FL sizing: need some serious help

[dmike]

I'm slowly honing my reloading skills with a few breakthroughs... started using the k&m flash hole deburrer instead of the crappy rcbs one, it's incredible. Figured out the forster 3-in-1 trimmer is way more consistent than hand tools. Started neck turning to take down high spots in the neck and reduce runout.

But the thing that causes me the most stress is the most basic step, full length resizing. I'm actually kind of scared of it.

I started with a lee FLS, within less than 100 cases it was galling and leaving "stretch marks" on all sides of my 308 cases. I took it apart, used a .50 bronze brush with butch's to clean it. Polished the inside with flitz's on a shotgun mop to a mirror shine. My cases were spotless, deprimed and ultrasonic cleaned before resizing. Lubed with one-shot on all sides, 45 degree down spray to hit neck etc.

I heard about imperial, tried using that for a while. Dry lube with application media to get the inside of the necks, wiped the outside off so I wouldn't be getting graphite powder in the die sticking on the sizing wax. After wiping the outside I applied a light coat of wax. Extremely tedious. This worked but the die sometimes took a lot of force and crushed a lot of my necks down.

Took out the expander rod, fine sanding and polishing to try to reduce it by .001 or so and smooth it out.

Had a bunch of brass to do and didn't feel like spending 30 seconds on each one with the 2-step imperial application so I went back to the one shot spray. Got a case stuck in there. The shell holder was on the bottom of the die and would not come down. The rod would not come back up out of the neck. I had to hammer it out with the expander rod (the lee rod is very tough by the way). The rod was stuck in the case when it came out. This happened a couple times, I had to cut the case off the rod each time.

I used a lot of spray to get the next batch through, it seemed to work better but the cases started galling again, stretch marks. I was worried I had too much lube, the cases were pretty wet so I went lighter but still hit all 4 sides with a half-second shot of the spray. Then one got so stuck I gave up and threw the whole thing in the trash.

Tried an rcbs. This one didn't take nearly the same amount of force but again, after about 100 cases I got one stuck and I bent the threaded rod trying to get it out. 2nd die ruined.

Now I just bought a forster FLS but I'm scared to use it. I also bought the forster high pressure lube, the yellow oil. I've got no confidence that I'm going to be able to get more than 100 rds through this thing before I ruin it.

I see from the forum that some guys just don't use the expander rod when they FLS. Is this the secret? How do you get consistent neck tension without anything going down into it before the bullet?

I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong but this is driving me nuts. I know there are thousands of people who don't even clean their brass before they FLS and they aren't having these issues.

Any advice? Thanks

 

[former naval person]

If you are going to use the Forster FLS, I would do this. 1: Spin a barrel cleaning brush in a hand drill or drill press. Wrap some 0000 steel wool around the brush and polish the inside of the necks. As you work thru your pile of brass you will have to replenish the steel wool as it wears down. Lube the inside of the necks with graphite in alcohol...Lock-eze. 2: Better lube. I use 1 part castor oil, 1 part liquid lanolin, and 8 parts alcohol. Isopropyl (anhydrous) or Solox. Doesn't seem to matter. Shake well to mix. Put 100 cases or so into a zip-lok gallon bag and spray 4 or 5 sprays into the bag and roll them around then dump into a box. Size away.

Personally I get less runout by using a two part sizing process. Body die, then Lee collet neck sizer. JMHO

If you have seriously expanded cases, half and half anhydrous lanolin and STP. Warm the lanolin to get it to mix. Use a clean stamp pad, rub some of the mix into the pad and roll your cases on the pad. Won't stick.

Good luck.

 

[KYpatriot]

I use imperial size wax, just touch my thumb to it. Pick up the case and twist it between thumb and finger from the shoulder down a little on the way to the press. It literally takes me 3 seconds. You don't need much at all- can hardly see it. In thousands of rounds I have never, not once, had a stuck case, crushed neck, galling, etc. I still use the expander ball/ rod as well. Have never lubed the inside of the neck. Very clean process. Once I'm done sizing them the batch I take a piece of t shirt, toss some rubbing alcohol on it, and quickly wipe off the body of each case.

If you use a spray lube then you must wait for all the alcohol to evaporate away leaving nothing but lube. When people get stuck cases they are 99% of the time using spray lube.

