First group with Berger VLD's--Final Update!!

[reeljob]

I have not shot a group this bad in years!! Spoiled to atleast three clovering at worst. I thought I would see what you guys would do next. This was the first load for the 168 Berger VLD, 42.5 Varget, BR-2, laupa brass, 100 yards out of my FCP-10.
OAL for my SMK 168 and 190 as well as 168n Amax is 2.80. Seated this one a little longer based on Bergers advice. Don't know if I sholud slow it down or change the OAL in or out. What is your alls expierence with Bergers?

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

2.810" COAL would indicate that you are WAY off the lands. Below is some info for you to try. You need to figure out base to ogive length first.

VLD loading tips

Josh

 

[reeljob]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

I was using the 2.810 based on what the Berger Rep said was the length in thier test load. I felt it was short based on what I have read on Bergers needing to be seated "way out".
Thanks for the link! Not much easy to find data on Bergers I have found.

 

[jrob300]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

Read the Berger writeup that was linked... every rifle is very different. I have a load for my 300WM shooting JLK's (very similar to the Bergers)that is mag length tolerant that jumps over .250" and shoots pretty little cloverleafs.

John

ETA: What to do next... I load until my groups are amallest, then vary seating depth to fine tune.

 

[6.5x61Super]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

when I used to shoot Bergers...

I loaded 0.020" off the lands...others have hit the "sweet" spot 0.040" to 0.060" off...others have jammed into the lands....

do you know FOR SURE what your base to lands dimensions is?

 

[Grumulkin]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

I load Berger VLDs in 300 Weatherby Magnum and 257 Weatherby Magnum loads for a Blaser R 93 and they shoot very well. Magazine considerations dictate that the bullets are fairly far off the lands but the Bergers shoot very well anyway.

As far as whether to speed them up or slow them down; who knows? The only way to tell would be to shoot loads with a little lower and a little higher powder charges.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

If you can touch the lands and still be mag friendly, start there. If not, use the max mag length to start. I like your velocity at 42.5, you either have a fast barrel or fast powder as I don't get those speeds until I'm past 45.5 grains of varget.

 

[bodywerks]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

You are low on powder(I run 44 grains of varget under 175g bullets - you should be around 44-46 grains) and WAY short on length. Find out how long you have to be to be into the lands. Start there, and if anything, GO LONGER!!! I know guys that jam the VLD's as much as .015" INTO, not off of, the lands. On my savage .223, the 70VLD's needed to be .005" into the lands to fly right - anything off the lands produced junk groups. They are a finicky bullet but once you find the sweet spot they are practically unbeatable.

 

[bodywerks]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can touch the lands and still be mag friendly, start there. If not, use the max mag length to start. I like your velocity at 42.5, you either have a fast barrel or fast powder as I don't get those speeds until I'm past 45.5 grains of varget.
</div></div>Probably barrel length/type differences, unless you have the same gun? Or altitude differences. The FCP's have a 24" barrel. He also has a LOOOOOOOOOONG way to go still as far as velocity is concerned. My FCP-k launches 175 grain bullets at 2745, and when I used to shoot 168's I was at over 2800. I am currently launching 155 scenars at 2920...

 

[reeljob]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

Gave the barrel a good cleaning and here is my second five shot group at 100 yards. Moved the OAL to .015 off the lands, left evreything else alone. Should be around the same velocity but I going to wait to chrono after seeing what the load does at much longer ranges. Going to try to get to 300 this afternoon if all goes well. Thanks guys for your help so far. next steps will be seeing if I can get a little more speed while maintaining accuracy.

 

[16 Bore]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

That group sucks.

 

[redbullitt]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

a little better : P I run all mine very close to the lands, but until I got that powder charge up above 43 grains. I am running 44.0 right now, getting about 2660 or so And it shoots great.

Keep going, I was in the same boat.

 

[reeljob]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

Just tried the latest load at 300 and 400.
Group @ 300= 3.140 (4-shots)
Group @ 400= 2.90 (4-shots)

At first I was surprised my 400 was tighter than the 300 but I was shooting in a field and was much more stable from the 400 line. Shooting off pads and rear bag using same dope as my 168 Amax load. Mirage was awful and temps. around 80 degrees with light wind. I am sure I will play with the load some more but this looks like a great base line to begin working with.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

I load VLD's exclusively in several calibers. They are very good shooting bullets and perform well on all the deer I have shot with them. They are very sensitive to seat though! If you can load .010 into the lands that is where to start and close to this is where they generally shoot best. The .308's have been the easiest to find a load and seem to be more forgiving. I load them in 2 magazine fed rifles and cannot touch the lands....they were harder to find the sweet spot. What I do is start at mag length and back off in increments of .010 When you find one that shoots good then work with the powder charge. Once you find the sweet spot they shoot very well from 100 to way out there. I just finished working up some 155's for a POF .308 and seating change of just .010 made the difference between 1.5" and .75" groups. I like them alot in the finished product but they can take some work to get there if you cannot touch your lands. It looks like you are there...right where I fine tune to see if I can wring some more out of them.

 

[bodywerks]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: reeljob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gave the barrel a good cleaning and here is my second five shot group at 100 yards. Moved the OAL to .015 off the lands, left evreything else alone. Should be around the same velocity but I going to wait to chrono after seeing what the load does at much longer ranges. Going to try to get to 300 this afternoon if all goes well. Thanks guys for your help so far. next steps will be seeing if I can get a little more speed while maintaining accuracy.

</div></div>
That's a fine group! I'd say you are in an accuracy node for your barrel right there, and might even tighten the group up more by seating the bullet into the lands.
I'd be that you have another accuracy node at 2750+, maybe even 2800. Work up a load until you get heavy bolt lift and try to get an accuracy load that is slightly under your heavy bolt lift charge. If you are running lapua brass I bet you can run 45-46 grains no problem.

 

[reeljob]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

Looks like I have found the final load during this development process!
168 VLD
43.5 Varget
BR-2
Laupa brass
2.880 OAL
2743 FPS
Savage FCP 10
1-10 RH twist--24" barrel
.308

I did get the VLD to 2807 FPS with 45.0 grains but group size grew to .75 from .37 with the above load. This load did well at 300 and 400 also. Going to give the barrel another scrubbing and get ready for Thursdays match. Would love to have the extra velocity but willing to give up a little speed for accuracy. Hoping this will prove to be a great 600 yard hunting load, that is about all I can get on my lease.Software says 1772 fps@600 yards with 1172 ft/lbs vs. 1821 fps and 1237 ft/lbs. @ 600 yards if I stayed with the 2807 muzzle velocity.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: First group with Berger VLD's

That is good......Don't scrub the barrel....it is shooting good just shoot it!