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Flu Shot???

Do you normally get a flu shot?

  • Yes- I believe in science

  • Yes- getting sick for a week sucks

  • Yes- if I get sick, the flu is less severe

  • No- too much heavy metal- I get enough shooting

  • No- I don’t get sick

  • No- I don’t think they work

  • No- choices 1,2&3 are BS


Results are only viewable after voting.
Sorry but I'm going to have to strongly disagree and say that's a bunch of Anti freedom government propaganda.
But I guess it's a good example of why people these have such blind idiotic faith in what they are told to believe & can't be bothered to think for themselves.

It's not much different from those parroting the line that "gun control" is a public health issue and even if you are responsible you should be willing to give up all your guns and let only the government do it because well you might bear some responsibility if you voted for freedom and some criminal one day killed someone.

So somebody should be forced to have to worry about life altering or life threatening side effects which ARE real and documented because some other people think that well who cares if there are problems for others, it's going to protect me and everybody owes me protection & I want everyone forced to do what I want at gunpoint (or similar) because well somebody told me it would protect me.

Are YOU willing to PERSONALLY have to deal with life long consequences from someone or their child forced to get vaccinations against their will when it goes wrong? Not some Government fund paying off or your insurance company paying off, but NO, YOU personally having to spend a lifetime taking care of them and dealing with the issues for the rest of your life and supporting them yourself... I'm guessing not, you will probably be on the, well tough luck they were one of the unlucky ones, hopefully they can get a bit of money from the government after years of fighting for it.

Are YOU willing to personally pay for time off for folks that you want forced to get vaccinations where they get to feeling pretty bad from it and have to take time off work or their lives to recover?

I'd actually listen to such BS a bit more if there was actually open and honest research and discussion about what is actually in the vaccines, what you need and don't need and open discussion of all the various side effects and such & an actual choice in what to get when and there was actual consequences for those making the vaccines when they did risky things or made stuff that caused issues. The Flu vaccine especially, since at it's best is a 50% chance of protecting you at any given year.

You DON'T have freedom if you say the government can force you or your children to get injected with whatever they demand, consequences and problems be damned & then go on a religious crusade to silence all dissent and all questioning or studies that don't support the "settled Science" BS.

It is a well known FACT that the current vaccination ingredients and schedules are more risky and aggressively timed then optimal and there are very significant questions about the contents & production. But all that is silenced by idiots who worship whatever BS they are told by the government.

So what about all those old folks that get the flu vaccine each year but still die of the flu or other similar illnesses?
If your immune system is so weak that you need everyone else to bend over backwards and risk themselves because of you, just stay home and don't hang out with people, that tends to work well.

How about we stop letting all the third world hordes with diseases that are not common here flood uncontrolled across the borders bringing sickness to the schools which then spread it to everyone else...

You can lead a horse to water; but apparently here at the Hide, the Neo Luddites and Conspiracy theorists have all the answers needed discredit what has been demonstrated worldwide in dozens (Hundreds? Thousands?) of clinical trials costing many millions (billions?) of taxpayer and private investor dollars.

Yeah, right, you know better. Maybe you have some sort of medical background to back it up, a medical degree maybe. Maybe everyone you disagree with has got it dead wrong. You're swimming upstream, folks; and the falls are just downstream.

...and they say Army Jerry was off the rails.

And then you put it ON ME to shoulder any and all blame for any medical problems or fuck-ups that might have even a peripheral bearing on the subject. Don't be likening me to the Liberals or any of their agendas. You're just deflecting from your own brand of chickenshit know it all conspiracy bullshit.

Live in your dream world where you all know better than an entire government and private medical profession worldwide.

When you start making personal accusations here in the forum, you need more than just rhetoric to justify your stand. You're playing with your own continued presence on The 'Hide.

This is not free discussion, it's another flame war personal character assassination. I've already had too much of that crap. This time, I'm going for the blood.

If you can't handle the truth like the rest of the sane world, prove otherwise; and don't just go wrapping your accusations in the freedoms flag.

Or, get this argument really smokin' and make this topic your swan song here.

Sauce for the 'Jerry" is sauce for the crap you're spewing, too.

Moderators, take note.

Greg

PS

Understanding Vaccines. Vaccination Myths Debunked. So tell us all, is this just propaganda, lies, and fiction?
 