One more thing- check your press for play. Make sure linkage is tight so that the brass is entering the die straight, there should never be crushing. What press is this, is it a progressive?

 

[samnev]

If your having problems with both Lee and RCBS dies something is wrong with your reloading process. I have used both dies and used Dillon's spray lubricant for many years and never had the brass galled. I'd stick a case on occasion but it is always because I didn't use enough spray lubricant or didn't wait long enough for the alcohol to dry. I'd try taking your cases liberally spray the lubricant into the pile of brass the hand mix the brass to make sure all of the brass has gotten the lubricant on them. Wait a few minutes for the alcohol to dry and try resizing. If the case doesn't go into the dies easily you know you haven't used enough lubricant. So stop and respray.

 

[CharlieNC]

It doesn't take much wax at all on the outside. I barely push the neck about 1/2 mm into the wax to just get a little on the inside. Since you're having a number of problems, what is your unsized neck size? Maybe try a Lee collet neck sizer?

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Several things are likely in play here, but the issue sound as if they are die adjustment and lube related. Are you depriming in a separate step or at the time of sizing? I ask this as there have been plenty of cases where people have been using a universal decaping die and then they were not setting the expander deep enough in the case resulting in stuck cases. What kind of press are you using and how is it mounted to the bench? Are you having a lot of flex in the bench?

For lubing the case necks you can try to hit the inside of the necks with a lightly lubed qtip as it sounds like the inside of the necks could use a bit of a better lubing process (Not your issue with this, but you will have concentricity issues down the line if you are not lubing the inside necks properly.

 

[neiltus]

What is the brass from?

Pre size HS and Post size HS?

If your punching necks into the brass, you need to back off the die.

 

[hognuts]

I WONT USE one shot! I stuck cases every time I tried it, I use the wax stuff now and have no issues. (you have to clean die periodically or it will "build up" and put dents in shoulders) But I fucking hate that one shot shit! A few buddies still use it and say if you put brass in a plastic bag and use way more than you think you need and let it sit/shake it around in there it works....my experience is....FUCK THAT SHIT! Just use the wax and get it done!

 

[buffybuster]

Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Without them, going by your description, I would say your expander ball is incorrectly set too high up in the die, causing the neck of the case to be pinched between the expander ball and the die neck.

I don't use One-Shot, but if you do, make sure you let it evaporate. I little Imperial Die Wax between your fingers is all you need. FL resizing dies are pretty simple, Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Forster, Lyman, Redding, etc.. all make good ammo, if properly setup and adjusted. All can give you fits, if you don't.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I don't clean brass before resize. I learned this from somebody that has forgotten more about reloading then most people will ever know and the following is my variation and purists will hate the idea. I use 12 oz spary bottle with rubbing alcohol and quarter dab size of VO5 hair cream. I spray on 100 brass in a container. Toss them into another container and spray some more. The alcohol will evaporate but the VO5 will be left on the brass . Your brass will smell like an old fashioned barber shop. Resized brass goes back in container. Spray with carb cleaner. Toss into another container and spray some more. now without the spraying back and forth a few times and the carb cleaner evaporates along with the VO5. VO5 contains paraffin and is a lubricant. V05 is cheap and rubbing alcohol is cheap. BTW, I use basic Lee FS die. After about 200 times I spray the inside of the die with carb cleaner and watch the shit melt right out of it. Been doing this a long time. Pretty smooth resizing. I like to heat the spray bottle contents in the microwave about 15 seconds. This melts the VO5 that has settled on the bottom. I swear one spray bottle with last for several hundreds brass. In fact, it will evaporate on it own before you use it all. Especially, if you use the 90% alcohol but the 70% is just as good and won't evaporate out of the bottle of you leave the cap loose. Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[JGorski]

If you shake the bloody One-Shot for a full minute before applying it, you won't have any problems, I only use it for large amounts of brass, like more than 50, otherwise I use mink oil, works even better than One-Shot but One-Shot will get into the inside of the neck easier, of course. You don't need much mink oil just like with Imperial and is a lot cheaper.
I DO NOT use the expander ball with custom bushing dies only, otherwise I use it with other FL dies. If I get some shells that make that weird noise on the up stroke I lube the inside of the necks with some sort of oil with a Q-Tip.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

I use Forster FL sizer with their high pressure lube. I use a case lube pad and roll the case so it gets a light coat of oil then tap the neck opening on the pad to get a little oil on the inside of the neck. I run it through the FL sizer and it's smooth like butter. You don't need a lot of lube, just a light coat will do. I size 204ruger up through 338LM and have no issues.

