Precision Rifle Gear Garmin Xero C1 - It really is that good (Take 2!)

[RedBreast21]

Let's try this again now that I have deployed my first "Ignore" EVER for a member on a gun forum.

I think the Garmin Xero C1 is great! Share your experiences and recommendations for improvement. I have been sending in the recommendations to Garmin.

For another topic of discussion: What will Labradar and Magnetospeed's (etc) be to the Garmin? Innovate? Drop Price? Hang on until there's nothing left? Based on how long it took Labradar to get the app up (and it's relatively UI difficulty), it's hard for me to see innovation being their next move. But I'm a pessimist.

 

[6.5SH]

IMO it is a Magnetospeed killer (and bulletseeker/andi). It still doesn't do what a LabRadar can even if few actually use one to its full capability.
Hopefully it does spur Infinition to address the software issues they have and perhaps even lower the price.
The FX is similar to the LabRadar in function but their pricing is unreasonable, I'd take 2 Garmins and gamble on placing one down range.

I feel bad for Kestrel buying Magnetospeed when they did, they are going to take a beating on that. I'm not anti-Magnetospeed by any means, they have their scenarios where it is a better choice than a LabRadar. Initial reports of the Garmin seem to indicate it works well in historically radar unfriendly ranges so it pretty much erases the reason for the Magnetospeed to exist.

 

[Maxduty]

IMO it is a Magnetospeed killer (and bulletseeker/andi). It still doesn't do what a LabRadar can even if few actually use one to its full capability.
Hopefully it does spur Infinition to address the software issues they have and perhaps even lower the price.
The FX is similar to the LabRadar in function but their pricing is unreasonable, I'd take 2 Garmins and gamble on placing one down range.

I feel bad for Kestrel buying Magnetospeed when they did, they are going to take a beating on that. I'm not anti-Magnetospeed by any means, they have their scenarios where it is a better choice than a LabRadar. Initial reports of the Garmin seem to indicate it works well in historically radar unfriendly ranges so it pretty much erases the reason for the Magnetospeed to exist.

Other than price. While there's a lot of Garmins being sold, a majority of younger shooters don't have that kind of expendable cash. That's part of the reason the LRs are getting snatched up at low used prices.

I had the opportunity to see a Garmin in action and was quite impressed. I would love to verify one against the others in my own personal shooting sessions.

 

[Steel+Killer]

The Garmin Xero C1 is a game changer for chronographs especially compared to the Magnetto Speed. Only way I see for the Magnetto Speed to exist is if its priced less than $100 IMO. Labrador has a chance, but they are going to have to go back to the drawing board and come up with a 2.0 that can compete with the Garmin Xero C1, but what about a Garmin Xero C2 who knows what it will be.

 

[razerface]

I am not a young shooter, but I almost balked at the price too until reading a bunch about them. I have decided to get one if they ever get back in stock.

 

[6.5SH]

Other than price. While there's a lot of Garmins being sold, a majority of younger shooters don't have that kind of expendable cash. That's part of the reason the LRs are getting snatched up at low used prices.

I had the opportunity to see a Garmin in action and was quite impressed. I would love to verify one against the others in my own personal shooting sessions.

Yep $600 is a huge stretch for many. Sadly they will end up spending more than that if they follow the typical path of a few cheap opticals/Magnetospeed/accessories to make the Magnetospeed actual usable along with the time and ammo wasted.

Those able to take advantage of cheap used pricing on those dumping LabRadar or full MagnetoSpeed setups are going to be better off there.

 

[RedBreast21]

By stacking discount codes and activejunky.com, I was able to get my Garmin for $500 (including tax), not $600, and sold my Labradar for $375. It was an easy decision for the $125 delta.

 

[RedBreast21]

IMO it is a Magnetospeed killer (and bulletseeker/andi). It still doesn't do what a LabRadar can even if few actually use one to its full capability.

I didn't use my LabRadar beyond the basics, but I'm curious as to what the LabRadar can do that the Garmin cannot?

 

[6.5SH]

I didn't use my LabRadar beyond the basics, but I'm curious as to what the LabRadar can do that the Garmin cannot?

Track further and provide signal info at each point. Don't wish to start the poop flinging again with those who don't see the need. But if your range conditions allow it tracking past 200 is possible with some bullets, even past 100 is doable with .22 LR.

