Sidearms & Scatterguns (Go to) fixed blade

[madppcs]

Ok, so Ive previously settled on a TOPS Windrunner. I figured that would be my only fixed blade Id carry with me. I really do love that knife, but what I didnt know was that Id have to keep it oiled or it rusts. Im no knife expert or steel expert, so I didnt know the right questions to ask myself. And didnt take something like rust through field use into consideration. I figured knives at that level are made of steel that wont rust in humidity or getting blood on it.

I sharpen all my knives on a Worksharp Ken onion edition, so whatever type of edge profile that is, thats what will be used. (I havent studied edge geometry). So it looks like my TOPS windrunner will be taking a 2nd place to a new fixed blade that will be used for long weekend hunts, and camping.

I really love my windrunner and TOPS seems to be a great company, but I dont want a knife that will literally spot rust overnight in areas that have moisture or blood on the blade. And honestly Im not gonna carry more gear to treat a knife in the field and have to constantly check it to see if there are wet spots on it. I just expect to sharpen it, thats it.

Extra stabby pic on a farmers worst nightmare after many hits with 2 308s and a 300Blk

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Let it slow rust patina. It is just iron on the surface.

 

[squirrelsniper]

I don't know very much about the TOPS Windrunner, but many of the highest quality survival and tactical knives are made from 1095 carbon steel, which will indeed rust if not oiled regularly. My ESEE 6 is the same way on the non-coated part of the blade (edge and logo). 1095 is a very durable yet easy to sharpen steel, and it is not brittle like some of the harder steels, and that is why it's used for many high-quality knives.

Personally, my "wet conditions" and "treat it like crap" knife is a SOG SEAL Pup as it's made of AUS 8 stainless (and made in China if that bothers you). It is absolutely nowhere the quality of my ESEE 6, but it is very light and doesn't rust.

 

[Alabusa]

Mora knives can't be beat. Cheap and durable. The scandi grind edge is easy to sharpen and holds an edge well.

 

[Fishin6061]

Mora knives can't be beat. Cheap and durable. The scandi grind edge is easy to sharpen and holds an edge well.

Agreed 100%. Hard to beat. Love the orange ones that can be seen in the boat or truck. Sometimes they are in same too!

 

[bourbonbent]

Okay, some quick bullet points about steels used in knives.

Any carbon steel will rust. Period. Without a surface treatment to inhibit rust, it’s no different than a bare, unblued chrome moly rifle barrel or action in the white. It’s gonna rust. Some faster than others.

Stainless steels, as a general rule, are mostly rust resistant. Note I didn’t say rust proof. ANY steel can corrode. If it has iron in the composition, and carbon, it has the potential to rust.

The best course of action to prevent rust, is wiping it down after use. Nothing special, I just use a pant leg or anything handy. When I think about it, I’ll put a coat of food grade mineral oil on one.

Finish level also plays a role. A true polish job, not burnishing, where the surface finish has been cleaned to 2k+ grit and is free of any visible scratches with the naked eye, will rust slower than the same knife with an off the grinder finish. The problem, is that there’s only one way to finish a knife like that, and that’s with an enormous amount of time and physical energy to polish it, or hand sand as most call it. Burnishing is not polishing, and polished steel is not mirror like. Buffing and “polishing” to a mirror finish is a good way to go as well, but the terms are not describing the same thing, and I wanted to mention that before going forward.

Many stainless steels suffer poor edge retention and durability for a variety of reasons. Using a quality stainless like CPM154 or AEB-L, and an excellent heat treat, with a good level of polish or hand sanding (even 400 grit is more than enough on these steels, I literally leave mine in my pocket when wade fishing rivers and don’t dry it afterwards), will result in a knife that is very hard to get to corrode.

Parkerizing is an option for carbon steels, and for very few carbon steels, so is meloniting/QPQ. Parkerizing must be done correctly and carefully, the microporous structure created during the manganese phosphate finishing process relies on trapping and retaining oil or grease to combat oxidization. Choosing the correct, and safe oil/grease that will not turn rancid, or contaminate meat is important.