 

[SWRichmond]

I use a Sinclair die set with the correct neck size bushing. I do not use an expander ball. I brush the case necks with a case neck brush to clean them after tumbling. I roll ten cases on an RCBS case lube pad on which i have spread RCBS case lube. It is water soluble and rinses off (big bowl full of warm water, two or three rinses). I let the cases air dry.

There is a spring which holds the shell holder into the press ram. I took mine out, stretched it out some, and reinstalled it. This allows the shell holder to slide around a little and self-align the ram with the die.

I sounds to me that you are underlubricating cases.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I'm slowly honing my reloading skills with a few breakthroughs...

<big snip>

Got a case stuck in there. The shell holder was on the bottom of the die and would not come down. The rod would not come back up out of the neck. I had to hammer it out with the expander rod (the lee rod is very tough by the way).

<more snippage>
Any advice?

There is a reason you have nerve endings in your muscles.
You can use those nerve endings to FEEL how the case is going into the die and stop before you jam one in there.
Reloading is not an endeavour where you just ram stuff through a nameless die hoping for the best.
Reloading in an endeavour where you use all your craftmanship to produce better ammo than you can buy.
You can't produce better ammo than you can buy is you don't use the nerve endings in your muscles as a point of feedback.

 

[dmike]

I use Forster FL sizer with their high pressure lube. I use a case lube pad and roll the case so it gets a light coat of oil then tap the neck opening on the pad to get a little oil on the inside of the neck. I run it through the FL sizer and it's smooth like butter. You don't need a lot of lube, just a light coat will do. I size 204ruger up through 338LM and have no issues.

Thanks...do you have to clean the brass after sizing to remove the HP lube?

 

[dmike]

I roll ten cases on an RCBS case lube pad on which i have spread RCBS case lube. It is water soluble and rinses off (big bowl full of warm water, two or three rinses). I let the cases air dry.

There is a spring which holds the shell holder into the press ram. I took mine out, stretched it out some, and reinstalled it. This allows the shell holder to slide around a little and self-align the ram with the die.

I sounds to me that you are underlubricating cases.

I bought the rcbs pad and put the suggested amount of lube on it (tsp or whatever it was). A few days later the lube had somehow soaked through the bottom of the green tray and the entire table underneath was covered in lube. It did not overflow over the edges of the tray and the lid was closed. It was a bit of a mystery and I had to clean the tray and table with rubbing alcohol to remove the sticky stuff, it was like corn syrup had spilled everywhere. Got the tray all clean, put it down, and a couple days later it was the same way again. It seemed like the plastic bottom must have been porous or somehow permeable to the lube?

I got a new pad and planned to put the hp lube on it but I don't want it to do the same thing.

I sounds to me that you are underlubricating cases.

Okay, I'll buy that. I've heard about pressure dents on the case, is it hard to overlubricate?

 

[dmike]

Guys, thanks for taking the time to share your input and advice, it's incredible to be able to access so many years of experience and accumulated knowledge.

In order:
Former Naval Person: that's some high level stuff there! Does the homebrew lube interfere with your lock-eze?

KYpatriot: I did wait the minute after 1-shot. I think I was doing the wax about the same as you, brush my finger then spin finger/thumb around the shoulder etc. It was lubing the inside of the neck that was taking the time, since I was wiping the graphite off after, but it sounds like you're having great results without lubing the neck at all.

Samnev: Roger that, thanks! That 2nd to the last sentence really solidified in my mind.

CharlieNC: I like the idea of tipping the neck in the wax, are there any issues with lube residue in the neck/case after? I can't get to the caliper right now but all the brass would fit into a Wilson case gage so I don't think the necks are too big. I will check tonight with the caliper, what would you consider "too big" for a fired 308? I do have the lee collet and do use it sometimes but I've never run that before FLS.

