Geissele Mid Range Gas Gun for the low price of $6,500

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Oh yea greedy Bill. The same guy that donates Over $10K a month in guns and gear to local matches and who just donated about $20K in gear and who knows how much else in sponsorship money/support this last weekend.

Not to mention he lets us use his mountain to shoot.

LMT, KAC, BCM, COLT, ect never donated shit to support locals.

The dude is one of the nicest, most generous people in the industry. His gear is top notch and does exactly what its designed to. If you can't afford it, no reason to sling shit out of jealously.

 

[ThatGuy1182]

It's good business to give things to a specific group on arfcom who will then go ahead and pressure and bullying folks into submit to buy Geissele. I know how this game works, sycophant gonna sycophant.

He's making his money back and then some.

Bill is being greedy and only the obtuse are not seeing it.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

It's good business to give things to a specific group on arfcom who will then go ahead and pressure and bullying folks into submit to buy Geissele. I know how this game works, sycophant gonna sycophant.

He's making his money back and then some.

Bill is being greedy and only the obtuse are not seeing it.

Are you a communist? Every company in the world exists to make money. Is he supposed to lose money to appease you and the rest of the neckbeard autistic living in their moms basement?

Don't like it, don't buy it. But to call him greedy makes you look like a petty jealous asshole.

You should log back into your real account, Its obvious you are a troll.

 

[roostercogburn98]

neckbeard

This is a very hurtful term, please refrain from using it

 

[ThatGuy1182]

Are you a communist? Every company in the world exists to make money. Is he supposed to lose money to appease you and the rest of the neckbeard autistic living in their moms basement?

Don't like it, don't buy it. But to call him greedy makes you look like a petty jealous asshole.

You should log back into your real account, Its obvious you are a troll.

Name calling? That's one logical fallacy already. Straw man argument? That's two logical fallacies. More personal attacks? Three fallacies already.

If you want to discuss this like adults we can, however if you're going to act those very things while projecting them at me then there's no point into us continuing this because your mind has already been concluded where it's now just emotion and not facts being discussed.

Never intended to buy it but last I knew this is a discussion board and when something is wrong we point it out and not be a sycophant like yourself has been. So no your narrative is false, calling him greedy is calling a spade a spade here. I can get a MARS-H and still have enough for an optic and mount. I can do a parts gun and still have a better or equal rifle for way less.

And incredulous, you trolling in here yet calling another a troll? lol, wow a fourth logical fallacy. This is my only account, genius. You just cannot get anything right about this between us.

 

[Desert_Racer]

Just to be clear, calling each other faggots is still on the table.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Name calling? That's one logical fallacy already. Straw man argument? That's two logical fallacies. More personal attacks? Three fallacies already.

If you want to discuss this like adults we can, however if you're going to act those very things while projecting them at me then there's no point into us continuing this because your mind has already been concluded where it's now just emotion and not facts being discussed.

Never intended to buy it but last I knew this is a discussion board and when something is wrong we point it out and not be a sycophant like yourself has been. So no your narrative is false, calling him greedy is calling a spade a spade here. I can get a MARS-H and still have enough for an optic and mount. I can do a parts gun and still have a better or equal rifle for way less.

And incredulous, you trolling in here yet calling another a troll? lol, wow a fourth logical fallacy. This is my only account, genius. You just cannot get anything right about this between us.

Do you know him? Have you seen his books? You know what his EBITA is?

You are calling one of the more respected men in the industry, who gives a ton back to the shooting community, greedy for no other reason than you don't like how he priced something that you CLEARLY do not understand why it costs what it costs.

If the MWS platform was so fucking good, it would have won the contract. It also would probally cost about the same ammount, if not more. The gov sets the requirements, its industries job to submit items at that price. Don't like the law, stop voting for Biden and drinking bud light.

This makes you look like an asshole and no amount of wordsmithing bullshit is going to change that,.

25 posts in 4 years and a quarter of them slamming G.