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I speak from personal experience with Tamiflu. If you do not want it, great. More for me.
I totally get that. But just consider, sometimes personal experience is not a great guide in medicine (or any process with a lot of hidden things). It’s hard to know from personal experience how you would have felt if you didn’t take the drug. We know from randomized trials that there can be a pretty strong placebo effect where people feel better even if they are just getting a sugar pill. And the data are not very favorable for tamiflu.
 
So what you see is free people making an informed decision on the risks and benefits of a course of action.
Those who live a lifestyle that does not expose them to one risk much, are often choosing not to take another risk to protect them from something they have low risk of.

That's freedom and how it should work.


You are free to put your children at risk of deadly diseases that have been eradicated...but not free to put me and mine at risk.

I just wish people would go isolate themselves, interbreed, and stop polluting the gene pool.
 
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I totally get that. But just consider, sometimes personal experience is not a great guide in medicine (or any process with a lot of hidden things). It’s hard to know from personal experience how you would have felt if you didn’t take the drug. We know from randomized trials that there can be a pretty strong placebo effect where people feel better even if they are just getting a sugar pill. And the data are not very favorable for tamiflu.

You do not know what you are talking about.
 
You do not know what you are talking about.
Well that is an interesting response. I have an MD and a PhD and work in this field, and all I am saying is that you might consider the possibility that your perception can be inaccurate. You and everyone else reading this thread are free to think what you like.
 
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I have had the flu and when I get on Tamiflu immediately it has worked perfectly. When I have not...bad news.

A medical professional would not be giving bad advice anonymously online.
 
I have had the flu and when I get on Tamiflu immediately it has worked perfectly. When I have not...bad news.

A medical professional would not be giving bad advice anonymously online.
 
I experience no negative physical side effects from Tamiflu, having had it four times.

Even if placebo only, I’d rather have it than not if I even think I might be coming down with influenza.
 
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I have gotten a Flu shot twice and within 12 hours had a full case of the Flu. I have not had a Flu shot in about 15 years and had the Flu 1 time. I will take those odds. The girl friend works in the medical field and gets one every year and had been sick twice in the last 15 years. So not sure it makes a differance.
 

Cost saving measure, not saying it does not work. Now I'm even more suspicious of your claim to be a M.D. and a Ph.D.
 
Not confronting, does Tamiflu make the patient non-infectious?

Greg
Maybe a little:
Maybe not:

The answer in most things in medicine is usually "we don't know" or at least "we are not sure."
 
Cost saving measure, not saying it does not work. Now I'm even more suspicious of your claim to be a M.D. and a Ph.D.
No, if you read the article they do cite the evidence that it probably doesn't work (much). Who wants to spend money on something ineffective? Again I am not saying it is deadly poison, but the weight of the evidence points to it being pretty close to useless.

See also https://www.cochrane.org/news/tamiflu-and-relenza-getting-full-evidence-picture
 
Male Nurse here.

@LawnMM such a funny call out there.
LDMF as it is.

Flu shots dont give you the flu.

Some folks get a strong immune reaction to vaccines with myalgias and such for 36-72 hrs.

Its a guess at best, as stated sometimes it works and sometimes not. Not scientific at all.
Last year had the shot, got the flu late that sucked majorly. T-max of 105.1......

Some folks are now mandated by the government to have it. Hospital employees being one I know of.

I have asthma, so have always gotten it as a bad respiratory illness landed me in the hospital a lot as a kid.
 
I heard a rumor I just started that if you wear this, you will not get the Flu.

safety jacket.jpeg
 
You are free to put your children at risk of deadly diseases that have been eradicated...but not free to put me and mine at risk.

I just wish people would go isolate themselves, interbreed, and stop polluting the gene pool.

Typical of so many, you have no idea of what true freedom actually is, rather you only actually want freedom for everyone to do as you wish but not when you don't like their freedom to choose differently than your cherished opinion.

Freedom does NOT allow you to compel others to do as you say, for your own benefit (or even for "the public good").
It's much like the FSA who demands that they have the "right" to benefits and services (which the government can only get by either taking money at gunpoint or otherwise compelling someone to provide).

