For All the KWilsons of the World, With Their "Unique" Points of View

Veer_G

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Just a little something to consider, while you, KWilson, enjoy the "privileges" (they're RIGHTS here) that your professional status affords you.

We do love our cousins, all of them. We forgive them their silliness, attributable, perhaps, to their Commonwealth status and the difference of our separate and distinct political development: subjects, though distanced and independent through the begrudging resignation of the Crown, versus citizens, who asserted the sovereignty of the American states, and recognized those Natural Rights so lovingly described and scriven in the enlightened political philosophies of the 18th century.

Forgive me, if you find me didactic. Admittedly, I am a trained teacher, and the urge to enlighten one mired in the dimness of error is thus instinctive.

Anon, forthwith, the sermon, without further ado ...

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This advertisement was published in American Rifleman, November 1940

In 1940, 75 years ago, the British stood alone against Hitler’s war machine. From May 27 through June 4, the British evacuated more than 300,000 troops from France in the face of the advancing German Blitzkreig. It was called the “Miracle of Dunkirk," but while the soldiers were able to fight another day, they left much of the equipment—especially arms—on the beach. The American Committee for the Defense of British Homes ran this notice in the November 1940 American Rifleman.

Due to policies of civilian disarmament, the British people were stripped of their guns by their own government policies, arms needed to defend themselves against potential Nazi invasion. Individual American responded to the call, but most of the guns were never returned. One rifle, however, due to reasons that you can read in this article, did indeed come back to the United States.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...thursday-send-a-gun-to-defend-a-british-home/

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8/23/2012

Though every Englishman should hear what this particular rifle has to say about the Olympics, England and individual rights, I didn’t set out to embarrass this particular English journalist. It’s just that he had it coming.

Let’s just call him Stephen Grey, as that’s his real name. He’s not a bad sort. Grey was educated at England’s famed St. Alban’s School and studied philosophy at Oxford. He has outsized ears and somehow seems too tall for his boyish face. These features give him a look of young innocence you soon find is matched by sincerity. Then you run into his intellect and really like him. He wrote his last book, Into the Viper’s Nest, after being imbedded with soldiers in Afghanistan. He saw firsthand what the Taliban did to women. He knows all about the barbaric things al-Qaeda has done to a few of his colleagues. He knows jihadists consider civilians to be fair game. He knows about much uglier things than these. Nevertheless, he doesn’t think people should have the right to have firearms for self-defense.

Grey was seated across a table from me at a small dinner party some months ago in Washington, D.C., saying things like, “Americans need to give up their guns. They must become responsible citizens of the world.” Meanwhile, the other writers around the table—people who know my background—were glancing at me, bracing for the counterattack.

I stayed quiet as he described his utopian vision of a disarmed world like John Lennon singing “Imagine no possessions … I wonder if you can … . ” I wanted him to be fully committed before I engaged.

Minutes later, as he paused to view the effect of his anti-gun offensive on a table full of Americans, I opted for an attack he likely hadn’t encountered before. I didn’t think he’d be swayed by crime statistics. And if I cited the dramatic English history of individual rights—and the loss thereof—he’d probably quote Friedrich Nietzsche’s Beyond Good and Evil to contend there is no absolute right and wrong and therefore no real individual rights. That philosophical discussion, as interesting as it might be, would be a smokescreen for his retreat. What I needed was a way at the truth he hadn’t encountered before, so I drew him in with the true story of a particular Springfield Model 1903.

“Stephen,” I began, “I understand that a world without guns in private hands, and therefore a world where a 110-pound woman can no longer shoot down a 200-pound rapist, is appealing to you. But let me tell you about a very special rifle. Its story just might make you rethink your views.”

He eyed me over his whiskey and soda.

