Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
Fantastic review.
Fantastic review.
Rifle Scopes Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
- Thread starter jrob300
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Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
Great informative review thank you.
Great informative review thank you.
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
You need to get the razor updated. We did the same optical tests at 400 yards, the ss did not keep up. On 10x they both looked the same on 20x there was a big difference.
You need to get the razor updated. We did the same optical tests at 400 yards, the ss did not keep up. On 10x they both looked the same on 20x there was a big difference.
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
Boone,
This is a fair request, but I had sold my SS 5-20 by the time I got the Razor I had updated. Scott at Vortex also gave me a ration over this and understandably so. I did have a newer production SS 5-20 here recently for evaluation, but they didn't give me enough time to actually get it into the field, so the A-B of current models of both awaits to be done... I do have an EBR 2B on order, so if SWFA wants to send me another SS for a couple weeks at least, I'd be happy to do it.
I can say the new Ocular makes a considerable difference in getting behind the Razor at 20X.
John
Boone,
This is a fair request, but I had sold my SS 5-20 by the time I got the Razor I had updated. Scott at Vortex also gave me a ration over this and understandably so. I did have a newer production SS 5-20 here recently for evaluation, but they didn't give me enough time to actually get it into the field, so the A-B of current models of both awaits to be done... I do have an EBR 2B on order, so if SWFA wants to send me another SS for a couple weeks at least, I'd be happy to do it.
I can say the new Ocular makes a considerable difference in getting behind the Razor at 20X.
John
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
John -
WOW! Thanks so much for this review, I actually was waiting for a review like this because these are the two scopes I am looking to buy. I am leaning toward the SS. Thanks so much. How about some side by side pictures???
John -
WOW! Thanks so much for this review, I actually was waiting for a review like this because these are the two scopes I am looking to buy. I am leaning toward the SS. Thanks so much. How about some side by side pictures???
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
Per your review I actually agreed with most of it. The only thing "we" didn't agree with was the glass. We use the same charts while comparing scopes, set at 100, 200, 300, and 400. We didn't think to write are findings down while comparing the scopes. However off the top of my head the SS, NF, and Razor all look about the same on 10x. On 20x it was a different story. The Razor and NF gave a cleaner crisper image in afternoon daylight and evening lowlight. At 400 yards. The turrets on the SS are truly badass, positive and very audible. While most people will say the Razor lacks in this being a 5 mil per turn scope I find myself on the otherside prefering 5 mil turn scopes. I tend to over shoot or under shoot my dope. That's just me not a dig at any 10 mil rev scope. On S&B scopes with 13 mil revs I really have to pay attention.
While I believe the SS is a good scope for $1500 I can not say it stacked up across the board to compare to the $2000+ scopes. This past weekend we compared the NF, Razor, and S&B without a doubt the S&B won hands down. the NF we used was 3 weeks old. Let me say NF uped their game in the glass department again. The Razor was the weak link in this comparison.
Soon we will have a HDMR to throw in the mix with the Razor, S&B, and NF. I'm very excited about the HDMR. It will be judged in the same manner. I actually wished I would have kept one of the SS to compare against the HDMR.
Per your review I actually agreed with most of it. The only thing "we" didn't agree with was the glass. We use the same charts while comparing scopes, set at 100, 200, 300, and 400. We didn't think to write are findings down while comparing the scopes. However off the top of my head the SS, NF, and Razor all look about the same on 10x. On 20x it was a different story. The Razor and NF gave a cleaner crisper image in afternoon daylight and evening lowlight. At 400 yards. The turrets on the SS are truly badass, positive and very audible. While most people will say the Razor lacks in this being a 5 mil per turn scope I find myself on the otherside prefering 5 mil turn scopes. I tend to over shoot or under shoot my dope. That's just me not a dig at any 10 mil rev scope. On S&B scopes with 13 mil revs I really have to pay attention.
While I believe the SS is a good scope for $1500 I can not say it stacked up across the board to compare to the $2000+ scopes. This past weekend we compared the NF, Razor, and S&B without a doubt the S&B won hands down. the NF we used was 3 weeks old. Let me say NF uped their game in the glass department again. The Razor was the weak link in this comparison.
Soon we will have a HDMR to throw in the mix with the Razor, S&B, and NF. I'm very excited about the HDMR. It will be judged in the same manner. I actually wished I would have kept one of the SS to compare against the HDMR.
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
I recently had a new production NXS 5.5-22 and I would have to say that the glass was excellent.
I think that the thing to take away here is that these two scopes have very different personalities. The five, very distinct mils/rev, coupled with the zero stop of the Razor, make it a better choice for me right now as I'm shooting more matches and less ELR. I did get lost with the SS a couple times. I know that there are a lot of guys on here that question the need of a zero stop. For me, if it's available, I'll take it. One less thing to worry about.
The HS turrets on the NXS were definitely superior to the SS. If the NXS was 10, I'd call the SS 8.5. FWIW, I recently also had a Bushnell HDMR for a short time and the 5 mil/rev turrets on that were nowhere near as good as the Razor.
