I am having an issue with my load development. I am shooting three shot groups and the first shot is high and to the left, the next two shots are just about a half inch apart low and to the right at two hundred yards. I am testing the loads at too close of a range? The barrel is getting to cool for about ten minutes in between groups and the last two days of shooting has been at 35 and 39 degrees, so barrel is not hot or even warm. I do have only fired 38 rounds in the two days and before that the barrel was cleaned completly. The barrel has a total of 260 rounds fired though it. Anybody have any thoughts?
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First is off. Why??
- Thread starter Daxter
- Start date
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cold barrel has different poi from warm barrel </div></div>
That may be true, but on a quality rifle system it isn't. My factory Savage has the same POI from CCB to CB to blistering hot.
The OP's rifle may have that issue, but it shouldn't. Something would be wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cold barrel has different poi from warm barrel </div></div>
That may be true, but on a quality rifle system it isn't. My factory Savage has the same POI from CCB to CB to blistering hot.
The OP's rifle may have that issue, but it shouldn't. Something would be wrong.
Re: First is off. Why??
I think the suggestion for bigger (more numerous shot) groups is good. Fire 3 ten shot groups spacing the shots out about a minute per round. The rifle may be a 3" at 200 yard weapon.
I think the suggestion for bigger (more numerous shot) groups is good. Fire 3 ten shot groups spacing the shots out about a minute per round. The rifle may be a 3" at 200 yard weapon.
Re: First is off. Why??
I think the problem is 3 shot groups at 200 yards. There is simply not enough data there and too many variables (shooter and weather) with only three shots to get an accurate understanding.
I don't buy into the cold bore first shot, more like cold shooter first shot. If you said to me the first out of 10 shots was outside with the other 9 being 1/2 or 3/4 MOA then I might consider it. Cold CLEAN barrel however could produce a POI shift. Start your group shooting with a fouled barrel.
Try 5 shot groups at 100 yards or try the OCW method perhaps.
I think the problem is 3 shot groups at 200 yards. There is simply not enough data there and too many variables (shooter and weather) with only three shots to get an accurate understanding.
I don't buy into the cold bore first shot, more like cold shooter first shot. If you said to me the first out of 10 shots was outside with the other 9 being 1/2 or 3/4 MOA then I might consider it. Cold CLEAN barrel however could produce a POI shift. Start your group shooting with a fouled barrel.
Try 5 shot groups at 100 yards or try the OCW method perhaps.
Re: First is off. Why??
If I had a barrel that was that sensitive after one shot, due to heat....I'd get rid of it. I think it is far more likely he has a pressure point and should look very carefully at his bedding before doing anything else. Waste no more time until you eliminate the possibility. But, if it is caused by heat, (remote possibility) sell it before you dick around with solutions. Life is too short. BB
edit: What kind of gun are we talking about?
If I had a barrel that was that sensitive after one shot, due to heat....I'd get rid of it. I think it is far more likely he has a pressure point and should look very carefully at his bedding before doing anything else. Waste no more time until you eliminate the possibility. But, if it is caused by heat, (remote possibility) sell it before you dick around with solutions. Life is too short. BB
edit: What kind of gun are we talking about?
Re: First is off. Why??
Savage 110 BA. It is always the second shot that is different and the third shot is right next to the second shot. I dont think it is a temp issue. Could it be a clean barrel that is not settled down yet? (38 rounds since it was cleaned)
Savage 110 BA. It is always the second shot that is different and the third shot is right next to the second shot. I dont think it is a temp issue. Could it be a clean barrel that is not settled down yet? (38 rounds since it was cleaned)
Re: First is off. Why??
Without specifically ragging on Salvage, there's a reason most expensive Tactical Bolt Action Rifles are expensive...
Without specifically ragging on Salvage, there's a reason most expensive Tactical Bolt Action Rifles are expensive...
Re: First is off. Why??
What is it with this 3 shot group syndrome. Shoot some groups at 200yds. 5 shots minimum per group. Make sure POI is not the same as POA. This way you can maintain the same sight picture. 4" up should do it.
