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Sidearms & Scatterguns for the 1911 guys

HotAirBaloonInstructor

HotAirBaloonInstructor

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May 22, 2012
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I currently carry a G22 (big gun, I know). I love it, 40s&w is a great round in my opinion and the high capacity is great. Anyway, I've been considering a 1911. I know full size is going to be the best route but I like the idea of a subcompact 1911 like the kimber ultra cdp 2. My question is, are they really as unreliable as people make them seem to be?

Part two, for around 1500, what can be had with a proven track record?
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

not sure about Q#1
Q#2 - Springfield TRP is an awesome 1911 in that price range
 
Re: for the 1911 guys



+2 on the TRP, trp operater has a rail if you need one. The extra 1000 bucks buys a good amount of ammo.


ch
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

First, don't buy a 1911 unless you are committed to the time and rounds needed to be competent with it. This platform has been described as "easy to learn, difficult to master", and I'd say that is an understatement.

Next, Kimber made awesome guns, right up to the "II" series, then they began cutting corners and raising price. Now, it is an expensive gamble. I own 2 Kimbers and both took some work to get up to speed.

Next, buy a Springfield, MUCH better gun, very reasonably priced for what you get.

Last, a subcompact 1911 is not fun to shoot and can be a pain to keep reliable.

If it is the grip angle you like, look at other options like H&K or similar.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

"1911's as unreliable as people make them to be"

cuz a unreliable gun would still be around.... you guys crack me up.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Thanks for the input everyone. BigJoe, do you care to elaborate? I'm really liking the idea of a super small 1911 packing that .45acp power.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Me thinks Joe simply does not buy into any myth about the 1911 being unreliable.

- that's what I interpret from other posts he has made on the subject -

I don't mean to speak for him, that is only my thoughts on his post.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the input everyone. BigJoe, do you care to elaborate? I'm really liking the idea of a super small 1911 packing that .45acp power. </div></div>

I am in no way speaking for Joe, but there is a ton of mis interpretation of the issue on the interweb. Here is my.02 if you are only gonna carry it and maybe put a few rounds through it now and then then by all means have what you want. IF you plan to shoot it a lot and be proficient with it. get a full size or at least a commander length.

I have shot a ultra CDP 3" quite a few times and it is not much fun. You are correct when you say "all that in a small package" but it is not much fun to shoot IMO.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

I agree with the TRP being at the top of the list for the $$$ you are wanting to spend. I carry a Springfield Champion Operator on duty and I have had 0 reliability issues and it is well made. It is a top notch pistol minus the weight of the full size.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Part of the unreliable-ness of the 3 inch guns come from the steep feed ramp and shortened slide stroke. They become problematic with some defense ammo due to the hollow point catching on the feed ramp and causing a fail to feed. A good 1911 set up right in a 5" gun is reliable as all hell. Most of the malfunctions that give the gun its stigmatism of being unreliable are due to improper extractor tension, improper feed ramp angle, and some other things. I would personally get a Commander size at minimum.

For 1500ish I would look for a used Dan Wesson VBOB or a Springfield TRP and rock on.

Personally if I were looking at a Kimber, it would be a Series I gun, I would run away fast at any series II or recent production gun.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm really liking the idea of a super small 1911 packing that .45acp power. </div></div>

In principle, yea, awesome; in reality, they suck. Hard.

As 03 said, the smaller the barrel gets, the more complicated the physics becomes. If what you want is a really compact gun, get a Kahr PM40 and be done. If you want a 1911, forget the compact and get a Commander and a good holster.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

I would have to agree on the TRP or TRP Operator....Neither of mine have ever had any issues and both are far more accurate than I can be. That being said i would need a winter coat to Carry one without printing.


sstrpcv7.jpg



A few year ago SA made a 2nd run of Compacts that also were pretty much issue free and fine 1911's. Note that the 1st attempt was not so great and had all sorts of FTF, FTE issues.

You can possible find a used Compact but look for the one with the Alloy frame, Ambi Safety, tritium sights and Beaver Tail safety....Those were features the 1st attempt didn't have.

gflwtcptdj3.jpg


The Compact is a great shooter, easy to control and mine also has never not gone bang.

Now if you seriously want a Subcompact 1911 in .45 ACP look at the Colt LW New Agent that can be had with a Trench Site or ordered with regular sites.

The Colt is said to be a far better gun than the Kimber Subcompact Defender or EMP but I have no experience with the Kimber.

The New Agent will fit perfectly in a Ruger LCP leather holster. it is very slim, light with a 3 inch barrel and alloy frame very concealable even carring 230 grain ammo.

The New Agent is going to take some getting used to and a lot of range time but any 1911 platform is going to take some time due to the SA only and carring Cocked and locked .

coltnewagent45acpbywolf.jpg


Going with something like the LC9, M&P Shield in 40 you fill just as much muzzle snap as the .45 ACP if not maybe a bit more.