They all have strengths and weaknesses. It comes down to what is a priority to you. There is no perfect scope. We all have to find which compromises we can live with. Still, at $1500, the SS is going to be popular with a lot of people because it does so much well at a better price point than the competitors. I still wish it had a thinner reticle, with simple hashes instead of the diamonds and a zero stop. But then I wish Vortex would get rid of those enormous turrets, implement a 10 mil/rev to equal the NXS and give me a .03 mil floating cross or dot. That said, I have considered one less kidney for the S/B.
John
ETA: I use an Ipod sometimes too... and yes... it sucks.
I recently had a new production NXS 5.5-22 and I would have to say that the glass was excellent.
I think that the thing to take away here is that these two scopes have very different personalities. The five, very distinct mils/rev, coupled with the zero stop of the Razor, make it a better choice for me right now as I'm shooting more matches and less ELR. I did get lost with the SS a couple times. I know that there are a lot of guys on here that question the need of a zero stop. For me, if it's available, I'll take it. One less thing to worry about.
The HS turrets on the NXS were definitely superior to the SS. If the NXS was 10, I'd call the SS 8.5. FWIW, I recently also had a Bushnell HDMR for a short time and the 5 mil/rev turrets on that were nowhere near as good as the Razor.
They all have strengths and weaknesses. It comes down to what is a priority to you. There is no perfect scope. We all have to find which compromises we can live with. Still, at $1500, the SS is going to be popular with a lot of people because it does so much well at a better price point than the competitors. I still wish it had a thinner reticle, with simple hashes instead of the diamonds and a zero stop. But then I wish Vortex would get rid of those enormous turrets, implement a 10 mil/rev to equal the NXS and give me a .03 mil floating cross or dot. That said, I have considered one less kidney for the S/B.
John
ETA: I use an Ipod sometimes too... and yes... it sucks.
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
I'll agree with that assesment. I think both Vortex and SWFA should do what Bushnell did with the reticle. Make make the inner cross (aiming point) half the thickness of the rest of the reticle making a finer aiming point.
You are correct though, there is no magic scope.
BTW what did you find lacking overall on the HDMR? Just the turrets?
I'll agree with that assesment. I think both Vortex and SWFA should do what Bushnell did with the reticle. Make make the inner cross (aiming point) half the thickness of the rest of the reticle making a finer aiming point.
You are correct though, there is no magic scope.
BTW what did you find lacking overall on the HDMR? Just the turrets?
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
I bought one from Horus with the H59. The turrets weren't horrible, but it exhibited so much chromatic aberration, I couldn't stand it. It was literally one of the worst optics I ever looked through. Even though there was a lot of discussion about CA in these scopes, mine was 2-3 times worse than anything I saw pics of, so I assume it was bad. But I got the last one in stock at Horus and HDMR shipments were frozen due to the CA investigation and needed a match scope... after a bit of thought I came full circle to the tried and true(if a little boring)Razor. It just does everything so well and it has that zero stop.
I wish the NXS was FFP. That thing was perfect in every other regard.
John
I bought one from Horus with the H59. The turrets weren't horrible, but it exhibited so much chromatic aberration, I couldn't stand it. It was literally one of the worst optics I ever looked through. Even though there was a lot of discussion about CA in these scopes, mine was 2-3 times worse than anything I saw pics of, so I assume it was bad. But I got the last one in stock at Horus and HDMR shipments were frozen due to the CA investigation and needed a match scope... after a bit of thought I came full circle to the tried and true(if a little boring)Razor. It just does everything so well and it has that zero stop.
I wish the NXS was FFP. That thing was perfect in every other regard.
John
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
Really like the way you judged the "optimal performance" with a bar chart - it takes the operator's subjective component away. I wish you have more high-end scopes so you can put them to the same test. I read many other scope reviews, and often wonder how much the reviewer's personal preference colored the subjectivity - we are all human, but your method is highly subjective
Congratulations for a high quality review for the rest of us
Really like the way you judged the "optimal performance" with a bar chart - it takes the operator's subjective component away. I wish you have more high-end scopes so you can put them to the same test. I read many other scope reviews, and often wonder how much the reviewer's personal preference colored the subjectivity - we are all human, but your method is highly subjective
Congratulations for a high quality review for the rest of us
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yej0001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish you have more high-end scopes so you can put them to the same test. </div></div>
Me too. I take donations.
Seriously... glad to be of help. Making this as objective and fact based as possible is my goal. No one should tell you what scope is right for you. Rather, you should have some good data on which to make your decisions.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yej0001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish you have more high-end scopes so you can put them to the same test. </div></div>
Me too. I take donations.
Seriously... glad to be of help. Making this as objective and fact based as possible is my goal. No one should tell you what scope is right for you. Rather, you should have some good data on which to make your decisions.
