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Rifle Scopes Glass for 338LM

sierracharlie338

sierracharlie338

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Full Member
Minuteman
    • Mar 12, 2013
    1,225
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    Republic of Texas (Houston)
    That's right needing some suggestions on glass for my new 338 bolt action rifle. Will be mostly for murdering steel that's a long ways off (hopefully out to a mile). A couple I am looking at are:

    Vortex 4-27 Gen 2
    NF ATACR 5-25 FFP
    Used S&B 5-25

    I'm trying to stay around or under 2500 (with applicable discounts) so I can buy more reloading stuff.

    If you have experience with a specific optic or power at long distances (past 1000) that might also be helpful insight you could relay.

    What say you??





    Sierracharlie338....
     
    The advantages of the NF ATACR F1 5-25x56:

    1. Flawless tracking. When measured at Gunsite's XLR class on their surveyed 100 yard range, mine tracked perfectly through 25 mils of elevation - precisely 90 inches. My NF did better than the other S&B's in the class, I might add. They each had a minor correction to input into their FFS software.

    2. 34.9 mils of elevation. A big deal when shooting XLR. I had more elevation available to me than the other kids in the class. We shot to 2200 yards and I did not need to "hold over".

    3. Childproof. I haven't broken one yet. I have almost lost the two screws with rubber O-ring that secure the elevation turret. Do be careful there!

    IMG_5653.jpg
     
    MSTN said:
    The advantages of the NF ATACR F1 5-25x56:

    1. Flawless tracking. When measured at Gunsite's XLR class on their surveyed 100 yard range, mine tracked perfectly through 25 mils of elevation - precisely 90 inches. My NF did better than the other S&B's in the class, I might add. They each had a minor correction to input into their FFS software.

    2. 34.9 mils of elevation. A big deal when shooting XLR. I had more elevation available to me than the other kids in the class. We shot to 2200 yards and I did not need to "hold over".

    3. Childproof. I haven't broken one yet. I have almost lost the two screws with rubber O-ring that secure the elevation turret. Do be careful there!

    IMG_5653.jpg
    Click to expand...

    MSTN, how much base were you running?
     
    Palmetto-Pride said:
    Since your going to be stretching it a bit I would maybe pony up a little more and consider the new NF 7-35 ATACR.....JMO
    Click to expand...

    Ok so since you suggested it, how much of that zoom range would I actually be able to use as compared to the 5-25?

    I'm in Texas where it's hot as hell the majority of the year, would the high zoom be a wash over the 5-25 with the bad mirage? I've never shot with anything that high of power to know.











    I went to Barrett.
     
    MSTN said:
    The advantages of the NF ATACR F1 5-25x56:

    1. Flawless tracking. When measured at Gunsite's XLR class on their surveyed 100 yard range, mine tracked perfectly through 25 mils of elevation - precisely 90 inches. My NF did better than the other S&B's in the class, I might add. They each had a minor correction to input into their FFS software.

    2. 34.9 mils of elevation. A big deal when shooting XLR. I had more elevation available to me than the other kids in the class. We shot to 2200 yards and I did not need to "hold over".

    3. Childproof. I haven't broken one yet. I have almost lost the two screws with rubber O-ring that secure the elevation turret. Do be careful there!

    IMG_5653.jpg
    Click to expand...

    Great looking rig! Huge fan of that chassis. Your opinion is the way I was leaning to be honest but wanted some others opinions on it.









    I went to Barrett.
     
    sierracharlie338 said:
    Ok so since you suggested it, how much of that zoom range would I actually be able to use as compared to the 5-25?

    I'm in Texas where it's hot as hell the majority of the year, would the high zoom be a wash over the 5-25 with the bad mirage? I've never shot with anything that high of power to know.











    I went to Barrett.
    Click to expand...

    I have a 5-25 ATACR F1 and a Razor Gen2 4-27 I live and shoot in South Carolina where it also gets hotter than hell along with enough humidity to steam shrimp in the middle of the day....lol When the sun starts getting hot and high yes you got to back off the zoom even with a 5-25 at 600yds, but early in the morning and late in the evening I can zoom in max power. The furthest I have access to shoot is 1000yds and it's with either a 308 or 6.5CM so I cant really speak for further than that, but I assume with that 338LM you will be stretching out a little further maybe. To your question I would guess with little to no mirage you could use all of the zoom range in the 7-35 and it would be like anything else "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"
     
    Palmetto-Pride said:
    I have a 5-25 ATACR F1 and a Razor Gen2 4-27 I live and shoot in South Carolina where it also gets hotter than hell along with enough humidity to steam shrimp in the middle of the day....lol When the sun starts getting hot and high yes you got to back off the zoom even with a 5-25 at 600yds, but early in the morning and late in the evening I can zoom in max power. The furthest I have access to shoot is 1000yds and it's with either a 308 or 6.5CM so I cant really speak for further than that, but I assume with that 338LM you will be stretching out a little further maybe. To your question I would guess with little to no mirage you could use all of the zoom range in the 7-35 and it would be like anything else "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"
    Click to expand...