Otherwise we might have some ideas about denying you and yours various medicine and such in the name of improving the gene pool and fighting against resistant organisms and tough luck if you and yours are casualties of "the greater good". Or ordering you to only eat what someone claims is better "for the planet" humans be damned.

Perhaps you should go move to a nice totalitarian state that already follows your ideas of doing what the government says or else since you don't seem to like the idea that other people don't want to do as you wish. How about you move instead since you are the one that wants people to do as you order for your benefit?

I wouldn't be so quick to pull out the gene pool business, you might find actually that from an improving the gene pool standpoint, if you and yours are so weak that even with your precious flu vaccine, you are scared about getting sick and you have to demand everyone else bend to your wishes, then your gene line may be the one that's not all that great.

Funny how most of the hatred has been directed towards folks who believe in freedom and nobody seems to be blaming all the illegal immigrants that are the ones actually causing a lot of the recent small blips in everyone's peaceful tranquility of "public health".
 
Hey, you are more than free not to have your kinds vaccinated against the measles...just don't let your little germ factories spread their diseases to me and my community.

What is being directed toward morons who refuse to protect their children from deadly diseases is contempt, disgust and dismay.

You are free to drive 200 mph on a public highway in the wrong direction, go right ahead. There may be consequences.
 
I'm getting mine this weekend,end of story. And if i don't, i catch hell from my GF who is immune compromise do to cancer treatment.
And btw tamiflu works wonders,never had any side effects from it.
 
And then you put it ON ME to shoulder any and all blame for any medical problems or fuck-ups that might have even a peripheral bearing on the subject.

Well it's pretty much exactly the mirror to you of what you said others should be liable for if they don't want to do as you think
As quoted below, you said that people that choose to not get some vaccine should be held responsible for those that get sick and you didn't mention anything about proving they were the specific person the other party got sick from, So I simply turned the mirror around and said, if you want to force someone to take a risk, then perhaps you also should be subject to the same logic if things go bad:

Folks who refuse immunization and get the covered illness end up spreading it among the rest of the uncovered population, and we're already losing too many of our friends to such things.
Immunization is a public health issue. Those who refuse to participate can be legitimately considered irresponsible toward the community as a whole.
In such a context, refusing to obtain simple and effective immunization becomes an act of irresponsibility; and refusees may bear some responsibility for the deaths of those who contract it downstream as a result of the refusee's own selfish behavior.

Live in your dream world where you all know better than an entire government and private medical profession worldwide.

I'm actually trying to simply preserve the freedom that we have to make your own choices while we still have it.
I understand the science very well, as do many who are staunchly opposed to being forced to do things against their own will.

I'm all for folks that want to get vaccines without asking any questions about it, to be free to do as they wish.
I'm all for folks that want to get vaccines after doing their research and weighing the risks to do so as they wish

But what I'm against is when someone says you MUST take this risk or do this regardless of your own wishes, especially when there is a staunch refusal to actually offer choices, options and guarantees against uncommon but possibly serious issues arising.

It is apparently just about impossible to have a discussion on the science, current practice and possible options with regards to vaccinations as it is to have discussion about "climate change" or "carbon" with most of the rest of the world these days and the scientific community treats it with about the same level of "don't say anything outside of the orthodox version we all agree to profess without reservation", at the risk of being excommunicated from the scientific world.
 
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And I find a "discussion" with anti-Vax people is like trying to have a "discussion" with members of the Flat Earth Society or people who cling to a Heliocentric view of the universe.
 
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There is no "discussion" with them (anti-vaxxers).

There is an attempt at reasoning, presentation of evidence, statistical data and double blind legitimate experiments/studies, pleading, and finally exasperation. Usually ending in flat-out arguments and elevated discord because they refuse to acknowledge the benefit while sighting often-debunked "studies" and internet-doctor-soccer-mom opinions.

All the while, putting others (to include their children) at risk for their own selfishness and living with blinders.

Damn straight I'm getting the flu shot. I have a 1-year old. I want him around a long time.
 
We disagree, on this, and I agree with you on most everything else; so I'm leaving this all here unaltered.

I think your take on public health and larger societal obligations than our individual cherished beliefs is a bit on the selfish side, but nobody's (I hope) going to die from our differences.

