Go To Work Drunk and The Court Gives You The Job Back With Back Pay

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Reinstatement of THP trooper who drank hours before breathalyzer training class upheld

A Tennessee judge has upheld a lower court’s decision to reinstate a Tennessee Highway Patrol trooper who was fired after breath samples he submitted during a training course on the use of br…

www.wate.com

Sounds like anyone charged with DUI from any officer in this barracks should get it thrown out. The court threw out the breathalyzer because it wasn't administered correctly. It was in the class that they were teaching the officers how to administer it!!! Un fucking believable.
Well, he was not acting drunk. So he's an alcoholic that handles it better than the average person. The fucker admitted to drinking himself to sleep. He needs help. Not a job enforcing laws with a gun and a badge.

 

[Ronws]

A cop who can hold his liquor.

That's amazing. What other way is there to administer the test?

Also, the rule does not say how it is determined to be detectable. Plenty of cops have detained someone coming out of a night club acting perfectly fine and still detected it with a test. Most any court would uphold that test because of a reasonable expectation.

They did not have to suspect the officer of drinking. But it was discovered during the work that he had been drinking. So, it worked out fine for his work this day. It does not guarantee that he can drink like that again and do well on patrol. Yankee is right, he needs help.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

He admitted to suffering from PTSD and abusing alcohol to self medicate for it. So if he's on patrol and has an episode does he drink to deal with it? No one is going to know.

 

[Supersubes]

A cop who can hold his liquor.

That's amazing. What other way is there to administer the test?

Also, the rule does not say how it is determined to be detectable. Plenty of cops have detained someone coming out of a night club acting perfectly fine and still detected it with a test. Most any court would uphold that test because of a reasonable expectation.

They did not have to suspect the officer of drinking. But it was discovered during the work that he had been drinking. So, it worked out fine for his work this day. It does not guarantee that he can drink like that again and do well on patrol. Yankee is right, he needs help.

Probably has something to do with having a dip in between the samples. If he burped between the two samples(theyre supposed to be two minutes apart), for example, that would kill the test due to the potential for alcohol in the mouth.

For my department, the presence of alcohol in any amount would get me fired. Impairment would have to be proven for the criminal side. In the above case, very unlikely this guy would have been convicted with a .03% blood alcohol concentration. There’d have to be other factors( prescription meds of street drugs). DA wouldn't even file that in any county ive ever been.

 

[7.62willdo]

Back the blue!

 

[FredHammer]

@DarnYankeeUSMC - I hope you understand that your disease is far worse than the trooper's problem identified in the article. If you didn't follow literally every tactic in the far left liberal democrat handbook in the rant of yours, from the sensationalistic thread title, to blanket punishments for all, then you just came upon your hypocrisy naturally. Either way, admitting you're a liberal democrat is the first step to treatment. In addition, I would hope somewhere in that treatment they can assuage you of your irrational and blind hatred for a certain class of people who perform the roles of law enforcement.

Your statements also indicate a possible further bias against veterans who suffer from PTSD. I don't condone anyone abusing alcohol, and especially not amongst people who hold positions of trust & authority, but it seems a leadership failure of the command ranks in the TN State Patrol. To put it simply, the officer admittedly had a problem, and was found in violation of administrative policies where he was not given due process. (Evidenced by the Court's reversal and officer reinstatement) To move against an employee with an admitted problem is grounds for far more relief by the employee than mentioned in the article in many states of the nation. The TN State Patrol should have administratively punished the officer for the behavior, but also sought remedies by helping the officer with treatment of his mental health. If any other organ in the body gets sick treatment is not only rational, but customary, so why isn't the brain viewed in the same light? (I don't know any court in the land that wouldn't also order treatment as condition to reinstatement so, it's highly likely the treatment I mention had been done after the fact. Which should have been implemented prior to the debacle, but anyways I am glad they got the military veteran treated or at lest in treatment.)

"DRUNK" A .033 BAC breathalizer sample is so low that is does not constitute even civil action of license suspension by the Secretary of State. This is also a such a low amount BAC that mouth alcohols and cold medicines can produce this level. Furthermore, portable breath tests are not admissible in court, but only a means of supporting probably cause for an arrest. However, the presence of any BAC sample amount, and admissions by the officer of alcohol abuse as negative coping strategies for PTSD, the officer to still abuse alcohol throughout the night prior to breathalizer testing, further demonstrates strong evidence of a mental health problem. (Who in their right mind would drink before a breathalizer test, right?)

Remember "Mission Accomplishment & Troop Welfare"? How can the mission be accomplished without the welfare of the the troops?

Semper Fidelis

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

@DarnYankeeUSMC - I hope you understand that your disease is far worse than the trooper's problem identified in the article. If you didn't follow literally every tactic in the far left liberal democrat handbook in the rant of yours, from the sensationalistic thread title, to blanket punishments for all, then you just came upon your hypocrisy naturally. Either way, admitting you're a liberal democrat is the first step to treatment. In addition, I would hope somewhere in that treatment they can assuage you of your irrational and blind hatred for a certain class of people who perform the roles of law enforcement.

