Re: For the new guys
Craig: you have a P.M.
Craig: you have a P.M.
Re: For the new guys
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by J.Boyette:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> But what I learned, will help me alot. I was doing real stuped stuff like:
1. Not going back to ZERO after each engagement.
2. Not trusting my gut on wind calls.
<span style="font-style: italic">3. Turning my windage knob the wrong way.</span>
4. Spoting only my Shooting partner, instead of watching every one else shoot and learn from them.
</span></div></div>Good points and the one I put in italics is the best although not for the reason you stated. You really shouldn't be turning the windage knob at all. Mil holds for wind are faster and accurate enough and you won't forget to take it off your scope
Also you said that you used a 300 yard zero. Do you actually zero your scope on your 300 yard zero or just leave the dial at your 300yard dope?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by J.Boyette:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> But what I learned, will help me alot. I was doing real stuped stuff like:
1. Not going back to ZERO after each engagement.
2. Not trusting my gut on wind calls.
<span style="font-style: italic">3. Turning my windage knob the wrong way.</span>
4. Spoting only my Shooting partner, instead of watching every one else shoot and learn from them.
</span></div></div>Good points and the one I put in italics is the best although not for the reason you stated. You really shouldn't be turning the windage knob at all. Mil holds for wind are faster and accurate enough and you won't forget to take it off your scope
Also you said that you used a 300 yard zero. Do you actually zero your scope on your 300 yard zero or just leave the dial at your 300yard dope?
Re: For the new guys
Rob01,
The optic is at 0-0 reading and that is 300yd POA/POI. This gives me Mil holds from 25yds to 600yds on the same reticle plane.
I like a 300YD ZERO because the Point blank ZERO works from 50yds to 425yds. Meaning that if its a E-Type <span style="font-weight: bold">(Target 36" tall)</span> I hold Center Mass and knock it down
Same Plan of Action with the M-16/M-4 25M / 300M train of thought. I talked to some Snipers from past wars and thats what they used. So I tryed it and like it alot better. my 100yd ZERO reads -13.25 MOA and 200yd ZERO is a -14.5 below ZERO.
John
Rob01,
The optic is at 0-0 reading and that is 300yd POA/POI. This gives me Mil holds from 25yds to 600yds on the same reticle plane.
I like a 300YD ZERO because the Point blank ZERO works from 50yds to 425yds. Meaning that if its a E-Type <span style="font-weight: bold">(Target 36" tall)</span> I hold Center Mass and knock it down
Same Plan of Action with the M-16/M-4 25M / 300M train of thought. I talked to some Snipers from past wars and thats what they used. So I tryed it and like it alot better. my 100yd ZERO reads -13.25 MOA and 200yd ZERO is a -14.5 below ZERO.
John
Re: For the new guys
Sounds like a good way John. Being able to use mil holds for elevation adjustments is a good practice. That's why I'm glad Rod and John had the Got Dots stage. Doing it adds confidence in being able to do it when you need it.
Sounds like a good way John. Being able to use mil holds for elevation adjustments is a good practice. That's why I'm glad Rod and John had the Got Dots stage. Doing it adds confidence in being able to do it when you need it.
Re: For the new guys
When using my Leupold 6.5-20X50M1 with a Gen II reticle in it, if I put my 600 yard elevation on the scope, I can shoot from 100 to 900 yards using the mildots. That's a nice capability to have.
When using my Leupold 6.5-20X50M1 with a Gen II reticle in it, if I put my 600 yard elevation on the scope, I can shoot from 100 to 900 yards using the mildots. That's a nice capability to have.
Re: For the new guys
Lindy,
I use the 600yd ZERO for as you posted. I have two Mil-Holds in my Data book. One is at ZERO and the other is the 600yd ZERO. That way depending on what I need. I can dial it in and have fun.
John
Lindy,
I use the 600yd ZERO for as you posted. I have two Mil-Holds in my Data book. One is at ZERO and the other is the 600yd ZERO. That way depending on what I need. I can dial it in and have fun.
John
Re: For the new guys
I'll chip in, not as a "Me too..." but I crunched the numbers prior to printing my dope cards for ASC#4 and I came up w/ 675yds for my best zero to do "Dots" with. 175gr SMK, 2750fps at 70* 70% Humidity gets me 4.7 mils hold under at 100yds and 4.4 mils hold over at 1K. I did use it to good effect on the "Got Dot's" stage. I did miss twice but that was due to the dope behind the trigger not the dope on the cards/rifle.
Kind of a weird yard line number but the dial on was 16.5 MOA up or 1 and 1.5 (1 Rev + MOA) up. These numbers are rough but when holding, moving and shooting fast they work.
100 = ~4.5 HU
200 = ~4.0 HU
300 = ~3.5 HU
400 = ~2.5 HU
500 = ~2.0 HU
600 = ~1.0 HU
700 = ~0
750 = ~1.0 HO
800 = ~1.5 HO
850 = ~2.0 HO
900 = ~3.0 HO
950 = ~3.5 HO
1K = ~4.5 HO
I could stretch a 5 Mil hold to about 1060 yds or so.
Each rifle and ammo as well as variations in atmospherics will produce different #'s for you. Play with the numbers pick the one that most closely approximates your "Normal" shooting conditions. If I HAD to memorize a set of #'s it would be these.
Cheers :beer:
I'll chip in, not as a "Me too..." but I crunched the numbers prior to printing my dope cards for ASC#4 and I came up w/ 675yds for my best zero to do "Dots" with. 175gr SMK, 2750fps at 70* 70% Humidity gets me 4.7 mils hold under at 100yds and 4.4 mils hold over at 1K. I did use it to good effect on the "Got Dot's" stage. I did miss twice but that was due to the dope behind the trigger not the dope on the cards/rifle.
Kind of a weird yard line number but the dial on was 16.5 MOA up or 1 and 1.5 (1 Rev + MOA) up. These numbers are rough but when holding, moving and shooting fast they work.
100 = ~4.5 HU
200 = ~4.0 HU
300 = ~3.5 HU
400 = ~2.5 HU
500 = ~2.0 HU
600 = ~1.0 HU
700 = ~0
750 = ~1.0 HO
800 = ~1.5 HO
850 = ~2.0 HO
900 = ~3.0 HO
950 = ~3.5 HO
1K = ~4.5 HO
I could stretch a 5 Mil hold to about 1060 yds or so.