ZombieMonkey: After firing: 1. deprime w/universal decapping die. 2. anneal. 3. ultrasonic 4. lube/resize. Sometimes I wet tumble with stainless after. I am very interested in what you're saying about how I might have concentricity problems without enough neck lube, I don't quite get it but it sounds important. Do you just mean lubing before sizing or is that for seating? What are your thoughts on the graphite or talcum-covered brushes to dry lube necks? I assume the issue is uneven friction forces on the neck during sizing? I use an RCBS rock chucker, my bench is 4 vertical 4x6s and shelf rings of 2x4s with a 1 inch plywood top. The mounting bolts go through the plywood and into the top of the corner 4x6, pretty deep. There is a small amount of flex depending on what I'm pressing. Die adjustment: with the stuck lee I was running up to the shell holder, it was working fine and HS was coming out around 1.630 I believe. The RCBS had a locking collar and I had it set for a bump on one of my specific chambers so it was probably HSing around 1.631ish?

Neiltus: mixed brass, mostly FC (GMM), some Lapua, a few donated PMCs etc. I was trying to get through 150 cases, I got a new rifle and just wanted to get everything back to 1.630 or so since I had been segregating and doing a specific bump for two previous rifles. The biggest fired case was probably 1.634 and the smallest was probably 1.629ish. As for punching necks...when I first started annealing I think I was overdoing it, and there could have been some cases that had been around the block 5+ times so I'm wondering if I just got the necks too soft & thin?

Hognuts: LOL. My girlfriend says the exact same thing..."it's that spray!" I'm not a fan but when I've got a "big" batch (relative term) anything else seems to take forever. How are you cleaning your die to remove the buildup?

BuffyBuster: sorry for not posting pics. I might get some in later. When I first started using the Lee I was worried about the expander being too high and pinching like you're describing. I cut off the long decap tip, polished it to a smooth rounded hump and flitzed the expander ball (cases had already been deprimed). That probably bought me about 1/2" or more, I tried to keep it fairly low in the die without bottoming out. I did let the cases sit after spraying, it seemed like more than 2 min but maybe I was impatient. When you wax how are you doing the inside of the necks?

Culpeper: that was a cool post. With the paraffin residue on the cases do they behave differently? Sierra has an interesting comment in their rifle FAQs about how lube residue can cause "bolt thrust". I like the carb cleaner idea for blasting out the die every once in a while.

JGorski: I thought I shook it enough but maybe it was only 30 sec. Like the mink oil idea! I will pay more attention to the feel and sound at the neck and q-tip if necessary.

Mitch: thanks for the comment

To all of you that responded: again, thanks so much for sharing your hard-earned wisdom and insight. You guys are great!

dmike

 

[mtrmn]

OP-you have been thoroughly and properly schooled by all the other posters, I won't repeat their advice. It hurts me to think you threw away 2 perfectly salvageable dies though. Do you still have them? Especially the RCBS-you can call/email them and tell them you tore it up and they'll send you a new decapping assembly--probably for free.


ETA: I couldn't stand not adding to everybody's advice----when using One Shit, wait AT LEAST 15-20 minutes for it to dry completely. If the case is even slightly still wet it will stick. Back when I was just trying to use up the can I had, I would spray the cases in a plastic bag and waller them around to make sure they all got lubed, then pour them out on a cookie sheet or something to dry OVERNIGHT. Next day I would have no trouble sizing. I now use homemade lube with liquid lanolin (from ebay) and HEET gas treatment from walmart (red bottle). I tumble after sizing with corn cob and a tablespoon of mineral spirits to remove lube.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

<big>Culpeper: that was a cool post. With the paraffin residue on the cases do they behave differently? Sierra has an interesting comment in their rifle FAQs about how lube residue can cause "bolt thrust". I like the carb cleaner idea for blasting out the die every once in a while.</big>

I use a Lee chuck that attaches to a battery powered drill. The brass goes into the chuck. At that point I use a rag to clean the brass to remove residue and then trim the case (lee case trimmer with wood ball handle). 100 brass from start to finish takes about an 45 minutes. At that point they are ready to be primed.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Thanks...do you have to clean the brass after sizing to remove the HP lube?

