First Purchase Advice

[cdisalvo]

Hi...I'm new to this so please bear with me if I ask a stupid question.

I'm looking for a decent starter rifle, one that will allow me to compete locally and maybe branch out and experience some of the bigger tournaments. I've pretty much settled on a Remington 700 of one variation or another and other than 223 caliber, I have no other experience reloading rifle cartridges.

What I'd like to ask is :

* Is 223 a viable option for a beginner ? I have lots of brass and the infrastructure is already in place to reload in quanity.

* Barrel length choices...20, 24, or 26 inches in length ?

* Is a stock change needed and if so, which manufacture do you recommend ?

* Scope choices...what would you purchase to get started ?

Thank you VERY much for your input. It is appreciated.

Chuck

 

[CleanMoostang]

First off, welcome!

If your just starting but already have experiencing atleast reloading somewhat, your off to a good start. At minimum, if your wanting to reach out past 700yd ACCURATELY, I wouldn't settle with anything less than .308. Wont lie, there is plenty of calibers out there that will easily beat a .308s brains out, hence why I am currently switching, but materials are easy to find and there is nothing fancy about the cartridge.

You can get 700's in HS precision stocks, and other name brands, so you might not have to switch if you spend the penny up front. But just a hogue stock, or a cheapo wont do it.

Dont go less than 24'' barrel, this is where you start losing muzzle velocity badly and that turns in to accuracy and stability the further out. I had a 20" bull SPS barrel and it was a bughole shooter at 100-200, but past 700 I struggled, as my MV was less than 2550.

For a start scope, you CANNOT beat a SWFA.com SS fixed power. I would go with a 16x or 20x power, the 10 is ok but the further out you go, the smaller everything is gonna be viewing wise. Not to mention you not breaking $300 usually and its quality glass.

Now with all that said, and you want to shoot up all your .223 stuff, I know seveal people with great shooting .223 rifles and they are a blast, but dont expect to be shooting with the .30cals and .243's at distance..

 

[bkw1911]

223 is not a horrible option and you can compete out to 750yds pretty easy if using 75-80gr amaxs or vlds. I wouldnt go remington personally due to the twist rate of the barrels. You can get a tikka varmint with a 1-8" twist barrel and shoot the real heavy bullets. I would just do the 20" barrel. The tikka is also pretty accurate out of the box and for a guy on a budget its nice not having to immediately upgrade the stock and trigger just to get it to shoot under an inch. The downside to 223 is that you usually can shoot it at a local match but you will be limited to a 6mm minimum in bigger matches. Ive got a vortex viper pst 2.5-10x32ffp on a 223 that i shoot the 80gr amaxs in and i find its the perfect power range for the rifles capabilities and gives me mil/mil ffp target turrets and side parallax with pretty minimal weight.

 

[JRM83]

A round of Savage .308 10TRs just hit the market, seems most are gone now. If you keep your eyes open one might pop up. Great value - accustock, accutrigger, threaded muzzle, tactical bolt knob, and a 1-piece rail for around $425 - $450 depending on where you source it.

 

[godofthunder]

A round of Savage .308 10TRs just hit the market, seems most are gone now. If you keep your eyes open one might pop up. Great value - accustock, accutrigger, threaded muzzle, tactical bolt knob, and a 1-piece rail for around $425 - $450 depending on where you source it.

I managed to snag a 20" version and plan on using it out to 800. Hopefully it will do that fine, opted out of a 24" so it would be more manageable with a suppressor on the end.

 

[cdisalvo]

223 is not a horrible option and you can compete out to 750yds pretty easy if using 75-80gr amaxs or vlds. I wouldnt go remington personally due to the twist rate of the barrels. You can get a tikka varmint with a 1-8" twist barrel and shoot the real heavy bullets. I would just do the 20" barrel. The tikka is also pretty accurate out of the box and for a guy on a budget its nice not having to immediately upgrade the stock and trigger just to get it to shoot under an inch. The downside to 223 is that you usually can shoot it at a local match but you will be limited to a 6mm minimum in bigger matches. Ive got a vortex viper pst 2.5-10x32ffp on a 223 that i shoot the 80gr amaxs in and i find its the perfect power range for the rifles capabilities and gives me mil/mil ffp target turrets and side parallax with pretty minimal weight.

What do you mean by "limited to a 6mm minimum in bigger matches?" Is that a caliber restriction or do you mean .223 won't "cut the mustard" at the longer distances ?