What is it with this 3 shot group syndrome. Shoot some groups at 200yds. 5 shots minimum per group. Make sure POI is not the same as POA. This way you can maintain the same sight picture. 4" up should do it.
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so are you saying savage is POS
wish i could have spent more but i needed to stay on a resonable budget </div></div>
Savage isn't a POS. It is simply the difference between a factory rifle and a custom build.
POI shifts due to heat are usually something that is fairly easily corrected. Check for ample free float and secure action to stock.
Someone with more knowledge than me may come along with more/better advice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so are you saying savage is POS
wish i could have spent more but i needed to stay on a resonable budget </div></div>
Savage isn't a POS. It is simply the difference between a factory rifle and a custom build.
POI shifts due to heat are usually something that is fairly easily corrected. Check for ample free float and secure action to stock.
Someone with more knowledge than me may come along with more/better advice.
Re: First is off. Why??
I have a assortment of rifles ranging from Savages to GAP's to BAT actioned car priced rigs. The 10FP is not blown away or left behind in the end by any of them. If you think savages are shit then so be it. I don't like remingtons. I wouldn't call them shit though.
I have a assortment of rifles ranging from Savages to GAP's to BAT actioned car priced rigs. The 10FP is not blown away or left behind in the end by any of them. If you think savages are shit then so be it. I don't like remingtons. I wouldn't call them shit though.
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the OCW method?? </div></div>
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the OCW method?? </div></div>
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134
Re: First is off. Why??
I had a Savage that I screwed a 308 barrel onto, and it would throw the first shot every time. It was repeatable, so I expected it. I later replaced that barrel with a 6.5x55 barrel, and it also threw the first shot. It was the same action, same stock, etc. only a different barrel. It was in a Choate Tactical stock with the aluminum V-block. The only thing I can figure is it had something to do with that action, or that particular stock. When it was in original .270 Win hunting rifle form in the original Savage crappy stock, it didn't throw the first shot. I just ended up selling the thing. It was accurate and the first shot was repeatable, but not something I cared to deal with every time. You might try bedding your rifle and see if it helps. Based on my experience it is not a reloading problem or a barrel problem, but most likely an action to stock fitment problem.
-Dan
I had a Savage that I screwed a 308 barrel onto, and it would throw the first shot every time. It was repeatable, so I expected it. I later replaced that barrel with a 6.5x55 barrel, and it also threw the first shot. It was the same action, same stock, etc. only a different barrel. It was in a Choate Tactical stock with the aluminum V-block. The only thing I can figure is it had something to do with that action, or that particular stock. When it was in original .270 Win hunting rifle form in the original Savage crappy stock, it didn't throw the first shot. I just ended up selling the thing. It was accurate and the first shot was repeatable, but not something I cared to deal with every time. You might try bedding your rifle and see if it helps. Based on my experience it is not a reloading problem or a barrel problem, but most likely an action to stock fitment problem.
-Dan
Re: First is off. Why??
I tend to agree with ddavis. That's a lot smarter than MORE shooting. The man needs to STOP shooting and find out what's wrong. I don't think it matters much if the first shot is a significant flier followed by two more, or nine more.
Sudden thought! Why not fire one shot and take a break, have a couple soft drinks then fire one shot, (again) and see if they touch? Oh wait! I said stop shooting, didn't I?
Well, hold off at least until the bedding is examined and verified by somebody with accuracy experience. If you don't know anybody, I guess I can take a look at it.
PM me. or ship to BB % Fulsom, CA
I tend to agree with ddavis. That's a lot smarter than MORE shooting. The man needs to STOP shooting and find out what's wrong. I don't think it matters much if the first shot is a significant flier followed by two more, or nine more.
Sudden thought! Why not fire one shot and take a break, have a couple soft drinks then fire one shot, (again) and see if they touch? Oh wait! I said stop shooting, didn't I?
Well, hold off at least until the bedding is examined and verified by somebody with accuracy experience. If you don't know anybody, I guess I can take a look at it.