Hope something in there was useful, if I was unclear or you would like further clarification on anything specific, let me know and I will answer to the best of my knowledge and experience.

 

[gnochi]

Personally, my "wet conditions" and "treat it like crap" knife is a SOG SEAL Pup as it's made of AUS 8 stainless (and made in China if that bothers you). It is absolutely nowhere the quality of my ESEE 6, but it is very light and doesn't rust.

My Seal Pup is still in great shape 15 years after I bought it, and it’s been used to pry and cut all sorts of things. I’ve never had it slip with wet/greasy/bbq-sauce-covered hands either.

Lately I’ve also been using a Sutton Blades Chickadee, which is a lot more handy, American made, and gorgeous, but is lacking in wet grip.

 

[antithesis]

Do some research on S30V steel and its corrosion resistant (not corrosion proof) properties. I have a 3 blade set made from it. Best I have ever owned.

 

[Sutherlandsd]

I have a TOPS Scandi Trekker (amazing little knife btw...) that rusts when you look at it, I just take a little steel wool to it and continue on with it.

 

[jmb1911]

Lot's of good info in this thread already.

I prefer S30V for a good outdoors blade that I want to remain sharp and be rust resistant. S30V would be my baseline for toughness, stain resistance, and edge retention. I love carbon and tool steel blades for toughness but they're less rust resistant.

I use 3V, Carbon, and 154 CM blades a fair bit outdoors. Each can get the job done. I've used M4, 1095, D2, BD1, H1, S35VN and a ton more with good results.

If you want nearly rustproof you're going to have to settle for H1 (I know there are others, but that's the one I know) and not many people do H1 in their blades because it's difficult to machine properly.

What you're probably wanting is a high quality stainless fixed blade with a coating of some sort to further inhibit oxidation. Benchmade (which I won't buy) make several hunting options in S30V that fit the bill of what you're looking for.

There are many many good options out there.

 

[huntsman22]

I'm going to go to this one, this year... Mike Miller stag lite hunter cpm 154

 

[OverWatching]

Big fan of my Benchmade Nimravus. Had one issued to me a long time ago and it has done everything very well. I wouldn't treat it like I do my Esee, but it's great.

 

[uncle_smokey]

If you can find one in the secondary market, take a look at the Ritter RSK Mk3. That is my go to for camping and general field use. S30V and sharp as hell.

 

[Healy]

The case USMC knife is well made at a great price

 

[Bigfatcock]

Randall model 15

 

[RTH1800]

Left to right.
Randall Triathlete
Modified Vietnam era Randall 15
Vietnam era Randall 15

 

[Holliday]

I am not a fan of 1095 for various reasons. That and D2 are both steels I feel are grossly overrated. That is just my personal opinion having nothing to do with rust. I know the 1095- jesus will have a bird.

As mentioned S30V and also S35VN are fantastic stainless steels that perform well. A steel I really like that is controversial Elmax which if memory serves is a powdered steel. It’s reputation seems to have unfairly taken a hit because of some knife-maker heat-treat problems in the beginning that were corrected.

 

[pmclaine]

The tops knives are good work knives but I hate the "coating" that they use on the blades.

I like the idea of maintaining gear to some extent. It allows you to inspect it and ensure its serviceable.

My ideal finish on anything is parkerizing.

It allows the steel to still do its job as steel and will hold preservation oils to prevent rust.

If anyone has a good solution to remove the coating from my TOPs BOB knife let me know.

Id like to do that than send the steel of for some parkerizing.

Was looking at The Knife Connection the other day and saw some very nice knives.....

These would be perfect with parkerizing.

 

[Kickin45]

Spyderco ‘Black’ line, And any of their ‘Steet’ line. Excellent blades.
Also as mentioned, the SOG Sealpup is a great knife as well.
Also Benchmade Nimravus, but I’m still pissed at Benchmade!!!