This particular rifle, I explained, is chambered in .30-’06 Sprg. It was built in 1905 or 1906 in Springfield, Mass. It’s a bolt-action Springfield Model of 1903 with the serial number 264631. Major John W. Hession (1877-1961), an American long-range competition shooter, purchased the rifle. He likely bought it in 1906. He topped it with a J. Stevens Co. riflescope and took it to the range. He found the rifle was so accurate that he took it to England to compete in the Olympics in 1908 at the Bisley Range. Then, in 1909, he used the rifle to set a world record at 800 yards at Camp Perry. At the time The Piqua Leader-Dispatch (a newspaper that went out of business in 1919) ran the headline “World’s Record is Broken By Hession” on its front page. The feat made him a star. So much so that the June 1911 issue of Forest and Stream reported that when Hession competed at the DuPont Gun Club they were “especially pleased to have Mr. Hession with them. He is regarded by critics as the foremost long-range rifle shot in the world. His most remarkable performance, and the one which brought him the most fame, was at Camp Perry during 1909. At this time he made 67 consecutive bullseyes at 800 yards, a record never before equaled nor since broken.”

Hession was a top long-range competitor well into the 1940s. He won the Wimbledon Cup in 1932. And that wasn’t his first victory there. The Chicago Daily News Almanac and Year-Book for 1921 lists Hession as the winner of the Wimbledon Cup in 1919 as well. In fact, a Remington ad in Arms & The Man in 1914 boasted that Hession used Remington ammunition to win the Marine Corps Cup Match in 1913.

His impact on competitive shooting earned him a parting tribute in the April 1962 issue of American Rifleman. His obituary ran just after one for Col. Townsend Whelen. It reported that “one of his major achievements was to set four world records in one day. This he did on July 3, 1925 while competing in the Eastern Small Bore Championships at Sea Grit, New Jersey. In accomplishing this he fired 102 shots all of which, including sighting shots, were bullseyes.”

Clearly Hession was a renowned rifleman. He also had an understandable attachment to this particular 1903 Springfield. Such a profound attachment, in fact, that he later did something even more remarkable with the rifle.

World War II Gun Drive

After World War I England passed gun-control laws that mostly disarmed its citizenry. The belief that there should be “a rifle in every cottage,” as proposed by England’s Prime Minister, Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, in 1900 was finished. According to the 1689 Bill of Rights “subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law.” This changed with England’s Firearms Act of 1920. Its restrictions on the private ownership of firearms was partly sold to a war-weary public by politicians fanning fears that a surge in crime might occur because of the large number of firearms available following the war. Another justification for severely restricting firearm ownership was to fulfill a commitment to the 1919 Paris Arms Convention.

Whatever the rationale, the Firearms Act of 1920 passed and required an English citizen who wanted to own a firearm to first obtain a firearm certificate. The certificate, which was good for three years, specifically listed the firearm a person was approved to own and listed the amount of ammunition he or she could buy or possess. The police even had the power to exclude anyone who had “intemperate habits” or an “unsound mind.” Applicants for certificates also had to convince the police they had a good reason for needing a certificate. The 1920 law did not affect those who owned shotguns, but it gave government officials complete control over who could own handguns and rifles.

In 1933 the English Parliament next passed the Firearms and Imitation Firearms Bill. It increased the punishment for the use of a gun in the commission of a crime. Possession of a real or imitation firearm was also made an offence unless the person could show he had the firearm for “a lawful object.” A few years later England passed the 1937 Firearms Act. It extended restrictions to shotguns and granted chief constables the power to add conditions to individual firearm certificates. Clearly the power was in the hands of the state, not the individual.

Predictably such restrictions reduced the number of firearms in law-abiding citizens’ hands. Then came the Battle of Dunkirk in 1940. As the German war machine advanced, the British Expeditionary Force evacuated back across the English Channel. The retreat was costly. In their haste British troops abandoned most of their equipment. The massive loss of military arms, combined with the fact that the English people had been mostly disarmed, left the British people almost helpless before the advance of the Third Reich.

Luckily, they had gun-owning friends across the Atlantic. In 1940 a group of Americans, headed by C. Suydam Cutting, moved quickly to help rearm England’s citizens. They established the “American Committee for Defense of British Homes” and ran an ad in the November 1940 issue of American Rifleman that read in part: “British Civilians, undergoing nightly air raids, are in desperate need of Firearms – Binoculars – Steel Helmets – Stop-Watches – Ammunition.” The ad then said, “If you possess any of these articles you can aid in the battle of Britain by sending these materials to American Committee for Defense of British Homes.”

