First Schmidt and Bender?

IdahoSpud

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I'm new to ELR but want to learn and do PRS matches in the future. Scope will also be used for hunting. I'm pretty sure I want a PMII 5-25, but I don't know which reticle to choose. I was thinking LRR MIL. Is there any reason to choose a different one like the tremor? I've never used a tree like that before and it seems super cluttered.


Also does anyone know where to buy one? All the usual sites are backordered and local stores are out. Covid related....?

The only one I could find is this one which seems to be some sort of modified limited edition one with a metal thing stuck on the scope body.



This is a big purchase and I don't want to screw it up and buy something I'll regret.
 

Dthomas3523

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    The LRR is very thin and the .1 aren’t needed as much for prs.

    I’d look more at the h2cmr for a basic reticle and the grid2 for a tree if you’re only considering Schmidt’s.
     
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    pmclaine

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    That seems to have been an over run scope order for an undetermined govt agency - perhaps SS.

    Its a good scope.

    The metal thingy is held on like car badges.

    Get some monofilament fishing line and pull it under the badge to remove it if it bothers you.

    Under the badge is a QR code for inventory purposes I assume at the agency it was intended for.

    Maybe someday it will be a desireable clone scope.
     
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    pmclaine

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    PS - I just made a post about my first "precision rifle" in the semi auto area.

    I found out I chose wrong.

    I did get a S&B but that wasnt part of the wrong - actually both the rifle and scope are quality so neither is wrong.

    I went with a RAL 8000 PMII H2CMR. That reticle was really easy for me to understand when I was starting out. Mile High, were I bought it, noted its a reticle that would hold its resale value.

    My S&B has been on mothballs with a rifle in build that it will go on.

    It is a baseball bat for sure.

    My favorite scope is a 3-15X and will do everything I could ask of it on a .308 to 1000 yards.

    I believe the trend in the sport though is more mag.
     
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    IdahoSpud

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    The LRR is very thin and the .1 aren’t needed as much for prs.

    I’d look more at the h2cmr for a basic reticle and the grid2 for a tree if you’re only considering Schmidt’s.
    Is choosing between a basic reticle and one with a tree more of a personal preference thing? That tree looks super busy and cluttered. What do most people shooting matches prefer?

    I'm probably more interested in building up to target shoot beyond 1k. With that in mind is the LRR with .1 subtensions probably a better choice?




    If that commemorative piece on the Optics Planet one will come right off and the Grid2 will work, that would be awesome. Especially since it's the only one that seems available. That grid2 reticle just looks confusing.



    Are you only considering sb? Def better scopes at new cost unless your picking up a used one
    Open to another option. I want at least 25x, FFP, MRAD, illumination doesn't matter. Budget is $5k.
     

    Huskydriver

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    Is choosing between a basic reticle and one with a tree more of a personal preference thing? That tree looks super busy and cluttered. What do most people shooting matches prefer?

    I'm probably more interested in building up to target shoot beyond 1k. With that in mind is the LRR with .1 subtensions probably a better choice?




    If that commemorative piece on the Optics Planet one will come right off and the Grid2 will work, that would be awesome. Especially since it's the only one that seems available. That grid2 reticle just looks confusing.





    Open to another option. I want at least 25x, FFP, MRAD, illumination doesn't matter. Budget is $5k.
    Do yourself a favor if you got 5k and pick up a Tangent theta or a zero compromise
     

    IdahoSpud

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    Give us a call at 916-670-1103 and we can discuss these options with you :)
    Thanks. I'm doing a bunch of reading on TT and ZCO now. I never heard of them before so this it may be a minute before I figure out what I need. It looks like you have them in stock though so that will definitely help steer me towards them over S&B which are nearly nonexistent.
     
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    IdahoSpud

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    Give us a call at 916-670-1103 and we can discuss these options with you :)
    If I add the Cerakote to this what's the turn around time?


     
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    CSTactical

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    If I add the Cerakote to this what's the turn around time?


    Typically about two weeks, give us a call if possible and i can give you an up to date ETA on the model you're looking for :)
     

    Dthomas3523

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    Ya, if it’s in your budget, ZCO or tangent.

    Mpct1 or gen2xr for basic reticles.