 

[DaveinCO]

I am not a fan of 1095 for various reasons. That and D2 are both steels I feel are grossly overrated. That is just my personal opinion having nothing to do with rust. I know the 1095- jesus will have a bird.

As mentioned S30V and also S35VN are fantastic stainless steels that perform well. A steel I really like that is controversial Elmax which if memory serves is a powdered steel. It’s reputation seems to have unfairly taken a hit because of some knife-maker heat-treat problems in the beginning that were corrected.


View attachment 7101167

China D2 has given it a bad name, much like a few examples of Elmax. Most of the chinesium "D2" is recycled refrigerators. If you find an Arkansas made Dozier the steel is on a whole other level. I have had Benchmades in D2 and it was far inferior to the dozier.

 

[Holliday]

China D2 has given it a bad name, much like a few examples of Elmax. Most of the chinesium "D2" is recycled refrigerators. If you find an Arkansas made Dozier the steel is on a whole other level. I have had Benchmades in D2 and it was far inferior to the dozier.

I don’t buy Chinese blades. (Now I pissed off the Chinese midtech Reate- jesus folks.....) I’m talking benchmade etc. I know a lot of folks love D2 and there is the D2-jesus crowd but I am talking about the specific qualities of the metal. I have a wicked edge pro and not only deal with my own blades but those blades friends want sharpened, beyond anything they have ever experienced before. I just think with modern metals and powder/ spray forming, when it comes to grain size, corrosion resistance, edge retention and carbide distribution, there are much better blade steels.

BUT having said that, I LOVE PSF27. Same steel as D2 but using spray form technology. Holds an edge better and is reportedly much tougher. This is due to smaller grain structure and more evenly distributed carbides from the Carpenter Steel’s spray forming process.

D2 has been around since WWII and if you like it, no one can tell you that you are wrong. Steel choice can be very subjective.....

 

[pmclaine]

Now here is some forged carbon steel than I wouldnt parkerize........

Farmhouse Skillet

A genuine “farmhouse” skillet, inspired by American blacksmith design of the 18thand 19thcentury, the new Smithey 12” carbon steel skillet is as much work of art as it is a cooking tool.

smitheyironware.com

 

[DaveinCO]

I don’t buy Chinese blades. (Now I pissed off the Chinese midtech Reate- jesus folks.....) I’m talking benchmade etc. I know a lot of folks love D2 and there is the D2-jesus crowd but I am talking about the specific qualities of the metal. I have a wicked edge pro and not only deal with my own blades but those blades friends want sharpened, beyond anything they have ever experienced before. I just think with modern metals and powder/ spray forming, when it comes to grain size, corrosion resistance, edge retention and carbide distribution, there are much better blade steels.

BUT having said that, I LOVE PSF27. Same steel as D2 but using spray form technology. Holds an edge better and is reportedly much tougher. This is due to smaller grain structure and more evenly distributed carbides from the Carpenter Steel’s spray forming process.

D2 has been around since WWII and if you like it, no one can tell you that you are wrong. Steel choice can be very subjective.....

View attachment 7101192
View attachment 7101199

I agree with you generally, the real point I was making with the chinese STEEL comment is that there are a lot of "USA" made knives that buy steel knowingly or unknowingly from china.
I was underwhelmed with Benchmades D2 but when done right it works well. It doesn't hold an edge like Maximet but it is much tougher so in some applications better.
FWIW D2 is by no means the only steel with this problem, that's why steel quality and heat treat will always be more important to me than the claimed steel used.
As you said, very subjective. I have been loving the CPM M4 for EDC pocket carry lately but it would make a crappy prybar. I agree there is a huge difference between Crucibles powder M4 and other "M4" steels from my experience.