Hession, who was then working for Winchester Arms, decided to make a statement. He sent his prized Springfield Model 1903 to the American Committee for Defense of British Homes. Before he did he had two plates attached to its stock. The one on the rifle’s butt read: “This rifle was used by Major John W. Hession” and was used “in winning Olympics Bisley England 1908 – Grand Aggregate Camp Perry 1908 – Worlds 800 YD. Record Camp Perry 1909 … .” A plate placed on the rifle’s fore-end read: “FOR OBVIOUS REASONS THE RETURN OF THIS RIFLE AFTER GERMANY IS DEFEATED WOULD BE DEEPLY APPRECIATED.”

Hession’s rifle was shipped to England. Before the end of the war the NRA alone sent more than 7,000 private firearms to England. The U.S. government, of course, sent many more. Congress passed the Lend-Lease Act in March 1941. Almost immediately, quantities of “U.S. Rifle, Cal. .30, M1” and others were headed across the Atlantic.

Winston Churchill was appreciative. He wrote in Their Finest Hour: “When the ships from America approached our shores with their priceless arms, special trains were waiting in all ports to receive their cargoes. The Home Guard in every county, in every village, sat up through the night to receive them ... . By the end of July we were an armed nation ... . Anyhow, if we had to go down fighting … a lot of our men and some women had weapons in their hands … .”

England, of course, was victorious after American troops entered the war and made the difference. And wonderfully, after the war Hession’s rifle found its way back from England to Hession. It can now be seen in the NRA’s National Firearms Museum in Fairfax, Va.

Flash Forward to the 2012 Olympics

By this time Grey had finished his whiskey and soda and was staring at the melting ice at the bottom of his glass. Even though he was dry, I wasn’t going to let him off without bayoneting the last of his anti-gun point of view. So I said, “Perhaps it is too obvious at this point to use the old axiom ‘those who don’t know their history are bound to repeat it,’ nevertheless today, sadly, Britain is again a disarmed nation.”

So disarmed, I pointed out, that law-abiding residents were helpless when Tottenham’s gangster youth decided to loot stores, mug residents and vandalize automobiles in August 2011 after police had shot and killed a person following a car chase.

Tottenham’s High Road was ground zero for the riots, which have an interesting tie-in to the history outlined here. The “Tottenham Outrage” of 1909—yes, the same “Tottenham” where the 2011 riots took place—was a famous gunfight that exhibited a very different English character.

Two men in Tottenham, armed with semi-automatic handguns, attempted to rob a payroll truck, but when the guards fought back the robbers fled on foot. The chase lasted two hours and covered about six miles as officers and armed civilians pursued the robbers. In the end one of the thieves committed suicide and the other later died in surgery. One officer and one civilian were also killed. The bravery of the officers and civilians prompted the creation of the Kings Police Medal and the funeral processions for the slain officer and the civilian passed through streets lined with mournful Londoners.

Yes, a lot has changed since the English people gave up their right to bear arms.

These days, to obtain a firearm certificate in England the police must be convinced that a person has “good reason” to own a firearm, and that he can be trusted with it “without danger to the public safety or to the peace.” English firearms licenses are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting, collecting or work-related reasons for ownership. And no, since 1946, self-defense has not been considered a valid reason to own a firearm—nor has national defense. So those armed civilians who helped the police in the Tottenham Outrage would, at best, only be bystanders today and at worst be victims.

Indeed, England’s Firearms Act of 1997 banned the private ownership of handguns almost completely. The ban is so restrictive that even England’s Olympic pistol team had to go abroad to practice. That became such a national embarrassment that the English government passed a special dispensation to allow the shooting events to be held in England during the 2012 games.