Thank you for your reply !

Chuck

 

[Shanerbanner10]

.223 would be a great place to start.

Something most way want to know is what your budget (if there is one) on this purchase would be. There are many factors that play into making these suggestions you seak.

You may want to look into .308, 6.5 creed, .260. If you are seriously thinknig about shooting matches in your future. .308 would be the easiest as there are compontets if you are willing to look. As for glass, I would ask how far are you looking to shoot max? and what are you needs? How well do you know the Mil system?

 

[Rattler56]

First off, welcome!

If your just starting but already have experiencing at least reloading somewhat, your off to a good start. At minimum, if your wanting to reach out past 700yd ACCURATELY, I wouldn't settle with anything less than .308. Wont lie, there is plenty of calibers out there that will easily beat a .308s brains out, hence why I am currently switching, but materials are easy to find and there is nothing fancy about the cartridge.

You can get 700's in HS precision stocks, and other name brands, so you might not have to switch if you spend the penny up front. But just a hogue stock, or a cheapo wont do it.

Dont go less than 24'' barrel, this is where you start losing muzzle velocity badly and that turns in to accuracy and stability the further out. I had a 20" bull SPS barrel and it was a bughole shooter at 100-200, but past 700 I struggled, as my MV was less than 2550.

For a start scope, you CANNOT beat a SWFA.com SS fixed power. I would go with a 16x or 20x power, the 10 is ok but the further out you go, the smaller everything is gonna be viewing wise. Not to mention you not breaking $300 usually and its quality glass.

Now with all that said, and you want to shoot up all your .223 stuff, I know seveal people with great shooting .223 rifles and they are a blast, but dont expect to be shooting with the .30cals and .243's at distance..

This is good advice,I would go with a Rem 700 SPS Varmint which is a heavy barrel 26" I believe, 20MOA one pice TPS rail ( steal alloy ) cheaper then Nightforce
a SWFA SS 16X fixed with quality rings, theres a ton of upgrades from here.
Next I would get a trigger,I like the Timney, then stock and most importantly go shoot.

 

[Deerhunter 28]

Take a look at the Remington 700 Police.
Comes in .223,.308 300 Win Mag and maybe a few more.
Nice HS stock and a little better trigger than a standard 700.
Maybe 40X B trigger not sure?
Someone else help here?
Heard of them being as low as $850.00 to $1,050.00.
Def take a look.
Optics as much as you can afford!!
Buy once cry once?????
Sky is the limit!!!!!!
Good luck.


PSE EVO 60 Lbs.
Blacked out

 

[Randfal]

What I'd like to ask is :

* Is 223 a viable option for a beginner ? I have lots of brass and the infrastructure is already in place to reload in quanity.I think a 223 is a good choice. The more affordable it is to shot... the more you are going to shot.

* Barrel length choices...20, 24, or 26 inches in length ? The longer the barrel the more velocity. If you are trying to compete on the fringe of the 223s range, I'd go long to gain you some speed. Every bit helps with the 223. If just shooting in "carbine length" events, I would shoot prefer a shorter barrel. They handle so nice.

* Is a stock change needed and if so, which manufacture do you recommend ? Lets face it, If its not a HS or B&C in a factory Remy, it's going to leave a lot to be desired in the stock department. Starting with a stock Remy is hindrance enough.
* Scope choices...what would you purchase to get started ? Lots will say cry once and buy expensive in regards to the scope. I agree with them. But that doesn't mean you have to overlook all "less expensive" scopes. I have several SIII Sightrons, Vortex 6-24, Several Vortex Vipers, Had a NXS and still have a Nightforce 12-42 BR Scope, I've had a 6-20 Zeiss, spent some time with a SS10x and Bushnell 5-15Elites, I have a 4-16 Millett TRS(5years old), have 3 Nikon 6-18 Buckmasters......what I'm getting at is I've got and had more scopes than a lot of the one-two rifle owners out there. In what I call the starter range of acceptable scopes ($250-$500 range), I lean toward the standard Vortex Viper or the Viper HS 4-16 scopes. They are very well built and the three I have all track well and at 20x I can clearly see the center knocked out of a clay pigeon at 600yds. A lot of scopes in that range don't have the contrast/clarity to do that believe it or not. If you just have to go on the cheap end, go with a Millett 4-16 TRS scope, yeah they are made in china but that model is made better than most in china. I've had one on an AR for 5yrs and it has been a great scope. It has slayed many many a prairie dog and jack rabbit. I still say buy better, but understand you have to start somewhere and if price keeps you from buying and starting, then we've lost a shooter.

