Flying Through the USA with a gun (Non US Citizen)

[beetroot]

Not sure where best to post this, assume this forum is section is as good as any.

I am planning to fly to Europe which likely involves going through the USA with a rifle.
I've done a lot of research and found the requirements for travelling to the USA (need a ATF 6NIA form) but have read that it is not required if just transiting the US. I have applied for a 6NIA form anyway but not sure it'll be approved as I don't meet the requirements (don't have a hunting permit or a US match invitation).

I have read if you don't clear customs that you don't need any paperwork for the US, but I'll likely be going through LAX and need to change terminals which requires me to clear customs.

Has any of the foreigners on the Hide been in this situation and can offer guidance?

 

[Bakwa]

You will be denied for your 6NIA. You just don't meet the criteria.
Beyond that, when you get to the US, it's not uncommon to have to hop from one gate to another to change planes. While doing so, you will not have access to your checked bags between flights. The Airlines will remain in charge of them the whole time.
*When flying interstate, I can make a connecting flight through a state [such as NY] with a firearms checked in my luggage, and it's fine because the airline is handling it, not me. Your final destination is all that matters in this case.*
Assuming international flights are treated the same, you shouldn't have an issue.

If you're concerned about it, I would find a U.S. customs number and give them a call. They should be able to clarify for you.

Cheers

 

[Char'ed Cuterie]

You'll need some specialized help answering this question, which I hope someone will be along shortly for.

I have one nugget to help here, though:

LAX is different, sometimes profoundly different, than any other CONUS airport I've ever had the displeasure of transiting through. As you are already aware, LAX does indeed make you go ALL the way out of the airport secure area when changing terminals, and that means you have to go ALL the way out (including customs) and then ALL the way back in (including security) all over again. They do not care about special circumstances, they do not care about what arrangements this might break, everybody goes all the way out and back again. They can also be about a quarter mile apart, I distinctly remember running most of that difference because I had no concept of such fuckery and hadn't planned on it.

I'm hopeful that somebody local to LAX or who otherwise knows better can come along and help with this, but I don't personally know any way around it. If life changed for me and I had to fly through the West Coast again, I would honestly consider paying TRIPLE to fly out of a different airport - anything but LAX. For your circumstances, I would look VERY hard at what it would take to fly direct to your destination instead of accepting a layover in a yet-third country.

 

[pronelife]

@chare'd cuterie is correct, there are certain us airports processing international flights where everybody claims baggage/clears customs/immigration before continuing their journey. your airline "should be" able to confirm if you have to take physical possession of baggage before your final destination. although firearms are not supposed to end up on carousels with the rest of checked luggage, i've had it happen; normally you have to contact the baggage office of your carrier to retrieve restricted items.

if you find yourself in a situation where you're not sure how to proceed, DO NOT take physical possession of cases with firearms and/or ammunition without consulting the geniuses of TSA (transportation safety admin) (they're everywhere in the airport); explain your situation and have them escort you to the baggage office before claiming any restricted items.

 

[Edsel]

Beyond that, when you get to the US, it's not uncommon to have to hop from one gate to another to change planes. While doing so, you will not have access to your checked bags between flights. The Airlines will remain in charge of them the whole time.

Not always.

Circumstances are unclear to me - but when taking a flight out of the USA, from State A connecting to LAX, and from LAX to a foreign country - you sometimes do have to claim your luggage at LAX and resubmit them for the outgoing flight.

EDIT: Looks like they already went through it in detail above.

 

[beetroot]

I wont be flying the same airline the whole way through, so am fairly sure I'll need to clear customs.
Every time I've been through LAX I have needed to clear customs, especially if there is a gate change.

I can look to see if there is another airport I can transit through (SFO, JFK etc) but it would be nice to have some sort of permit that allows me to legally have position of a rifle in the USA, but as @Bakwa said I think my 6NIA will be declined.

I did find this statement from the CBP which is very very vague. Says I don't need a 6NIA form but may need a permit from the Department of Commerce or Department of State, I don't know why they would use the word may here, either I do or I don't.

"Generally, if a non-citizen who is temporarily bringing firearm(s) and/or ammunition into the United States for reasons other than legitimate hunting or lawful sporting purposes is not required to have an ATF Form 6NIA (5330.3D) application. For example, if a non-citizen will be driving through the United States as a short cut to get from one part of Canada to another and have a firearm, the non-citizen does not need to file an ATF Form 6NIA because the non-citizen is not temporarily bringing the firearm in for hunting or other lawful sporting purposes.

However, the nonimmigrant alien may need to obtain a temporary import permit from the Department of Commerce or Department of State"

I guess I'll need to contact the Department of Commerce, or just phone the ATF.

 

[pronelife]

ATF most likely won't answer the phone and even more likely don't know/won't advise on TSA policies. call your airline. each airline has their own policies for firearms and ammunition transport posted on their website, often more restrictive than TSA. be familiar with each airlines weight allowance for ammo before you get to the airport, you will most likely be asked at check-in. for example, american airlines (AA) and united airlines (ua) allow 11lbs/5kg. your airline will have infinitely more current info than what's available here.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Just a point of clarification.......

It would be highly unusual to have to (re) clear customs or security if only changing gates within the same concourse.

If someone has to change airlines that are in different concourses (that are not connected/mutually sterile/behind security), then yes, you will in all likeliehood have to at least go through security again, and possibly customs.

I've transported firearms domestically (Phoenix to Seattle) via Delta airlines and it was pretty painless. Both Delta and TSA's websites spelled everything out pretty clearly. So much so that I was a bit paranoid, ie; "what am I missing ?".

I've never transported firearms internationally, so I have no experience that I can relate.

 

[beetroot]

Just a point of clarification.......

It would be highly unusual to have to (re) clear customs or security if only changing gates within the same concourse.

If someone has to change airlines that are in different concourses (that are not connected/mutually sterile/behind security), then yes, you will in all likeliehood have to at least go through security again, and possibly customs.

I've transported firearms domestically (Phoenix to Seattle) via Delta airlines and it was pretty painless. Both Delta and TSA's websites spelled everything out pretty clearly. So much so that I was a bit paranoid, ie; "what am I missing ?".

I've never transported firearms internationally, so I have no experience that I can relate.

LAX has 9 (I think) different terminals and they won't move your baggage between them.

In the past I've flown into T2 cleared customs, walked 5 mine (if that) to T3 and checked in to another airline.

 

[beetroot]

ATF most likely won't answer the phone and even more likely don't know/won't advise on TSA policies. call your airline. each airline has their own policies for firearms and ammunition transport posted on their website, often more restrictive than TSA. be familiar with each airlines weight allowance for ammo before you get to the airport, you will most likely be asked at check-in. for example, american airlines (AA) and united airlines (ua) allow 11lbs/5kg. your airline will have infinitely more current info than what's available here.

The airlines do have their own policy, but when it comes to the requirements for the country you are visiting that is on you to sort out.

If I were traveling to the US it would be easy (form 6NIA) required, but just transit through a US airport is the problem.

Based on the reputation of TSA (well all of US customs at the moment) I don't want to just turn up in the US and just hope for the best.
Especially knowing I may need to clear customs and end up on US soil.