rifle shot and gunmaker Harry M. Pope observed, “The bench proves the rifle. Offhand proves the man.” The rifle and its operator are an indivisible whole, and the shottist’s brain is its director. A sound instrument is as essential to riflecraft as it is to musicianship, but it is the player who animates the thing and elevates its use to artistry.
Different from the emotional power of the violin, the power of the rifle is physical and deadly. Its lethal capacity demands not only artistry and skill but also—definitively—judgment and morality.

All shooting formats test the biomechanical system in some degree. All require the exercise of intellect. But none tests all constitutive aspects of mechanical performance, human physical performance and human intellectual performance together in their full measures. Let us call that subtle combination riflism: the interactive collection of everything that comprises mastery of the rifle. That can be tested only in the field, where physical effort, discomfort and fatigue vie with judgment, self-control and emotion to frustrate concentration on the supposedly simple act of breaking the shot. To test riflism fully, there is only the Keneyathlon.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​



Cogito ergo sum.”
-René Descartes



“This is the Law . . . . The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplementary.”



-John Steinbeck



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



PURPOSES AND GOALS[2]


The Keneyathlon is the complete test of riflism. It accomplishes its purpose and justifies this claim by:



providing a stylized but still accurate replication of field shooting in a controlled and observable, measurable environment.



testing simultaneously the spectrum of cognitive and biomechanical attributes necessary to the riflist.

testing mechanical function, durability and utility of equipment, as well as its interface with its operator.



examining performance of both individuals and shooter-observer pairs.



providing a year-round, realistic, entertaining and educational shooting activity for hunters, professionals and other shooters unserved or unsatisfied by standard exercises and competitions.



offering a legitimate, wide-ranging field-test vehicle[3].



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​



The purpose of shooting is hitting.”



John D. “Jeff” Cooper



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



EQUIPMENT



The controlling principle is to take all comers, then let them perform unrestricted in closely similar situations to see what is effective, what is not and why. Put succinctly, “If it works for you, it’s fine. If it works better than what we’ve got or what we’re doing, we’ll all use it.” Thus, no equipment or technique per se is cheating, unfair or illegal.



Any rifle with any sights. Any appropriate caliber and centerfire chambering[4]. Any safe, legal configuration. Minimum trigger pull weight 2.5 pounds (1134 grams). Operative safety. Set triggers same weight unset; may be set only when operator is in position to shoot. Functional safety. Any shooting aids[5]. Match officials to verify trigger weight and safety compliance in formal pre-competitive equipment inspection.



Ear- and eye-protection are mandatory.



Lasers must be eye-safe and verified by match officials.



For safety or administration, items such as fluorescent or numbered vests may be stipulated. Other items, such as packs of given content or weight (or percentage of body weight), may be required. If a weighted pack or other load is dictated, it will be verified at the starting line and confirmed at the finish. Water, food and other consumables (e.g., ammunition) are not included in a weight requirement, because they are optional (see below) and variable, and because they diminish the burden as they are exhausted.



Any equipment not specified is at operator discretion. With justifying explanation, items of equipment may be disallowed.



Any bullet style and construction. The Keneyathlon is a hunting simulation on its face, however, though see prior footnotes. Expanding projectiles are suggested, but military ball and match bullets are acceptable, especially for professional operators[6].



Usual field attire is recommended, but military and police items are not prohibited (prior footnotes). Worn by professional riflists engaged in practicing their “business” skills, it is encouraged as necessary to the examination.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


“Rules? There’s no rules in a knife fight!!”



Ted Cassidy as Harvey Logan in “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

FORMAT AND OVERVIEW​


Each Keneyathlon is designed de novo and comprises one or more courses of fire. Each course consists in one flagged cross-country trail, which participants travel timed. It is previewed only by standardized general description. At distinctively marked, proctored points along it, unstated numbers of targets are offered in scenarios, to be engaged freestyle. These firing points represent field problems[7]. For each target, shooting may or may not be appropriate. Engagement includes finding and recognizing all targets, taking a “shoot/no-shoot” decision about each, and striking all identified “shoot” targets. There is an unrevealed total time limit for each firing point[8]. Scoring is achieved and accounted by shooting alone, but may be modified by multiplier factors such as time.



There is no standard course of fire, target or range. Targets are recognizably reactive to bullet impact and self-resetting, usually metal gongs, which offer both movement and sound signatures. They may be appropriate anatomical silhouettes or geometric shapes of reasonable size. They are described in preliminary literature and shown to the keneyathletes[9] during pre-competitive briefing.



