Hunting & Fishing  first muzzle loader

Jig Stick

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 27, 2010
1,439
3
41
Pittsburgh PA
im looking to buy my first muzzle loader. I have no experience with them at all. Im looking for an inline. Primarily for PA white tail deer. 200yd max shot. can someone advise me? cost is no big deal
 

Wardy

"Gordy"
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 27, 2008
488
3
45
North Eastern NC
Re: first muzzle loader

I have a CVA Optima and love it, very accurate with Blackhorn 209 and Thor Conicals. It'll put 3 in the same hole.
I work with a guy who had a 45 built in a TC Prohunter frame that shoots smokeless powder and shoots 3" groups at 500 yrds. Think it cost around $1500 for that plus the action. I'm pretty satisfied with my $350 CVA, but I only use mine for 2 weeks..my friend spends a lot of money on out of state hunts that doesn't have a rifle season so his cost maybe justified..

I feel comfortable with mine to 250 yards, and if he's big enough maybe, maybe 300...fwiw.
 

Tripwire

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2006
6
3
55
VA
Re: first muzzle loader

Knight KP1...prolly ain't gonna find many of 'em anymore though.

Helluva shooter.....

HPIM2662.jpg
 

bornhunter04

Online Training Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 27, 2011
324
35
36
STL, MO
Re: first muzzle loader

Knight quit manufacturing rifles, they were good guns except for that silly little orange disc that held the primers.....

CVA's are GTG and so are TC's. I'm running a TC impact right now and Love it! Shoots damn good for a sub $200 gun! My taxidermist has an omega z5 and the only thing we don't like is how hard it is to get a primer out. Just the way it's designed doesn't leave alot of room to get your fingers in there, especially if your wearing gloves.

Go handle a few and see what feels right in your hands. Just like a rifle, you need to be confident with your gun, then get some 777 and a few different bullets to see which one it likes best. Oh and be sure you get an inline that takes 209 primers and not #11's, those are becoming a thing of the past but there's still a few around.
 

Tripwire

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2006
6
3
55
VA
Re: first muzzle loader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bornhunter04</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Knight quit manufacturing rifles, they were good guns except for that silly little orange disc that held the primers.....

My taxidermist has an omega z5 and the only thing we don't like is how hard it is to get a primer out. Just the way it's designed doesn't leave alot of room to get your fingers in there, especially if your wearing gloves.
</div></div>

I'd tell you all about the little round plastic primer holders that my knight has, and that an extractor system is present for very easy removal of the 209 primer, even with gloves....but you said that's all "silly".
 

Prov 18:19

Private
Minuteman
Nov 30, 2011
41
0
59
Kentucky
Re: first muzzle loader

Savage 110ML with accutrigger in stainless. Shoots smokeless powder so cleaning is simple. I shoot 44 grains of 5744 behind a 300 grain sabot round and have clean kills at 100 yards.

sorry that is the Savage 10ML II.
 

bornhunter04

Online Training Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 27, 2011
324
35
36
STL, MO
Re: first muzzle loader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bornhunter04</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Knight quit manufacturing rifles, they were good guns except for that silly little orange disc that held the primers.....

My taxidermist has an omega z5 and the only thing we don't like is how hard it is to get a primer out. Just the way it's designed doesn't leave alot of room to get your fingers in there, especially if your wearing gloves.
</div></div>

I'd tell you all about the little round plastic primer holders that my knight has, and that an extractor system is present for very easy removal of the 209 primer, even with gloves....but you said that's all "silly". </div></div>

Yes i myself think it's silly, because it's just adding something to the process. I don't doubt that it works, but what if you drop the orange thing or forget it or what if you only have one, and you have to pull that out pop that primer out and insert new primer then install the disc back into the breech....Am i right in that's how it functions? Just out of curiosity, how many orange discs come with the rifle? I'm just thinking about Morphy's law.....Personally I've had enough bad luck when a big boy shows up that i try not to introduce any thing i deem unnecessary to the system.

The omega z5 is a falling block type action and it just doesn't leave enough room to really get in there fast and remove the spent primer, something I've never had with a break action. Although this might be exclusive to that model, I've only messed with a sample size of one so for other models this might be a moot issue.

I looked at knight when i started thinking about a new inline because i know they're reputation as tack-drivers, but i didn't like the orange disc and the fact that they stopped producing them is a large deterrent.

advice to the op, go to a store like cabelas or basspro that usually carries a large selection of front-stuffer's and check them all out and do your research. Hunting with a muzzle loader can be aggravating and rewarding all at the same time!
 