 

[anginaprinzmetal]

So is this supposed to replace the Sig Spear ? I thought the Sig Spear (or watever is called) with the new caliber was supposed to be the rifle to end all rifles

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So is this supposed to replace the Sig Spear ? I thought the Sig Spear (or watever is called) with the new caliber was supposed to be the rifle to end all rifles

Nope. This is a SOCOM solicitation for a gas SWS in 6.5CM with can. Basically a sniper system for raid teams, as there is a corresponding assaulter rifle solicitation that is still going on. This is more of a replacement for older SR25's and M110s. This will be a small fielding relative to the sig, and the higher price is commensurate with lower unit procurement to be able to recoup costs and make a little profit. If you look at the cost of a M110 deployment kit, this gun is actually way cheaper even if it is sans Optic.

The SIG spear is a replacement for the M4 in combat arms units, army wide. This includes new ammo and some other shit. This contract, if this gun actually pans out (doubt it will), will be hundreds of time larger than the Geissele rifle.

 

[anginaprinzmetal]

thanks, makes sense. Do you think SOCOM would buy in 308 or 6.5Cm ?. From a ballistic standpoint 6.5Cm would make more sense, from a logistical one .308

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

They have already been using 6.5CM for years and .260 for over a decade. They are currently testing will be selecting a 6 ARC gun in the near future. Makes alot of sense to be able to get large frame AR ballistics into a small frame AR with lower recoil, and lower weight per round. Shit moves slow, but if you track the defense announcements, they are out there.

 

[TheOE800]

The MWS being ass aside, Billy undercuts his dealers essentially every sale he has and has really unfavorable dealer terms to protect his Rolex-like image. No one’s a communist, but Billy has questionable business ethics.

MRGG-A is still unawarded? Christ only DoD could consider awarding essentially the same gun to different manufacturers…

 

[Patty]

I didn’t read this whole thread,but like a lot of you guys when I first saw the rifle online I was a bit taken back by the price. But this weekend I had the opportunity to test the MRGG extensively. We ran it against some of the best shooting bolt guns we had with us, it went shot for shot at distance with factory ammo. It blew all of us away on how consistent and accurate the rifle was. The rifle we had, had a chrome lined hammer forged barrel with over 5k rounds on it, and it was still sub half moa. It was a truly impressive rifle. There is a lot going on beneath the surface that I think could be better explained but I am not sure how much they have let out of the hat so I won’t speak to that.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I didn’t read this whole thread,but like a lot of you guys when I first saw the rifle I was a bit taken back by the price. But this weekend I had the opportunity to test the MRGG extensively. We ran it against some of the best shooting bolt guns we had with us, it went shot for shot at distance with factory ammo. It blew all of us away on how consistent and accurate the rifle was. The rifle we had, had a chrome lined hammer forged barrel with over 5k rounds on it, and it was still sub half moa. It was a truly impressive rifle. There is a lot going on beneath the surface that I think could be better explained but I am not sure how much they have let out of the hat so I won’t speak to that.

I was a squad behind you at WAR Patty. I would have loved a gasser on the WAR barricade. It was cool meeting Martin and the rest if the MDT staff guys from CA.

That match was one of the reasons why it irks me when people call Bill greedy. He gives a ton back to the sport, and doesn't have to let us shoot on his mountain. He is one of the nicest most down to earth guys and builds some amazing gear.

 

[Patty]

I was a squad behind you at WAR Patty. I would have loved a gasser on the WAR barricade. It was cool meeting Martin and the rest if the MDT staff guys from CA.

That match was one of the reasons why it irks me when people call Bill greedy. He gives a ton back to the sport, and doesn't have to let us shoot on his mountain. He is one of the nicest most down to earth guys and builds some amazing gear.

Hey man!

Yeah….
I try not to take it personally when I hear that, it’s obvious those people don’t actually know him.

He spent $20,000 on that bbq for the shooters, and you know how much he gives away at every match. And that is just what people see. Having the relationship I do with drew at WAR, I see a lot of behind the scenes things that really give me an appreciation for just how generous and kind a man he is. I don’t need to defend Bill, it’s a pleasure to know him.