It’s also worth noting that at the opening ceremonies for the 1908 Olympics held in England—the one Hession had competed in—the USA team noticed there was no American flag among the national flags flying in the stadium. As a result, team USA’s captain and flag-bearer, Martin Sheridan, refused to dip the Stars and Stripes as he passed King Edward VII’s box during the parade of athletes. “This flag dips to no earthly king,” Sheridan later explained.

After relating all of this history to Grey, I ended with the moral of the story: “Now don’t you fret Grey, if your people ever need to protect their freedom again from threats domestic or foreign, thanks to the NRA, Americans will be there to help rearm your populace all over again.”

He didn’t even attempt a retreating volley.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/8/23/the-hession-rifle/
 

pitdog85

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Spot on mate wish every Australian would read that. We are also almost a disarmed nation same as England and you bet when in trouble the first call our disarmed country will make is to the US. Maybe the US ought to turn its back on us here in Australia and the UK so that maybe just maybe the masses here can get it through their thick heads when China/Russia and NK come knocking on our door!!!!
 

KWilson

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I'm quite flattered but it's completely unnecessary. You shouldn't have gone to all this trouble because I wanted to gain some perspective as to how you guys feel every time an incident like Las Vegas occurs. I originally posted a news article from an Australian journalist - I didn't write it but I found it interesting in so far as what it means to you and whether there is anything you can do to minimise such events moving forward, because there are lobbyist groups in the US who would like to take guns off the street. So for the record I haven't expressed an opinion, I asked a question, which a few people seem to have inadvertently missed.

I mean be serious, one of the members on here lost loved ones in Las Vegas, so please get some perspective and show the poor bloke some support instead of trying to ridicule me. That's a complete waste of everyone's time. You would have been better served asking if there is anything you can do to help support bigjake.

As I previously said, not once have i suggested you ban guns in America. If you can find me a quote where I suggested that then please do. Some members on here understand what I have been saying, probably the most difficult thing is trying to converse with people who can discuss this terrible situation like rational adults.
 
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KWilson

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Spot on mate wish every Australian would read that. We are also almost a disarmed nation same as England and you bet when in trouble the first call our disarmed country will make is to the US. Maybe the US ought to turn its back on us here in Australia and the UK so that maybe just maybe the masses here can get it through their thick heads when China/Russia and NK come knocking on our door!!!!

It's worth reading but you can take the tin foil hat off regarding China/Russia/North Korea.
 

MtnCreek

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It's worth reading but you can take the tin foil hat off regarding China/Russia/North Korea.

With China buying up Australian farms, what do you think would happen if the was a worldwide food shortage? Chinese army might want to secure its investment.
 
D

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Spot on mate wish every Australian would read that. We are also almost a disarmed nation same as England and you bet when in trouble the first call our disarmed country will make is to the US. Maybe the US ought to turn its back on us here in Australia and the UK so that maybe just maybe the masses here can get it through their thick heads when China/Russia and NK come knocking on our door!!!!

We ignore our allies like we ignore our Bill of Rights. And still WIlson wishes we would just ignore China, Russia, and NK. Sort of like his grandfathers wished we had just ignored Japan. Our history books don't even criticize Australia for being complacent and whining about America letting the Japanese get so close to them. Think Guadalcanal.
 
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pmclaine

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    I'm quite flattered but it's completely unnecessary. You shouldn't have gone to all this trouble because I wanted to gain some perspective as to how you guys feel every time an incident like Las Vegas occurs. I originally posted a news article from an Australian journalist - I didn't write it but I found it interesting in so far as what it means to you and whether there is anything you can do to minimise such events moving forward, because there are lobbyist groups in the US who would like to take guns off the street. So for the record I haven't expressed an opinion, I asked a question, which a few people seem to have inadvertently missed.

    I mean be serious, one of the members on here lost loved ones in Las Vegas, so please get some perspective and show the poor bloke some support instead of trying to ridicule me. That's a complete waste of everyone's time. You would have been better served asking if there is anything you can do to help support bigjake.

    As I previously said, not once have i suggested you ban guns in America. If you can find me a quote where I suggested that then please do. Some members on here understand what I have been saying, probably the most difficult thing is trying to converse with people who can discuss this terrible situation like rational adults.