Each rifle and ammo as well as variations in atmospherics will produce different #'s for you. Play with the numbers pick the one that most closely approximates your "Normal" shooting conditions. If I HAD to memorize a set of #'s it would be these.
Cheers :beer:
Re: For the new guys
Doc: memorizing a set of those holdoffs for the conditions you shoot most often in is a very useful thing to do. Memorizing the ones for inside 700 yards is probably all you really need, as outside that range, temperature and atmospheric pressure variations may require more precision.
I wrote mine on a card, and taped them to the dashboard of my car until I had them memorized.
Doc: memorizing a set of those holdoffs for the conditions you shoot most often in is a very useful thing to do. Memorizing the ones for inside 700 yards is probably all you really need, as outside that range, temperature and atmospheric pressure variations may require more precision.
I wrote mine on a card, and taped them to the dashboard of my car until I had them memorized.
Re: For the new guys
Lindy,
Your absolutly correct. Out past 600 yds .1 mil begins to make a BIG difference as far as hold overs go on a target say 33" tall
. My intention for those numbers was to gain the most amount of available "dot holds" for a single elevation adjustment out to 1K but not cutting my throat at 50yds. I also had those numbers figured out for 4 different tempurature variations (30*, 50*, 70* and 90*F)and caliberated to 3500 ft in elevation. Humidity and Barometric Pressure variables I found to make a very SMALL difference.
Not having ever been to ASC, I took the worst case "I" could think of, and applied it. I didn't find it unreasonable to be tasked w/ a numbered target engagement at say 50 yds on the first shot and 850 yds for #2 and then 400 yds and so on bouncing back and forth. I guess I just think like a bigger prick than Rod or John (I hope they don't read this and get any ideas
)
Cheers :beer:
Lindy,
Your absolutly correct. Out past 600 yds .1 mil begins to make a BIG difference as far as hold overs go on a target say 33" tall
Not having ever been to ASC, I took the worst case "I" could think of, and applied it. I didn't find it unreasonable to be tasked w/ a numbered target engagement at say 50 yds on the first shot and 850 yds for #2 and then 400 yds and so on bouncing back and forth. I guess I just think like a bigger prick than Rod or John (I hope they don't read this and get any ideas
)Cheers :beer:
Re: For the new guys
Since we are on the topic of mil holds, this is how it is done and what it looks like:
The simple math:
MOA data / 3.438 = mil hold over/under
This is how you do it in steps:
1. Shoot your dope to ranges you will use your Savage at. Record your dope in MOA.
2. Pick a range as the set constant on the scope.
3. follow this conversion to get hold unders.
4. Follow this conversion th get hold overs
Ok this is what my Savage 10 FLP in .308 win shoots in MOA
Step 1.
100yds ZERO
150yds .75 MOA
200yds 1.75 MOA
250yds 3.50 MOA
300yds 4.25 MOA
350yds 5.75 MOA
400yds 7.25 MOA
450yds 8.50 MOA
500yds 10.75 MOA
550yds 12.25 MOA
600yds 14.00 MOA
700yds 18.00MOA
Step 2.
I am going to use 500yds as my set constant on the scope.
Step 3.
500yd MOA - 450yd MOA = MOA between 500 yds and 450yds / 3.438 = Mil-dot hold under
10.75- 8.50= 2.25 MOA
2.25MOA / 3.438= .65 Mil-dot Hold under
So if I want to shoot the 450yd target with 500yds dialed in the scope. All I need to do is hold .65 mills under and I will hit the 450yd target.
Step 4.
550yd MOA - 500yd MOA = MOA between 550 yds and 500yds / 3.438 = Mil-dot hold over
12.25 - 10.75 = 1.5 MOA
1.5MOA / 3.438 = .43 Mil-dot hold over
This is how the rest of my dope looks.
100yds ZERO 3.12 mil hold under
150yds .75 MOA 2.9 mil hold under
200yds 1.75 MOA 2.6 mil hold under
250yds 3.50 MOA 2.1 mil hold under
300yds 4.25 MOA 2.00 mil hold under
350yds 5.75 MOA 1.50 mil hold under
400yds 7.25 MOA 1.0 mil hold under
450yds 8.50 MOA .65 mil hold under
500yds 10.75 MOA Point of aim, point of impact
550yds 12.25 MOA .43 mil hold over
600yds 14.00 MOA .94 mil hold over
700yds 18.00MOA 2.1 mil hold over
Now to make shore we all are on the same sheet here this is what my hold overs/ unders look like as to the chart above:
My Old Super Sniper 10x42M
My hold unders/overs with Mil-dot
Since we are on the topic of mil holds, this is how it is done and what it looks like:
The simple math:
MOA data / 3.438 = mil hold over/under
This is how you do it in steps:
1. Shoot your dope to ranges you will use your Savage at. Record your dope in MOA.
2. Pick a range as the set constant on the scope.
3. follow this conversion to get hold unders.
4. Follow this conversion th get hold overs
Ok this is what my Savage 10 FLP in .308 win shoots in MOA
Step 1.
100yds ZERO
150yds .75 MOA
200yds 1.75 MOA
250yds 3.50 MOA
300yds 4.25 MOA
350yds 5.75 MOA
400yds 7.25 MOA
450yds 8.50 MOA
500yds 10.75 MOA
550yds 12.25 MOA
600yds 14.00 MOA
700yds 18.00MOA
Step 2.
I am going to use 500yds as my set constant on the scope.
Step 3.
500yd MOA - 450yd MOA = MOA between 500 yds and 450yds / 3.438 = Mil-dot hold under
10.75- 8.50= 2.25 MOA
2.25MOA / 3.438= .65 Mil-dot Hold under
So if I want to shoot the 450yd target with 500yds dialed in the scope. All I need to do is hold .65 mills under and I will hit the 450yd target.
Step 4.
550yd MOA - 500yd MOA = MOA between 550 yds and 500yds / 3.438 = Mil-dot hold over
12.25 - 10.75 = 1.5 MOA
1.5MOA / 3.438 = .43 Mil-dot hold over
This is how the rest of my dope looks.