 

[Patty]

Here, i threw a clip up on youtube so you guys can see it run. This was the MRGG-A

 

[SoundFx]

At SHOT earlier this year I was asking if they would make a hub mount for their muzzle device on this thing. Guy said he would bring it up with the design folks. Pretty cool rifle. I probably won’t be getting one at the price, but it seems real cool.

Hopefully they do the hub mount for their suppressor adapters. I told them more people would consider their guns if they could easily mount hub-compatible cans on them without wrestling off the muzzle devices (my Geissele sf warcomps were on TIGHT).

 

[Patty]

At SHOT earlier this year I was asking if they would make a hub mount for their muzzle device on this thing. Guy said he would bring it up with the design folks. Pretty cool rifle. I probably won’t be getting one at the price, but it seems real cool.

Hopefully they do the hub mount for their suppressor adapters. I told them more people would consider their guns if they could easily mount hub-compatible cans on them without wrestling off the muzzle devices (my Geissele sf warcomps were on TIGHT).

The pricing has a lot to do with the selection process, the govt likes to see pricing with a bunch of baked in costs like shipping etc. I would expect that when they become available to the civilian market you’ll be able to get one for less, but don’t quote me.

 

[bigjake83]

They have already been using 6.5CM for years and .260 for over a decade. They are currently testing will be selecting a 6 ARC gun in the near future. Makes alot of sense to be able to get large frame AR ballistics into a small frame AR with lower recoil, and lower weight per round. Shit moves slow, but if you track the defense announcements, they are out there.

It seems like you stay in touch regarding these topics with who's using what, as of right now what current military branches are using these rifles listed below in thier Sniper Programs? I believe it is the army that is currently fielding the Seekins?

I'm assuming the Colt M4 is still the standard issue for basic military infantry personnel, but what is currently DMR Small frame options?

Seekins SP10M
HK MR762A1
KAC SR25/SR15

 

[M4orturnate]

Damn, a few sycophants in this thread already.

Bill is being greedy, anyone not seeing that is deliberately being an obtuse apologist. If joe civ buys it on the commercial side, none of those spare parts and other .gov niceties comes with and that's a fact.

It has nothing to do with being a pOoR. But it has everything to do with calling a spade a spade,

Ever meet Bill or shoot at his range? He's anything but greedy. He routinely gives away thousands of dollars worth of gear, buys excellent lunches, lets us use the range at what im sure is a loss to himself. At the 2 day they had a truck load of blem parts I couldnt find blems on being sold cheaper then psa shit. Dude does a lot for shooting sports and the community and is generally a good guy.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Ever meet Bill or shoot at his range? He's anything but greedy. He routinely gives away thousands of dollars worth of gear, buys excellent lunches, lets us use the range at what im sure is a loss to himself. At the 2 day they had a truck load of blem parts I couldnt find blems on being sold cheaper then psa shit. Dude does a lot for shooting sports and the community and is generally a good guy.

Bill's a nice guy, but he's also a business man.

You have to realize all of prize table stuff, catered meals, and even the range where they hold matches is ultimately a write off, right? Props to Bill for building a company that's healthy enough to actually benefit from all of that, but don't just assume there's no upside for the company.

None of that is meant to disparage Bill. Some of you guys really do come off as naive and maybe a little drunk on the Kool-Aid.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Bill's a nice guy, but he's also a business man.

You have to realize all of prize table stuff, catered meals, and even the range where they hold matches is ultimately a write off, right? Props to Bill for building a company that's healthy enough to actually benefit from all of that, but don't just assume there's no upside for the company.

None of that is meant to disparage Bill. Some of you guys really do come off as naive and maybe a little drunk on the Kool-Aid.

Do you even know what a write off is? Its not free money. It just lowers your taxable income, You still have to spend the money that would otherwise stay with the company or goes in his pocket.

So he either keeps 60% and pays the gov 40% or gives away 100%.