    How do you feel when there is a car crash with multiple death/injuries? How about an airplane crash when hundreds die?

    Do you knee jerk react in those instances and hope for government to "do something" to make you safer?

    Do you recognize any responsibility on your part for your own safety or is that totally the realm of government oversight?

    Who is better at ensuring your safety "you" or "govt"?


     

    bogeybrown

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    If you guys know when the invasion is coming I'd love to know...

    In many ways it's already happened mate. China has "quietly" purchased a huge portion of the world's (and Australia's) mineral resources and other strategic industries. Remember a few years ago when the Aussie dollar was ahead of the US dollar? Wasn't that largely due to China's demand for Aus copper? Remember when the Aus dollar dropped back down 30-40 cents? China slowed its copper mining.

    As mentioned above I believe they've also steadily bought up huge swaths of land in Oz. This puts them in a powerful position to "protect their investment. It's not a coincidence that there are US Marines garrisoned in Aus again, just like in WWII.

    They're playing the long game, and a military "invasion" would just be to shore up the conquest they'd already accomplished financially. They've already conquered a huge swath of Africa without a shot. They just used money and laborers instead of their uniformed personnel. Now they're building at least one permanent base in Africa to secure their interests.

    As for the other gun debate, I understood from whence your question arose. Every time I go to Bali to meet up with my Aussie friends I get bombarded by some bystander in a pub that hears the American accent and wants to educate me on everything we yanks are doing wrong. The last time I was there was during our Presidential election and the pub owner had to basically tell folks to piss off if all they wanted to talk to me about was Trump. I love you guys, amongst our commonwealth cousins I've found that a lot of Aussies are basically rednecks down under. However, being subjects of the Crown, it's difficult to understand the very subtle difference between us: Subjects are granted rights and privileges by their government; Citizens are born free and choose to grant powers to their government. Our second amendment is what reminds our government that they can only push our good will so far before we exercise our RIGHT to forcibly resist their abuse of our liberties.
     

    j-huskey

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    7Today's new York Times opinion piece by Bret Stephens .. "Repeal The Second Anendment"... .

    One of you computer literates pull the link or article over please..
     
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    pmclaine

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    I love you guys, amongst our commonwealth cousins I've found that a lot of Aussies are basically rednecks down under. However, being subjects of the Crown, it's difficult to understand the very subtle difference between us: Subjects are granted rights and privileges by their government; Citizens are born free and choose to grant powers to their government. Our second amendment is what reminds our government that they can only push our good will so far before we exercise our RIGHT to forcibly resist their abuse of our liberties.

    And a certain segment of our political spectrum that encompasses both parties is certainly pissed that the facts of the game are that in the end we control them.

    They are desperately trying to change that fact right now.

    I guess misery loves company and that is why Wilson wants us to be like Australia.
     

    mcameron

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    If you guys know when the invasion is coming I'd love to know...

    hmmmm, sounds like something poland would say circa 1938..... france would say circa 1939....

    a heavily armed populace is a deterrent from a govt take over by foreign and domestic aggressors.
     

    pmclaine

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    Today's new York Times opinion piece by Brad Wilson .. "Repeal The Second Anendment"... .

    One of you computer literates pull the link or article over please..

    WTF is wrong with these Wilson's?

    Ever since Woodrow.......
     

    pmclaine

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    I can't read this a.m., Bret Stephens...... sorry, Wilson's, Stephens, they all look alike, if you know what I mean...

    Jeans, resist t shirt, ponytail or optional man bun, birkenstocks and an imperious, smug, I know better than you attitude.....Yeah all the same.
     

    Veer_G

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    WTF is wrong with these Wilson's?

    Ever since Woodrow.......