Elapsed time for each participant is adjusted for age, based on accepted physiological understandings of age-related deterioration of human physical performance potential. The third decade (ages 20 to 29 years) is standard and includes adolescence: a participant whose age is between 18 and 29 years receives no correction. Each half-decade thereafter gives a subtraction multiplier of 0.02 (2 per cent subtracted from elapsed time) from ages 30 to 49 years. From 50 years upward, the factor is 0.015. Therefore, a 27-year-old keneyathlete’s correction factor is 0.0, a 47-year-old keneyathlete’s correction factor is 0.08, and a 57-year-old’s is 0.11.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






“Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.”



Anonymous



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​



SCORING[10]


The underlying philosophy is field realism. In the field, shooting occurs under time pressure. Consider: the best that can happen is that the quarry is recognized before it is alerted, identified clearly and struck a single decisive blow. Any other outcome is at best bad all around, and the range of possible outcomes rapidly worsens.



The shottist may fire at any target as many times as desired and take targets in any order. Number of shots may be limited. All shots count and are scored.



Geometrical targets (such as rectangles of vital zone dimensions) are scored hit or miss. One hit per target is scored unless stated otherwise. All targets must be identified.

Hits score +1.

Unidentified targets score –1.

Misses score –2.

No-shoot hits score –3.

No-shoot misses score –2[11].



Anatomical silhouette targets may be used.

Vital hits score +1.

Non-vital hits score –4.

Vital no-shoot hits score –5.

Non-vital no-shoot hits score –5

Vital hits cancel non-vital ones on the same target.



Shooting Score (SS) is the sum of hits (H) and penalties (P)[12].

SS = H + P.



Keneyathletes are timed from start to finish (see Rules of Conduct). Elapsed Time (T) is corrected to give Corrected Elapsed Time (TC), which adjusts for administrative delays (TA) at firing points (c.f., Rules of Conduct) and for age (FA). All TC are averaged to produce Standard Time (TS). Each TC is divided into the TS to create the Time Factor (FT).



TC = (T –TA) – [(T – TA) x FA].

TS = ΣTC/n, where Σ means sum and n = number of participants.

FT = TS/TC.



Final Score (SF) for a course is

SF = SS x FT.



Total score (ST) is the sum of stage scores:

ST = SF1 + SF2 + SF3 + . . . + SFN, where N = number of courses. (See note 11 below.)



Ties are unlikely and have never been seen, but they are possible in principle and are always divided by short, practical shooting exercises, never by chance (e.g., a coin toss)[13].



A few philosophical and practical observations: Points are won and lost only by shooting. FT merely modifies the value of SS. Fast times make higher scores for hits—but they amplify the costs of misses. And it is possible to go slowly enough to shoot well and lose[14]



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​



“You can’t miss fast enough to catch up.”


Ross Seyfried​


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

FIREARMS HANDLING AND SAFETY​


Rifles are carried on course in Condition 4[15]. They are not charged or fired without the presence and direction of an identified official. Infraction causes immediate summary disqualification.



Off course, shoulder arms are in Condition 4, slung with action open, racked with action open or cased. A supervised safe handling area is provided.



Sidearms are carried in any condition desired, so long as they are holstered.



The “Four Rules” are always in effect and more than sufficient to gunhandling safety and common courtesy.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


“Hey! Let’s be careful out there!”



Michael Conrad as Sgt. Phil Esterhaus in “Hill Street Blues”



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



RULES OF CONDUCT



Starting order is selected by lot.



Participants run each course sequentially (or together in teams of shooter and spotter) at intervals of ten minutes, under direction of a starter. Participants leave the start/finish line carrying all mandatory equipment (see Equipment).



Timing begins with the start signal or command. It continues uninterrupted until the finish line is crossed in the correct direction (c.f. #8) or until the keneyathlete or team formally retires from the course.



When shooter/spotter teams are running, either person may shoot at any firing point or target. For practicality and safety, only one may shoot at a time[16]. Shooter and spotter may interchange roles at a shooting station by announcing intent and receiving acknowledgment prior to the change.



At marked and proctored, clearly identified firing points, keneyathletes receive standardized instructions read from a script to put them in the scenario. They solve the problem(s) presented, working freestyle. An unstated time limit is imposed. Anything occurring after time is called has no effect on scoring.



