- Thread starter S.Kay
- Start date
What is the twist rate on the barrel? Straight twist or a Gain twist?
Thanks brother, looks sweet. Good luck with it!
Very impressive. I own two Surgeon actions (591 & 1086R) and while both are superb, my brother's GAP Templar feels tighter. It has a rock solid lock to it that I do not feel with my Surgeons. And this Templar version 2 looks like an improvement on already perfection. Definitely a "next build" component.
Are you running a mini-chassis on the T4-A?
How is the mini 16 extractor better?
IMO, they cause more problems than they are worth by moving the ejection angle higher than a standard Remington extractor. This in turn bounces brass off the turret on the scope.
Ymmv.
lw8, they are easily tuned to throw the brass about anywhere you want them. I run that extractor on all my GAP builds and I have never had an issue with hitting scope turrets....
Regarding the idea that Defiance has "copied" Surgeon.
My pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters pre-date the Surgeon action and have integral recoil lugs. For that matter my 1909 Argentine Mauser predates the Surgeon by around a century and has an integral recoil lug. My Sako and CZs' both have an integral scope mounts, albeit not a twenty minute slope, and these features also pre-date the Surgeon. There really isn't a lot new since Paul and Peter Mauser finalized their design of the '98.
The Defience looks to be an improvement in my mind, stainless for openers. The shorter double stack mag sure beats a long single stack hanging out in the breeze. Glenn has always made a point of proper bolt timing so that should be right on the money, always good to have primary extraction optimized. And it certainly doesn't hurt to have another quality action on the market.
A few questions Shannon. Is that Timney a standard 700 fit trigger? Are the firing pin and spring a 700 fit? Have you pulled the firing pin assembly and checked the internal finish of the bolt?
Interested in a range report too, curious about a 6mm Creedmore, been thinking on a 6 X 47 Lapua.
My pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters pre-date the Surgeon action and have integral recoil lugs. For that matter my 1909 Argentine Mauser predates the Surgeon by around a century and has an integral recoil lug. My Sako and CZs' both have an integral scope mounts, albeit not a twenty minute slope, and these features also pre-date the Surgeon. There really isn't a lot new since Paul and Peter Mauser finalized their design of the '98.
The Defience looks to be an improvement in my mind, stainless for openers. The shorter double stack mag sure beats a long single stack hanging out in the breeze. Glenn has always made a point of proper bolt timing so that should be right on the money, always good to have primary extraction optimized. And it certainly doesn't hurt to have another quality action on the market.
A few questions Shannon. Is that Timney a standard 700 fit trigger? Are the firing pin and spring a 700 fit? Have you pulled the firing pin assembly and checked the internal finish of the bolt?
Interested in a range report too, curious about a 6mm Creedmore, been thinking on a 6 X 47 Lapua.
No it is not a mini-chassis - standard bed job.
Rust - I’ve been very busy so far this year and haven’t shot it much. I did grab some 105s to zero it up and it was very promising as I expected. I’ll tweak the load and verify accuracy and speed in the next few weeks.
The trigger is a Timney flat shoe REM 700. Your trigger guard will need to be taken down a bit for proper clearance depending on what model you have.
I’m assuming that the firing pin and spring are standard 700 but don’t quote me on it. I haven’t looked inside the bolt I to inspect the finish.
Sorry I couldn’t be more help.
Shannon
Yes and no. Tuning the extractor involves removing material so that the bottom of the extractor holds longer/tighter than the top.
Thats good and bad as you are losing extractor capability to improve ejection angle.
IMO, it's fixing a problem that doesn't exist. A factory 700 extractor is generally stronger than the rim of the case. I have seen multiple 700s tear the rim off or through on stuck cases.
If you look at where the extractor on a 700 is positioned, it's much lower than on clones with mini 16 extractors...higher ejection angle or you mod the extractor and end up with less tension.
Not a benefit IMO
The plunger location helps, but the extractor is the hinge point and it decides much more so than the plunger.
So are you saying every one of them HAS to be modified? Because that is not the case. I have many that are not. They still clear the port and scope turrets perfectly.
Not to sound like an ass, but I think Defiance and GA Precision know something you don't. The Mini 16 extractor is doing well in many actions that are out there with customers.
You could remove half of that extractor claw and still be stronger then a brass case FYI.
The only problem with my mini-16 extractor is it throws the brass so far I have to walk the extra few steps to go get it.
No, not all...
It would depend greatly on what caliber and which optic you are running.
I'm not saying the action is bad...its not, just that the extractor isn't an upgrade.
If for example, you are running a 300 win mag with a F1 Nightforce mounted somewhat low, the brass is likely to hit the turret. The same would be true for unfired rounds cycled rapidly as you would with a failure to fire. I've seen this on several brands of action that use M-16 and derivitive extractors. All ejected at a higher angle than a 700 and most ended up having to be "tuned" AKA having part of the extractor hook cut off.
In a 260 with an optic using smaller turrets mounted higher, obviously there would be less potential for an issue.
Either way, its a great action...I just don't personally see the extractor as an upgrade. YMMV
I'm shooting at 5ec 11sec and 28sec. you can see the brass getting launched w/ the mini m16 extractor.
Shannon - I understand not much time, been working this contract in Texas for over two years now with no time off. Want to check out your range, plus I now have four new rifles I haven't had a chance to shoot yet, plus I'd probably drag that raggedy old 6.5 along.
Any results on the 6 Creedmore yet? Been thinking of something else to have built but haven't been able to make up my mind, 6x47 Lapua sounds interesting since I really like Lapua brass and it should closely duplicate a 6 Creedmore.
Any results on the 6 Creedmore yet? Been thinking of something else to have built but haven't been able to make up my mind, 6x47 Lapua sounds interesting since I really like Lapua brass and it should closely duplicate a 6 Creedmore.