100yds ZERO 3.12 mil hold under
150yds .75 MOA 2.9 mil hold under
200yds 1.75 MOA 2.6 mil hold under
250yds 3.50 MOA 2.1 mil hold under
300yds 4.25 MOA 2.00 mil hold under
350yds 5.75 MOA 1.50 mil hold under
400yds 7.25 MOA 1.0 mil hold under
450yds 8.50 MOA .65 mil hold under
500yds 10.75 MOA Point of aim, point of impact
550yds 12.25 MOA .43 mil hold over
600yds 14.00 MOA .94 mil hold over
700yds 18.00MOA 2.1 mil hold over
Now to make shore we all are on the same sheet here this is what my hold overs/ unders look like as to the chart above:
My Old Super Sniper 10x42M
My hold unders/overs with Mil-dot
G
Guest
Guest
Re: For the new guys
The most important thing is. UNASS the lazy-boy and go shoot at matches. That way you can met other shooters and learn more. Sitting on your home 100 yard range shooting one hole groups. Is not the way to get better.
The most important thing is. UNASS the lazy-boy and go shoot at matches. That way you can met other shooters and learn more. Sitting on your home 100 yard range shooting one hole groups. Is not the way to get better.
Re: For the new guys
Whew...!!!
There's a lot of stuff building up on here fast. Most all of it is good sound advice.
I would like to inject one thought. Especially for newer generation reloaders.
Buy a copy of Lyman's reloading handbook. Use the other's for particular powder & bullet combinations. But the Lyman's Handbook has a lot of practical information on other than bullet and powder combinations. Look at the front of the book. Then look again at the first few pages of each chapter. Especially look under the general instructions sections. There is a lot of general precautions and information in this book that most of the others don't publish any more.
I have 4 different copies of it. But the most treasured and most used is a 45th edition, 1970's version that I have had rebound at a printer bindery.
With all gun matters, especially reloading, ask if you don't know. Someone on here will give you some sound advice. Maybe don't jump on the first answer unless you know the person. But I'm sure that in a day or two someone else will comment if it doesn't sound right.
Some things to remember about reloading is to always be careful. Don't deviate from an experienced load unlesss you are sure of what you are doing. While it's a mind / stress relieving thing to do for most of us, keep your mind on what you are doing. Don't let your mind wander while doing delicate operations. "Be here now" as an old instructor used to tell me. And if you are using an auto / semi auto rifle get a SAAMI cartridge guage to check your final product to make sure it will chamber OK. Dillon carries some, Brownell's is another source. And I'm sure there are a lot of other good sources out there. If you are using a bolt gun remove the firing pin from the bolt and check the chambering of a few loaded rounds. If you use the bolt for a bolt gun remember that the cartridges and chamber will be different at temperature extremes. If you set your die to be just snug at 40 degrees F the bolt will fall with no resistance in the 100+ F of late summer. This will mean over working the brass, if you use the same 100 to 200 rounds all the time. Before I found the chamber guages I used to remove the barrel from my 1911 45 ACP match and use the barrel to make sure the rounds fit OK. It had the tighest chamber of the 3 pistols I was shooting.
The main thing about reloading is to be careful. Next is to have fun making and shooting it.
Hope this isn't too far of the intended course of this thread. :beer:
Whew...!!!
There's a lot of stuff building up on here fast. Most all of it is good sound advice.
I would like to inject one thought. Especially for newer generation reloaders.
Buy a copy of Lyman's reloading handbook. Use the other's for particular powder & bullet combinations. But the Lyman's Handbook has a lot of practical information on other than bullet and powder combinations. Look at the front of the book. Then look again at the first few pages of each chapter. Especially look under the general instructions sections. There is a lot of general precautions and information in this book that most of the others don't publish any more.
I have 4 different copies of it. But the most treasured and most used is a 45th edition, 1970's version that I have had rebound at a printer bindery.
With all gun matters, especially reloading, ask if you don't know. Someone on here will give you some sound advice. Maybe don't jump on the first answer unless you know the person. But I'm sure that in a day or two someone else will comment if it doesn't sound right.
Some things to remember about reloading is to always be careful. Don't deviate from an experienced load unlesss you are sure of what you are doing. While it's a mind / stress relieving thing to do for most of us, keep your mind on what you are doing. Don't let your mind wander while doing delicate operations. "Be here now" as an old instructor used to tell me. And if you are using an auto / semi auto rifle get a SAAMI cartridge guage to check your final product to make sure it will chamber OK. Dillon carries some, Brownell's is another source. And I'm sure there are a lot of other good sources out there. If you are using a bolt gun remove the firing pin from the bolt and check the chambering of a few loaded rounds. If you use the bolt for a bolt gun remember that the cartridges and chamber will be different at temperature extremes. If you set your die to be just snug at 40 degrees F the bolt will fall with no resistance in the 100+ F of late summer. This will mean over working the brass, if you use the same 100 to 200 rounds all the time. Before I found the chamber guages I used to remove the barrel from my 1911 45 ACP match and use the barrel to make sure the rounds fit OK. It had the tighest chamber of the 3 pistols I was shooting.
The main thing about reloading is to be careful.
Hope this isn't too far of the intended course of this thread. :beer:
Re: For the new guys
It's been said before...I'll say it again...WOW THIS IS SOME GREAT INFORMATION!!!!!!!!! Thanks guys for taking the time to help me shorten my learning curve.
It's been said before...I'll say it again...WOW THIS IS SOME GREAT INFORMATION!!!!!!!!! Thanks guys for taking the time to help me shorten my learning curve.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: For the new guys
Things to do BEFORE a training day at the range.
CHECK your gear. No well I torqued it last time or when ever. JUST DO IT. Check ALL gear, if it uses batteries have spares. If you have to make a packing list of gear to take and check it off as it is packed. Paint over screws, or be ready to recheck at breaks.
Ammo have all the same lot#. If hand loads check them against a known good batch.
Bring any tools you might need for minor repairs.
Be prepared for any weather.
Have note taking material.
Log ALL changes in conditions. What the change was and how it effected your shots.
Things to do BEFORE a training day at the range.
CHECK your gear. No well I torqued it last time or when ever. JUST DO IT. Check ALL gear, if it uses batteries have spares. If you have to make a packing list of gear to take and check it off as it is packed. Paint over screws, or be ready to recheck at breaks.
Ammo have all the same lot#. If hand loads check them against a known good batch.
Bring any tools you might need for minor repairs.
Be prepared for any weather.
Have note taking material.
Log ALL changes in conditions. What the change was and how it effected your shots.