Karsten
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

I am a VERY experienced 1911 guy. Carried one everyday for work for 12 years. They require more user knowledge to maintain. They can be more sensitive to ammo and external factors. Under heavy use, they will suffer more parts failures than modern designs. The downside to that is most of those parts need to be fitted. They aren't drop in.

Big proponent of the 1911. I cut my teeth in them and serviced them for friends and co-workers. Today I run Glocks. Being a 1911 guy, I don't think a Glock 17 is big at all.

The two main issues you will run into with subcompact 1911s is they run faster. As such they are more sensitive to weak springs, out of spec feed lips and mag springs. They also are more likely to jam of you don't have a firm grip on the platform. I.e. Scuffle or ECQ fight.

This is more of an issue with 45 in subcompact, but be aware that shooting full-weight bullets in shorter barrels leads to slower FPS. Which will be an issue with HP ammo and expansion. I.E. 230g 45ACP in a 3" will not hit 800-850fps in some cases.

Being a 40, probably not as much of an issue but you need to confirm over chronograph to be sure. And IMO, 40S&W in a full-sized, steel 1911 is the cat's meow.

So...sure. If you are committed to the round, and the platform, rock on. But be aware of where you need it to be at.

TTR
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

had a Para Ordnance warthog for a while. double-stack ten round. couldn't get it to feed factory HP rounds reliably, sent to factory for testing, they said it was fine, it wasn't. Sold it. Bought a Kimber ultra carry CDP II, did a trigger job on it and have run probably a thousand rounds through it without a hiccup. Take it on trips for concealed carry.

I currently own maybe a dozen 1911s. WWI, WWII colts, DGFM colt, Springfields, Kimber, recent bought a Scandium frame S&W 4.25" I like a LOT and would trust with my life. I've owned many more, tinker with them, fitting barrels, trigger jobs, and more as a hobby.

One Springfield 1911A1 in Stainless I set up for steel/bowling pin shoots about fifteen years ago and lost track of how many rounds I've run through it, maybe ten thousand or more. I replace springs every 1000 rounds (recoil, firing pin), clean and lube the gun regularly and it keeps chugging along.

For the price you quoted there's a LOT out there to choose from.

Good luck, have fun.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

I own 3 1911s and am happy with them all. For carry I have the Wilson Combat CQB compact. It is the commander's barrel on the officer's frame. To me that is the best of both worlds, smaller to carry but still reliable. You can pick them up used for a decent price. It has been totally reliable and I do trust it with my life.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Dan Wesson CBOBs have a good track record for something shorter/ccw, for a compromise.

for the price. FS would be a TRP, used WC or Les Baer, RRA would be nice if you can find one, or a Yo-Bo 1* 'if you feel lucky'

Springfield CShop has a huge rep. for being stellar, so later upgrades are a call away with the TRP if needed.

My WC CQB FS, had consistent issues, CS turned out to be worthless and less than professional, and will not buy another 1911 from them....
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I currently carry a G22 (big gun, I know). I love it, 40s&w is a great round in my opinion and the high capacity is great. Anyway, I've been considering a 1911. I know full size is going to be the best route but I like the idea of a subcompact 1911 like the kimber ultra cdp 2. My question is, are they really as unreliable as people make them seem to be?

Part two, for around 1500, what can be had with a proven track record? </div></div>

I have a buddy that has the Kimber Ultra CDP and has never had a single issue. Yet another friend has several. Remember production guns are assymbled and sent out the door. Some good some not so good.
When it comes to the 1911 the gov't size is the proven workhorse. Does it take a little more effort to run sure. But there is no other gun (IMO) that can give you the same feel as a 1911. Of course this is in 45acp. I personally hate 40, so if you choose to shoot 9 I tell people to get a G17. It is the only other platform that has been proven. Again IMO.
Now which production pistol can you get for less than 1500 that is the most for your money........IMO, the TRP is hard to beat...I just hate the locking BS mainspring.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

All I carry is 1911s for personal protection. But I won't carry anything less than a 4" barrel 1911. There's just too many issues with the 3" guns for me to depend on them for my safety.

I owned a Kimber Pro Carry II and to date it's the most accurate 1911 that I've owned. If I did my part it would put 5 shots into a clover leaf at 21'. I was never good enough to get all 8 shots into a clover leaf. It would eat any type of ammo that I fed it except for some 185gr JHPs that I bought at a gun show. But that's the only ammo that I found that it wouldn't feed reliably.

I own a STI Ranger II that is very close to the Kimber in accuracy. It's all steel and was my EDC for the last 4 years until 3 weeks ago. It is picky about the JHPs that it will feed reliably. But Winchester Ranger ammo works ok in it. I carried it for the last four years but I have a very bad back and it was giving my back fits.