Owing to differing speeds of travel, keneyathletes may arrive at firing points out of order. They shoot in order of arrival. They wait in a holding area out of sight and hearing of the problem.



Delayed shooters time their waits (TA) with provided instruments. The proctor records TA.



There are no “alibis.” Mechanical failures and physical injuries may be repaired on course, if that can be done safely. Keneyathletes may return for repair and re-supply by backtracking under on-going timing (see #3). Such participants may re-enter in the next available starting time slot, as directed by the starter, and proceed to their next sequential firing point.



Coaching, except by spotter teammate, is prohibited.



Unless there are clearly dangerous conditions, courses proceed irrespective of weather conditions.



Any item prescribed must be carried throughout the course or match, whether used or not. Any equipment or technique not directly forbidden is allowed.



NOTES​



For additional information and welcomed comment, contact David Nissen Kahn, M.D., email [email protected].



This prospectus covers centerfire rifle use. With self-evident changes made, the Keneyathlon can be used for many forms of fieldcraft based on other weapons, such as rimfire rifles and pistols, centerfire pistols, archery, black powder arms and air rifles and pistols. The author claims these and any other uses not mentioned under the scope of his copyright and his registered service marks. He has also promulgated the ProskopathlonSM for purely tactical applications[17].



Previously copyright asserted 15 February 2006 and 10 March 2004, clarifying edition of 25 February 2004. Supercedes previous editions © 10 November 1989, 10 October 1990, 7 December 1990, 17 December 1990, 10 January 1992, 31 January 1994, 23 September 1996, 11 April 1999, 20 January 2000 and derivatives therefrom.





[1] The Greek keneyous means hunter, and athlon means test. Thus, it is the Hunter’s Test. Keneyathlon is the author’s registered service mark. He conceived it in 1988 and developed it with his colleague Mark C. Hamilton. In 1990, a first trial Keneyathlon was shot on the National Rifle Association’s Whittington Center, near Raton, New Mexico, USA. It was run there formally as an open, advertised competition until 1995. Since then, it has been conducted by various proponents in some form annually or more frequently at various venues in the United States under various names.

[2] While the brief of this paper is hunting, any field shooting is countenanced. Military specialists and civil police operators can shoot alongside hunters with equal productivity. After all, coldly put, the only constitutive differences between hunter and sniper are their quarry and the precise conditions of its taking.
[3] Philosophically (and practically), each target engaged is the culmination of a single hunt. Many hunts, hunting situations and uses are thus simulated in a single Keneyathlon.
[4]Any cartridge may be prohibited when inappropriate to the scenarios (e.g., 223 Remington in elk hunting). Pragmatically, one ought to keep recoil in mind when considering any chambering for the Keneyathlon. “Big-bottle” magnum cartridges may be appropriate to the setting, but the Keneyathlon is a test in which many rounds—not just three or four—are discharged recurrently in serial short periods of time. Why should one select the 338 Remington Ultra Mag when the 308 and 243 Winchester are available?
[5] There is no “Keneyathlon rifle” per se. Any well thought out field rifle, military or hunting, will suffice if used skillfully and knowledgeably.
[6] Certain projectiles, such as armor piercing or tracer, may be disallowed in service of target and landscape preservation. In some situations, fully jacketed projectiles may be required for the same reason.
[7] Finn Aagaard, the straightforward, pragmatic Kenyan-American writer, hunter and guide to whose spirit this undertaking is dedicated, liked to say opportunities or challenges when considering hunting. “Tactical” shooters incline toward thinking of problems.
[8] No target, no matter how unaware, remains continuously still, presenting an ideal shot for the riflist’s convenience.
[9] Keneyathlete is the author’s registered service mark.
[10] This is the Kahn-Hamilton System™. While necessarily complex, its concepts are straightforward and consistent with field shooting. Computerized scoring makes it easy to use.
[11] While missing it brings the shottist a sigh of relief, a no-shoot should not have been fired on at all. Doing it is a cognitive and/or a biomechanical failure that must be penalized. All shots count and are scored (c.f. #1 above).
[12] The score may be negative. A negative score is not pejorative. Scores are event-specific and relative, not absolute. Comparison from contest to contest can be done only with rank order of finish, with the scale’s running from most negative upward to most positive; the least negative can win. Use of negative scores allows judgment of how well or ill the group did. Obviously, one must make unquantifiable assumptions about skills levels of shottists, but in doing that one can form some idea of the difficulty of the courses of fire, in comparison to each other and collectively for the entire event.
For esthetics, raw scores can be adjusted by adding to each the whole positive number necessary to make the lowest one positive. For example, a lowest score of –39.75 requires a correction of +40. The bottom score then becomes +0.25. A raw score of –10.69 becomes +29.31, and one of +27.43 becomes +67.43. That corrector is a sort of measure of degree of difficulty. The correction factor is not necessary to the functionality of the system, and possibility of negative score adds piquancy and emotional urgency not found in other systems.
[13] Examples are Jeff Cooper’s Rifle Ten and Rifle Bounce, and the FBI Duel. These are simple and obvious and have great spectator appeal, which makes them ideal for a shoot-off. The details and courses of fire are up to the Course Director’s discretion
[14] Some will say—justly—that foot racing is not consonant with fieldcraft. The Keneyathlon is not a foot race, though it is a sort of practical biathlon (and could be done on snowshoes or Nordic skis in winter). A realistically equipped keneyathlete is usually too encumbered to run very much but certainly can walk briskly and may have to do. FT is necessary to apply adequate physical pressure and to keep things moving and manageable. It applies psychic pressure as well. Remember that being tired, uncomfortable and out of breath is part and parcel of field shooting.
[15] This may not congrue with common and commonly safe field or tactical practice. It is obligatory for safety in a crowded setting, no matter the experience of the practitioners.
[16] Of course, this may be inconsistent with real world practice, depending on situation and jurisdiction.
[17] The Proskopathlon was developed for scout/sniper work. It was shot in 1997 near Gillette, Wyoming, USA, and continues under varios other names. Proskopathlon is the author’s registered service mark, as is proskopathlete.
 