Re: For the new guys
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by L.London:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Things to do BEFORE a training day at the range.
CHECK your gear. No well I torqued it last time or when ever. JUST DO IT. Check ALL gear, if it uses batteries have spares. If you have to make a packing list of gear to take and check it off as it is packed. Paint over screws, or be ready to recheck at breaks.
Ammo have all the same lot#. If hand loads check them against a known good batch.
Bring any tools you might need for minor repairs.
Be prepared for any weather.
Have note taking material.
Log ALL changes in conditions. What the change was and how it effected your shots. </span></div></div>Good advice guys. L. London knows his stuff and picks up on the minor details/flaws that will cause a miss. Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by L.London:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Things to do BEFORE a training day at the range.
CHECK your gear. No well I torqued it last time or when ever. JUST DO IT. Check ALL gear, if it uses batteries have spares. If you have to make a packing list of gear to take and check it off as it is packed. Paint over screws, or be ready to recheck at breaks.
Ammo have all the same lot#. If hand loads check them against a known good batch.
Bring any tools you might need for minor repairs.
Be prepared for any weather.
Have note taking material.
Log ALL changes in conditions. What the change was and how it effected your shots. </span></div></div>Good advice guys. L. London knows his stuff and picks up on the minor details/flaws that will cause a miss. Thanks
Re: For the new guys
+1 to L.L's post, I'll add a little more on the bring tools part.
If your going to have a backup scope in your bag you need to have a method to get the old one off and to put the new one on. If you have good rings you "should" be able to re-tourqe the bolts to the correct setting and be on. This needs to be practiced several times BEFORE you go to a competition. Ensure your scope is set to zero or that you know what to do with it to get it that way when you put it on.
Scope Cap Wrenches - If your scope caps are held on by allen/torx wrenches make sure you have one to fit. If your scope takes a hit and looses it's zero. It would be nice, once you gut your way through zeroing it under competition, to zero your knobs. Less mental floss to run through under pressure later in the day.
Witness marks on your reciever bolts as Lindsey mentioned are a bonus. Having a method to put them back to spec is also a bonus, ie: the right bit and adaptor for the tourqe wrench that you are carrying for the potential scope swap.
Basicly if it's adjustable and requires a tool to do it you should bring said device. Fortunately most adjustable things on a rifle use allen/torx wrenches which are small and fit inside the stock pack . The tourqe wrench and B/U scope will be in your backpack.
On another topic:
If you back through this thread and many of the other competition threads you will alway read "I left my dope from the previous shot on". In my case "I didn't notice that I had bumped the knobs while humping". Practice at your local range a "pre-first shot check list". This is what you do every time you decide you are going to shoot.
Here's mine
Over all weapon inspection: A quick look for anything out of place.
Elevation Knob: Zero
Windage knob: Zero
Paralax Set: Infinity
Obviously I failed my own check list twice.
but I didn't start practicing this till I was at the comp. Good idea, too late, no practice. Do in practice and you will do in comp, both good and bad.
.02 more
Cheers :beer:
+1 to L.L's post, I'll add a little more on the bring tools part.
If your going to have a backup scope in your bag you need to have a method to get the old one off and to put the new one on. If you have good rings you "should" be able to re-tourqe the bolts to the correct setting and be on. This needs to be practiced several times BEFORE you go to a competition. Ensure your scope is set to zero or that you know what to do with it to get it that way when you put it on.
Scope Cap Wrenches - If your scope caps are held on by allen/torx wrenches make sure you have one to fit. If your scope takes a hit and looses it's zero. It would be nice, once you gut your way through zeroing it under competition, to zero your knobs. Less mental floss to run through under pressure later in the day.
Witness marks on your reciever bolts as Lindsey mentioned are a bonus. Having a method to put them back to spec is also a bonus, ie: the right bit and adaptor for the tourqe wrench that you are carrying for the potential scope swap.
Basicly if it's adjustable and requires a tool to do it you should bring said device. Fortunately most adjustable things on a rifle use allen/torx wrenches which are small and fit inside the stock pack
. The tourqe wrench and B/U scope will be in your backpack.On another topic:
If you back through this thread and many of the other competition threads you will alway read "I left my dope from the previous shot on". In my case "I didn't notice that I had bumped the knobs while humping". Practice at your local range a "pre-first shot check list". This is what you do every time you decide you are going to shoot.
Here's mine
Over all weapon inspection: A quick look for anything out of place.
Elevation Knob: Zero
Windage knob: Zero
Paralax Set: Infinity
Obviously I failed my own check list twice.
.02 more
Cheers :beer:
G
Guest
Guest
Re: For the new guys
Cheeks, Thanks
I was just a student all weekend.
You did some nice shooting at 1K.
.5MOA,.75MOA,1.5 MOA. Write it down.
Know what zero for your scope is. Have that written down in your log book. If you have a back up scope have the zeros for it also.
My zero for the NF on the AR10 is 47MOA from the bottom 27MOA from left. That way when you get lost. You can find yourself.
Cheeks, Thanks
I was just a student all weekend.
You did some nice shooting at 1K.
.5MOA,.75MOA,1.5 MOA. Write it down.
Know what zero for your scope is. Have that written down in your log book. If you have a back up scope have the zeros for it also.
My zero for the NF on the AR10 is 47MOA from the bottom 27MOA from left. That way when you get lost. You can find yourself.
Re: For the new guys
With the Zero setting thing, What I do is, I draw a pic of my turrets. On Leupolds they have the 0---- and then a -----1 and so on.
These markings are on the Turret stem thing. So as I go up in MOA I see more lines and numbers
When I am at my Zero I can only see the 0---- and -----1. If I see a 2----- then I am 15 MOA off on my elevation
John
With the Zero setting thing, What I do is, I draw a pic of my turrets. On Leupolds they have the 0---- and then a -----1 and so on.
These markings are on the Turret stem thing. So as I go up in MOA I see more lines and numbers
When I am at my Zero I can only see the 0---- and -----1. If I see a 2----- then I am 15 MOA off on my elevation
John
Re: For the new guys
Rob 01 was discussing how he does his turrets while we were on the mountian at ASC. He uses a black sharpie to color in the exposed white lines on the turret. This way if you see white your a Rev UP and it only takes a couple of clicks to see the white under the zero so you can check very quickly if you are on zero. I think it was a top notch idea. I have a piece of typewriter correction tape under the turret on my Xotic that rests right under the zero line on both windage and elevation. If the knob is just touching the tape and zero line I'm at my 100 yd zero. Works for me.