PM me. or ship to BB % Fulsom, CA
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so are you saying savage is POS
wish i could have spent more but i needed to stay on a resonable budget </div></div>
No... What I'm saying is that ANY factory built rifle that's relatively inexpensive should not be expected to perform the same as a custom built expensive rifle. They just don't put the time and effort into them. While I'm definitely not a Savage fan I also realize there are poorly built Remington's too. In most cases ya get what ya pay for... MOST cases.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so are you saying savage is POS
wish i could have spent more but i needed to stay on a resonable budget </div></div>
No... What I'm saying is that ANY factory built rifle that's relatively inexpensive should not be expected to perform the same as a custom built expensive rifle. They just don't put the time and effort into them. While I'm definitely not a Savage fan I also realize there are poorly built Remington's too. In most cases ya get what ya pay for... MOST cases.
Re: First is off. Why??
Completly understand what you are saying and what everybody else is posting. I just have a hard time finding out why this rifle is having such a hard time shooting good groups, when I have other rifles that I am into for a about a thrid of this one and those rifles are out shooting savages "top shelf" rifle or so I was told it was "top shelf." (ie. remm 300 win, remm 22-250, ruger 243, ruger 280, all shot better) I am not here to pick a fight with anyone, just a little pissed at the problems I am fighting with in this gun. Thanks for your input.
Completly understand what you are saying and what everybody else is posting. I just have a hard time finding out why this rifle is having such a hard time shooting good groups, when I have other rifles that I am into for a about a thrid of this one and those rifles are out shooting savages "top shelf" rifle or so I was told it was "top shelf." (ie. remm 300 win, remm 22-250, ruger 243, ruger 280, all shot better) I am not here to pick a fight with anyone, just a little pissed at the problems I am fighting with in this gun. Thanks for your input.
Re: First is off. Why??
If its always the first shot I would seriously look at shooting fundamentals. Trigger control, breathing, body alignment, sight picture.
If its always the first shot I would seriously look at shooting fundamentals. Trigger control, breathing, body alignment, sight picture.
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuiggyB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If its always the first shot I would seriously look at shooting fundamentals. Trigger control, breathing, body alignment, sight picture.</div></div>
Not to be discounted, but he listed several other rifles that he uses and claims no similar issues? To me, it sounds like he has a problem with this particular rifle.
Now, there is the question of sighters or foulers. Yeah, kinda. But, it can be a symptom of a poor quality barrel. As far as I'm concerned, I am unhappy with a barrel that doesn't put the first round within the group. BB
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuiggyB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If its always the first shot I would seriously look at shooting fundamentals. Trigger control, breathing, body alignment, sight picture.</div></div>
Not to be discounted, but he listed several other rifles that he uses and claims no similar issues? To me, it sounds like he has a problem with this particular rifle.
Now, there is the question of sighters or foulers. Yeah, kinda. But, it can be a symptom of a poor quality barrel. As far as I'm concerned, I am unhappy with a barrel that doesn't put the first round within the group. BB
Re: First is off. Why??
I'm currently shooting a Savage 338 (110FCP HS). It's my first Savage and I bought it knowing that I was risking getting a "dud". Luckily I got a good one. I figured if I got one that didn't shoot I could screw on a top quality pre-chambered barrel and be good to go.
I wish you luck and it will be interesting to hear what the problem is.
I'm currently shooting a Savage 338 (110FCP HS). It's my first Savage and I bought it knowing that I was risking getting a "dud". Luckily I got a good one. I figured if I got one that didn't shoot I could screw on a top quality pre-chambered barrel and be good to go.
I wish you luck and it will be interesting to hear what the problem is.
Re: First is off. Why??
I go see my dealer that I bought it from tomorrow. My best case scenario is that the will buy the gun back. (very unlikely they are going to do that) Than I will pay the extra money and have a custom rifle built. I dont feel that I should have to pay 2K+ for a gun just to pull the barrel and put a custom barrel on to get it shot.