In fact, we'll probably see this being put to the test when all those unvaccinated "undocumented" folks become a breeder population for some manner or other of "Dead" diseases, and cross over the Borders of California into the rest of the contiguous USA. Being here in Arizona, I'll probably find out soonest.

I hope your views don't come to bite you, and the rest of us, on the ass.

Best fortune.

Greg
 
probably going to be an unpopular thought but...

I always wondered how today's diseases would be had there been less, if any, vaccines and such advanced medical tech developed. Back in the day people died out of certain illnesses and their genes werent passed on to spread it. Possible that the advancement of the medical field while helping a person currently is actually weakening and allowing these illnesses to widen? Doesnt apply for everything but some things have to make you wonder. Cancer for one...heart disease...kidney disease...immuno depressed, etc. Everyone and their mother being deathly allergic to peanuts all of a sudden?

Now before anyone gets up in a fit...if this was how the world would be today I'd have been dead in my first few years of life in one of those groups.

A little off topic but not at the same time.
 
Genetic adaptations/mutations won't make a difference for viruses and bacterial infections. All you have to do is look at the imposition of the Europeans into indigenous populations and see how fast the diseases they carried absolutely decimated the locals to see that.

What you (maybe) are hinting at is the whole survival-of-the-fittest belief. Genetically stronger, perhaps. But genetics won't stop a killer virus. The average life expectancy for the world average up until about 1900 was barely 40!! It is over 70 now. Advances in medical science, vaccines, and cures/remedies more than likely have a very strong correlation to that number increasing so much.
 
probably going to be an unpopular thought but...

I always wondered how today's diseases would be had there been less, if any, vaccines and such advanced medical tech developed. Back in the day people died out of certain illnesses and their genes werent passed on to spread it. Possible that the advancement of the medical field while helping a person currently is actually weakening and allowing these illnesses to widen? Doesnt apply for everything but some things have to make you wonder. Cancer for one...heart disease...kidney disease...immuno depressed, etc. Everyone and their mother being deathly allergic to peanuts all of a sudden?

Now before anyone gets up in a fit...if this was how the world would be today I'd have been dead in my first few years of life in one of those groups.

A little off topic but not at the same time.

Butterfly Effect, anyone...?

But seriously, here's another little medical/anatomical tidbit.

It is believed that less than half of the cells in a human body are actually human in origin. Many (most?) of the majority are beneficial symbiotes and/or dormant disease pathogens.

Another point. Caesarean Section surgery may be attributed with many of the diseases we see that should have been prevented by Maternal Immunity. Since such child delivery bypasses the traditional immunization acquired as the child passes through the reproductive cavity, they are deprived of much (most) of their natural immunity.

Seen another way, it's a natural form of vaccination. So maybe vaccination is the most natural part of immunity, and maybe, a lot of the medical issues plaguing the species are both preventable, and caused by one of the most common modern obstetrical practices.

So maybe some of the things our dear friends the (insert category here) know are just not so true after all (to paraphrase Ronald Reagan).

Greg
 
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probably going to be an unpopular thought but...

I always wondered how today's diseases would be had there been less, if any, vaccines and such advanced medical tech developed.

The good old days...

From the 1500s onward, till around the year 1800, life expectancy throughout Europe hovered between 30 and 40 years of age. Since the early 1800s, Finch writes that life expectancy at birth has doubled in a period of only 10 or so generations. Improved health care, sanitation, immunizations, access to clean running water, and better nutrition are all credited with the massive increase. Though it’s hard to imagine, doctors only began regularly washing their hands before surgery in the mid-1800s. A better understanding of hygiene and the transmission of microbes has since contributed substantially to public health. Disease was still common, however, and impacted life expectancy. Parasites, typhoid, and infections like rheumatic fever and scarlet fever were all common during the 1800s.

Source
 
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Yes, wasnt specifically talking about viral/bacterial. Just a general whole.

Also not saying medical advancement hasnt helped, it has a ton. But what has helped and what has just made things worsen? What if we advanced in sanitation, clean water, better nutrition and general health care but still not treated diseases that can be passed on? Would the life expectancy be the same with less large health problems(cancer, passable diseases)? Or would it be slightly less with no health problems except getting some viral/bacterial problems.

ie. Cancer or PKD. most times without treatment it means suffering and death, sometimes young before you can reproduce. For example my mother had bad PKD but with advancements was treated and didnt die young like she was supposed to, birthed my sister and I and later had complete kidney removal and a transplant. She is "cured" of the disease but she passed it along to my sister and I who have a good chance of passing it on to our kids further widening the spectrum. Had she or her mother died it would have stopped with them.

