Firearm Parts Quality

Phil3

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Need some perspective…from the many experienced enthusiasts on this forum.

Up until about 6 months ago, my deepest involvement with firearms was a 22 Ruger and 9mm handgun. I then decided to build my own AR15. This has been somewhat disappointing due to the weak quality of some products, especially higher end parts. Is what I am seeing typical of firearm products, or am I just expecting too much?

Barrel from a premier manufacturer, which had the gas block dragged along the barrel, scratching it, and then twisted on at the gas block port, leaving twisting scratches just in front of the gas block. The latter are just deep enough to catch a fingernail on. Looks like grit was on the barrel or inside the gas block, or a burr caused the marring.

Top of the line trigger, with some kind of ridge on the upper face of the trigger, that is about .035” tall, and .220” long, is off to one side and runs vertical at a bit of a slant. Looks like flashing or something dropped on it and then fused to the trigger face.

A2 stock from a reputable maker with the screw threads for affixing to the bugger tube on the verge of being stripped. Small stain on stock, plus scuffed due to poor packaging.

Top of the line bolt assembly, with a small groove cut across on the outside edge of one of the locking lugs. Maybe it is supposed to be there? Never seen another like this.

Lower receiver with oversize trigger and hammer pin holes (already discussed here in another post). That receiver has been sent back for inspection.

Many try to justify the lackluster quality by saying demand has hurt quality, or that the AR is a battle rifle, and I should be indifferent to cosmetic flaws, or that it will get banged up anyway, so why care. My stuff does not get banged up, and if I buy the best, I expect the best in every way. Is that too much to ask of firearm parts?

- Phil
 

ubershinobi

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Jan 15, 2007
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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

Not much of an asking at all. You buy retail priced fora brand new product, a brand new product is expected with no "battle signs." They are for you to make. However, some manufacturers are less tolerant than others and some parts just get by quality control at times. Specially during these times, ar15 type weapons have an increased demand, and manufacturers are trying their best to increase production, sometimes at the cost of quality. You did the right thing in letting the manufacturer know you're dissatisfied. It's telling them they have unhappy customers and may change their ways in getting a better quality product to the end customer.
 

Phil3

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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

So far, the trigger manufacturer was upset a defective product got out of their shop, and is taking very satisfactory action to rectify the situation. The barrel is going back for some polishing which will hopefully fix that. The lower receiver was sent back but it has not yet arrived at the manufacturer's facility, but will see what results that brings.

As you stated, I am hopeful people will communicate with the vendors and voice their satisfaction or dissatisfaction. Ultimately results in better products for consumers.

- Phil
 

wphoto

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Dec 11, 2008
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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

Define "the best".

What products are discussing and by what manufacturers?

Good - Fast - Cheap (You cant have all three)
 

Phil3

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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pb_m3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define "the best".

What products are discussing and by what manufacturers?

Good - Fast - Cheap (You cant have all three)
</div></div>

Trigger - Geissele
Barrel - Krieger
Lower Receiver - SunDevil (not considered a "best", but not considered lower tier either. Well regarded by numerous well known AR people (i.e., Glen Zediker).
Bolt Assy = Young Manufacturing

The first two are doing all they can to fix the situation. The third appears to be doing the same, but have not heard back from them after the receiver was shipped to them. I did not pursue the bolt assembly with the maker, as the apparent defect is too minor and not visible when assembled.

- Phil
 

Huckmeat

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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

Is the scratch in the barrel really the barrels fault? It sounds like the gas block was dirty or had a problem/burr and the installer forced it and ruined it, not the barrel, in which case it would be a problem with a gas block.
 

wphoto

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Dec 11, 2008
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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My stuff does not get banged up, and if I buy the best, I expect the best in every way.</div></div>

Perhaps you can only realize that you got the best when it does get used hard and continues to work when/if you really need it.

The real value in quality "tools" is that they can be USED and maintain there value.

If you want it to be perfect, get some steel wool and polish the barrel, dremel the trigger to your satisfaction and get some kns anti-rotation pins for the trigger and hammer. Once you are finished making it "perfect" lock it away in a hermetically sealed display box and admire it. Too bad you had to pay "California AR Taxes" for a piece of artwork...
 

BobsArmory

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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jephs422</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if I bought new items I'd be a little pissed if the manufacturer told me to go ahead and just steel wool it and it'll all be better. Give me an effin break. </div></div>

I agree. If you pay for a product it should be right when you buy it. I just bought a frame from the Thompson Center Custom Shop for a pistol build. It looked like someone hammered it with a carbide punch. Called the man in charge up and they sent me a new frame with a letter of apology.
 

Phil3

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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HeresJohnny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the scratch in the barrel really the barrels fault? It sounds like the gas block was dirty or had a problem/burr and the installer forced it and ruined it, not the barrel, in which case it would be a problem with a gas block.
</div></div>

It is not the barrel's fault, it is the barrel maker's fault. Krieger thinks there may have been glass beading grit on the barrel or the gas block. Still, this is a quality control problem.

- Phil
 

Phil3

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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pb_m3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My stuff does not get banged up, and if I buy the best, I expect the best in every way.</div></div>

Perhaps you can only realize that you got the best when it does get used hard and continues to work when/if you really need it.

The real value in quality "tools" is that they can be USED and maintain there value.

If you want it to be perfect, get some steel wool and polish the barrel, dremel the trigger to your satisfaction and get some kns anti-rotation pins for the trigger and hammer. Once you are finished making it "perfect" lock it away in a hermetically sealed display box and admire it. Too bad you had to pay "California AR Taxes" for a piece of artwork... </div></div>

The real value to me goes beyond what you say. It is that these parts perform well new, and continue to perform well when well used, and also are made to a high standard.

Sure, I can get out the Dremel and steel wool, and fix it, but why should I have to? Are you saying that I should accept a burr on a $280 trigger or scratches in a $440 barrel, and then break out my own tools to fix it? Sorry, my standards are higher than that, and even the makers agreed. They were embarrassed this happened.

KNS pins are not recommended for use with a Geissele trigger, and why should I have to buy another part to fix sloppy workmanship in the first part? You may be OK band-aiding and fixing up things after shelling out $$$ for the product, but just like a new Porsche owner would not tolerate a run the paint (hey, the car works doesn't it?), I am not going to put up with defects of any kind for top drawer gun products.

For some reason, some people seem to think that keeping something that gets used, such as a tool, weapon, car, etc., can not be maintained in like new shape. I can, and do. But only if the maker provides me something in new shape to start with. The weapon will be used, and it will look new, after many rounds.

California AR taxes? No such thing. I paid sales tax on the lower receiver and $25 for a background check.

- Phil
 

Phil3

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Re: Firearm Parts Quality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jephs422</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if I bought new items I'd be a little pissed if the manufacturer told me to go ahead and just steel wool it and it'll all be better. Give me an effin break. </div></div>

Thankfully, none have asked me to just live with it. Geissele just sent me a replacement trigger (they want the old one back, and enclosed a postage paid envelope for that purpose).

Krieger wants to try polishing the barrel.

SunDevil wanted their receiver back to inspect.

- Phil