I've not seen the Garmin app in person so don't know if it provides a way to spot a bad reading, the screen sure doesn't. On the LabRadar it is easy to spot what may be an errant reading via the signal strength indicator and the yardage display.
But it is also this extra signal strength that causes the woes some have with "noisy" or crowded ranges and a LabRadar.

 

[northshorelumber]

If you are looking for basic chronograph functions-MV,ES,SD- it really is that good. I have had and now sold A MagnetoSpeed and LabRadar. This small chrono is so easy to use and reliable. Again for basic function this Garmin is a revelation compared to the other choices.

 

[NiteQwill]

It's worth every penny.

Cabela's = Discount Code + Active Junky = I picked mine up for $470-480

 

[northshorelumber]

Sorry for the digression but what is Active Junky? I paid $599.

 

[NiteQwill]

Sorry for the digression but what is Active Junky? I paid $599.

It's a cash back incentive program (deposits to PayPal account quarterly)

Google Active Junky

I would be happy to provide a referral link but that's probably frowned upon here.

 

[david walter]

What was the Cabela’s discount code?

 

[RedBreast21]

What was the Cabela’s discount code?

If you are a card holder, you got 15% off everything in the store (except guns/ammo which were 10%) on Mondays in December.

 

[estern17]

Been using it for about a month and a half now and could not be happier. Easy to throw in my bag and set up at the range.

 

[Baron23]

IMO Infinition would not only have to finally fix their idiot phone app, but basically redesign/repackage the Labradar if they want to remain competitive. And....since Labradars are only a small part of their business, as their primary products are much higher end commercial doppler systems, I'm not sure they will have sufficient interest to develop what is basically going to be a new product.

Aside from those few who want to calculate BC from downrange velocities, I see the Garmin as a Labradar killer.

Now, I've had a Labradar for...oh, 4-5 years and it has served me well. Does the app suck sweaty balls...yes, it does. And is aiming the mofo an exercise in being a high precision PIA...yes children, it is. And does it pick up errant shots from adjacent rifles more than is desirable, yeah...it does that also. And does it eat batteries like Oprah eats fried chicken at an all you can eat buffet...sigh, yes, that too. And its large and orange! haha

But errant shots are easily identified and deleted from the series and I can get it adequately aimed and obtain consistent results. I use a reasonably small power pack so batteries are a non-issue. And, its easy to get the csv file off of the unit and into excel (or anything else) via the SD card.

So, frankly, I have not been dissatisfied with my Labradar. However, next spring I will most likely get a Garmin due to size and ease of aiming/picking up all shots (and not extraneous ones). I will most likely give my Labradar to my cousin rather than sell it for the low prices they are going for now.

But, I do have a suspicion that after the Garmin purchase feeding frenzy and associated dumping of Labradars on the used market, the price of used Labradars may go up/stabilize. They are, after all, very good chronographs. Particularly for anybody who remembers when all that was available were optical chronos.

Cheers

 

[Jumper]

Ive had the Labradar for few years. Just got the Garmin. I admit, the extra detail offered by the Labradar is pretty cool. I think I looked at it 3 times. Other than that, MV, ES and SD was the only info I used. But the Labradar is such a PITA to set up and cart around. The Garmin is so small and easy. Gets every shot. My Labradar is going to be gathering dust for the foreseeable future.

 

[klemheist]

I have the Garmin and used the Labradar since they first came out - have since sold the Labradar.

My first impression of the Garmin is it is a quantum leap forward in utility (I am not sponsored by Garmin). Compared to all other chronys it is smaller, lighter, and the automatic phone interface is flawless. The old Labradar sat in a chunky Pelican case, so it was a big separate piece of luggage.

The downside of the Garmin is needing a phone and the phone app (Shotview) to transfer shooting sessions to a computer. Currently they sit in the radar's memory as FIT files, totally useless without decoding software. Labradar stored data as CSV files and no reason why Garmin couldn't do the same.

Upside
Some German guy on YouTube did an experiment to find out how far the Garmin can be from the gun before it stops acquiring., and how wide is the emitter cone. You can sit the device up to a metre to the side of the barrel. The emitter cone is 52degrees which means it's super forgiving for aiming. Plus it's also forgiving of structure down range, which Labradar didn't like.

Power draw is excellent. Have had the thing on for 2 hour the other day and only dropped 20% from full power.