Tripwire

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2006
6
3
55
VA
Re: first muzzle loader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bornhunter04</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes i myself think it's silly, because it's just adding something to the process. I don't doubt that it works, but what if you drop the orange thing or forget it or what if you only have one, and you have to pull that out pop that primer out and insert new primer then install the disc back into the breech....Am i right in that's how it functions? Just out of curiosity, how many orange discs come with the rifle? I'm just thinking about Morphy's law.....Personally I've had enough bad luck when a big boy shows up that i try not to introduce any thing i deem unnecessary to the system.

The omega z5 is a falling block type action and it just doesn't leave enough room to really get in there fast and remove the spent primer, something I've never had with a break action. Although this might be exclusive to that model, I've only messed with a sample size of one so for other models this might be a moot issue.

I looked at knight when i started thinking about a new inline because i know they're reputation as tack-drivers, but i didn't like the orange disc and the fact that they stopped producing them is a large deterrent.

</div></div>

LOT'S of rifles in the woods that are out of production, and doing just fine.

Like the 77/50 Ruger Officer's Model that I handed down to my oldest son when I got the KP1.

Gotta love the faction that tries to interject "easy" into the blackpowder game....'course, I'm of the sort that would tell you a flintlock is a simple and reliable system, so I have a hard time feeling any pain over it.

Though I believe you are thinking about the knight disc rifle, which is a different animal from the KP1 design, you're right about the little plastic thingy in my KP1 being a real pain in the ass. Easy to see, easy to handle, easy to find if you drop it in the grass/leaves, easy to extract, seals the system from every kind of wet a hunter can find himself in, etc.....silly, really.

kp11.jpg

kp2.jpg
 

Tackleberry

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 16, 2005
882
16
possumneck, ms
Re: first muzzle loader

I love my T/C Encore. Shooting barnes 285gr expander mz's it shoots great and has taken many deer. If you have any interest in a Knight I have a MK85 that is collecting lots of dust. In Miss. our "primative weapons" rules have changed. I now shoot a encore in 375 H&H as my primative weapon so blackpowder doesn't happen for me here anymore.
 

Manzgear

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 10, 2011
407
2
43
Roundup, MT
Re: first muzzle loader

I have a CVA optima elite- they dont sell them anywhere except on gunbroker anymore that I know of but its a hell of shooter as well. I have only owned CVA muzzle loaders. the optima elite and the APEX both accept rifle barrels made by CVA/bergerra - and their rifle barrels are shooters as well. I dont know what the barrel length is on the new apex but the optima elite is 27or 28 inches long and shooting 250yards is nothing. I have never tried 300 but I believe it would not be an issue. Best of luck with your purchase.
 

XTR

F-TR junkie
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Sep 4, 2010
    2,014
    743
    Lebanon, NH
    www.onlinehumidor.com
    Re: first muzzle loader

    I use a stainless Knight Rolling block, it was about the cheapest thing in stainless at Bass Pro last year. It uses 209 primers not the silly holders, it's killed 3 deer (two opening day of muzzle loader this yr) in the last 2 yrs at 150/130/135 yds.

    I love my Bushnell 250 DOA scope, the bullet drop reticle is spot on for me. I'm loading Thompson Shockwave 250 sabots over 100gn of Triple 7. (I use loose powder, but in testing I get the same POI as pellets.)

    The Bushnell is spot on for me at 100 and 200.
     

    Niles Coyote

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 13, 2007
    4,337
    920
    South West, MI
    Re: first muzzle loader

    I bought the barrel several years ago when T/C came out with the Katahdin line, but I have not seen many since. Makes for a wonderfully well balanced package and handles great in the stand and/or thick woods seen below.

    A foggy view from my stand opening morning Nov 15th.
    deerseason2011-home001-1.jpg

     

    Niles Coyote

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 13, 2007
    4,337
    920
    South West, MI
    Re: first muzzle loader

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Manzgear</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that is a nice Deer! </div></div>

    Thanks, I have been very lucky the last few years. I think my streak has ended. I been seeing deer but nothing really worth putting the time effort on harvesting/processing this year.

    edited to add, I searched and found a 20" pro-hunter barrel on eabco.com/tcencore209X50.html that is stainless. I purchased my frame as a handgun (15" muzzleloader to be exact, liked it a lot but when I saw the 20” I traded it off) so I am good to go for handgun barrels whenever I want.
     

    XTR

    F-TR junkie
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Sep 4, 2010
    2,014
    743
    Lebanon, NH
    www.onlinehumidor.com
    Re: first muzzle loader

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tackleberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...In Miss. our "primative weapons" rules have changed. ... </div></div>

    I read this somewhere else recently, and there is probably no reason not too. The Deer population is booming. In TN the harvest over 160,000 deer each yr for the last 2 yrs in a row.. If only TN would adopt the same rules I'd be in the woods all season with my 1885 45-70.

    If more states go the way MS has look for a new resurgence of single shot big bores. Ruger #1s and Win 1885s would be on everyone's Christmas lists.