Cheers :beer:
Rob 01 was discussing how he does his turrets while we were on the mountian at ASC. He uses a black sharpie to color in the exposed white lines on the turret. This way if you see white your a Rev UP and it only takes a couple of clicks to see the white under the zero so you can check very quickly if you are on zero. I think it was a top notch idea. I have a piece of typewriter correction tape under the turret on my Xotic that rests right under the zero line on both windage and elevation. If the knob is just touching the tape and zero line I'm at my 100 yd zero. Works for me.
Cheers :beer:
Re: For the new guys
DAMMIT!!! I wish I would of read DOC's last post before last Sundays match. I did everything a rookie could of done wrong in the matter of 5 stages. From 800 yards back and my unknown distance stages it was all one big cluster f*#K.
Forgot what my left and right was. Wind blowing LEFT to RIGHT. Dialed in RIGHT windage..only took me about 40 inches off target.
After missing all my 1K shots due to the wrong windage. I FORGOT to dial back down to 600 for our head shots. NICE......
Then when I dialed down,,I forgot what REV I was on. Took about 2 stages to get back on 0. It was so bad I had to laugh.
I am going to do that sharpie thing as soon as I get home. Good info old guys, keep it coming. =)
DAMMIT!!! I wish I would of read DOC's last post before last Sundays match. I did everything a rookie could of done wrong in the matter of 5 stages. From 800 yards back and my unknown distance stages it was all one big cluster f*#K.
Forgot what my left and right was. Wind blowing LEFT to RIGHT. Dialed in RIGHT windage..only took me about 40 inches off target.
After missing all my 1K shots due to the wrong windage. I FORGOT to dial back down to 600 for our head shots. NICE......
Then when I dialed down,,I forgot what REV I was on. Took about 2 stages to get back on 0. It was so bad I had to laugh.
I am going to do that sharpie thing as soon as I get home. Good info old guys, keep it coming. =)
Re: For the new guys
Thanks for all the tips you experienced shooters, saves us noobs from posting all over the place with questions we dont even know how to ask. This thread is sweet keep it coming plz.
Thanks for all the tips you experienced shooters, saves us noobs from posting all over the place with questions we dont even know how to ask. This thread is sweet keep it coming plz.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: For the new guys
Well after reading more than a few did I screw it up post lately.
If you have the urge to do home gunsmithing. Ask <span style="font-weight: bold">BEFORE</span> you do any work.
Well after reading more than a few did I screw it up post lately.
If you have the urge to do home gunsmithing. Ask <span style="font-weight: bold">BEFORE</span> you do any work.
Re: For the new guys
Thanks again everyone, I totally agree with woodspider. I have learned a ton off this thread alone. Keep it up!
Thanks again everyone, I totally agree with woodspider. I have learned a ton off this thread alone. Keep it up!
Re: For the new guys
I am planing to take the PR coure at rifles only.I was wondering if my Winchester 7mm mag is a good rifle for the course. I am new to this and there is alot of information to absorb. Could somebody help?
I am planing to take the PR coure at rifles only.I was wondering if my Winchester 7mm mag is a good rifle for the course. I am new to this and there is alot of information to absorb. Could somebody help?
Re: For the new guys
Shark,
Welcome to the Hide. What kind of info are you looking for and what kind of experience do you have? 7mmRemMag, on what platform, scope? Give us some intel and we'll be glad to get you going.
Cheers :beer:
Shark,
Welcome to the Hide. What kind of info are you looking for and what kind of experience do you have? 7mmRemMag, on what platform, scope? Give us some intel and we'll be glad to get you going.
Cheers :beer:
Re: For the new guys
A .308 would be a much better learning tool, for a variety of reasons. If you go to Rifles Only, you're going to shoot a lot of rounds. The recoil on a magnum, even if it has a muzzle brake, is something it would be better not to deal with for 150 rounds or more <span style="font-weight: bold">per day</span>.
Not only does it make fast follow-up shots more difficult, but it will just make you sore, and may lead to flinching.
If you doubt that, go out and shoot 150 rounds through your rifle in one day. Then get up the next day, feel your shoulder, and think what it would have to be like to have to do that again. And again.
Another factor is barrel life. The quantity of ammo you'll go through in a week in a magnum is a significant portion of its barrel life. It's not even a dent in the lifetime of a .308.
Ammunition for a .308 will be cheaper, and you probably want to buy commercial ammunition for the quantity that you will need.
I've seen some people go through a Rifles Only Precision Rifle course or a trainup with magnums. Virtually all agreed afterward that they'd have been better off with a .308. And every tactical marksman ought to own one good .308 anyway.
A .308 would be a much better learning tool, for a variety of reasons. If you go to Rifles Only, you're going to shoot a lot of rounds. The recoil on a magnum, even if it has a muzzle brake, is something it would be better not to deal with for 150 rounds or more <span style="font-weight: bold">per day</span>.
Not only does it make fast follow-up shots more difficult, but it will just make you sore, and may lead to flinching.
If you doubt that, go out and shoot 150 rounds through your rifle in one day. Then get up the next day, feel your shoulder, and think what it would have to be like to have to do that again. And again.
Another factor is barrel life. The quantity of ammo you'll go through in a week in a magnum is a significant portion of its barrel life. It's not even a dent in the lifetime of a .308.
Ammunition for a .308 will be cheaper, and you probably want to buy commercial ammunition for the quantity that you will need.
I've seen some people go through a Rifles Only Precision Rifle course or a trainup with magnums. Virtually all agreed afterward that they'd have been better off with a .308. And every tactical marksman ought to own one good .308 anyway.
Re: For the new guys
Thanks DOC, Lindy for the advice that you have given me. i am currently in Iraq working for a Private contractor. The SF guys that are statoined here have been taking me out and letting me shoot. i have really enjoyed doing that. I am going to be home for good in about 2 weeks. and would like to get into it a little more. Thank you again for your help. Thanx!!!!!
Thanks DOC, Lindy for the advice that you have given me. i am currently in Iraq working for a Private contractor. The SF guys that are statoined here have been taking me out and letting me shoot. i have really enjoyed doing that. I am going to be home for good in about 2 weeks. and would like to get into it a little more. Thank you again for your help. Thanx!!!!!