It takes a real ignorant fuck to say someone who donates tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands in gear to shooters each year, is just doing it for tax write off. He doesn't need to let people shoot on HIS mountain. In fact, its a liabilty nightmare for him if someone got hurt.

So instead of him pocketing an extra $60K a year for himself and writing the IRS a $40K check, he gives away $100K to shooters. Explain to us how that benefits him, other that some good will and social media clout.

Look at all the gear and rifles that Colt, BCM, KAC, LMT, ect give away at matches. Oh yea, they dont give shit away. Guess they are just a bunch of fucking idiots for not getting that tax write off.

In fact, if all he cared was making money, he would sell more "blems" and write off the "loss" in sales while still turning a nice profit over his COGS. That would provide positive net revenue while reducing the tax burden.

Write offs that actually makes sense, like buying a new King Ranch F350 with company funds vs having to pay taxes on the profit, paying it as salary, then paying taxes again and buying it with post tax money. That is where being a business owner pays off, not giving away a ton of shit that is in HIGH demand that could be sold at full retail.

Make sure the next match he donates a bunch of rifles and gear to, you let him know hes only doing it for a tax write off.

Most of the Aggies I have worked with over the years are peices of shit, so at least you are keeping the tradition alive. Maybe if you went to UT, you would have learned basic tax law, economics, business management and some fucking gratitude. Some one owes you a refund.

 

[Patty]

Not to mention all of the stuff Bill does that takes time and effort and not just money. But you can’t expect anyone who doesn’t spend any amount of time up there to understand or see that. I’ve got no problem with folks having opinions on what they think goes on, but to call the people who have direct experience up there naive, is pretty ironic.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Do you even know what a write off is? Its not free money. It just lowers your taxable income, You still have to spend the money that would otherwise stay with the company or goes in his pocket.

So he either keeps 60% and pays the gov 40% or gives away 100%.

It takes a real ignorant fuck to say someone who donates tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands in gear to shooters each year, is just doing it for tax write off. He doesn't need to let people shoot on HIS mountain. In fact, its a liabilty nightmare for him if someone got hurt.

So instead of him pocketing an extra $60K a year for himself and writing the IRS a $40K check, he gives away $100K to shooters. Explain to us how that benefits him, other that some good will and social media clout.

Look at all the gear and rifles that Colt, BCM, KAC, LMT, ect give away at matches. Oh yea, they dont give shit away. Guess they are just a bunch of fucking idiots for not getting that tax write off.

In fact, if all he cared was making money, he would sell more "blems" and write off the "loss" in sales while still turning a nice profit over his COGS. That would provide positive net revenue while reducing the tax burden.

Write offs that actually makes sense, like buying a new King Ranch F350 with company funds vs having to pay taxes on the profit, paying it as salary, then paying taxes again and buying it with post tax money. That is where being a business owner pays off, not giving away a ton of shit that is in HIGH demand that could be sold at full retail.

Make sure the next match he donates a bunch of rifles and gear to, you let him know hes only doing it for a tax write off.

Most of the Aggies I have worked with over the years are peices of shit, so at least you are keeping the tradition alive. Maybe if you went to UT, you would have learned basic tax law, economics, business management and some fucking gratitude. Some one owes you a refund.

You sound like one really miserable human being.

Hey, if nothing else he's got you on here showing everyone what a real Geissele fanboy is like. Pretty good bang for his buck....lol

 

[Patty]

Good one.

Let’s keep it on topic guys. If you want to go make a thread about taxes, bill, and how upset any combination of those things makes you. I’m sure there is somewhere else for it.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Good one.

Let’s keep it on topic guys. If you want to go make a thread about taxes, bill, and how upset any combination of those things makes you. I’m sure there is somewhere else for it.

Fine by me.

The barrel on the Joy really is something to be proud of (a hammer forged chamber, chrome lined, and accurate for the entire 5k round service life in a 6.5 creed…wow!). I feel like it’s at least on par with the leap forward that Bill’s original triggers represented.