Downside.
There's no inbuilt software to convert shooting data to CSV files. This, so when you plug it into a computer you can download usable files for Excel. Currently the sessions are stored as FIT files. That means when you plug the Garmin into a computer all you can do is charge the device, and upgrade software. If you want usable CSV files you have to have the phone app and a phone - pair it - and email the files to your computer.

Someone on the 6.5Grendel forum has written an open source code to convert Fit to CSV for PC's. Doesn't sound like it's fully debugged yet.

Another downside is you can't add bullet weights after you start shooting. Entering bullet weights prior to the start will add muzzle energy and Power Factors to your velocities.

As for the rifle mounts like Area 419, you don't really need to slave it to the gun. Plus the recoil will hammer it. The mounts seem like a solution looking for a problem. The supplied tripod and generous 52degree acquisition cone works for me.

I use an Otterbox 8000 to store the Garmin and tripod. The Pelican 1010 is the smallest of their cases that will fit the Garmin, but not the tripod.

 

[NiteQwill]

I have the Garmin and used the Labradar since they first came out - have since sold it.

My first impression of the Garmin is excellent. Compared to all other chronys it is smaller, lighter, quicker (to acquire velocities), and the automatic phone interface is flawless. The old Labradar sat in a Pelican case, so it was a big separate piece of luggage.

The downside of the Garmin is needing a phone and the phone app (Shotview) to transfer shooting sessions to a computer. Currently they sit in the radar's memory as FIT files, totally useless without decoding software. Labradar stored data as CSV files and no reason why Garmin couldn't do the same.

Upside
Some German guy on Youtude did an experiment to find out how far the Garmin can be from the gun before it stops acquiring., and how wide is the emitter cone. You can sit the device up to a metre to the side of the barrel. The emitter cone is 52degrees which means it's super forgiving for aiming. Plus it's also forgiving of structure down range, which Labradar didn't like.

Power draw is excellent. Have had the thing on for 2 hours sessions and dropped only 20% from full power.

Downside.
There's no inbuilt software to convert shooting data to CSV files. This, so when you plug it into a computer you can download usable files for Excel. Currently the sessions are stored as FIT files. That means when you plug the Garmin into a computer all you can do is charge the device, and upgrade software. If you want usable CSV files you have to have the phone app and a phone - pair it - and email the files to your computer.

Someone on the 6.5Grendel forum has written an open source code to convert Fit to CSV for PC's. Doesn't sound like it's fully debugged yet.

Another downside is you can't add bullet weights after you start shooting. Entering bullet weights prior to the start will add muzzle energy and Power Factors to your velocities.

As for the rifle mounts like Area 419, you don't really need to slave it to the gun. Plus the recoil will hammer it. The mounts seem like a solution looking for a problem. The supplied tripod and generous 52degree acquisition cone works for me.

This has been said many times. In the Shotview app, export the CSV file to a cloud service like Dropbox, Google Drive, Box, etc. Open on computer. It takes maybe 20 seconds. Much faster than plugging into computer or using some conversion software.

Second, mounting to a gun is not an issue. The chief engineer at Garmin who helped develop the unit was using it on his big bore ELR gun since 2020. It appears to be a non-issue.

 

[klemheist]

This has been said many times. In the Shotview app, export the CSV file to a cloud service like Dropbox, Google Drive, Box, etc. Open on computer. It takes maybe 20 seconds. Much faster than plugging into computer or using some conversion software.

Second, mounting to a gun is not an issue. The chief engineer at Garmin who helped develop the unit was using it on his big bore ELR gun since 2020. It appears to be a non-issue.

Unsure the point you are making...My point is Garmin could and should have CSV files on the radar itself, without needing the phone interface.

As for the rifle mounts, regardless of how robust the device is, why buy something you don't need.

 

[NiteQwill]

Unsure the point you are making...My point is Garmin could and should have CSV files on the radar itself, without needing the phone interface.

As for the rifle mounts, regardless of how robust the device is, why buy something you don't need.

Is this the first Garmin device you have owned? All of their devices use proprietary files.

Using a mount, for example, allows one to shoot a stage without physically moving the device.

 

[klemheist]

Is this the first Garmin device you have owned? All of their devices use proprietary files.

Using a mount, for example, allows one to shoot a stage without physically moving the device.

Thanks for making my point. Garmin could and should make available shooting data in a more useful file type - Labradar did it.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just plug the device into your computer (or Bluetooth) without needing a phone with app to convert their FIT files to something we can use? After all, Garmin's success is ultimately predicated on customer satisfaction.

