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Hunting & Fishing Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

Phil1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 3, 2009
465
7
Minot N.D.
This is a local story, that attracted international attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-g7Ie0nr2k

Latest:

August 10, 2009

YouTube duck poacher offers apology

In the eye of international outrage, poaching suspect says sorry

By MICHAEL PLATT



The now-infamous duck-shooting video shows three men trying to kill birds seemingly without a care in the world. A recent interview with one alleged shooter revealed remorse.
CALGARY -- He's really, really sorry.

Really.

David Fraser can't apologize enough, as he talks about ducks, guns and stupid decisions, knowing the anger of countless Canadians will soon be focused on the little Saskatchewan town he calls home.

"What can I say? We've never been in any kind of trouble before. We're just three young guys who made a stupid mistake," says Fraser.

"Not that it's any excuse, but we honestly didn't know it was crime -- if we did we wouldn't have uploaded it to the internet and we never would have done it in the first place.

"We really didn't know and we're very sorry about it."



That Fraser speaks quickly, sounding worried and a bit jittery as he throws out explanations and apologies, isn't too surprising.

This morning, 30-year-old Fraser will join his 23-year-old brother James Fraser and their brother-in-law Jeremy Rowlands at a Saskatoon courthouse, where the trio will answer to charges of slaughtering ducks for fun.

A flood of tips to Saskatchewan's anti-poaching line led to the arrests made by wildlife officers and RCMP.

Until today's court appearance, the trio had anonymity to shield them from the barrage of loathing aimed at the unknown men in the online video, who laugh with cruel glee as they shoot at ducks swimming in a small pond.

Now, the three men from Cudworth, Sask., will be known to all. Public fury that's been festering for more than a week will finally have a focus. It won't be pretty and Fraser knows it. There's already been vague threats.

"I have children, and we live in a small town, and I read one post about the ducklings being orphaned, and there was a post saying, 'I hope they have kids so we can take care of their kids and show them how the ducks feel', " says Fraser.

He knows many people, including furious hunters and livid animal-rights advocates, see him and his comrades as blood-thirsty savages who killed the ducks for a sick thrill.

But really, says Fraser, that's not who they are. Not at all -- the laughter over orphaned ducklings and dying birds was out of character.

"Is there remorse over killing the ducks? Absolutely. We're all pet owners here, both cats and dogs, and we're not in the habit of killing animals normally."

He says sorry again, repeating that he had no idea duck hunting from the window of a car, with a rifle, was not allowed in Saskatchewan.

Fraser and his brother, you see, aren't from the West. They arrived in Saskatchewan a half-year-or-so back, from Toronto, where he says the only birds they ever saw were seagulls and pigeons.

Fraser says the video which has acted as a catalyst for anger and outrage was only posted because it looks so much like other YouTube videos, showing proud hunters and their quarry.

"We'd been on YouTube, and we saw all sorts of things being killed, like skunks and rodents," he says.

"It was just one of those silly things -- we didn't think hunting ducks was that big of a deal."

Except when you shoot ducks out of season, with a rifle, from your car and the roadside, it's called poaching.

It's that clear difference that's enraged the hunting community across North America, and catching the trio of duck killers has been the hottest topic on hunting forums from Alberta to Texas.

Fraser says sorry to the hunters, too.

"It was a really stupid, stupid mistake," he says.

"I feel bad for the hunting community and we understand how this has portrayed them, giving hunting a black eye."

And today, in court, the charges will be heard and their names will be made public. Fraser says he'll say sorry one last time and he hopes it's enough.

"If they give us a chance to speak, we're going to offer up a very sincere public apology," he says.

"We're really sorry."

[email protected]
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">"I feel bad for the hunting community and we understand how this has portrayed them, giving hunting a black eye."
</span>

"We're really sorry."


</div></div>

Sounds like a good pistol whipping is in order. Seriously though, I hope their hunting rights have been stripped.
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

I'll give em a pass..ducks are just food to me anyway, I don't care how you treat your hamburger.
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

While I completely agree with the general sentiment regarding slaughtering ducks on the water and the need protect/manage waterfowl. How would you guys feel if I posted a video of the ruthless slaughter of feral hogs? Is it the killing that gets people riled up? The breaking of game laws? Or do we hold certain animals higher then others?
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While I completely agree with the general sentiment regarding slaughtering ducks on the water and the need protect/manage waterfowl. How would you guys feel if I posted a video of the ruthless slaughter of feral hogs? Is it the killing that gets people riled up? The breaking of game laws? Or do we hold certain animals higher then others? </div></div>

Well yes and no. I come down on the fact that these are game birds, vrs nuisance varmits for which there is no closed season or permit needed.

