Forgotten history, US army's largest and deadliest battle.
- Thread starter 2ndamendfan
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I have not forgotten, I have walked that battlefield and visited the cemeteries there.
Still not as much of a waste as having troops run a mile across a beach into machine guns at Normandy.
Still not as much of a waste as having troops run a mile across a beach into machine guns at Normandy.
I've not forgotten. My grandfather fought there. Was wounded at Ypres later.
Could never understand why they did that and all those men lost, weren't they capable of figuring out to attack from another location because that seems like common sense ,not being a Military Commander. Or better yet have the ships shell the hell out of the beachfront to soften up any enemy fortifications.
My grandfather . Swiss immigrant, he survived that campaign ( Meuse Argonne ) along with a few other listed for his Co. in US WW1 occupation . Then he had wife, 4 kids, and farm, then the bastard dragged him back to European front again for WW2 and he made it through that .
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Funny thing I was just at Normandy this weekend.
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The lack of shelling of the Nazi fixed positions has always made me wonder.
The ships would have been in no danger and I can't see that they would have drawn any more attention than all the other ships launching the landing craft.
It sure would have softened up the Germans
Yeah I always wondered that myself. Did they not know or hugely under estimate what they were in for?
The beaches were shelled from ships, and bombed from the air- or were supposed to be. For fear of hitting incoming troops, shells went long and bomber pilots delayed dropping their bombs, allowing the ordinance to safely detonate well behind the enemy fortifications. Rocket ships also sailed with the incoming landing craft, but were hopelessly inaccurate.
If you haven't been, the National WWII Museum in New Orleans, it is a great place to start your exploration of the history of the war. Housed in the building where the factory that built the Higgins boats was located, the history of that shallow draft assault craft is on full display.
There are also a number of books that go into the "why then, there, and like that?" of the Normandy invasion. The short of it is that Normandy represented the best of a very limited set of shitty options, given the goals and technology of the day.
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Argonne is on my grandpappy's discharge papers. 144th Reg. Died in the Houston VA hospital in 1969 from lifelong COPD. Pvt. Charles A Martin.
Yeah, the morass that the AEF found itself in once it reached the hedge rows of France was directly related to poor recon. Aireal recon clearly showed the topography of the land, so the planners knew the hedge rows were there. But, no one planning the invasion had had eyeballs on those hedge rows. They had, however, seen English hedge rows. Built to cordon off fields, but kept trimmed low so that fox hunters could jump their horses over them, hedge rows were not seen as much of a concern. Unfortunately, French hedge rows were much denser, wider, taller, and just constructed totally differently. A Sherman tank traversing a French hedge row exposed its soft underside and was easy pickings for a German with a panzerfaust.
Aireal photos are essentially 2D, so the height of the structures was unknown.
I've said it before, and I'll continue to do so. The invasion of Normandy would have gone 'better' if they actually had the tank support that was designed and intended to be there. EXCEPT for the captain of the ship that was carrying said tanks, he set the tanks off WAY TOO FAR out to sea. They were designed to be released within 100 or so yards from shore. The captain didn't want to come so close to shore, so he ordered all the tanks off between 400 and 700 yards from shore. The waves/swells were far too large for the design of the tanks, and they all went down. "Swamped" almost instantly.
For everyone's knowledge of the Invasion of Normandy, aka D-Day Landings (on ALL the beaches) just how much better do you think it'd have been if there were actual tanks on the sand? This is something that isn't talked about, isn't advertised, and is actually quite 'hushed'. But the evidence is there, and statements have been made by a few, who were there.
It is my own personal opinion that the duration of the battle and the cost of so many casualties rests primarily on that one captains shoulders. Aside from hitler himself, of course.
For everyone's knowledge of the Invasion of Normandy, aka D-Day Landings (on ALL the beaches) just how much better do you think it'd have been if there were actual tanks on the sand? This is something that isn't talked about, isn't advertised, and is actually quite 'hushed'. But the evidence is there, and statements have been made by a few, who were there.
It is my own personal opinion that the duration of the battle and the cost of so many casualties rests primarily on that one captains shoulders. Aside from hitler himself, of course.
One of my Great Uncles was killed in 1914
His brother served in France from 1915-1918, aside from a small paid excursion for several weeks when he was fighting the Turks in Gallipoli in 1915
He talked about the war a lot when I was young. Always said that the Gurkhas were the best soldiers he served with
His brother served in France from 1915-1918, aside from a small paid excursion for several weeks when he was fighting the Turks in Gallipoli in 1915
He talked about the war a lot when I was young. Always said that the Gurkhas were the best soldiers he served with
Culpeper, your grandfather & my Father were born the same year. Dad was the 301 mounted artillery in WWI. Have his picture with the rest of the unit.
Thunder in the Argonne - The University Press of Kentucky
In July 1918, sensing that the German Army had lost crucial momentum, Supreme Allied Commander Ferdinand Foch saw an opportunity to end the First World War. ...
kentuckypress.com
Great book. This is not a rehash of a lot of previous work. Mastriano is a hell of an historian and a great writer.
The plan called for the duplex drive tanks to debark 4km from the beaches, and sunken DD tanks have been found at about this mark on the sea floor. Unfortunately, a Sherman tank fitted with a canvas skirt does not make an ocean going vehicle. Unseaworthy in a swimming pool, these tanks were no match for the channel and all but 2 sunk.
236 LSTs (landing ship tank) were used during operation overlord, landing heavy equipment- including tanks- on the beaches. But, these slow easy targets necessarily were held back until the beaches were secure.
It should also be remembered that not all of the Normandy beach landings went over like was seen in Saving Private Ryan. While Omaha beach was hell on earth, other beaches were assaulted and secured with little resistance.
I just want to be half the man of any of those guys who stormed the beach.
Dombern34, I am fortunate to have a friend like that. I always tell him I wish I was as good & tough as he is. Sadly, while his body looks normal he is pretty busted up. Pride of the US Marines.
Maxwell
Maxwell
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