Here’s hoping they eventually offer a large frame gun to the civilian market with the same barrel, but ideally different enough from the MRGG contract rifle that it’s exempt from the pricing restrictions.

 

[AngryKoala]

You sound like one really miserable human being.

Hey, if nothing else he's got you on here showing everyone what a real Geissele fanboy is like. Pretty good bang for his buck....lol

His superduties were nice before the QC issues and price hike. Probably wouldn't grab another at the current price.

To the guy calling Bill greedy.....every company is greedy. How much do you think it cost KAC to make an SR15?

Could be a nice rifle at the right price if there aren't any massive QC issues.

 

[hlee]

Do you even know what a write off is? Its not free money. It just lowers your taxable income, You still have to spend the money that would otherwise stay with the company or goes in his pocket.

So he either keeps 60% and pays the gov 40% or gives away 100%.

It takes a real ignorant fuck to say someone who donates tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands in gear to shooters each year, is just doing it for tax write off. He doesn't need to let people shoot on HIS mountain. In fact, its a liabilty nightmare for him if someone got hurt.

So instead of him pocketing an extra $60K a year for himself and writing the IRS a $40K check, he gives away $100K to shooters. Explain to us how that benefits him, other that some good will and social media clout.

Look at all the gear and rifles that Colt, BCM, KAC, LMT, ect give away at matches. Oh yea, they dont give shit away. Guess they are just a bunch of fucking idiots for not getting that tax write off.

In fact, if all he cared was making money, he would sell more "blems" and write off the "loss" in sales while still turning a nice profit over his COGS. That would provide positive net revenue while reducing the tax burden.

Write offs that actually makes sense, like buying a new King Ranch F350 with company funds vs having to pay taxes on the profit, paying it as salary, then paying taxes again and buying it with post tax money. That is where being a business owner pays off, not giving away a ton of shit that is in HIGH demand that could be sold at full retail.

Make sure the next match he donates a bunch of rifles and gear to, you let him know hes only doing it for a tax write off.

Most of the Aggies I have worked with over the years are peices of shit, so at least you are keeping the tradition alive. Maybe if you went to UT, you would have learned basic tax law, economics, business management and some fucking gratitude. Some one owes you a refund.

That’s a lot of text. I’ll just comment that $100k is cheap in terms of marketing and advertising.

Write off, advertising, marketing, other. Doesn’t really matter. Geissele is enough of a businessman that we can assume that he is smart enough to find a business purpose for every dollar spent on and donation made to shooting sports.

Everyone else?

 

[hlee]

As to the point about giving away $100k in prizes for $40k in tax savings not working out mathematically- let’s also remember that his total investment in that $100k of goods is certainly less than the value of the write off. Again, we are working on the assumption that Geissele is a good business man and/or has competent accountants doing his books.

 

[GUNNER10]

LoL...

Seems to be an emotional topic...

I think at this point, most of the large frame gas guns are really good these days and you are really splitting straws trying to decide which one is best. Alot of this is going to be a combination of test data, end user feedback, and price.

My only observation, is that 6500 seems comically high.

HK's run around 4k
LMT run around 3.5k
KAC run around 5k if available.
Seekins run around 3k
Scar Mk20's run around 4k
Sig Spear, 4k

While I own LMT and KAC large frame AR's, I really don't feel my KAC is worth the premium over my LMT's. I am sure the Geisssele is a shooter, but I just can't do 6.5k for a gas gun. Now, this very well could be an introductory price like Sig did with their Spear when in came out. If it drops in price to that 4k range, I would check one out.

 

[Downtown]

LoL...

Seems to be an emotional topic...

I think at this point, most of the large frame gas guns are really good these days and you are really splitting straws trying to decide which one is best. Alot of this is going to be a combination of test data, end user feedback, and price.

My only observation, is that 6500 seems comically high.