    Wilson has to tell you your business from the other side of the fence, Tim. He's a tool, and *COUGH* this is his time. :rolleyes:
     

    Slash0311

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    I'm quite flattered but it's completely unnecessary. You shouldn't have gone to all this trouble because I wanted to gain some perspective as to how you guys feel every time an incident like Las Vegas occurs. I originally posted a news article from an Australian journalist - I didn't write it but I found it interesting in so far as what it means to you and whether there is anything you can do to minimise such events moving forward, because there are lobbyist groups in the US who would like to take guns off the street. So for the record I haven't expressed an opinion, I asked a question, which a few people seem to have inadvertently missed.

    I mean be serious, one of the members on here lost loved ones in Las Vegas, so please get some perspective and show the poor bloke some support instead of trying to ridicule me. That's a complete waste of everyone's time. You would have been better served asking if there is anything you can do to help support bigjake.

    As I previously said, not once have i suggested you ban guns in America. If you can find me a quote where I suggested that then please do. Some members on here understand what I have been saying, probably the most difficult thing is trying to converse with people who can discuss this terrible situation like rational adults.

    Here is the problem though. You're right. You've not said ban guns. However you come onto a gun website and ask a question. It'd be like me asking "wouldn't a reasonable person think alcohol is bad for you?" Your condescending tone says way more than your actual words.

    You said you're an armed federal officer. Would you consider using that firearm to protect your family if a criminal threatened you while out for an evening? Or would you do the proper thing and leave it at home if not working since most other common people can't have one to protect themselves?

    See how questions can sound?
     

    KWilson

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    Here is the problem though. You're right. You've not said ban guns. However you come onto a gun website and ask a question. It'd be like me asking "wouldn't a reasonable person think alcohol is bad for you?" Your condescending tone says way more than your actual words.

    You said you're an armed federal officer. Would you consider using that firearm to protect your family if a criminal threatened you while out for an evening? Or would you do the proper thing and leave it at home if not working since most other common people can't have one to protect themselves?

    See how questions can sound?

    Not allowed to take it home mate. We don't carry off duty here. And in no way shape or form have I been condescending. I asked a serious question and some people have been decent enough to provide a reasonable and logical answer. Others however just seem intent to make assumptions and throw insults, which is fine but it's just another reflection of the society in which we live.
     

    Clearlight

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    Spot on mate wish every Australian would read that. We are also almost a disarmed nation same as England and you bet when in trouble the first call our disarmed country will make is to the US. Maybe the US ought to turn its back on us here in Australia and the UK so that maybe just maybe the masses here can get it through their thick heads when China/Russia and NK come knocking on our door!!!!

    It would appear you are unaware of the extent of US assets here in Aus . ( and capability ]
    China does not have the fuel or resup capability to invade anything other
    than a deserted ocean , Antartica or an undefended hillside in the
    Himalaya . Their attempts at global domination have been economic .

    Judging by by the epic fucking stupidity I see at my local rifle range , I’m glad
    most of the population isn’t armed . I might live longer . I’m getting really
    tired of dumb cunts with RPRs topped with a $ 70 Tasco muzzle sweeping
    me with finger on trigger after a FTF , with their cheap ass factory ammo.

    Any invasion would be likely focused on the coastal population centres : no
    bloody way anyone is going to get thru the mangroves up north , then cross
    inland . Been to the desert ? Notice how much fuel you used ? Pretty obvious
    if a bunch of boats from China head to Sydney ..... Google ‘ US submarine
    fleet ‘ .
     

    Sixfivesavage

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    Aren't you guys in Australia just a bunch of criminals from England? Criminals shouldnt have guns...
     

    vh20

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    And in no way shape or form have I been condescending.

    Not true. Intentional or not, I can't say. But when you say you "feel sorry" for us every time this happens, and ask what we intend to do about it, you are implying, whether you intend to or not, that we should have more gun control. You also implied that if we were like Australia we wouldn't have this problem. If you have a different point, you are doing a terrible job of making it. That's on you. I'm telling you right here how what you are saying comes across. If you mean something different, try re-stating it. I don't think we misunderstood.