    Tree is personal preference and shooting style. I personally use the tree about 10 times a year.
     

    Hairball

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    JMHO so take it for what it is. Don't drink the Kool-Aid, there are plenty of options out there and you don't need a 5k scope on a hunting rifle. Any of the top tier scopes are good and personal preferences in turret design/function and reticle choice will generally drive one over the other. Don't get caught up in the "this one costs more so it must be better" argument. S&B is a great optic and you came here for reticle advice and now you are down an extra 2k in the last hour and you still probably have no idea what reticle you intend on getting. As noted, you are just starting out and you are looking at thousands if not tens of thousands more in ammo, reloading equipment, and additional gear if you decide to stick with it. If you really want one of the "latest and greatest" optics, wait a year or two and most will sell them off as they move on to the next thing.
     

    IdahoSpud

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    I appreciate the advice, but I’m not quite that new. I have nearly enough components to shoot out my barrel ready to go, and reloading down. The S& B I was looking at was actually more expensive that the ZCO.

    But I am thinking that extra $1000 between ZCO & TT would probably be better spent on a class.
     
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    Baer45

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    Is choosing between a basic reticle and one with a tree more of a personal preference thing? That tree looks super busy and cluttered. What do most people shooting matches prefer?

    I'm probably more interested in building up to target shoot beyond 1k. With that in mind is the LRR with .1 subtensions probably a better choice?




    If that commemorative piece on the Optics Planet one will come right off and the Grid2 will work, that would be awesome. Especially since it's the only one that seems available. That grid2 reticle just looks confusing.





    Open to another option. I want at least 25x, FFP, MRAD, illumination doesn't matter. Budget is $5k.
     

    Baer45

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    Absolutely! Unbiased, I liked my first one so much I bought a second. My second choice is NF ATCR 7x35x56 FI
    Go to Precision Rifle Blog and look at top 10 winners and see what scopes they shot...some are sponsors but I don’t think TT is. These guys are so good they could win with any of top tier scopes but still they are willing to pay whatever they have to to get an edge....make sure you are in the most recent year of “What the pros shoot...”
     
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    rnlzkbrs

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    Ideally, I would recommend checking each scope out personally, if possible. Your eye will be an important part of the package and only you can decide if differences between given two models justify their price difference *for you*. Both ZCO and NF have offices in Orofino (based on your nickname it may not be that far from the place where you live). But it seems to be generally accepted that TT currently produces the best scopes on the market.
     
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    IdahoSpud

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    Ideally, I would recommend checking each scope out personally, if possible. Your eye will be an important part of the package and only you can decide if differences between given two models justify their price difference *for you*. Both ZCO and NF have offices in Orofino (based on your nickname it may not be that far from the place where you live). But it seems to be generally accepted that TT currently produces the best scopes on the market.
    I wish I could but I don't think it's possible. Supply seems limited right now and no one around me carries either. Orofino is a long drive.

    I'm leaning towards the ZCO. I read DThomas's review along with a bunch of others. It really sounds like their is minimal difference between them. At least not enough for me to drop another $1k. I'm sure it's going to be a lot better than my Vortex Viper and plenty good enough to not want to buy another for many years.
     

    Krob95

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    Definitely going to have to recommend a ZCO over the TT. For the extra 1k, use it on ammo or a training class. I’ve owned both and while the turrets are better in the TT, the ZCO wins in all the other categories for me personally.
     
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    rnlzkbrs

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    Krob95

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    Dthomas3523

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    Now that we have established you can basically get whatever optic you want.....

    First, pick the reticle you want. You will be staring at this reticle all day, every day that you shoot. You’ll dial turrets and parallax every so often, but the reticle is how you interface with the rifle and optic.

    If your chosen reticle only comes from one manufacturer, then your choice is easy.

    If not, then make a list of what features are most important to you, and go from there. Many, many people prioritize things that won’t really help them. Such as “the turrets feel so good.” You’re almost never going to dial by feel, and you’re almost always going to look at your turrets. So, one feeling slightly better or worse to you isn’t going to affect your shooting at all.

    Also, don’t get caught up too much on the “what the pros use.” And if you do, just buy a vortex razor gen 2. I promise you that no other optic has seen the amount of matches that optic has. Regardless of if they sponsor or not. Also the “what the pros use” is usually a year behind as the latest and greatest has usually only been out so long.