HK's run around 4k
LMT run around 3.5k
KAC run around 5k if available.
Seekins run around 3k
Scar Mk20's run around 4k
Sig Spear, 4k

While I own LMT and KAC large frame AR's, I really don't feel my KAC is worth the premium over my LMT's. I am sure the Geisssele is a shooter, but I just can't do 6.5k for a gas gun. Now, this very well could be an introductory price like Sig did with their Spear when in came out. If it drops in price to that 4k range, I would check one out.

Remember, that price is the government contract price, usually has a bunch of baked in costs, shipping, spare parts, etc.

 

[GUNNER10]

Remember, that price is the government contract price, usually has a bunch of baked in costs, shipping, spare parts, etc.

To an extent yes, but I am simply referring to the price listed on their commercial website, it just feels high for what it is. It just feels like for that number, the rifle really should be running a carbon fiber barrel and start approaching 556 guns in terms of weight.

I would be more interested into seeing how they did there bolt and gas system.

 

[Patty]

To an extent yes, but I am simply referring to the price listed on their commercial website, it just feels high for what it is. It just feels like for that number, the rifle really should be running a carbon fiber barrel and start approaching 556 guns in terms of weight.

I would be more interested into seeing how they did there bolt and gas system.

This is a perfect example of how you can’t please everyone. I personally would not want anything like what you’re describing in a mid to long range gas gun platform.

 

[AngryKoala]

To an extent yes, but I am simply referring to the price listed on their commercial website, it just feels high for what it is. It just feels like for that number, the rifle really should be running a carbon fiber barrel and start approaching 556 guns in terms of weight.

I would be more interested into seeing how they did there bolt and gas system.

That's why I am interested in the Steyr dmr, not sure when if ever it will hit our shores though.

 

[GUNNER10]

This is a perfect example of how you can’t please everyone. I personally would not want anything like what you’re describing in a mid to long range gas gun platform.

I'm just saying most copy and paste jobs dont come in priced over the original as most of the leg work was already done.

For example, sig made a large frame ar18 that can operate at 80k PSI and is selling those for 4k.

Nothing about the geisselle large frame DI screams 1500 dollars better than the gun that was 1500 dollars more expensive than its peers.

I'm sure it's a good rifle, but nothing about really stands out for the price point.

I would the say the same thing about a Denali 2500 truck. Ita nice, but not sure if it's 100k nice.

 

[Patty]

I'm just saying most copy and paste jobs dont come in priced over the original as most of the leg work was already done.

For example, sig made a large frame ar18 that can operate at 80k PSI and is selling those for 4k.

Nothing about the geisselle large frame DI screams 1500 dollars better than the gun that was 1500 dollars more expensive than its peers.

I'm sure it's a good rifle, but nothing about really stands out for the price point.

I would the say the same thing about a Denali 2500 truck. Ita nice, but not sure if it's 100k nice.

I’m not sure what you mean by copy and paste, how much time have you spent with it?

 

[GUNNER10]

That's why I am interested in the Steyr dmr, not sure when if ever it will hit our shores though.

The Steyr looks nice.

There is a lot of really good stuff out there these days. I am personally interested in anybody can do anything with the hi-pressure 277/6.8x51. Neat concept, especially for reloading.

6ARC's are even getting interesting.

 

[AngryKoala]

The Steyr looks nice.

There is a lot of really good stuff out there these days. I am personally interested in anybody can do anything with the hi-pressure 277/6.8x51. Neat concept, especially for reloading.

6ARC's are even getting interesting.

If they can come in at 3k (doubtful) they will corner the market (assuming no QC/design issues).

Definitely going to have to reload until it (if) gets wider adoption.

 

[GUNNER10]

I’m not sure what you mean by copy and paste, how much time have you spent with it?

How much time do you need to spend with it. Good, large frame, DI, AR's with 20 inch 6.5CM barrels have been done for years.

 

[GUNNER10]

If they can come in at 3k (doubtful) they will corner the market (assuming no QC/design issues).

Definitely going to have to reload until it (if) gets wider adoption.

Who knows.

3k to 4k is where most of this stuff falls in pricing. I would place in between the Swiss APC 308 and HK MR762. in terms of cornering the market, it really comes down to support.