I'm sure you could just wipe it off but I prefer to run it back through the stainless media and get it squeaky clean.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Okay, now that I know you are using a universal decapper I am going to hedge my bets on the adjustment of your expander. Did you pull the decapping pin from the expander? How far down into the case do you have the expander currently set? With the decapping pin removed from the rod, adjust your expander a turn or two further into the die and try to size some cases. Is it any easier?

As far as the concentricity issues go, you don't want a dry expander pulling back through the necks of the brass as it'll lead to poor results/consistency, i.e. the "problems" some people complain about FL sizing. If you lube the inside of the necks well, I've yet to see the concentricity issues some complain about when using the expander in the FL dies. I don't personally care for the dry lubes, I just use whatever lube I'm using on either a neck brush or a qtip. I use Hornady Unique case lube for use in the single stage, though I do use Dillon's spray lube for my progressive press. With sprays it is important that you get some inside the neck as well. One shot worked well for me using 223 in the progressive if you used enough, was terrible on 308 for me though.

 

[kegger22]

ETA: I couldn't stand not adding to everybody's advice----when using One Shit, wait AT LEAST 15-20 minutes for it to dry completely. If the case is even slightly still wet it will stick. Back when I was just trying to use up the can I had, I would spray the cases in a plastic bag and waller them around to make sure they all got lubed, then pour them out on a cookie sheet or something to dry OVERNIGHT. Next day I would have no trouble sizing. I now use homemade lube with liquid lanolin (from ebay) and HEET gas treatment from walmart (red bottle). I tumble after sizing with corn cob and a tablespoon of mineral spirits to remove lube.

This... Shake the can for atleast one minute before using, let the brass sit until completely dry

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk

 

[dmike]

you guys are fantastic, thanks for all the knowledge.

Update: broke out the new Forster FLS. As a reformed shithead I followed their instructions as best I could...cleaned the inside with butch's, checked expander ball height, etc. Per instructions, screwed die down to shell holder then a bit more (more on that in a minute). Lubed cases with high pressure oil on the rcbs pad, and q-tipped the inside of the necks with the oil. I was sure these things were way too wet but if lube is my problem so be it.

Those things went through like butter, I went through about 60 no problem. And I got to see what Mitch was talking about because I had about 10 I had lubed with imperial, half with the 1mm neck dip into the wax and half with the Forster case neck graphiter (the red box, hated that thing). Those cases had a lot more resistance so I stopped (reformed shithead part).

I'm just going to plan to clean the die each time I guess, because it did seem like a lot of lube. And I stainless tumbled after to clean the cases.

The only problem now with this victory batch is that I followed the instructions. I was so hung up on not sticking a case I didn't think to check HS on the first case. With the shell holder touching the die these things came out at about 1.621 which is about 7 or 8 thou shorter than I wanted. I know about backing off the die to get the right HS, or buying the competition shell holders, but with the Lee I could run it all the way up and be right around 1.630 and I figured following the Forster directions was the best strategy.

It was a mixed set of brass so I'm guessing some of them were starting at about 1.633-1.634. That HP lube was bumping back up to 15 thou with almost no resistance. I think that is my lube for now.

Responses to the latest posts:

mtrmn: I don't think I've emptied the shop trash can yet but the Lee is at the bottom of it. After all the polishing and tweaking I was just fed up when that case lodged in there. The RCBS was shipped back with no expectations, I'll see what happens with that. It's a nice die so it would be great to get it back and use it, especially with this HP lube.

kegger (& mtrmn): That's crazy, I would have thought that getting them completely dry (esp overnight) was a bad thing. I had been using 1-shot when I wanted to do 50 or more at a time because it seemed way more convenient than hand prepping each one. but last night burning through 60 or so I realized it was way less hassle with the HP, even having to q-tip necks and clean the die after. Super low stress, which is a relief.

Culpeper: I have both those products (lee chuck and wood ball trimmer) so glad to see I'm in good company.

BLDTRLRY: I'm in.

ZombieMonkey: On the Lee I ground the pin off the rod and set the rod fairly low, as deep as I thought I could without bottoming out. The rod isn't threaded so it's hard to make small adjustments, and I had to crank the retainer nut pretty tight to keep it from pushing up when the neck hit it. RCBS expander height? I know I tried to keep the ball low in the case but now only God knows unless RCBS can undo my mangling of everything. I removed the pin from the new Forster and put the 1/3 ball line at the vent hole per their recommendations, worked great except for the excess HS which I'll fix by backing out and locking the ring down. Thanks for the info on the concentricity effects, I am going to embrace the q-tip and make sure I get some HP inside every neck.

