I'm looking at getting a Bergara b14 HMR in 6.5 CM and am wanting to try to get my dies ordered for it. I have decided on the forster full length resizing die and am thinking about having the neck honed to reduce runout. I have saw other guys have it honed anywhere from .002 to .006. I am wondering how you determine what the optimum amount to hone is, as I am new to reloading for precision. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance
Forster Full Length Die Honed neck
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The short answer is take a loaded round and measure the neck diameter. An example would be a bullet (0.264) plus brass neck thickness times 2 (0.015 X 2) so 0.294 for loaded. Then you might want to hone it 0.002 to 0.006 below that depending on if you're going to use the expander ball or if you want a specific neck, if you're neck turning so you have consistent necks between different brands of brass vs if you will only ever use one type of brass.
Imo you either have to turn all your necks OR you'll have to use the expander ball. Others may differ but in this situation you won't have different sized bushings to dictate neck tension.
ETA: I personally have considered this but haven't pulled the trigger as it really locks you into a specific brass specification. If I was going to do it it'd be for my FTR rifle, not my 6.5 Creedmoor.
Imo you either have to turn all your necks OR you'll have to use the expander ball. Others may differ but in this situation you won't have different sized bushings to dictate neck tension.
ETA: I personally have considered this but haven't pulled the trigger as it really locks you into a specific brass specification. If I was going to do it it'd be for my FTR rifle, not my 6.5 Creedmoor.
We don't have dies honed to reduce runout...Forster dies already produce some if the least runout out there as they come from the factory with their high expander ball...
we have them honed to reduce the amount the die squeezes the neck down to extend brass life. Some hone for exact neck tension...most hone .002-.003 under final neck diameter then open up in a second step with an expander to set final neck tension.
we have them honed to reduce the amount the die squeezes the neck down to extend brass life. Some hone for exact neck tension...most hone .002-.003 under final neck diameter then open up in a second step with an expander to set final neck tension.
Ok im planning to load with Lapua brass only. I will start with one honed .002 and go from there. Thanks for the info.
If youre only going to guess at how much to hone out then dont bother, save the 12 bucks (plus their surcharge over other vendors so 37 at brownells vs 60 from forster directly). Unless you mean .002 under loaded diameter instead of only honing it .002 larger than they would come normally. I could have misinterpreted what you said so I hope you dont take this as chiding.
Take your loaded neck diameter and subtract .004 from it (per forsters own recommendations). That gives you enough sizing down for the expanding back up to equally work all of the brass and saves you maybe .006 of over sizing. That also gives you an extra thousandth or two of leeway for other brass types should that ever happen. And if I misunderstood you, as mentioned above, and you mean that youre going to hone to .002 under loaded diameter and skip expanding at all then I will say Lapua is about as good as you can get factory but it still have .001-.0015 in thickness variation in the necks on the pieces that I have measured. So its good as you can buy off the shelf but its not as good as turned brass that most who skip the expanding step are using.
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Just to be clear, you don't call up Forster and tell them to hone the die 0.002. You have to give them a specific number to hone the neck diameter to. That means you have to get your brass in hand, load some rounds with a bullet, then measure the neck diameter to get an average diameter of a loaded round. Then at that point you can subtract 0.002 and call up Forster and tell them what size you want. Example.... loaded round measures .294 at the neck (.264 bullet diameter plus 0.015 thick brass neck on either side), you would ask for a 0.292 neck hone. They will also do it in half thou increments.
Don't guess at the number, neck thickness on brass can vary from lot to lot, even within Lapua.
Most guys who are doing the neck honing are also expanding the neck in a second step with a mandrel. In that case you want to size down a bit smaller than 002 under neck diameter so that the mandrel has the ability to actually expand the neck. This is what I do and my dies are honed to 0.0035-0.004 under loaded round diameter.
Final word of warning.... you can't put material back once you hone the die. If you went to 0.002 but discovered that it wasn't sizing the case enough, you've essentially ruined your die. Several possible scenarios could lead to this... you don't anneal and brass springs back a lot so you aren't getting 0.002 sizing anymore. You switch lots and/or brands of brass down the road and it's thinner than your last lot of brass. Or finally if you decided you wanted to run a mandrel to expand the brass as a final step... too late, you've already honed out too much material on the die for that approach.
My recommendation since you're new to precision reloading...don't hone the die to start out. You can always do it later on once you've got a better handle on all the processes and know if it's something you really want/need to do.
I have dies with necks honed to a particular diameter but only do so after experimenting with different size bushings in a Type S die to obtain the proper neck tension. The benefits of using a honed die can be negated if the expander plug or mandrel is run through the neck following sizing. In addition for best results neck turning will most likely be required to provide uniform neck wall thickness. Since you are just starting out reloading, my advice would be to keep it simple, it will get more complicated in due course.
Like I said earlier, as a beginner none of this is necessary for you to make quality, concentric, accurate ammo. Until you have reloaded for a while, got a good grasp on it and understand exactly why you would want to hone, exactly what numbers you want, etc. than just buy the die and get into reloading. Starting out outside neck sizing with a honed die with no mandrel or expander is just asking for making things frustrating and difficult from the start. Do what you want be we are just trying to help you buy something that will get you making top quality ammo with minimal effort. You can always mail that die back to Forster with $12 and a number for them to hone it at any time down the road.
Thanks guys for the info I understand measuring from a loaded round and not just hone a factory die .002, sorry I didn't explain myself very well. I'm not really wanting to turn the necks so you think I should hone .004 under loaded diameter, as recommended by forster?
If you're going to hone, then 0.004 is a safe number. You will need to leave the expander ball in the die or buy yourself a separate expander mandrel and die so you can expand as a second step. Only real benefit is that you're working the case neck slightly less than if you left the die at a factory dimension.