Now for my stab.....ditch the Remington idea and find a TikKa varmint model in 223. They come with 1:8 twist barrels and you can use 6rd extended mags for quick changes. I like to play the odds. Odds are better you'll get a great shooter in a factory Tikka. No trigger needed, No faster twist barrel needed, no bottom metal needed, no action truing needed, no work to smooth up the bolt needed, Just saying....

Now get out there and shoot!

Thank you VERY much for your input. It is appreciated.

Chuck

 

[fdkay]

1. The .223 is a fine starter round for learning
2. You will handicap yourself in competition with the .223
3. Most factory rifles have too slow a twist to stabilize the heavy .223 pills (except the aforementioned Tika)

I, personally, would look to the .308. MANY rifles that are suitable right from the factory, at a reasonable price.
Some version of the 10FP, 700 varmint, CZ varmint, Howa varmint etc...

Just be aware, many of the budget heavy barrel rifles (less than 600 dollars) will need a new stock. Figure to add an additional 230 bucks for a B&C or Choate tactical if you are on a budget, bringing your total over 800.

If you are reasonably handy and think you could acra-glass a stock, this is a very good option:
Remington 700 VLS .308 Varmint Laminated $813.00 SHIPS FREE

 

[DropinLead]

The 223 and 308 ammo for match grade stuff is essentially the same price.
223 easier top shoot although for competition they are both int he same class but 308 is a lot more popular.
223 and 308 rifles are about the same price gives a specific model.
$350 optic from Millet will get you going nicely for example. Opt for a Vortex in $600 or so range if you want something a bit more premium. Lots and lots of options, check supporting vendors links.
I see Remington 700's in shops for about $1K give or take a few hundred depending on the exact model.

For F Class TR class (target rifle) is is still .223 or .308. Open class is another story but that is a WHOLE other deal.

Lots of "better" calibers but not as much ammo choices and parts array. 308 is definitely the center of the universe as it were as far as parts and support and ammo is concerned.

Go to your local shop or big box outdoor retailer, they will have something to get started. Look for the "tactical" variety not "hunting" variety. Some models have "varmint" rifles, kind of a tactical rifle set up in a hunting stock. Barrel weight and often stock is different, you'll want varmint or tactical or Police models most likely. Buy Match grade ammo and avoid frustration of cheaper range stuff.

My .02.

Good luck!

 

[Graham]

First Purchase Advice

.308
20" or longer barrel
PSS or 5R or LTR
10x or 12x Mil/Mil SWFA Super Sniper
NF or Badger base and rings
Harris swivel 6-9 notched legs

 

[mkollman74]

If I were in your shoes, I'd buy a Tikka in .308 and shoot the urine out of it. Then, I'd try to fund some training and use that to both learn everything I could soak up as well as wring out my gear and see what I might like to upgrade. With the Tikka in .308 you'd have a lot of flexibility for the future. Good stock/chassis options, including KRG (my personal favorite). The.308 bolt face will let you roll with the most popular competition calibers if you decide to go that way.

 

[cdisalvo]

The Tikka is a nice looking rifle. I never knew they existed actually which lends credence to the fact that I am truly a novice at this stuff.

Are there any sanctioning bodies that I can join to gather additional info ? Kind of like there's USPSA and IDPA for practical pistol competitors ?

So far, I think an out of teh box Tikka would be my best investment. I'm still deciding caliber. I'd like to stick with .223 for budgetary reasons but I see the value in .308.

Keep the advice coming....it is REALLY helpful.

Thanks !

 

[jtrax]

I managed to snag a 20" version and plan on using it out to 800. Hopefully it will do that fine, opted out of a 24" so it would be more manageable with a suppressor on the end.

I've successfully taken a 20" barreled .308 Win. out to 1,090 yards (witnessed).

 

[CleanMoostang]

I've successfully taken a 20" barreled .308 Win. out to 1,090 yards (witnessed).

Ive done the same thing with my 20" SPS .308 1/12tw Rem700, but more than likely it wont group and be as accurate as say a 24-26" .308

 

[GrantA]

Here's a 308 I noticed for sale here on the hide, all you'd need are some low scope rings, not sure why it has an AR scope mount on it. Selling that mount would buy you some rings though
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ler-old-school-rem-700-pss-308-w-leupold.html