Hey, if you want to run around with a radar hanging off the side, knock yourself out...and the radar.

 

[Gussers]

For those that have veteran's status, you might want to check out Basspro or Cabela's (I think they have the same policies now). I got 10% off the $599 price. It's not a lot, but every bit helps.

As for those that balk at the price... I have a buddy who seems to buy a gun every few weeks. He started griping to me about the $600 cost. I pointed out that he dropped well more than that on his last firearm purchase. Most guys will happily drop $1200 on a good pistol and well more than that on a good optic or rifle. If you reload, the Avg Velocity, ES, and SD are must-have data to effectively work up loads. The Garmin is a game-changer in this market. I have tested it with a BB gun, Bow, pistols, and rifles. It doesn't seem to miss a beat. The phone app seems to work very well too though I had one day where I had trouble getting the unit to connect to my phone. As far as I can tell, I can download a string of fire as a .csv file too, though I haven't tried it yet.

 

[Gussers]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just plug the device into your computer (or Bluetooth) without needing a phone with app to convert their FIT files to something we can use? After all, Garmin's success is ultimately predicated on customer satisfaction.

Actually, the use of your phone likely cuts down on the cost of the unit. The processing needed to drive the simple display on the unit is cheap. The data captured is probably some raw format. They use the much better processing power and capability on your phone to digest that raw data and display it in a visually appealing format. If you had to connect it to a PC, you'd not as easily use it in the field. I have my phone with me everywhere I go - pretty much.

You should be able to download each string of fire as a .csv file from your phone. Go in to the string and export as CSV to google drive, onedrive, email attachment, whatever your phone supports, then open using anything that displays spreadsheets. I notice there's no file extension, so you can add .csv to the end of the file in windows.

Here's a pic of a string from last week 4.3gr VV N320 and a 147gr plated bullet in mixed brass, for the curious. Used to be my go-to for USPSA Production division.

 

[klemheist]

Actually, the use of your phone likely cuts down on the cost of the unit. The processing needed to drive the simple display on the unit is cheap. The data captured is probably some raw format. They use the much better processing power and capability on your phone to digest that raw data and display it in a visually appealing format. If you had to connect it to a PC, you'd not as easily use it in the field. I have my phone with me everywhere I go - pretty much.

You should be able to download each string of fire as a .csv file from your phone. Go in to the string and export as CSV to google drive, onedrive, email attachment, whatever your phone supports, then open using anything that displays spreadsheets. I notice there's no file extension, so you can add .csv to the end of the file in windows.

Here's a pic of a string from last week 4.3gr VV N320 and a 147gr plated bullet in mixed brass, for the curious. Used to be my go-to for USPSA Production division.

There's a guy on 6.5Grendel forum who has written a script for converting FIT to CSV on his computer. So, plugs the Garmin to his PC and downloads the FIT files and converts.

I doubt it's a cost saving measure by Garmin. I hear they use FIT files on their other products.

Labradar's latest offering, the LX is slightly more chunky than the Garmin, same price, and has the same CSV files as their older, larger radar for directly downloading to a PC.

Yes, I am aware of how to send files from their Shotview app. I am not advocating doing away with the app on your phone, just for the more user-friendly CSV files on the Garmin itself. If LR can do it at the same price point, Garmin could too.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Finally got one of these. Very impressed. Deploying and using put the MagnetoSpeed and Labradar to shame, though having both, I would take the magnetospeed over the labradar.

This unit missed zero shots, all suppressed, no fiddle fucking with it. It simply works.

I just offered my labradar to a friend for free. Not even worth trying to sell at its current market price.

 

[RedBreast21]

Finally got one of these. Very impressed. Deploying and using put the MagnetoSpeed and Labradar to shame, though having both, I would take the magnetospeed over the labradar.

This unit missed zero shots, all suppressed, no fiddle fucking with it. It simply works.

I just offered my labradar to a friend for free. Not even worth trying to sell at its current market price.

Do you need my address and some money for shipping?

 

[ironman56]

I've had the Garmin for 6 months now and it's so much easier to use than the other chronographs I've had over the years , never got the Labrador or the magnospeed , just the optical types , three different modles , still have all three , will probably donate 2 of those to some young shooters at the local range , the biggest gain for me is with airgun tuning , used to get errors so often that it was frustrating trying to get a 10 shot string consistently, the garmin hasn't missed a shot yet , game changer for me.