These are the things I end up thinking about in the woods or when fish arent biting. I have no agenda...I'm thankful for advancements because if there were none id surely have never seen my second birthday. Just things that pass through my head, right, wrong, stupid or indifferent.
 
We disagree, on this, and I agree with you on most everything else; so I'm leaving this all here unaltered.

I think your take on public health and larger societal obligations than our individual cherished beliefs is a bit on the selfish side, but nobody's (I hope) going to die from our differences.

In fact, we'll probably see this being put to the test when all those unvaccinated "undocumented" folks become a breeder population for some manner or other of "Dead" diseases, and cross over the Borders of California into the rest of the contiguous USA. Being here in Arizona, I'll probably find out soonest.

I hope your views don't come to bite you, and the rest of us, on the ass.

Best fortune.

Greg

That's a great post and I agree with it.

The whole freedom vs. functioning society balance, is something that there is no clear cut unchanging answer to and sometimes it has to change one way or another as events unfold.
I tend to reflexively lean more dogmatically towards one side (which may not always be a good thing), While others also have good valid reasons for leaning towards the other side.

It won't just be you in AZ finding out about the latest diseases from foreign countries, us over in TX will probably find out pretty quickly too.

I'm not really worried about most of the previously "common" childhood diseases like measles, mumps, chickenpox, etc., as I had them all, but if some of the more exotic stuff that really messes folks up starts showing up here thanks to our "valued new undocumented residents", I'll most likely be getting vaccinated for it, possibly also getting Rabies vaccinations eventually as well.
 
All hypotheticals. yes. But I would counter with this: if in the 10,000 years of human evolution, humans have only progressed to typically only live to be 40-ish, but in the last 100 years, they have almost doubled that expectancy, then how would more time for evolution to take hold result in the same sort of exponential change? Trend analysis would say that humans would still be in the 40-ish year range? Greeks and Romans had sanitation and running water. It wasn't like advancements were completely stagnant until the industrial revolution/20th century.
 
Vaxxers spread more germs than anti vaxxers. Pretty much all anti vaxxers I know, are very hygenic and wash their hands responsibly. Vaxxers have this auroa of "protection" they believe and think they dont need to be as hygenic when it comes to being around lots of people and washing their hands.

"Whos cares? Ive already had the flu shot." Ive heard it more than once.

And if some of you think I should get the flu shot, to keep you "safe" from getting the flu, you can simply kiss my ass. I wash my hands and cover my face with my arm when I sneeze. If I get sick its because one of you with the "force shield" vaccince didnt wash your hands before you grabbed that handle.
 
@Greg Langelius * I read your first post in this thread and was going to warn you that you were going to be accused of being a brain washed freedom hating statist commie, but I was too late...

I've got school aged kids in my house so anti-vaxxers come up a lot in conversation. So do flat-earthers. But, we don't say stupid in our house...
 
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Vaxxers spread more germs than anti vaxxers. Pretty much all anti vaxxers I know, are very hygenic and wash their hands responsibly. Vaxxers have this auroa of "protection" they believe and think they dont need to be as hygenic when it comes to being around lots of people and washing their hands.

"Whos cares? Ive already had the flu shot." Ive heard it more than once.

And if some of you think I should get the flu shot, to keep you "safe" from getting the flu, you can simply kiss my ass. I wash my hands and cover my face with my arm when I sneeze. If I get sick its because one of you with the "force shield" vaccince didnt wash your hands before you grabbed that handle.

Generally in the west your average younger person doesn't have a good understanding of how to not spread all kinds of germs/viruses/bacteria and general filth because we tend to live in what might be best described as "clean" countries with proper sanitation, health services, good medicine and such. Which is all fine and good. However I think it will lead to a lot of people getting very ill very quickly if a breakdown in all the services that keep everything decent happens.

I tend to be a lot more careful than most about keeping things clean, keeping my hands washed, spraying down disinfectant on handles and other surfaces in common use rooms and bathrooms etc. Because I spent a lot of time in countries where you had to observe strict rules for not contaminating things, such as outdoor shoes only touching designated entry areas and shoes that were inside only never touching them, and having to change street clothes right away when coming in from outside and all that kind of stuff because there were lots of filthy things ready to make you sick.