Fascinating!
Have they ever attempted to handicap for elderly men that can barely walk?
I can still shoot matches and do well but your going to need a meat wagon and a coroner following me around if I were to try to keep up with the young studs.
 
The PDF opened correctly for me.
THANKS!
If nothing else this gives me ideas for running a match.
Pleased to hear it. Do message me if you'd like to talk. I'm happy to use my expensive iPhone. I'm pretty elderly, but I'm reasonable fit for an alte kaker (old, up, fella) in Yiddish. I'd try it if I could get an age correction. Many guys my age have crappy knees and crummy anaerobic fitness. MIne's not terrible, but a tubby twenty-five-year-old might be able to paste me. I'm not a natural stone killer, but I'm not impotent.

dk
 
Pleased to hear it. Do message me if you'd like to talk. I'm happy to use my expensive iPhone. I'm pretty elderly, but I'm reasonable fit for an alte kaker (old, up, fella) in Yiddish. I'd try it if I could get an age correction. Many guys my age have crappy knees and crummy anaerobic fitness. MIne's not terrible, but a tubby twenty-five-year-old might be able to paste me. I'm not a natural stone killer, but I'm not impotent.

dk
Um...that's "old, um, feller. Litterally means old [reference to colonic incontinence].

dk
 
If I could use my old dirt bike I probably could do it but a side by side or a golf cart is somewhat easier on my back and knee.
My XL600R was a hell raiser long time ago. Now of course the big enduros are a twice as fast and have electric start.
 
Proskopathlon


Now WTRC, and shooting it next month.
 
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The WTRC arose from Dave Lauck's laudable, extraordinary efforts to continue it after the first Proskopathlon, which was held under his aegis in Wyoming in, I think, 1995.

For whatever it's worth...probably not very much...I'd love to help advance this sort of thing however I can be of use: advice, physical assistance, whatever. What I can offer is an experienced outsider's overview, with suggestions based on having thought about this for three decades and not limiting that consideration to any particular activity or firearm class.

SIG Sauer held what sounds like a spiritually similar sort of match last year, indeed note- and praiseworthy. But it was invitational only, using name-brand guests to advertise SIG's Cross Rifle and 6.8mm cartridge. Nothing to deprecate there, except that it wasn't really a test in the sense I've meant, more of a show. So, of course, a shottist with Cross Rifle won.

Thanks for your time.

dk
 
Most field matches I've done, like steel safari, you are in the natural environment, and carrying everything. My first choice for these events is my AIAX, because 'it always works and shoots lights out. I have carried all sorts of guns through these matches. All of the gimmicky stuff ends up caught in branches or full of dirt, or just missing. For events with a lot more movement, I build way lighter than the AX while trying to maintain reliability, but everything is a compromise. Running 30 yards on the clock with a 8lb gun is a heck of a lot easier than the same movement with my heavy wonder cannon.