John
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per your review I actually agreed with most of it. The only thing "we" didn't agree with was the glass. We use the same charts while comparing scopes, set at 100, 200, 300, and 400. We didn't think to write are findings down while comparing the scopes. However off the top of my head the SS, NF, and Razor all look about the same on 10x. On 20x it was a different story. The Razor and NF gave a cleaner crisper image in afternoon daylight and evening lowlight. At 400 yards. The turrets on the SS are truly badass, positive and very audible. While most people will say the Razor lacks in this being a 5 mil per turn scope I find myself on the otherside prefering 5 mil turn scopes. I tend to over shoot or under shoot my dope. That's just me not a dig at any 10 mil rev scope. On S&B scopes with 13 mil revs I really have to pay attention.
While I believe the SS is a good scope for $1500 I can not say it stacked up across the board to compare to the $2000+ scopes. This past weekend we compared the NF, Razor, and S&B without a doubt the S&B won hands down. the NF we used was 3 weeks old. Let me say NF uped their game in the glass department again. The Razor was the weak link in this comparison.
Soon we will have a HDMR to throw in the mix with the Razor, S&B, and NF. I'm very excited about the HDMR. It will be judged in the same manner. I actually wished I would have kept one of the SS to compare against the HDMR.
</div></div>
I haven't been able to get behind a SS 5-20 yet but while you guys are talking about tactical scopes I thought I'd throw in my .02 in case optics designers are watching this thread and looking for more suggestions.
For close to their current price....
Take a Vortex Razor, upgrade the glass "a little", design a lower profile wide-ish 10 mil elevation knob system retaining their proprietary ZS "IMO best in the scope world" retain the illume system although I'd rather it be else ware and have 10Y parallax. This would make it really fantastic and versatile Gen 2 Razor.
Nightforce, create a F1 5.5-22 version staying in the F1 price range, widen the elevation HS knob, modernize the illume system and rework the parallax for 10Y. Include option for H-59 reticle. I don't especially care for the whole ocular turning but really only with wearing BC caps is it a pain. I'm well aware that NF is coming out with their new "monster" but 2 things are a issue for me, price and weight.
My HDMR's are great scopes for the money and showing no or little CA, I haven't noticed any and the glass is better than the 2 IOR's I've owned. They could use some more features but the price would probably go up.
Another feature I'd like to see happen, although this might be impossible, is to have the parallax separate from the focus. Seems like half the time the 2 are not in sinc.
If we could all afford $3000+ scopes on all our rifles life would be peachy, wouldn't it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per your review I actually agreed with most of it. The only thing "we" didn't agree with was the glass. We use the same charts while comparing scopes, set at 100, 200, 300, and 400. We didn't think to write are findings down while comparing the scopes. However off the top of my head the SS, NF, and Razor all look about the same on 10x. On 20x it was a different story. The Razor and NF gave a cleaner crisper image in afternoon daylight and evening lowlight. At 400 yards. The turrets on the SS are truly badass, positive and very audible. While most people will say the Razor lacks in this being a 5 mil per turn scope I find myself on the otherside prefering 5 mil turn scopes. I tend to over shoot or under shoot my dope. That's just me not a dig at any 10 mil rev scope. On S&B scopes with 13 mil revs I really have to pay attention.
While I believe the SS is a good scope for $1500 I can not say it stacked up across the board to compare to the $2000+ scopes. This past weekend we compared the NF, Razor, and S&B without a doubt the S&B won hands down. the NF we used was 3 weeks old. Let me say NF uped their game in the glass department again. The Razor was the weak link in this comparison.
Soon we will have a HDMR to throw in the mix with the Razor, S&B, and NF. I'm very excited about the HDMR. It will be judged in the same manner. I actually wished I would have kept one of the SS to compare against the HDMR.
</div></div>
I haven't been able to get behind a SS 5-20 yet but while you guys are talking about tactical scopes I thought I'd throw in my .02 in case optics designers are watching this thread and looking for more suggestions.
For close to their current price....
Take a Vortex Razor, upgrade the glass "a little", design a lower profile wide-ish 10 mil elevation knob system retaining their proprietary ZS "IMO best in the scope world" retain the illume system although I'd rather it be else ware and have 10Y parallax. This would make it really fantastic and versatile Gen 2 Razor.
Nightforce, create a F1 5.5-22 version staying in the F1 price range, widen the elevation HS knob, modernize the illume system and rework the parallax for 10Y. Include option for H-59 reticle. I don't especially care for the whole ocular turning but really only with wearing BC caps is it a pain. I'm well aware that NF is coming out with their new "monster" but 2 things are a issue for me, price and weight.
My HDMR's are great scopes for the money and showing no or little CA, I haven't noticed any and the glass is better than the 2 IOR's I've owned. They could use some more features but the price would probably go up.
Another feature I'd like to see happen, although this might be impossible, is to have the parallax separate from the focus. Seems like half the time the 2 are not in sinc.
If we could all afford $3000+ scopes on all our rifles life would be peachy, wouldn't it?
Re: Field Test: SS 5-20 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD 5-20
Great thread. Hope the manufactures are listening.
Great thread. Hope the manufactures are listening.
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