Re: For the new guys
Shark,
Stay safe for the last 2 weeks. Hopefully you've been collecting big paychecks
If I were sitting in that position and had the funds available to me I would buy a top line stick like "The Rock" from GA Precision. The reasons behind that would be
a) Outstanding stick and no worries about wether you have a good one or not.
b) You're probably already used to the feel of a similar platform.
c) As Lindy said 308 is cheaper to feed and eiser on the body than 7mm hence you will be more inclined to get practice.
d) Great resale value should you decide you don't want to play anymore.
Once you get it follow the break in istructions, and get some time behind the stick out as far as your local range will let you go. Then get some professional training or go to a competition. Quite a few folks from here live in TX so you should be able to link up with some one that can help you out localy.
Welcome home!
Cheers :beer:
Shark,
Stay safe for the last 2 weeks. Hopefully you've been collecting big paychecks
If I were sitting in that position and had the funds available to me I would buy a top line stick like "The Rock" from GA Precision. The reasons behind that would be
a) Outstanding stick and no worries about wether you have a good one or not.
b) You're probably already used to the feel of a similar platform.
c) As Lindy said 308 is cheaper to feed and eiser on the body than 7mm hence you will be more inclined to get practice.
d) Great resale value should you decide you don't want to play anymore.
Once you get it follow the break in istructions, and get some time behind the stick out as far as your local range will let you go. Then get some professional training or go to a competition. Quite a few folks from here live in TX so you should be able to link up with some one that can help you out localy.
Welcome home!
Cheers :beer:
Re: For the new guys
Thanks DOC for the advice. I will keep that in mind.
Thanks DOC for the advice. I will keep that in mind.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: For the new guys
DRY FIRE practice. Do it.
Spent 2 days shooting poorly. Less than a minute of dry firing pointed out what I was doing wrong.
DRY FIRE practice. Do it.
Spent 2 days shooting poorly. Less than a minute of dry firing pointed out what I was doing wrong.
Re: For the new guys
Lindsey - you have a P.M.
Shark - I think you mispelled "first" in your signature.
Lindsey - you have a P.M.
Shark - I think you mispelled "first" in your signature.
Re: For the new guys
Newbie here and have a question about scope reticles. The wife just bought a Remmy 700 LTR .308 for my B-day. I'm seriously considering an NXS 3.5-15x50. Should I get the MilDot or MLR? Looking to shoot out to 700 yds.
Thanks,
Sako
Newbie here and have a question about scope reticles. The wife just bought a Remmy 700 LTR .308 for my B-day. I'm seriously considering an NXS 3.5-15x50. Should I get the MilDot or MLR? Looking to shoot out to 700 yds.
Thanks,
Sako
G
Guest
Guest
Re: For the new guys
Welcome aboard.
I have 2 of the MD great reticle. The MLR should be easier to mill with. YOU need to look at it in all lighting. See how it looks/works for you.
Where are you at? Some one might have one you can try.
Welcome aboard.
I have 2 of the MD great reticle. The MLR should be easier to mill with. YOU need to look at it in all lighting. See how it looks/works for you.
Where are you at? Some one might have one you can try.
Re: For the new guys
Hi guys. I just registered, and man, am I overwhelmed. Fortunatley I have an excellent instructor. J.Boyette got me into this stuff, and its up to him to keep me straight.
As a long time CQB rifle, shotgun and tac pistol instructor, I had just about become bored with shooting. And like the song says, along comes John! Within minutes, he had me shooting head shots at 500 yards. Something I have NEVER done before.
Suddenly, shooting is a ball again. Its been a while since I have felt challenged. Its actually great to feel like a noob again. Nowhere to go but up.
Thanks for all the good info. See you guys around!
Hi guys. I just registered, and man, am I overwhelmed. Fortunatley I have an excellent instructor. J.Boyette got me into this stuff, and its up to him to keep me straight.
As a long time CQB rifle, shotgun and tac pistol instructor, I had just about become bored with shooting. And like the song says, along comes John! Within minutes, he had me shooting head shots at 500 yards. Something I have NEVER done before.
Suddenly, shooting is a ball again. Its been a while since I have felt challenged. Its actually great to feel like a noob again. Nowhere to go but up.
Thanks for all the good info. See you guys around!
Re: For the new guys
L.,
Home is Savannah, GA but I'm "on the road" a bunch like you. Just back. Will check with some folks I know here and see if any of them have one to look through.
Sako
L.,
Home is Savannah, GA but I'm "on the road" a bunch like you. Just back. Will check with some folks I know here and see if any of them have one to look through.
Sako
Re: For the new guys
i,m 35 have been shooting all my life in one way or another: for hunting for sport or in war (marine) without younger shooters intrist their is no future for the sport so i'm always willing to help with an idea, or a hard lesson learned from bad judjment. never give up... surender is only for the enemy keep the questions comeing.. remember luck is for the unskilled or untrained!!
i,m 35 have been shooting all my life in one way or another: for hunting for sport or in war (marine) without younger shooters intrist their is no future for the sport so i'm always willing to help with an idea, or a hard lesson learned from bad judjment. never give up... surender is only for the enemy keep the questions comeing.. remember luck is for the unskilled or untrained!!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: For the new guys
Z2
Did you get that scope mounted and zeroed?
Sako
Next time I come that way I'll bring a NF MD for you to eyeball.
Z2
Did you get that scope mounted and zeroed?
Sako
Next time I come that way I'll bring a NF MD for you to eyeball.
Re: For the new guys
L.,
Would definitely like to look through one. My contacts here in Savannah are gone for awhile. I should be around for a few months save for the occasional 3-5 day trip. Let me know when you're coming through.
Sako
L.,
Would definitely like to look through one. My contacts here in Savannah are gone for awhile. I should be around for a few months save for the occasional 3-5 day trip. Let me know when you're coming through.
Sako
Re: For the new guys
Guy,s I am new here.I feel like across the course high power and of course F- Class are a great and fun way to learn to read the wind. You will meet some hard shooters at these matches.
Guy,s I am new here.I feel like across the course high power and of course F- Class are a great and fun way to learn to read the wind. You will meet some hard shooters at these matches.