    I am all for the "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it" scenario, hence the 338 LM purchase ;) but don't tell the wife HAHAHA. I will have to look into the 7-35 and see where it lands price wise compared to the 5-25. Decisions decisions . . .
     
    Take a look at the NF 7-35 beforehand if you can. A friend has one with the Mil-r reticle and it's pretty thick (compared to a Razor G2 anyway) at full power, covers alot of target at elr distances. If you could get one with the newer Mil-C reticle, that'd be the way to go I think. I shoot a Razor G2 out to 2500 yds and it does fine but I like the extra elevation travel the NF has.
     
    I'd buy a S&B 5-25 from mile high for $2,500 if they still have them. I'm in the vortex gen 2 camp with the 4.5-27x56. It's hard to believe there is better glass than it has. If the S&B deal was around when I purchased mine it would have been a no brainer for the S&B!

    With that said, I would like to look through a 7-35x56 Nightforce.
     
    MSTN said:
    The advantages of the NF ATACR F1 5-25x56:

    1. Flawless tracking. When measured at Gunsite's XLR class on their surveyed 100 yard range, mine tracked perfectly through 25 mils of elevation - precisely 90 inches. My NF did better than the other S&B's in the class, I might add. They each had a minor correction to input into their FFS software.

    IMG_5653.jpg
    Click to expand...

    I'm sure that NF can track just as accurately as SB, and that in your particular sample perhaps did even better. But one should not draw the conclusion that NF tracks better than SB as a whole based on that. Generally speaking, SBs tracking is as good as it gets.
     
    vh20 said:
    I'm sure that NF can track just as accurately as SB, and that in your particular sample perhaps did even better. But one should not draw the conclusion that NF tracks better than SB as a whole based on that. Generally speaking, SBs tracking is as good as it gets.
    Click to expand...

    You are correct in that my scope represents merely one data point. But the lead instructor told me in plain language that NF scopes typically exhibited flawless tracking in their testing.
     
    Palmetto-Pride said:
    Since your going to be stretching it a bit I would maybe pony up a little more and consider the new NF 7-35 ATACR.....JMO
    Click to expand...

    The NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 has 35 mils of elevation.

    The new NF ATACR F1 7-35x56 has just 27.3 mils of elevation.

    For the type of long range application you envision, I wonder if the greater elevation available might not serve you better than an extra 10X of magnification.
     
    MSTN said:
    You are correct in that my scope represents merely one data point. But the lead instructor told me in plain language that NF scopes typically exhibited flawless tracking in their testing.
    Click to expand...

    I have a buddy who did have to send his NXS back to Nightforce because it wasn't tracking right when tested. That is just one scope from an older production. As far as the Travel in the scopes, that's what built in MOA into the rail and or mount is for to combat that so you can use all that travel effectively out to distance while having a 100y zero.
     
    Fursniper said:
    Take a look at the NF 7-35 beforehand if you can. A friend has one with the Mil-r reticle and it's pretty thick (compared to a Razor G2 anyway) at full power, covers alot of target at elr distances.
    Click to expand...

    Is there any proof that it is thicker than the Mil-R in the 5-25, or are you forgetting the fact that the reticle always covers the same size target regardless of the magnification in a FFP optic?
     
    SRPowah said:
    Is there any proof that it is thicker than the Mil-R in the 5-25, or are you forgetting the fact that the reticle always covers the same size target regardless of the magnification in a FFP optic?
    Click to expand...