I go see my dealer that I bought it from tomorrow. My best case scenario is that the will buy the gun back. (very unlikely they are going to do that) Than I will pay the extra money and have a custom rifle built. I dont feel that I should have to pay 2K+ for a gun just to pull the barrel and put a custom barrel on to get it shot.
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, if POI walks consistantly from group to group, it's heat. </div></div>
I'm glad you are so sure of this, but I am unconvinced, unless..is this barrel fluted, by chance? Probably not? Is it a very thin pencil contour?
But, the poster said one shot, fired in ambient temperatures in the 30's, which printed off zero. The second and third shot were together. I think that's what he said, but I can't review it because I quoted you. Whatever?
Okay, maybe? But before I believe it, I would have to be sure the barrel is completely free floated and the action screws are tight and nothing is binding. Once we make that determination, I'm willing to listen to other possibilities.
He might try a business card before the first shot to be certain it is free floating, then try it again immediately following the first shot and see if anything has changed. He can also use that business card to apply a little upward pressure. Some barrels shoot a lot better with 3 or 4 pounds of upward pressure. That's what "they" say, anyway? BB
edit: I just looked at a 110BA. I have seen them here and there but didn't know what they were called. Anyway, they are fluted. A bad fluting job can cause barrel warp, with heat, I have no argument with that. Interesting. Maybe Fuzzball has a point?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, if POI walks consistantly from group to group, it's heat. </div></div>
I'm glad you are so sure of this, but I am unconvinced, unless..is this barrel fluted, by chance? Probably not? Is it a very thin pencil contour?
But, the poster said one shot, fired in ambient temperatures in the 30's, which printed off zero. The second and third shot were together. I think that's what he said, but I can't review it because I quoted you. Whatever?
Okay, maybe? But before I believe it, I would have to be sure the barrel is completely free floated and the action screws are tight and nothing is binding. Once we make that determination, I'm willing to listen to other possibilities.
He might try a business card before the first shot to be certain it is free floating, then try it again immediately following the first shot and see if anything has changed. He can also use that business card to apply a little upward pressure. Some barrels shoot a lot better with 3 or 4 pounds of upward pressure. That's what "they" say, anyway? BB
edit: I just looked at a 110BA. I have seen them here and there but didn't know what they were called. Anyway, they are fluted. A bad fluting job can cause barrel warp, with heat, I have no argument with that. Interesting. Maybe Fuzzball has a point?
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And im a savage fan</div></div>
The custom builders that are around here... (snowy mtn rifles and bull mountain rifles they started at 3,800+)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And im a savage fan</div></div>
The custom builders that are around here... (snowy mtn rifles and bull mountain rifles they started at 3,800+)
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2k for a savage???? you could have built a great good rifle for that</div></div>
You are right though. Sticker price was $2,099 and I have another $400 into just the gun not counting the scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2k for a savage???? you could have built a great good rifle for that</div></div>
You are right though. Sticker price was $2,099 and I have another $400 into just the gun not counting the scope.
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime a POI shift is consistant it's due to heat. </div></div>
This is not always the case. I have an AA GDMR 6.5 Grendel that suddenly began throwing a shot 1/2 MOA @ 100 yds. The first shot would always impact POA while the second shot would impact 1/2 MOA right. The third shot would mark either the first or second. After checking the gun, ammo, and me, I swapped scopes and everything was good. In my case, it was a Leupold Mk4 and I called Leupold, informed them of the problem and sent it back for repair.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime a POI shift is consistant it's due to heat. </div></div>
This is not always the case. I have an AA GDMR 6.5 Grendel that suddenly began throwing a shot 1/2 MOA @ 100 yds. The first shot would always impact POA while the second shot would impact 1/2 MOA right. The third shot would mark either the first or second. After checking the gun, ammo, and me, I swapped scopes and everything was good. In my case, it was a Leupold Mk4 and I called Leupold, informed them of the problem and sent it back for repair.