Here is a somewhat related issue involving the legal harvest for food.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=88129
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

August 10, 2009

YouTube duck poachers plead guilty

By The Canadian Press



James Fraser, 23, left, shields his face from the media while leaving court with his brother David in Saskatoon, Sask., Monday, Aug. 10, 2009. (CP/Geoff Howe)
SASKATOON — Three young men who filmed themselves gleefully blasting ducks out of a Saskatchewan pond and then posted the video on YouTube were fined thousands of dollars Monday.

David Fraser, James Fraser and Jeremy Rowlands pleaded guilty in a Saskatoon court to breaking several federal and provincial wildlife laws in an incident that sparked widespread public outrage.

The video, which was shown in court, shows the men cheering each other on as at least two of them use rifles to shoot the ducks and ducklings.

Justice Doug Agnew called their actions “stupid, reckless and irresponsible,” and fined the Frasers $5,000 each and Rowlands $6,000 and also ordered them to turn over the rifles.

The men stood side by side in court and apologized for their behaviour. Earlier, they had tried to shield their faces as they rushed out of the courthouse.

They pleaded guilty to unlawful hunting, hunting out of season, discharging a firearm from a vehicle and leaving edible game to be wasted.



The maximum penalty is $100,000 for the provincial offences and $300,000 under federal laws, with the possibility of six months jail time.

Darrell Crabbe, executive director of the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation, said even hunters were outraged by the case because what the trio did was both illegal and immoral.

“I was disgusted,” he said of his reaction to first seeing the video. “Those birds were moulting at that time. Of course, the young are unable to fly anyway. It’s all about the ethics in this situation.”

“The hunting fraternity in Saskatchewan and other conservationists really jumped on board. It was great to see so many people focused in on this. The ethical hunting community really took this upon themselves to make this right.”

Brian Petrar with Environment Canada said the case really had nothing to do with hunting.

“It was people using birds as target practice,” he said outside court.

An investigation was started last week after the video surfaced.

Authorities did not know the location where the shooting happened but suspected it was somewhere in Saskatchewan or Alberta because there was a road sign visible and there were blooming fields of canola in the background.

The video prompted a flood of tips from the public.

“The response from our standpoint was fantastic in that the public were obviously outraged by what they saw and the number of calls that they made from tiplines both in Alberta and Saskatchewan was a direct result of why we were able to arrest these individuals on Saturday,” Petrar said.

He said the fact the video was posted on YouTube was instrumental in this case.

“Unless we happened to have an officer present in the area when they did it or a member of the public saw them doing it and reported it, obviously we wouldn’t have known about it.”

The three men were arrested Saturday in a small Saskatoon-area community.


Sydney Eve Matrix, professor of film and media studies at Queen’s University, said the case will also bring some attention to the consequences of using social media sites such as YouTube.

She said it’s very easy for people who are accustomed to sharing with their friends to underestimate the impact of posting such material.

“There is a micro-fame and micro-celebrity phenomenon which comes from having some international audience larger than closer family and friends,” she said.

“We are getting more savvy about the impact of social media in our society, but we need to talk more about it.”
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

The problem is simple, the penalties are not anywhere near harsh enough. They get a slap on the wrist and sent on their way.

For what those guys did to get a $5000 fine and loose their rifle....big DEAL!

This is the exact reason why no one takes hunting game laws seriously. In ND we have tons of cases of guys shooting hundreds of water fowl, eagles, way too many deer, guides letting clients shoot way over their limits and disposing of the extras. Letting clients shoot dozens of birds and "not finding" them. Ranchers/Farmers killing owls/eagles/deer/hawks by the dozens to save their crops or pheasant "business" They get before a judge get a few thousand dollar fine, have their hunting rights taken away for a couple years and go on their way. The fines for guides are not much worse. What does a guide care if they get fined $5000 when they have 10 guys paying them $5000 each to hunt pheasants for 3 days for the whole pheasant season. You really think the guide is going to tell them they can only shoot 2 a day?

In 2006 they had a guy posing as a guide, had 350+ ducks in his freezer, pheasant hens, numerous documented illegal guiding operations. Guy gets a $9000 fine and his guiding privileges suspended for 12 years.....he wasn't even a guide to start with, it's a joke.

Even possibly one of the biggest game violation case in the US, in 2007 they caught a guide outfit for allowing 97+ hunters (those were just what they had evidence to charge) from 27 states to violate multiple game laws. They fined the $90K (estimated to be less than 1/3 of what they made in a YEAR from the violations and they were in business for decades) no jail time, they lost two shotguns, and their guide privileges permanently, and their hunting rights for a whole 2 years.

There's only been 3 felony game violation convictions in ND's history, none involved jail time. Some of those crimes include multiple eagle shootings, violations of over 1000 waterfowl animals dumped in a ditch, and hundreds of owls/hawks/falcons killed by baited snares on fence posts.