Re: For the new guys
Ok guys, Zoyter2 read this topic front and back, up and down. To day he and I went out to 1000yds with his bone stock rifle.
This is what I call a bone stock SWS.
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Savage 10FP in .308 win with factory stock
[*]Luppy dovetail 0 MOA base and Luppy Basic ring's[*]Harris 6-9 BRM-S bi-pod[*]168 FGMM[*]and a VARI-III 4.5-14 USMC dot scope.[/list]
All and all, $800 or so in a SWS. We went from 100yds to 1000yds in under 60 rounds and shot a man size target and 1000yds with ease with the left over ammo. total round count:
60 rounds and 3 hours on the range
My point in posting this is, you do not need the most wis-bang crap out there, just the ability to read and learn.
Get out there, shoot some rounds, there is not a place in the U.S. that does not have some shooters that you can learn from "good and bad" I will be in NC in August for good, any one in the AO that needs help look me up here. I am always welling to help out.
John
Ok guys, Zoyter2 read this topic front and back, up and down. To day he and I went out to 1000yds with his bone stock rifle.
This is what I call a bone stock SWS.
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Savage 10FP in .308 win with factory stock
All and all, $800 or so in a SWS. We went from 100yds to 1000yds in under 60 rounds and shot a man size target and 1000yds with ease with the left over ammo. total round count:
60 rounds and 3 hours on the range
My point in posting this is, you do not need the most wis-bang crap out there, just the ability to read and learn.
Get out there, shoot some rounds, there is not a place in the U.S. that does not have some shooters that you can learn from "good and bad"
John
Re: For the new guys
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by J.Boyette:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Ok guys, Zoyter2 read this topic front and back, up and down. To day he and I went out to 1000yds with his bone stock rifle.........................
My point in posting this is, you do not need the most wis-bang crap out there, just the ability to read and learn.
Get out there, shoot some rounds, there is not a place in the U.S. that does not have some shooters that you can learn from "good and bad" I will be in NC in August for good, any one in the AO that needs help look me up here. I am always welling to help out.
John </span></div></div>One other thing that helps is great instructions! If you are in the NC AO and are just starting out (like me) or need a few pointers, you will do well to take John up on his offer.
Only a few weeks ago, I would have bet that a 500 yard shot would be far beyond my capabilities. I even told John this before he started helping me out. Today, 1000 yards turned out to be realistic
On the way home John and I were discussing the abilities of some of you that are "pro-class" shooters with top of the line equipment. I told him that no matter how tight a shooter's groups may be, or what their accomplishments are, no one has ever felt any more satisfaction than when I took my first 1000 yard shot today and heard John call it a "hit".....I can see a new addiction!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by J.Boyette:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Ok guys, Zoyter2 read this topic front and back, up and down. To day he and I went out to 1000yds with his bone stock rifle.........................
My point in posting this is, you do not need the most wis-bang crap out there, just the ability to read and learn.
Get out there, shoot some rounds, there is not a place in the U.S. that does not have some shooters that you can learn from "good and bad"
John </span></div></div>One other thing that helps is great instructions! If you are in the NC AO and are just starting out (like me) or need a few pointers, you will do well to take John up on his offer.
Only a few weeks ago, I would have bet that a 500 yard shot would be far beyond my capabilities. I even told John this before he started helping me out. Today, 1000 yards turned out to be realistic
On the way home John and I were discussing the abilities of some of you that are "pro-class" shooters with top of the line equipment. I told him that no matter how tight a shooter's groups may be, or what their accomplishments are, no one has ever felt any more satisfaction than when I took my first 1000 yard shot today and heard John call it a "hit".....I can see a new addiction!
Re: For the new guys
One, more thing, we did not shoot groups at all, just getting ZERO's, but he had one group at 700yds that was the best I have ever seen, like .50 MOA or less, and at 1000yds two that were 1 MOA or so.
That just shows you what a good rifle and a good shooter can do.
John
One, more thing, we did not shoot groups at all, just getting ZERO's, but he had one group at 700yds that was the best I have ever seen, like .50 MOA or less, and at 1000yds two that were 1 MOA or so.
That just shows you what a good rifle and a good shooter can do.
John
Re: For the new guys
ruhroh, here we go...........
Welcome aboard everyone! From one newb to another (I consider myself a newb due to low round count and little time on the trigger), this is a great place to be. I've learned how to reload on the cheap, build a rifle on the cheap, and best of all shoot about moa at most distances out to 6-700 with the above cheap ammo and stick. Of course my definition of cheap has changed since I landed, I prolly have @$1500 in my rifle and reloading gear and I still need a good scope.........
Maybe someone more eloquent than I will go into the break-in answer..........
ruhroh, here we go...........
Welcome aboard everyone! From one newb to another (I consider myself a newb due to low round count and little time on the trigger), this is a great place to be. I've learned how to reload on the cheap, build a rifle on the cheap, and best of all shoot about moa at most distances out to 6-700 with the above cheap ammo and stick. Of course my definition of cheap has changed since I landed, I prolly have @$1500 in my rifle and reloading gear and I still need a good scope.........
Maybe someone more eloquent than I will go into the break-in answer..........
Re: For the new guys
CABG,
I do not know if it will help, but with that posted:
On my Savage 10FLP I did not brake in the BBL. It was my first bolt gun and I was shooting like 3 MOA at all ranges till I learned to shoot it. Then it held .75 MOA from 25yds to 700yds and 1 MOA from 700yds to 1000yds on AVG.
Now my GAP 700 I did brake in the BBL. It held .75 MOA on the first 5 rounds on BBL brake in and shoots SUB-MOA all day long.
The GAP is easer to clean than the Savage was, The Savage shot good.
So I have no clue if it will help. I say, you will never know if it will help or not, because witch ever road you pick, the rifle will shoot SUB-MOA after 200rnds any how
John
CABG,
I do not know if it will help, but with that posted:
On my Savage 10FLP I did not brake in the BBL. It was my first bolt gun and I was shooting like 3 MOA at all ranges till I learned to shoot it. Then it held .75 MOA from 25yds to 700yds and 1 MOA from 700yds to 1000yds on AVG.
Now my GAP 700 I did brake in the BBL. It held .75 MOA on the first 5 rounds on BBL brake in and shoots SUB-MOA all day long.
The GAP is easer to clean than the Savage was, The Savage shot good.