Re: First is off. Why??
decent pillar bedded laminate stock 400 ish bux. brux barrel 340 ish bux, savage target action. 550 bux. couple hundred bux to have a competant smith put it together and you can have a damn good rifle for well under 2k
decent pillar bedded laminate stock 400 ish bux. brux barrel 340 ish bux, savage target action. 550 bux. couple hundred bux to have a competant smith put it together and you can have a damn good rifle for well under 2k
Re: First is off. Why??
got price from Harts at recent show to true a remi action and intall a new barrel for 650 ish bux and his laminated benchrest stock is 300 but you gota clear it so there is 950 bux. add a trigger 1150 bux and the donor rifle is a 300 dollar remi 700. All that and some wood finish you got a rifle for 1450 bux.
got price from Harts at recent show to true a remi action and intall a new barrel for 650 ish bux and his laminated benchrest stock is 300 but you gota clear it so there is 950 bux. add a trigger 1150 bux and the donor rifle is a 300 dollar remi 700. All that and some wood finish you got a rifle for 1450 bux.
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so are you saying savage is POS
wish i could have spent more but i needed to stay on a resonable budget </div></div>
Shhhhh!, dont let my consistant 1/4 savage 10fcp-k hear that!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so are you saying savage is POS
wish i could have spent more but i needed to stay on a resonable budget </div></div>
Shhhhh!, dont let my consistant 1/4 savage 10fcp-k hear that!
Re: First is off. Why??
Hell I would have probably givin my left eye (non shooting eye) for those kind of results in my 110BA. Sending it back to Savage, hoping to get a new rifle out of the deal and start over with loads. Glad to hear you had good success!
Hell I would have probably givin my left eye (non shooting eye) for those kind of results in my 110BA. Sending it back to Savage, hoping to get a new rifle out of the deal and start over with loads. Glad to hear you had good success!
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage 110 BA. It is always the second shot that is different and the third shot is right next to the second shot. I dont think it is a temp issue. Could it be a clean barrel that is not settled down yet? (38 rounds since it was cleaned) </div></div>
How far apart is the CBS, from the #2/#3 pair, in inches?
This is only a sample size of two, but my 10FP took a good 700 rounds (1.5ish MOA) to settle down to where it's a consistent ~.75 MOA rifle with the 150s-190s, over the past 2600+ rounds.
Not saying that 700 rounds is the norm for a break-in period and it's no doubt an unusually high round count, but one does have to put a good 100-200 rounds down a new barrel, especially a factory, non-lapped barrel, before one makes any hard, or fast, assessments.
My Savage 12 VLP in 22-250, bought at the same time in '05, started shooting pretty well right out of the box.
I agree with some of the other people in that Savage doesn't give a guarantee on barrel accuracy, like the custom guys do and they do this for a reason--they'd rather not say it's 2 MOA guaranteed.
I have a Sako TRG-42 and no Sako rifle, whether it's a hunting rifle, or it's a competition rifle, leaves their factory unless it can put five shots into an inch, or better, at 100 yds/m.
We all hope our factory barrels shoot well out of the box, but realistically, 1 MOA-1.5 MOA is probably what Savage is striving for with 5 shot groups and that weapon.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daxter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage 110 BA. It is always the second shot that is different and the third shot is right next to the second shot. I dont think it is a temp issue. Could it be a clean barrel that is not settled down yet? (38 rounds since it was cleaned) </div></div>
How far apart is the CBS, from the #2/#3 pair, in inches?
This is only a sample size of two, but my 10FP took a good 700 rounds (1.5ish MOA) to settle down to where it's a consistent ~.75 MOA rifle with the 150s-190s, over the past 2600+ rounds.
Not saying that 700 rounds is the norm for a break-in period and it's no doubt an unusually high round count, but one does have to put a good 100-200 rounds down a new barrel, especially a factory, non-lapped barrel, before one makes any hard, or fast, assessments.
My Savage 12 VLP in 22-250, bought at the same time in '05, started shooting pretty well right out of the box.
I agree with some of the other people in that Savage doesn't give a guarantee on barrel accuracy, like the custom guys do and they do this for a reason--they'd rather not say it's 2 MOA guaranteed.