LMT does really well because spare barrels, uppers and lowers are actually available.
AI does very well in bolt guns for much of the same reason.
Barret is going down this path.

when you are spending this type of money on this stuff, you are really buying a system, and ultimately it really comes down to what type of support you are going to get. This is part of the reason that I have sort of lost interest in my KAC and my SR25. For example. They make awesome cans, but like most of gear, unless you are Neo and plugged into the Matrix, you are probably not going to be able to track one down, and you are probably less likely to be able to find spare mounts for their wondercan.

I don't think it's acceptable to be charged a substantial premium and have to source parts from gun broker.

 

[Patty]

How much time do you need to spend with it. Good, large frame, DI, AR's with 20 inch 6.5CM barrels have been done for years.

So zero time. Got it.

It’s not a new platform by any means, but there is a lot of proprietary work, and I am confident that anyone who has spent actual time with it will come a bit closer to understanding the price tag (even though that figure is tailored to the selection process)

 

[AngryKoala]

Who knows.

3k to 4k is where most of this stuff falls in pricing. I would place in between the Swiss APC 308 and HK MR762. in terms of cornering the market, it really comes down to support.

LMT does really well because spare barrels, uppers and lowers are actually available.
AI does very well in bolt guns for much of the same reason.
Barret is going down this path.

when you are spending this type of money on this stuff, you are really buying a system, and ultimately it really comes down to what type of support you are going to get. This is part of the reason that I have sort of lost interest in my KAC and my SR25. For example. They make awesome cans, but like most of gear, unless you are Neo and plugged into the Matrix, you are probably not going to be able to track one down, and you are probably less likely to be able to find spare mounts for their wondercan.

I don't think it's acceptable to be charged a substantial premium and have to source parts from gun broker.

It is Steyr so support like different barrel lengths, calibers ect will probably not be easy to come by. I'm basing this off of availability of different AUG barrels, parts ect.

I think the only competition this will have (primarily) is the Scar. The HK and LMT are heavy, KAC is expensive as shit, Larue is gay, B&T tried to compete with FN but their gun is heavier (was more expensive) and availability wasn't great.

 

[GUNNER10]

So zero time. Got it.

It’s not a new platform by any means, but there is a lot of proprietary work, and I am confident that anyone who has spent actual time with it will come a bit closer to understanding the price tag (even though that figure is tailored to the selection process)

Thats not the unit price per the contract.

That's the price that's on the website to add one to cart.

If anybody can articulate what the giesselle does better than say a LMT,KAC,Seeking, or GAP. I'm all ears.

If I had to guess, all down selects performed comparably but geissele submitted the best proposal.

 

[Jsp556]

If anybody can articulate what the giesselle does better than say a LMT,KAC,Seeking, or GAP. I'm all ears.

Super…

Super Chrome Lining is immune from throat erosion. Super Hammer Forging makes a more uniform bore than FN or DD’s rotary hammers. Super Etc….

This is just the Geissele guys’ turn to tout their brand as best.

Good on Geissele for winning a contract. At least it wasn’t HK or Sig.

 

[GUNNER10]

Super…

Super Chrome Lining is immune from throat erosion. Super Hammer Forging makes a more uniform bore than FN or DD’s rotary hammers. Super Etc….

This is just the Geissele guys’ turn to tout their brand as best.

Good on Geissele for winning a contract. At least it wasn’t HK or Sig.

LoL...

I agree, good for them. they make good stuff. I think more options in the large frame AR world is a good thing. My only critic is that the current commercial price seems high. Not that the rifle does not perform well.

I would even offer the same criticism towards Knights, and I own a SR25. My world view has shifted over the years, as 5 to 10 years ago, you really only had a couple options for, modern, precision/mil oriented 308 gas guns.

I think I paid around 4200 for my SR25, which was around a 1500 dollar premium over my MWS. I felt at the time, that the ACC was a product improved 308 gas gun, that offered great reliability, weight savings, less recoil, and good accuracy. I felt i got something tangible for that premium.