So I just bought a Colt LW Commander 3 weeks ago which is now my EDC. It weighs 11oz less than the Ranger II when fully loaded. It will eat anything I feed it, including the 185 JHPs that none of my other 1911s will work with. It had a terrible trigger pull out of the box. It ran 6.5 to 8.5lbs and wasn't consistent. One trigger pull would be 6lbs an the next might be 7.5 or 8lbs. I just put a Cylinder & Slide Tactical II 4lb trigger kit in it and took it to the range today. Works great now with a trigger pull right at 4lbs + or - 2 or 3oz.

1911s can be picky about what JHPs they will feed reliably. But you just need to find out what works in your gun the best. Magazines can also be an issue. Some of my 1911s like Wilson 47Ds, some like CM mags, and one likes Tripp Cobra mags. Once you get them figured out I don't find them any more unreliable than any other semi auto. It just takes a little experimentation to find out what your gun likes the best. Some people just don't have the patience to do what's necessary to make them work ok.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Dont rule out Sig 1911. They are a great out of the box gun. I've owned a Springfield Champion ant it was a great gun for the money. Moving up to a better suppressable option, I enjoy my Sig. The trigger is butter smooth and it cycles whatever I feed it. Stock with night sites. Great bang for the buck. No problems what so ever. The only downside is the older models with the square slide are hard to find holsters for.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Me and a friend took out a Springfield Range Officer and ran about 250 rnds through it out of the box with zero issues. and several times sense, with no problems its between 900.00 and a 1000.00 for the money and accuracy I felt it was a good buy.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"1911's as unreliable as people make them to be"

cuz a unreliable gun would still be around.... you guys crack me up. </div></div>

Yeah never heard of this before either? I think what the op means is with more and more 1911s coming out with mim parts, reliability has come up with the cheap ones like taurus etc.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

I too shake my head in wonder every time I read about unreliable 1911's. All of mine have been great and I still have every one of them.

My nephew is getting ready to buy a new one. He's looking at Springfields and Rugers in stainless steel. Maybe it will be unreliable and I'll get to see one of those 1911's that don't work.

I'd also recommend sticking to the full size or at least no smaller than the Combat Commander size guns.

Even the OLD 1911A1's we had in the Company Armory back in the late 70's that rattled like a can of nuts and bolts would still knock down the pop ups at 50 meters, all day long when I did my part. I've seen some 1911's not as accurate as other 1911's but I haven't see a Glock or XDM as accurate as the 1911's I've bought. When we're out shooting the new pistols and I get depressed and start thinking I've lost my touch I get one of the 1911's out put the smile back on my face.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Sig makes a great 1911 for the money. My EDC is a Sig 1911 compact and I also have a Tac Ops 1911 with a threaded barrel for my supressor host. Both have been flawless so far. They have a lot of great features and fit/finish are excellent.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

An easy solution to the defensive ammo problem is hornady's critical defense line. I absolutely love them. Every expansion test I've done they are always consistent with expansion and penetration.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

Not saying the TRP isn't a nice gun, but for the price I would safe up a few hundred more and get a Les Baer Concept 1911.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

I carried a Kimber Ultra Carry for 2 years and I absolutely loved it. It functioned flawlessly and was very easy to conceal. Wish would have never sold it.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

+1 on the Sig 1911. For an out of the box 1911 under a $1000 it is top of the line. Handles and shoots like a custom gun. Very accurate and Best factory trigger I have felt.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I currently carry a G22 (big gun, I know). I love it, 40s&w is a great round in my opinion and the high capacity is great. Anyway, I've been considering a 1911. I know full size is going to be the best route but I like the idea of a subcompact 1911 like the kimber ultra cdp 2. My question is, are they really as unreliable as people make them seem to be?

Part two, for around 1500, what can be had with a proven track record? </div></div>

I've seen my fair share of Kimber II base guns with rusty barrels. That being said, I bought my wife a Kimber ultra raptor II but checked it out first. I'd rather have the Dan Wesson ECO, but it wasn't out yet and still hard to find.

3" can be very reliable with ball ammo and good mags, better yet tripp research mags. 1st range trip was 250 rounds or so with no hiccups. Not quite as accurate as my 4", but way way better than poly guns.

No +p though on aluminum frames, but conceals great and lightweight.

Don't believe all the Kimber haters, just look it over real good before buying, and shoot the crap out of it before the first year is up. They usually stand behind their product after the one year warranty if you are not a dick.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm really liking the idea of a super small 1911 packing that .45acp power. </div></div>

In principle, yea, awesome; in reality, they suck. Hard.

As 03 said, the smaller the barrel gets, the more complicated the physics becomes. If what you want is a really compact gun, get a Kahr PM40 and be done. If you want a 1911, forget the compact and get a Commander and a good holster. </div></div>

Do you have one or are your regurgitating internet hype? My wife is 5'2" and never had a fte/ftf from limpwristing her Kimber ultra raptor II. No issues once I replaced a couple mag springs in some very old mags with tripp research springs.

I trust my life and my wife's life with this 3" 1911, as it is 100% reliable with good mags and ball ammo.
 
Re: for the 1911 guys

you need to put it in your hands and see which you like better...if all else fails buy a full sized and a compact
 
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