I have a Sako TRG-42 and no Sako rifle, whether it's a hunting rifle, or it's a competition rifle, leaves their factory unless it can put five shots into an inch, or better, at 100 yds/m.
We all hope our factory barrels shoot well out of the box, but realistically, 1 MOA-1.5 MOA is probably what Savage is striving for with 5 shot groups and that weapon.
Chris
Re: First is off. Why??
I wouldn't get my hopes up, expecting Savage to take the rifle off your hands, if I were you. First of all, they have heard it a million times, what an expert shot you are, etc. etc. and "trust me, it's the rifle".
Besides that they will probably say the accuracy is within their parameters?
Speaking of which, you have never provided the size of these 3 shot groups; in inches. It's kinda vague to say:
"the first shot is high and to the left, the next two shots are just about a half inch apart low and to the right at two hundred yards."
In fact, you are a little short on all specifics. What's the chambering? What's the load, all components and bullet? BB
I wouldn't get my hopes up, expecting Savage to take the rifle off your hands, if I were you. First of all, they have heard it a million times, what an expert shot you are, etc. etc. and "trust me, it's the rifle".
Besides that they will probably say the accuracy is within their parameters?
Speaking of which, you have never provided the size of these 3 shot groups; in inches. It's kinda vague to say:
"the first shot is high and to the left, the next two shots are just about a half inch apart low and to the right at two hundred yards."
In fact, you are a little short on all specifics. What's the chambering? What's the load, all components and bullet? BB
Re: First is off. Why??
I bought mine not expecting any better than 1 MOA. I happened to get one that will shoot 1/4 MOA. It's a little like playing the lottery with these. If you want guaranteed accuracy you probably need to go custom.
I bought mine not expecting any better than 1 MOA. I happened to get one that will shoot 1/4 MOA. It's a little like playing the lottery with these. If you want guaranteed accuracy you probably need to go custom.
Re: First is off. Why??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't get my hopes up, expecting Savage to take the rifle off your hands, if I were you. First of all, they have heard it a million times, what an expert shot you are, etc. etc. and "trust me, it's the rifle".
Besides that they will probably say the accuracy is within their parameters?
Speaking of which, you have never provided the size of these 3 shot groups; in inches. It's kinda vague to say:
"the first shot is high and to the left, the next two shots are just about a half inch apart low and to the right at two hundred yards."
In fact, you are a little short on all specifics. What's the chambering? What's the load, all components and bullet? BB
</div></div> If there parameters are shooting a god damn 4 and a half inch group at 200 yds that is a fuckin joke. I have shot groups from three shots per to six shots and they are all over the place. AND where did I say I was an expert shot, I am an average joe that enjoys going out and putting rounds down range. I felt like I didnt have to put all the different loads down for you to see, though it would have been a waste of your time. But sense you asked i have been working with H1000 form 87 grs. up to 91grs. with lapua brass and fed 215 pimers using verying seating depths from .005 off back to .040 off lands. The best I ever shot was a .570 at 200 yds and never had been close to repeating it. I have also used RL-19, US 869, and Retumbo powders with zero consistant results. Hope I answered your questions but to me it seems i should have come acrossed something that the gun liked. Sorry to jump your shit but to me this is rediculous. Please resond.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't get my hopes up, expecting Savage to take the rifle off your hands, if I were you. First of all, they have heard it a million times, what an expert shot you are, etc. etc. and "trust me, it's the rifle".
Besides that they will probably say the accuracy is within their parameters?
Speaking of which, you have never provided the size of these 3 shot groups; in inches. It's kinda vague to say:
"the first shot is high and to the left, the next two shots are just about a half inch apart low and to the right at two hundred yards."