    I asked a serious question and some people have been decent enough to provide a reasonable and logical answer. Others however just seem intent to make assumptions and throw insults, which is fine but it's just another reflection of the society in which we live

    And I asked you a serious question in another thread:

    "And how do you feel for France with the 86 lives (half-again as many as Vegas) taken by a TRUCK (y'all have those in Australia?). How will you feel when they use something other than a gun in an attack in Australia (it will be coming, I'm sure)? Is it less horrifying for mass murder to be committed with some weapon other than a gun? Is it more difficult? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the attack in France was a LOT cheaper and a LOT easier and quicker to plan than all the effort the Vegas shooter went to."

    You dodged the question by saying it wasn't what you were talking about. But it IS. Mass murder is mass murder. There are infinite ways an evil person can execute an incident. It seems that if it happens with guns it is somehow much more terrible to you than by some other method. Why did you say you feel sorry for "us" every time this happens as if it's somehow different than what happened in France with a truck? As I said, it's a lot simpler and cheaper (and apparently even more deadly and effective) to just rent a truck on a moment's notice for 50 bucks. What do you think they should do about that in France? Did you ask them on a truck forum?

    And then here, you deflected by saying we shouldn't be ridiculing you (and I assure you that I, for one, am not), but should offer condolences (which many have) and try and support bigjake (who called you a "poofter" for your stance, as I recall).

    Again, if you have a different point, you need to try again because the above is the point you have made thus far. Again, you wanted a rational discussion and I am attempting just that. No ridiculing, no insult, but I will not hesitate to point out the contradictions in what you have said vs. what you claim you did or didn't.
     
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    Clearlight

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    ^^ I’m part Viking , not English , mate . Any dickhead nation that tries
    to invade Aus is headed to Destination Fucked . Anyone that thinks
    that a country the size of Aus ( 2750 ish by 2800 miles ) can be
    defended by a bunch of armed goobers that can’t hit past 100 yards ,
    is delusional . Without comms or strategy , they’d be shooting each
    other half the time
    EDiT : in reply to sixfivesavage .
     

    Maggot

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    Oh I see now. It's a control thing. You don't get a weapon off duty therefore nobody should have one. Federal officer my ass. More like a resentment attached to an entitlement.
     

    mcameron

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    ^^ I’m part Viking , not English , mate . Any dickhead nation that tries
    to invade Aus is headed to Destination Fucked . Anyone that thinks
    that a country the size of Aus ( 2750 ish by 2800 miles ) can be
    defended by a bunch of armed goobers that can’t hit past 100 yards ,
    is delusional . Without comms or strategy , they’d be shooting each
    other half the time
    EDiT : in reply to sixfivesavage .

    there are a bunch of half trained cave dwellers in the middle east that have been doing a pretty good job of it for a while now with rusty relics...........but maybe the Afghani/ Iraqi are just better shots than you Australians ....
     

    Clearlight

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    there are a bunch of half trained cave dwellers in the middle east that have been doing a pretty good job of it for a while now with rusty relics...........but maybe the Afghani/ Iraqi are just better shots than you Australians ....

    Done plenty of time in the mountains over that way , they can shoot ok .
    Lived in a few caves / hides in the Himalayan chain , easy to disappear .
    Some of us shoot a lot better . Given the time and money the US has
    spent in the countries you mentioned , ahh , no , I won’t say it .
    Australia is largely rather flat = lots of long shots . Come and visit , the
    coffee is much better than the percolated shit in the US .

    EDIT : the average Aussie is better at doing shots at the bar ....
     
    Last edited:

    Clearlight

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    Mr. Wilson ask your self one question........ if you could take your duty weapon home, would you? I think we all here know the answer......

    It is likely Queensland State Police will be allowed to take their duty
    firearm home soon , due to a chance in policy . Local PD have developed
    new CTU’s , and also increased training on AR type weapons and
    long guns for regular Officers . Not sure about other states in Aus .
     

    pmclaine

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    Judging by by the epic fucking stupidity I see at my local rifle range , I’m glad
    most of the population isn’t armed . I might live longer . I’m getting really
    tired of dumb cunts with RPRs topped with a $ 70 Tasco muzzle sweeping
    me with finger on trigger after a FTF , with their cheap ass factory ammo.