    No, not forgetting & I don't know if it's any thicker than a 5-25 in its design, I haven't looked up the reticle specs. I wasn't addressing that particular scope (the 5-25) It may well be that the 5-25 & the 7-35 cover the same amount of target at max or not, I wasn't looking through both for a comparison that day. All I'm saying is that I was quite surprised how much of a 10" target at 1k was covered by the 7-35 when compared with my razor which has a much thinner reticle. Granted, at lower powers the NF reticle is more useful I think as the Razor reticle almost "disappears" at the lower end of the magnification range but then most are not using these types of scopes on LR rifles at the lower powers anyway. A couple of weeks later I had opportunity to look through a 5-25 at distance with the new Mil-C reticle. There aren't many of these out yet so it was a great opportunity. Due to its configuration with the center dot/open center area it was much more pleasant to look through and appeared to me at the same target at 1k that more target was visable and was easier to "orient" on the target than with the 7-35. As I understand it from friends, the Mil-C will (or possibly already is) be available on the 7-35 soon. Based on what I've seen, if I was going to buy a 7-35, I'd want one with the Mil-C reticle. In fact, shooting friends I know are selling their NF's with the Mil-r to replace their scopes with the new reticle. My recommendation to the op would be to pick up a 7-35 if he's leaning that way, with the newer reticle if it available.
     
    MSTN said:
    You are correct in that my scope represents merely one data point. But the lead instructor told me in plain language that NF scopes typically exhibited flawless tracking in their testing.
    Click to expand...

    I was not saying that your scope isn't typical for NF. I really wasn't talking about it at all. I'm saying that if the SBs weren't tracking, THAT is NOT typical. They set the standard for flawless tracking.
     
    SRPowah said:
    No problem, it just appeared like you stated the 7-35 was thicker than the 5-25 when the real issue is the Mil-R itself. I am about to purchase a 5-25 Mil-C, and hope that the 7-35 doesn't show up too quickly!
    Click to expand...

    Guys I had a 5-25 NF BEAST with the MIL-R I recently sold it and got the NF ATACR 5-25 with the MIL-C and to me the MIL-C seems finer than the MIL-R at all magnification levels (5-25) because it is. Look at he spec sheets for both reticles paticualry spec B

    http://www.nightforceoptics.com/sites/default/files/reticles/NFO_MILRsheet_20160114.pdf
    http://www.nightforceoptics.com/sites/default/files/NFO_Mil-C_20161220.pdf
     
    Palmetto-Pride said:
    Guys I had a 5-25 NF BEAST with the MIL-R I recently sold it and got the NF ATACR 5-25 with the MIL-C and to me the MIL-C seems finer than the MIL-R at all magnification levels (5-25) because it is. Look at he spec sheets for both reticles paticualry spec B

    http://www.nightforceoptics.com/sites/default/files/reticles/NFO_MILRsheet_20160114.pdf
    http://www.nightforceoptics.com/sites/default/files/NFO_Mil-C_20161220.pdf
    Click to expand...

    Thanks Palmetto, you nailed that one down. With the finer reticle and the open dot, the Mil-C is a definate improvement. Now they just need to put it in the 7-35!
     
    MSTN said:
    The NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 has 35 mils of elevation.

    The new NF ATACR F1 7-35x56 has just 27.3 mils of elevation.

    For the type of long range application you envision, I wonder if the greater elevation available might not serve you better than an extra 10X of magnification.
    Click to expand...

    Hmm didn't realize the 7-35 has so much less elevation. Anyone else a little put off by that?
     
    FlashAndPoof said:
    Hmm didn't realize the 7-35 has so much less elevation. Anyone else a little put off by that?
    Click to expand...

    I was surprised by it, because obviously one would think your going to be using a 7-35 for ELR which requires more elavation, but I am sure NF engineers had to design it that way for some reason with the extra 10x as compared to the 5-25. I am sure with the right base and one piece type mount (SPUHR) it can be overcome.
     
    I would vote for a NEW S&B 5-25. In the last few months, there have been a ton of deals on both Optics Planet and Mile High selling the 5-25 in the 2200-2300 range. That is incredible value.
     
    NF looks to have understated the elevation on the 7-35. My NF 7-35 is mounted on a 30moa base and I get 26.3 mils of elevation. Plenty for my load to get out to a mile and just enough to get to about 2000yards without holding over.
     
    hk dave said:
    NF looks to have understated the elevation on the 7-35. My NF 7-35 is mounted on a 30moa base and I get 26.3 mils of elevation. Plenty for my load to get out to a mile and just enough to get to about 2000yards without holding over.
    Click to expand...


    That's good to know! Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense lol.
    What caliber you pairing it with? 338 Lapua?
     
    Prices on the older S&Bs have come down a lot recently. The $2200-2300 usually come with reticles most of us dislike or CW turrets.

    Interestingly, I believe P4F CCW are coming in around $2600 or so? Suddenly, the 5-25 PMII has become interesting again. :)
     
    I have a 5-25 ATACR with Mil R on my 300 WM. I looked at the Mil C but for me the thing is too busy. Same reason I would never consider a Horus. But that is of course my preference, as well as spending my dollars for stuff made in USA.
     
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