In my experience, it comes down to two factors:
1) Weight. 26lbs plus ammo, water, binos, tripod ends up being a load even with a short 3-4 mile course.
2) Reliability. My field match experiences have had 40-60mph winds with fine dirt, rain, snow, mud Not that PRS doesn't have those conditions too, but if you are walking/moving/laying in the dirt, your equipment ends up acquiring a lot more of it. There are no vehicles to stop and clean things off at, or shooting mats, or other means of 'self care' to minimize esposure to junk.

Long ago I used a DTA. It was like the worst of both. Heavy, and unreliable. I was thankful I never made the steel safari gun failure video with that thing.
I had the same experience with my DTA. I had such high hopes for that rifle - and they offered it in lefty. What a disaster of a rifle. The mags were the worst…
 
Folks, Without getting excessively wordy, just about every shooting sport I have seen has gone the same route IHMSA went.

1976 to 2000 (44 mag to 7 TCU or BR) (5 pound trigger to 2oz trigger with no safety)
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3CEDDA7A-0E3D-42B7-B887-ECE4830017CE.jpeg
 
Meh equipment races push innovation.

I’m sure shooter technique etc has improved vastly also
 
Meh equipment races push innovation.

I’m sure shooter technique etc has improved vastly also
Unless the organizations do not adapt to that innovation. There is a reason that PRS is disparagingly referred to as ‘barricade benchrest…’
 
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Shooter technique has improved the years in part due to improved equipment. The problem is that the expense of competing becomes high enough that it severely limits the number of new competitors and the sport participation numbers decline to the point that it is no longer as popular as it once was. For example, I refuse to spend the outrageous money and wait time on a highly specialized state of the art weapon system designed to take advantage of the current rules in some event but is sub-optimal or even unusable for most any other event.
 
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I refuse to spend the outrageous money and wait time on a highly specialized state of the art weapon system desighned to take advantage of the current rules in some event but is sub-optimal or even unusable for most any other event.
Like what ?
 
20+ lb 6bra?
Meh weights are removable ,
Afforadable options are out there Seekins hit , RPR , production rifles wtc

Calibers are but a barrel change away. Pretty sure Zane does well with a 6cm. Factory ammo available , fine for hunting most creatures big and small.

My AI goes from a 28” 6cm to a 18” 65cm or 20” 308 and does fine at both PRs and truck gun night gun etc

Can do similar with terminus in a bravo with weights , etc
 
Meh weights are removable ,
Afforadable options are out there Seekins hit , RPR , production rifles wtc

Calibers are but a barrel change away. Pretty sure Zane does well with a 6cm. Factory ammo available , fine for hunting most creatures big and small.

My AI goes from a 28” 6cm to a 18” 65cm or 20” 308 and does fine at both PRs and truck gun night gun etc

Can do similar with terminus in a bravo with weights , etc
All fair points, and my “Prs rifle” in 6.5 cm weighs in at 16.4 lbs with a loaded mag and a bipod. It is by no means a heavy weight rifle, but not one that I would carry while sheep hunting. Hell, I don‘t take it to sit in a box blind when I can drive right up to the door.

Some people cannot get over the fact that prs (and like competitions) are a game, and have specialized equipment. You can have the perfect HD rifle, the lightest possible mountain rifle, an African plains game rifle, a dangerous game rifle, a tactical carbine, a DMR, a SPR, a “sniper rifle,“ and a “battle rifle.” But, a rifle designed and purpose built for a ‘game‘ is a bridge too far...
 
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Quick question, just looking to get into PRS and would like one rifle for that and hunting. Do many PRS shooters use their rifle for hunting?
 
Quick question, just looking to get into PRS and would like one rifle for that and hunting. Do many PRS shooters use their rifle for hunting?\
IMHO there is zero reason to walk around in the woods with MTR or m24 countour barrels

Also, keep in mind... people hunt varmits and big game with different rifles...

Now, if you needed to do both in a pinch, a light-palma profile is probably what you want.
see Tikka CTR for a real world example...
 
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depends how far you're walking. i've hunted with an AI AE and a lightish PRS gun. i'll be taking an NRL Hunter gun elk hunting this fall and it rocks a 27" HV barrel