Then after all our advancements, you get places like SF and other cities in CA where they literally let people poop on the streets, pretty much undoing 100 years of making a "clean" country.

Then there are other countries that take it a bit further in keeping it clean to where if you have a cough/cold etc. It's your civic duty to wear a face mask while out in public to protect others & even the children understand it. That I thought was a nice touch.
 
Anti-Vaxers are total and complete idiots. Anyone who deprives their child of a vaccine that may well prevent a disease resulting in death and other life-time problems should be prosecuted for child endangerment. Anyone who is a stupid enough to think their children do not need vaccines, should have been surgically prevented from having children.

Alternatively, I encourage all such morons to find a plot of land, a very large plot, up in Alaska and live together, inbreed, die out and spare the rest of us the stupidity they exhibit and stop containmiating the human gene pool with such total moron ideas.

The real question I have is how, and why, firearms forum attract such morons.
 
Well fortunately we are still in a free country and can discuss our sides freely & your ideas are just your ideas, not public policy.
 
probably going to be an unpopular thought but...

I always wondered how today's diseases would be had there been less, if any, vaccines and such advanced medical tech developed. Back in the day people died out of certain illnesses and their genes werent passed on to spread it. Possible that the advancement of the medical field while helping a person currently is actually weakening and allowing these illnesses to widen?

I rock climb with a guy born in India... he constantly says Americans need more poo in our lives... as an Indian, he cannot get sick.

Either you die or you don't- Those that don't die have a great immunity (and are short)

-
the data to your question exists in poor parts of the world

1571264305019.png
 
Dunno.

Got out a meeting at church, made some dinner, decided to see how everyone was doing with their flu shots and saw it.

Dont care enough to go read back......
 
Most people who get the flu don't even know they have it, they just think they have a cold for a couple days and then recover.

Most people who "get the flu" have a run of the mill rhinovirus.
No one, I don't care how healthy you are, gets over the real flu in a couple days.

If you don't feel like hammered shit for a couple weeks, you did NOT have influenza.

But.....I'll defer to @powdahound76 for his professional opinion.
I am not a medical doctor but I have taken a hepacritter oath.
 
I must of missed the flu shot or not with being an anti-vaxxer correlation in here somewhere.
I have taken the standard vax per regular requirements.
Haven't had a flu shot in my life.
I get sick, on average, every 8-10 years.
I have many family members who are required to for their vocation.
Most of them cycle through an illness once a year or better.
Probably as a result of their added exposure.

R
 
I typically do not get the flu shot. I have had the flu and it did suck alot, but I really dont prefer to get stuck with needles when I feel as if the efficacy is minimal. If it were a 100% thing or even an 80% thing I would probably be on board though.
 
lol I love the responses that pop up when these topics are posted on here.

I believe in vaccines and get that as needed/required for employment. I’ve lived in some shitty places and been exposed to plenty. My wife and kid do the same. We are all still kicking and healthy as can be.

However that’s too small of a sample size to hold any sort of weight in a debate over vaccinations. Even if every SH member had the exact same experience and felt the same way, the sample size is still too small to support either side of the debate.

That being said, the real way to build your immune system is to lick the door knobs and hand rails at the VA. I’ve been doing that since 2007 and I feel great.

Then again, it could just be that 1. I actually died years ago in Iraq and this is all a simulation/purgatory or 2. All of the energy drinks and alcohol I’ve consumed has made me invincible. I’m cool with either I guess.
??
 
Advances in medical science, vaccines, and cures/remedies more than likely have a very strong correlation to that number increasing so much.

Yeah. You are only slightly correct. Very slight.

Water and sewage, and the treatment thereof is the largest boon to modern health we enjoy today. The surest way to be exposed to a deadly disease, is contact with contaminated water.
The BEST way to avoid contracting a disease, is avoiding EXPOSURE in the first place.

If we had 19th century water and waste treatment, all the fancy vaccine in the world would be tantamount to the smallest bandaid in the box....you know, that little one for pinkies and pimples.

Oh...and I do happen to know what I'm talking about on that subject.