 

[quietmike]

My current favorite hard user knife is a Terava Jaakaripuukko.
It's a very basic, but very capable, knife and cheap enough you won't care if it gets dinged up. 80crv2 steel, which is very tough, takes a good edge and is easy to sharpen.

 

[perttime]

My current favorite hard user knife is a Terava Jaakaripuukko.
It's a very basic, but very capable, knife and cheap enough you won't care if it gets dinged up. 80crv2 steel, which is very tough, takes a good edge and is easy to sharpen.

Love that company. They sell and "produce" (get stuff done to their specs) all sorts of outdoorsy and tactical stuff. And they aren't taking themselves more seriously than necessary:
"Values: We are the good guys"
"Vision: Total world domination"

About us

Varusteleka (pronounced [Wheres the liquor?] and loosely translates to Gear Hammer) is an military and outdoors store from Finland. We have a walk-in store in Helsinki and we serve online customers worldwide. What does t

www.varusteleka.com

 

[Unknown]

I made some knives out of 1095 for my parents as a Christmas gift back in 1992. I included lots of information, (verbal and written) about caring for handmade knives. Mostly, don't toss them in the sink or dishwasher. While my Dad was alive they cared for them well enough. After Dad died, Mom forgot about the care instructions, and every time I would see her, I would re-polish, re-finish the Thuya burl handles, re-sharpen, and again instruct her about care.

I finally realized she saw them as disposable as she would throw them into a sink of dirty dishes and get around to washing them the next day, and would toss them in the dishwasher and leave them for a day or two.... After Mom died, I got them back, they were hopelessly pitted and looked like they were made in 1850.

However, they still cut well. I got the worst of the rust off , re-ground the edges, re-finished the handles, and gave them away again to my former partner at work who LOVES knives and understands caring for them. He can pass them onto his children or grandchildren.

 

[pmclaine]

I made some knives out of 1095 for my parents as a Christmas gift back in 1992. I included lots of information, (verbal and written) about caring for handmade knives. Mostly, don't toss them in the sink or dishwasher. While my Dad was alive they cared for them well enough. After Dad died, Mom forgot about the care instructions, and every time I would see her, I would re-polish, re-finish the Thuya burl handles, re-sharpen, and again instruct her about care.

I finally realized she saw them as disposable as she would throw them into a sink of dirty dishes and get around to washing them the next day, and would toss them in the dishwasher and leave them for a day or two.... After Mom died, I got them back, they were hopelessly pitted and looked like they were made in 1850.

However, they still cut well. I got the worst of the rust off , re-ground the edges, re-finished the handles, and gave them away again to my former partner at work who LOVES knives and understands caring for them. He can pass them onto his children or grandchildren.

Use imparts a beauty and memories that have value to those that know the stories the wear tells.

 

[nockhunter]

I like my Becker BK16, 1095 will rust also but oiled it's pretty durable. I like most S30V blades from Benchmade, but I am currently boycotting them for their political contributions. I am thinking I might try the ESEE4 440c knife a try. At one time 440c was considered a super steel. I have had good results in the past.

Mike

 

[Sutherlandsd]

I like my Becker BK16, 1095 will rust also but oiled it's pretty durable. I like most S30V blades from Benchmade, but I am currently boycotting them for their political contributions. I am thinking I might try the ESEE4 440c knife a try. At one time 440c was considered a super steel. I have had good results in the past.

Mike

The ESEE 4 is the perfect size knife, its my if you can only grab one knife in the apocalypse knife. Mine looks like absolute ass it has ugly TN orange scales and the coating that is mostly gone was a vomitous shade of green but its a great knife, (I did get stranded on a mountain once with and it was quite comforting its in the list of stuff I will never sell). One in 440 may be the perfect knife preferably not in that puke green.

 

[R.Markus]

I'm a little biased because I make knives, but I carry this most days. Still not sold on the handle color, but I don't feel like making a new one. It does need black oxide screws, though.

 

[nockhunter]

Nice blade,,,,,,,I like it!

Mike