 

[JoshcBoucher]

I'm LATE to the Party. Here"s how to use One-Shot, Properly. SHAKE IT. Get it warm, in your hand, and spray..............on your garden clippers, squeaky wheels, etc. It's no good for sizing, in my book. I stuck too many cases with it. Sizing wax is the way to go. I put the shell in the holder, dip a finger lightly in the wax and "stroke the case up and down" [ keep your mind out of the gutter, guys], a couple times, and go. Gently! If you feel it getting "hard" to go in, back off and apply a little more wax. Usually around the bottom third of the case is where most of my trouble lies. Takes about 5 seconds, per case. I'm with hognuts, on the one shot. I'm just finishing up the last 250 cases, of a 4000 case run, all done with the wax, and NO stuck cases. wipes off on a paper towel. Listen to the other guys, on die set up.

 

[TacticalBoltKnob]

I run a nylon brush through the neck of every case before I resize, to get anything out and make sure it's clean enough to run up through the die.

Oh, and lube matters. Crappy lube will give you fits and you'll be blaming everything but the lube.

 

[fw707]

If you're bumping the shoulder back .015 you're beating your brass up.

 

[Garyc]

I use imperial size wax, just touch my thumb to it. Pick up the case and twist it between thumb and finger from the shoulder down a little on the way to the press. It literally takes me 3 seconds. You don't need much at all- can hardly see it. In thousands of rounds I have never, not once, had a stuck case, crushed neck, galling, etc. I still use the expander ball/ rod as well. Have never lubed the inside of the neck. Very clean process. Once I'm done sizing them the batch I take a piece of t shirt, toss some rubbing alcohol on it, and quickly wipe off the body of each case.

If you use a spray lube then you must wait for all the alcohol to evaporate away leaving nothing but lube. When people get stuck cases they are 99% of the time using spray lube.

This is the way I do it. I put a bit of imperial sizing wax on my fingers and spin it once before going in the die, barely takes any time at all.

Throw away that Hornady one shot crap. Every time I see a post on it I can read the catch line before I get there. It usually goes something like "I love hormady one shot, but I keep sticking cases with it". I've got a buddy that used that stuff for a while, he'd have to line up his cases in a loading block then carry it outside to spray, complete pain in the ass. Imperial sizing wax is way faster, just keep a dab on your fingers and twist it after you pick the case up and put it in the press.

People really make lubing cases too complicated.

 

[Fuzzball]

One Shot lubes cases fine IF it's used according to instructions and that doesn't include sizing "wet" cases; all other commercial case lubes and a lot of substitutes work well too.

Sticky cases and rapid galling/scratching are certain signs of insufficient and/or poorly applied case lube.

We can't put enough case lube inside a neck to prevent sticking.

Getting powdered graphite in/on case necks harms nothing.

All brands of FL sizers work fine IF we adjust them correctly, and by that I mean by the results obtained.

Following die "instructions" wil usuallyl make ammo that goes BOOM but it sure isn't going to produce ideal sizing.

 

[dmike]

If you're bumping the shoulder back .015 you're beating your brass up.

Yup. I didn't intend to push them back that far, I was just commenting on how buttery the HP lube was. It didn't feel like anything at all. The imperial had a much stiffer feel.

 

[dmike]

One Shot lubes cases fine IF it's used according to instructions and that doesn't include sizing "wet" cases; all other commercial case lubes and a lot of substitutes work well too.

Sticky cases and rapid galling/scratching are certain signs of insufficient and/or poorly applied case lube.

We can't put enough case lube inside a neck to prevent sticking.

Getting powdered graphite in/on case necks harms nothing.

All brands of FL sizers work fine IF we adjust them correctly, and by that I mean by the results obtained.

Following die "instructions" wil usuallyl make ammo that goes BOOM but it sure isn't going to produce ideal sizing.

Good info Sir. So if someone was going to use graphite for the necks, would you do it before or after applying the outside lube? I didn't think it would harm anything I was just trying to avoid a big graphite/oil sludge buildup inside the die.