So I have no clue if it will help. I say, you will never know if it will help or not, because witch ever road you pick, the rifle will shoot SUB-MOA after 200rnds any how
John
Re: For the new guys
I havent don a lot of rifle-shooting but this forum is really a huge help. Im thinking about buying a 308 rifle for long range target-practise. Here in Norway things cost a bit more than in America so I can save a lot of money getting parts from America. Can anyone recomend a dealer or dealers that sell Mcmillan stocks and a decent mil-dot scope, and will ship this to Norway? Im probably going to use a Remington 700 mechanisme. Any sugestions on what barrel to choose?
I havent don a lot of rifle-shooting but this forum is really a huge help. Im thinking about buying a 308 rifle for long range target-practise. Here in Norway things cost a bit more than in America so I can save a lot of money getting parts from America. Can anyone recomend a dealer or dealers that sell Mcmillan stocks and a decent mil-dot scope, and will ship this to Norway? Im probably going to use a Remington 700 mechanisme. Any sugestions on what barrel to choose?
Re: For the new guys
Good Morning,
I recently gained access to a rifle range that allows up to 1000 meters to shoot. I never shot a rifle at that distance, and would like to learn the skills to be proficiant at such distances. This was one of the recomended websites. I am not new to shooting, but long range shooting is a totaly new thing for me. The closest I have to a presision rifle, is a Varnment rifle in 308.
Thank you
Good Morning,
I recently gained access to a rifle range that allows up to 1000 meters to shoot. I never shot a rifle at that distance, and would like to learn the skills to be proficiant at such distances. This was one of the recomended websites. I am not new to shooting, but long range shooting is a totaly new thing for me. The closest I have to a presision rifle, is a Varnment rifle in 308.
Thank you
Re: For the new guys
X,
In terms of marksmanship skill, shooting LR is the same as smallbore gallery shooting. The big difference between LR and most any other shooting is the effect of wind/weather on external ballistics which makes accuracy less predictable.
Learn the effects of wind on the bullet, as well as, internal ballistics, too. And, getcha a data book, more commonly called a score book, to record your shot call, shot placement and the wind/weather conditions present at the time of taking a shot. Eventually, with practice, you will know, from various indicators, how much wind you'll have to put on your sight to get in the X-ring, and stay there, even when weather conditions are changing during your string of fire.
Your .308 will work at 1000 yards; yet, if your scope is a 1 inch main tube model, you'll probably need an LR tapered base; and, for starters, shooting something like Federal Gold Medal Match loaded with 175 grain SMK's will better assure the external ballistics necessary to reach the LR target nose-on with a low SD. Also, zero your rifle for LR first at 100 yards before actually shooting at the LR target. For example, by using a ballistics program such as the one from JBM on the web, you can quickly determine, from your bullet's BC and muzzle velocity, what height, above line of sight at 100 yards, your bullet will be to have line of sight and POI coincide at 1000 yards. So, if let's say the bullet path turns ot to be 40 inches high at one hundred yards for your bullet to have POA and POI coincide at 1000, then just click up to get that 40 inch high bullet path at 100 yards while still on the 100 yard range. Following this proceedure will assure you that you've got enough elevation available from your scope and mount to get to 1000 yards, as well as, assure your first round will at least be on the LR target. Being on target right off is a real ammunition saver since, if you are not on paper, it's difficult to determine what you need to do about sight adjustment to get on paper.
X,
In terms of marksmanship skill, shooting LR is the same as smallbore gallery shooting. The big difference between LR and most any other shooting is the effect of wind/weather on external ballistics which makes accuracy less predictable.
Learn the effects of wind on the bullet, as well as, internal ballistics, too. And, getcha a data book, more commonly called a score book, to record your shot call, shot placement and the wind/weather conditions present at the time of taking a shot. Eventually, with practice, you will know, from various indicators, how much wind you'll have to put on your sight to get in the X-ring, and stay there, even when weather conditions are changing during your string of fire.
Your .308 will work at 1000 yards; yet, if your scope is a 1 inch main tube model, you'll probably need an LR tapered base; and, for starters, shooting something like Federal Gold Medal Match loaded with 175 grain SMK's will better assure the external ballistics necessary to reach the LR target nose-on with a low SD. Also, zero your rifle for LR first at 100 yards before actually shooting at the LR target. For example, by using a ballistics program such as the one from JBM on the web, you can quickly determine, from your bullet's BC and muzzle velocity, what height, above line of sight at 100 yards, your bullet will be to have line of sight and POI coincide at 1000 yards. So, if let's say the bullet path turns ot to be 40 inches high at one hundred yards for your bullet to have POA and POI coincide at 1000, then just click up to get that 40 inch high bullet path at 100 yards while still on the 100 yard range. Following this proceedure will assure you that you've got enough elevation available from your scope and mount to get to 1000 yards, as well as, assure your first round will at least be on the LR target. Being on target right off is a real ammunition saver since, if you are not on paper, it's difficult to determine what you need to do about sight adjustment to get on paper.
Re: For the new guys
Grenader,
<span style="font-weight: bold">McMillan Fiberglass Stocks</span>
McMillan Fiberglass Stocks, Inc.
1638 W. Knudsen Dr Suite 101
Phoenix, AZ 85027 USA
Phone 623.582.9635 - Fax 623.581.3825
Email them at: [email protected]
Mil-dot,
well I rember reading that these can not be shipped out of the U.S. because of the reticle being Military.
Call get in contact with <span style="font-weight: bold">SWFA</span> at
SWFA
420 Century Way, #100
Red Oak, TX, 75154
Phone Number: (972) SCOPE-IT (726-7348)
Fax Number: (972) 617-1647
Chris will get you on the right track.
John.
Grenader,
<span style="font-weight: bold">McMillan Fiberglass Stocks</span>
McMillan Fiberglass Stocks, Inc.
1638 W. Knudsen Dr Suite 101
Phoenix, AZ 85027 USA
Phone 623.582.9635 - Fax 623.581.3825
Email them at: [email protected]
Mil-dot,
well I rember reading that these can not be shipped out of the U.S. because of the reticle being Military.
Call get in contact with <span style="font-weight: bold">SWFA</span> at
SWFA
420 Century Way, #100
Red Oak, TX, 75154
Phone Number: (972) SCOPE-IT (726-7348)
Fax Number: (972) 617-1647
Chris will get you on the right track.
John.
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