    Educate them.

    You need more friends not less. Why would you want to discourage anyone that is the slightest degree pro gun?

     

    Veer_G

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    Educate them.

    You need more friends not less. Why would you want to discourage anyone that is the slightest degree pro gun?

    Events like this tend to shake things out a bit, don't they? Give us a better idea of where everybody is coming from, and such.
     

    EddieNFL

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    However, being subjects of the Crown, it's difficult to understand the very subtle difference between us: Subjects are granted rights and privileges by their government; Citizens are born free and choose to grant powers to their government. Our second amendment is what reminds our government that they can only push our good will so far before we exercise our RIGHT to forcibly resist their abuse of our liberties.

    Difficult to appreciate (or understand) something you've never had. The Jews wanted to return to slavery in Egypt because that's what they knew.
     

    pmclaine

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    Done plenty of time in the mountains over that way , they can shoot ok .
    Lived in a few caves / hides in the Himalayan chain , easy to disappear .
    Some of us shoot a lot better . Given the time and money the US has
    spent in the countries you mentioned , ahh , no , I won’t say it .
    Australia is largely rather flat = lots of long shots . Come and visit , the
    coffee is much better than the percolated shit in the US .

    EDIT : the average Aussie is better at doing shots at the bar ....

    I know what you were about to say and appreciate that you did not say what you were thinking.

    I agree the amount of time spent in Afgh/Iraq is bad and I like you bemoan that fact.

    but....

    I also understand the bigger issue why this is so.

    A) There is no strategy. The Global War on Terror by definition is an unending war.

    B) Until January of 2017 the tactics have been based on not hurting the enemy while accepting death and injury to our troops to ensure the enemy is unhurt. Things have subtely changed for the better. ISIS/AQ are now being pressed and more random knifings/truck killings will be the norm as they experience their death rattle.

    Strategy and tactics not the personnel fighting.
     

    Sixfivesavage

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    ^^ I’m part Viking , not English , mate . Any dickhead nation that tries
    to invade Aus is headed to Destination Fucked . Anyone that thinks
    that a country the size of Aus ( 2750 ish by 2800 miles ) can be
    defended by a bunch of armed goobers that can’t hit past 100 yards ,
    is delusional . Without comms or strategy , they’d be shooting each
    other half the time
    EDiT : in reply to sixfivesavage .

    I was saying that sarcastically, not directing it at you. You make a good point about the idiots muzzle sweeping at the range and not being able to hit shit though. That goes back to people not being proficient with things because of lack of exposure. There's a prime example here. I don't know how things are down there but here in America there are a while bunch of people who can't run a fucking shovel or hammer because there are so few taught by anyone how to do any manual skilled labor or trade anymore. Everything is dominated by Hispanics as far as the building trades go. That carries over to everything in life. If people aren't growing up around firearms and taught the basics at least, it is extremely unlikely they will ever at least even be safe with them, much less proficient. That hurts a nation, weather we're talking about armed defense or construction.
     

    pitdog85

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    It would appear you are unaware of the extent of US assets here in Aus . ( and capability ]
    China does not have the fuel or resup capability to invade anything other
    than a deserted ocean , Antartica or an undefended hillside in the
    Himalaya . Their attempts at global domination have been economic .

    Any invasion would be likely focused on the coastal population centres : no
    bloody way anyone is going to get thru the mangroves up north , then cross
    inland . Been to the desert ? Notice how much fuel you used ? Pretty obvious
    if a bunch of boats from China head to Sydney ..... Google ‘ US submarine
    fleet ‘ .

    Right and hence the reliance on the US, my comments based on many Australians who push the australian gun laws and gun control on the US and are anti US military. These same people will be the first to cry for the US and their guns and military when one of these nations come.

    How would Australia fair without the US? a country the almost the size of continental US with what 24 million people. China a population of 1.3 billion with a military only god knows how big and expanding how fast? I'm a little less convinced than you. Id prefer to see more US presence in the north of the country.