Fast forward to today, and ACC(14.5CC) uppers, are retailing for the same amount that I paid for a complete rifle 3 years ago. yes, I understand inflation. But when the Germans, can import a 308 gas gun built with kraut space magic for less than price of a KAC upper, I no long think that this is an inflation issue as so much as a Rolex business model to artificially create a market of scarcity and increase profits per unit. There is nothing wrong with that model.

The Swiss, you know the home of the 50 dollar cheeseburger and 4000 dollar AK's, import 308 gas guns for less than the price of a KAC upper.

So it all goes back to what are you getting for that premium. At a 5800, I don't think the KAC, with no optic, offers any advantage over say a B&T APC 308 DMR, an FN Mk20, or LMT MWS DMR, or HK MR762 with optic.

The same thing applies to the geiselle MRGG at 6500. If the MRGG offers some tangible advantage over the rest of the field, I would consider dumping my SR25 and picking one up, based on product support alone.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Let's start with barrels.

Lmt cut rifle 6.5cm barrel is probally good good for 2500 before you need to pull it due to accuracy degradation and/or velocity loss. They run $700ish per. The new g barrels will last atleast 2-3 times as long while still holding half moa, something lmt cannot even guarantee on a new barrel with factory ammo.

Start adding up replacement barrel costs and the price gap shrinks. And that is not even getting into the other improved areas of the gun like the can,ect.

It's easy to make a bunch of assumptions when you have no experience with the gun nor understand how gov solicitations work.

 

[Jsp556]

Let's start with barrels.

Lmt cut rifle 6.5cm barrel is probally good good for 2500 before you need to pull it due to accuracy degradation and/or velocity loss. They run $700ish per. The new g barrels will last atleast 2-3 times as long while still holding half moa, something lmt cannot even guarantee on a new barrel with factory ammo.

Start adding up replacement barrel costs and the price gap shrinks. And that is not even getting into the other improved areas of the gun like the can,ect.

It's easy to make a bunch of assumptions when you have no experience with the gun nor understand how gov solicitations work.

So what’s your experience with it? You saw it run at a match? Shot it? Tested it over several thousand rounds? Went over Bills confidential testing data?

Bill said himself that the barrel was a hammerforged, chrome lined, 4150 CMV. That’s special? Seems standard for DD and FN

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Fine by me.

The barrel on the Joy really is something to be proud of (a hammer forged chamber, chrome lined, and accurate for the entire 5k round service life in a 6.5 creed…wow!). I feel like it’s at least on par with the leap forward that Bill’s original triggers represented.

Here’s hoping they eventually offer a large frame gun to the civilian market with the same barrel, but ideally different enough from the MRGG contract rifle that it’s exempt from the pricing restrictions.

Hell... hopefully these barrels themselves are offered for public consumption/sold separately!

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

That's why I am interested in the Steyr dmr, not sure when if ever it will hit our shores though.

Can you link a article to what Steyr you're talking about sir? Very interested to see what they're bringing to the market...
Sako was supposedly doing a large frame DMR-style build as well in the near term future, no?

POTD: New Sako M23 DMR with Steiner M7Xi 2.9-20x50 -

Sako M23 DMR for the Finnish Defence Force. AR style and chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO. It has a short-stroke gas piston system.

www.thefirearmblog.com

Interesting times ahead, no doubt!

 

[Patty]

Personally the most interesting thing to me with the MRGG is the changes to feeding geometry that keeps bullets from getting damaged during the process. If anyone’s ever used a gas gun for precision then you know the tendencies to throw fliers. And in their testing data, that was the leading cause. I spent a whole day with the thing and every round landed where it was supposed to, sub moa, with factory ammo. It was impressive. Whats that is worth to you is your choice, but at matches these days, the whole thing is won or lost by a point or two so to me it is worth the price of admission considering I’ll spend 1/5 the price of a gun, in travel, lodging, ammo and match fees to go to a match.