Guys get upset about wolves/coyotes/fox etc. taking their hunting game, be more worried about guys like these and guides that don't follow the rules when enough $ is tossed at them. I guarantee they take more game than all the wolves in the US.
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

There is a huge range of fines for poaching. in Canada there has been $50,000 fines and higher handed down by the courts. Those cases were reserved for bighorn sheep "trophy" poaching in a national park.

In Sask. the population is probably closer to hunting than any other province excepting Nunavut and the Yukon. Both of our national TV networks carried the story and the pictures of these three men coming and leaving the courts was shown.

They are on the front page of our newspaper ( http://digital.thestarphoenix.com/epaper/viewer.aspx ).They are actually from a small town (named Cudworth)population 300-400. So there isn't a single person in the whole town who isn't aware of the publicity that they have brought upon themselves.

Canada : Canada: Poaching sentence lauded by hunters
on 2009/5/28 7:43:21 (70 reads)
Alberta hunters are pleased with an unusually tough sentence handed down to a Valleyview poacher.

Blair Dietzen, 20, this week received an almost unheard-of 60-day jail term for shooting three deer and a moose at night near Valleyview.

"It's about time that some judges started slapping meaningful sentences on these poachers," said Quentin Bochar, president of the Alberta Fish and Game Association.

Poachers give legitimate hunters a bad name, he said.

"The guy got a pretty good sentence. I'm happy about that. It's refreshing to see something like this happening."

Dietzen and his accomplice, Carl Laarakker, were caught on the evening of Oct. 13, 2007, when they returned to the field where they had shot the animals in the early-morning hours that same day.

Several people called the Report-a-Poacher hotline, and fish and wildlife officers who showed up found the animals dead in the field.

Dietzen and Laarakker had done their shooting after attending a bush party. Dietzen said in court he'd been drinking and smoking marijuana that night.

The field where they shot the animals was within rifle range of an inhabited home.

Dietzen originally faced 13 charges and pleaded guilty to five: hunting at night, hunting in a dangerous manner, hunting in a closed season, using a vehicle to harass, injure or kill wildlife, and wasting the edible flesh of a game animal.

Judge Vaughn Myers sentenced Dietzen to two 60-day sentences, to be served concurrently, for hunting in a dangerous manner and using a vehicle to harass, injure or kill wildlife. He added three years' probation to the sentence.

In addition, Dietzen was fined a total of $7,000, prohibited from hunting for 12 years, and prohibited from possessing a firearm for three years.

Laarakker, of Vernon, B.C., pleaded guilty to several charges in January. He was fined $7,000 and received a lifetime ban from hunting in Alberta.

In his summation, Judge James Watson said "allowing edible meat to spoil to me is, if anything, egregious."

In an earlier court appearance, Myers said he was considering a jail sentence because Dietzen shot from a vehicle near an occupied home while under the influence of drugs and alcohol. He also noted that Dietzen had in the past taught young hunters about the sport, making his crimes particularly egregious.

"There's no doubt this is a significant case," said Dave Ealey, a spokesman for Alberta Sustainable Resource Development. "There are the jail aspects of it ... and these are not insignificant fines."

But Ealey said since there's a 30-day appeal period, he is restricted in what he can say about the case.

He could not say whether this was the harshest sentence received by a poacher, partly because there are many different types of cases. Often, those that end up in court tend to be the result of undercover work on poaching and trafficking rings.

In 2002, two provincial court judges doled out more than $250,000 in fines and nearly 10 years in jail time to people who sold and bought animal parts. They were caught by undercover wildlife officers who had infiltrated three poaching rings.

In 1999, a Spruce Grove man was fined $15,000 -- one of the highest national parks fines ever -- for poaching a bighorn sheep in Jasper National Park.

In 1994, the first poacher ever convicted of killing a bighorn sheep in an Alberta national park was sentenced to 30 days in jail and a $7,500 fine. The guide and outfitter had a previous poaching conviction.

Dietzen's lawyer said during a previous court appearance his client had never been before the courts, had been a good student, and said the incident was totally out of character.

Neither Dietzen's family nor his lawyer could be reached for comment.



http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/ref/oceans_01-eng.htm
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

They are still way too soft....

So two guys that poached trophy big horn sheep were still fined less than the cost of a guided trophy big horn sheep hunt, and those are the highest fines ever for poaching in a national park....sad

It's like steeling a car and then being fined 50% of the cars value with no jail time, and loosing your license for a year. It's not a deterrent.

Never been in the courts, good student, out of character. Yeah because a good person after a hard day at school is driving home and stops on the side of the road and just randomly decided to shoot waterfowl out of season, with a rifle, out of his car and puts it on the internet. Yeah and when the unabomber was caught that was his first bomb ever...really!
 
Re: Game vrs. Non-game Hunting

Rockchucks,prairie dogs,and ground squirrels were put on this planet for target practice,Why did these dumbasses pick a game bird?They deserve what they got.