In fact, you are a little short on all specifics. What's the chambering? What's the load, all components and bullet? BB
</div></div> If there parameters are shooting a god damn 4 and a half inch group at 200 yds that is a fuckin joke. I have shot groups from three shots per to six shots and they are all over the place. AND where did I say I was an expert shot, I am an average joe that enjoys going out and putting rounds down range. I felt like I didnt have to put all the different loads down for you to see, though it would have been a waste of your time. But sense you asked i have been working with H1000 form 87 grs. up to 91grs. with lapua brass and fed 215 pimers using verying seating depths from .005 off back to .040 off lands. The best I ever shot was a .570 at 200 yds and never had been close to repeating it. I have also used RL-19, US 869, and Retumbo powders with zero consistant results. Hope I answered your questions but to me it seems i should have come acrossed something that the gun liked. Sorry to jump your shit but to me this is rediculous. Please resond.
Re: First is off. Why??
And now we get <span style="font-style: italic">the rest of the story</span>.....
Can't recall, and if you've mentioned it already I appologize I simply don't have the where with all to go back and look.....but seriously, how does this rifle do for you with quality factory ammo?
If you don't mind, please elaborate........
And now we get <span style="font-style: italic">the rest of the story</span>.....
Can't recall, and if you've mentioned it already I appologize I simply don't have the where with all to go back and look.....but seriously, how does this rifle do for you with quality factory ammo?
If you don't mind, please elaborate........
Re: First is off. Why??
I have shot one box of Rem 250gr Scenras and it didnt group all that, shot 5 four shot groups at one and two hundred yds. the best grouping i got was 3.75 moa. I had always planned to reload because the Scenras cost $6.25 a shot
I have shot one box of Rem 250gr Scenras and it didnt group all that, shot 5 four shot groups at one and two hundred yds. the best grouping i got was 3.75 moa. I had always planned to reload because the Scenras cost $6.25 a shot
Re: First is off. Why??
Bud, I think you are taking offense over a simple generalized statement I made, which was that Savage's fall back position will likely be that while everybody claims to be an expert shot, the facts usually say otherwise. And, it will hold very little weight with Savage if you tell them that you want your money back because it won't do minute of angle. Savage knows that they can't guarantee that everybody will shoot minute of angle, and just because you claim your perfect handloads aren't accurate enough for your needs; they would be justified in suggesting that your ability is in question, rather than their rifle.
I didn't say you can't shoot for shit. I speculated that Savage will likely feel that their product is good enough and who can really blame them?
So, I can apologize if you believe I cast aspersions on your ability, but I didn't do that. What I did was review everything you have told us, to date and discovered that you were indeed short on specifics. And, why shouldn't we have as much information as possible for evaluation. After all, you have asked for help and opinions, but the facts are pretty slim. That's all. So, cool your jets. I'm willing to admit that you are clearly the best shot in Billings and a good portion of Montana, if that will help? BB
PS
The only thing is, every rifle, we have high expectations. Sometimes we are pleased, with the gun and with ourselves, and sometimes it's not the tackdriver we expected. I wish every rifle I ever owned was a quarter incher, but some aren't. You have to expect some disappointments
Bud, I think you are taking offense over a simple generalized statement I made, which was that Savage's fall back position will likely be that while everybody claims to be an expert shot, the facts usually say otherwise. And, it will hold very little weight with Savage if you tell them that you want your money back because it won't do minute of angle. Savage knows that they can't guarantee that everybody will shoot minute of angle, and just because you claim your perfect handloads aren't accurate enough for your needs; they would be justified in suggesting that your ability is in question, rather than their rifle.
I didn't say you can't shoot for shit. I speculated that Savage will likely feel that their product is good enough and who can really blame them?
So, I can apologize if you believe I cast aspersions on your ability, but I didn't do that. What I did was review everything you have told us, to date and discovered that you were indeed short on specifics. And, why shouldn't we have as much information as possible for evaluation. After all, you have asked for help and opinions, but the facts are pretty slim. That's all. So, cool your jets. I'm willing to admit that you are clearly the best shot in Billings and a good portion of Montana, if that will help? BB
PS
The only thing is, every rifle, we have high expectations. Sometimes we are pleased, with the gun and with ourselves, and sometimes it's not the tackdriver we expected. I wish every rifle I ever owned was a quarter incher, but some aren't. You have to expect some disappointments