    The reticle is the most important choice, followed by your own preferences after that.

    Personally, I can easily explain why ZCO and Theta are worth more than other optics. I cannot explain why a Theta is worth that much more than a ZCO. Even if the reticles were the same.
     

    IdahoSpud

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    Now that we have established you can basically get whatever optic you want.....

    First, pick the reticle you want. You will be staring at this reticle all day, every day that you shoot. You’ll dial turrets and parallax every so often, but the reticle is how you interface with the rifle and optic.

    If your chosen reticle only comes from one manufacturer, then your choice is easy.

    If not, then make a list of what features are most important to you, and go from there. Many, many people prioritize things that won’t really help them. Such as “the turrets feel so good.” You’re almost never going to dial by feel, and you’re almost always going to look at your turrets. So, one feeling slightly better or worse to you isn’t going to affect your shooting at all.

    Also, don’t get caught up too much on the “what the pros use.” And if you do, just buy a vortex razor gen 2. I promise you that no other optic has seen the amount of matches that optic has. Regardless of if they sponsor or not. Also the “what the pros use” is usually a year behind as the latest and greatest has usually only been out so long.

    The reticle is the most important choice, followed by your own preferences after that.

    Personally, I can easily explain why ZCO and Theta are worth more than other optics. I cannot explain why a Theta is worth that much more than a ZCO. Even if the reticles were the same.
    Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty much settled on the ZCO 527. I think I'm going to order the MPCT3 over the 1. I realized my Vortex has a tree starting at 1mil with subtensions going all the way up, and I haven't really noticed it in the way or cluttered on that. I've never used it, but if it's not that bothersome I guess I'd rather have it and rarely use it than wish I had it some day. The fatal funnel seems handy to have.
     
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    Alpine 338

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    People giving you advise on what is the best scope, is like someone telling you what ingredients you need to have on your personal pizza.

    My priorities are as follows, not in any specific order;

    Reticle (My favorite is the first gen MSR, then the Leupold TMR. The only scopes I own with Christmas Tree reticles have the Tremor 2 and H59. I will not own another Night Force, or any other scope like TT or ZCO until they offer a reticle I like. The only NF I currently own has a basic Mildot reticle).

    Eye Box (Must be forgiving, ZCO is the best one I've personally encountered).

    Turrets (Must be readable with my aging eyes. The new Schmidt Bender Turrets are the Cats Meow).

    Glass (Must be decent, without distortion at the edges.)

    A word on glass, I will agree that TT probably has the best glass out there, but it's splitting hairs with some of the other top tier scopes. I think the best glass I've ever had in a scope was a March 5-40, that beat out a Premier and S&B in a side-by-side comparison, but then again, it was splitting hairs. Most of my scopes are S&B, and like Nightforce, the glass has improved in the latest generations.

    Good luck in choosing the perfect scope.

    Note: Picture doesn't give justice to the quality of glass. Taken with a smart phone that was being difficult to focus.

    IMG_20200601_202304330.jpgIMG_20200601_143232677.jpg
     
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    rnlzkbrs

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    Since a couple of people mentioned reticle as a primary criterion to choose the scope, let me bring a new contender: March 5-42x56. This is the scope I've recently chosen for my ELR setup for the following reasons:
    • FML-TR1 reticle created by @koshkin . Everyone here seems to love that reticle. I have not seen any negative comments on it.
    • I think for ELR it's nice to have up to 42x when atmospheric conditions allow it.
    • 40 mils elevation adjustment range.
    • Widest FOW.
    • Great turrets. Actually they are addictive: if you get one in your hands I can guarantee you'll spend some time enjoying the clicks.
    • Historical: I was looking for a good review of March Genesis since 2018. Instead I've noticed a few good reviews of 5-42x56 and I've realized that combined with Charlie+Delta TARAC it will be a better option than Genesis (when I will need that).
    Unfortunately they had to sacrifice IQ a little bit, but according to @ormandj it's on a same level as NF ATACR. Here is a thread about that scope: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...gh-master-fml-tr1-preliminary-review.6993171/ .

    P.S. We are discussing top products in a very competitive market. Whatever scope you'll chose it's unlikely that you'll regret it.