Your statements also indicate a possible further bias against veterans who suffer from PTSD. I don't condone anyone abusing alcohol, and especially not amongst people who hold positions of trust & authority, but it seems a leadership failure of the command ranks in the TN State Patrol. To put it simply, the officer admittedly had a problem, and was found in violation of administrative policies where he was not given due process. (Evidenced by the Court's reversal and officer reinstatement) To move against an employee with an admitted problem is grounds for far more relief by the employee than mentioned in the article in many states of the nation. The TN State Patrol should have administratively punished the officer for the behavior, but also sought remedies by helping the officer with treatment of his mental health. If any other organ in the body gets sick treatment is not only rational, but customary, so why isn't the brain viewed in the same light? (I don't know any court in the land that wouldn't also order treatment as condition to reinstatement so, it's highly likely the treatment I mention had been done after the fact. Which should have been implemented prior to the debacle, but anyways I am glad they got the military veteran treated or at lest in treatment.)

"DRUNK" A .033 BAC breathalizer sample is so low that is does not constitute even civil action of license suspension by the Secretary of State. This is also a such a low amount BAC that mouth alcohols and cold medicines can produce this level. Furthermore, portable breath tests are not admissible in court, but only a means of supporting probably cause for an arrest. However, the presence of any BAC sample amount, and admissions by the officer of alcohol abuse as negative coping strategies for PTSD, the officer to still abuse alcohol throughout the night prior to breathalizer testing, further demonstrates strong evidence of a mental health problem. (Who in their right mind would drink before a breathalizer test, right?)

Remember "Mission Accomplishment & Troop Welfare"? How can the mission be accomplished without the welfare of the the troops?

Semper Fidelis

Reading comprehension
Quote from the article

"The courts deemed that the breathalyzer tests were administered incorrectly and did not meet state evidentiary statutes. Thus, the termination was deemed invalid and the data was improperly cited as evidence"

He was fired because he showed up to work under the influence of alcohol. He was given his job back because they administered the test "incorrectly" and that evidence was thrown out. Without the breathalyzer they wouldn't have known that he was under the influence. So they gave him his job back.
So they were teaching officers how to administer the test incorrectly?

 

[Crewdog135]

From what I'm seeing here, that department tried to do the right thing. Dude came to work under the influence and they fired him. Then the dipshit lawyers and judge got involved. I totally agree, the guy seems to have a problem and needs help. And they dept acted reasonably as well, as far as I can tell. So, if you're going to attack and say the good cops need to hold the bad cops accountable or they're not good cops, the corrallary is true as well. They tried to hold the guy accountable and the court overturned it. I'd imagine that attacking the veracity of the test is standard procedure for any attorney. This judge may have just set (at least local) precident for just such an attack. I guess my point is be fair. There are plenty of shitbirds that deserve ire, but acknowledge when they are trying to do it right. I do hope the guy gets the help he needs and the department makes sure he's not on the street until he does.

 

[nagantguy]

Well this seems to be the norm- FBI agent just got sentenced to one day of prison for stealing firearms from evidence including NFA items and then selling them.


And this guy from my home state - cop and public safety director for Bay City . He didn’t like where some kids were riding their scooters so he hit one with his maglite - was charged - then retired - then found guilty , then allowed to retire with pension and is now suing the city saying the cities insurance should cover his civil suit loss costs - because he retires in good standing !

Lawyer wants Bay City’s insurance to cover ex-public safety director’s legal fees in assault case

"I always did what was expected of me and actually much more, only to be told that I am on my own for doing my job," wrote Michael J. Cecchini in an email to the city manager.

www.mlive.com

 

[Ronws]

Reading comprehension
Quote from the article

"The courts deemed that the breathalyzer tests were administered incorrectly and did not meet state evidentiary statutes. Thus, the termination was deemed invalid and the data was improperly cited as evidence"

He was fired because he showed up to work under the influence of alcohol. He was given his job back because they administered the test "incorrectly" and that evidence was thrown out. Without the breathalyzer they wouldn't have known that he was under the influence. So they gave him his job back.
So they were teaching officers how to administer the test incorrectly?

So it would seem and that would create a backlog of reopening cases to question the collection of evidence.

 

[Supersubes]

From what I'm seeing here, that department tried to do the right thing. Dude came to work under the influence and they fired him. Then the dipshit lawyers and judge got involved. I totally agree, the guy seems to have a problem and needs help. And they dept acted reasonably as well, as far as I can tell. So, if you're going to attack and say the good cops need to hold the bad cops accountable or they're not good cops, the corrallary is true as well. They tried to hold the guy accountable and the court overturned it. I'd imagine that attacking the veracity of the test is standard procedure for any attorney. This judge may have just set (at least local) precident for just such an attack. I guess my point is be fair. There are plenty of shitbirds that deserve ire, but acknowledge when they are trying to do it right. I do hope the guy gets the help he needs and the department makes sure he's not on the street until he does.

Yes, attacking the breath results is standard. It would have been nice if the journalist who wrote the story would have asked what the correct procedure would have been. Instead its left to speculation. Its undoubtedly published in govt code as well.

 

[Ronws]

Yes, attacking the breath results is standard. It would have been nice if the journalist who wrote the story would have asked what the correct procedure would have been. Instead its left to speculation. Its undoubtedly in the govt code as well.

I have watched some cop shows and normally, they do not convict prosecute alone on the breath test. Usually that gets the cops in a mood to get a warrant for a blood draw to confirm. BAC from blood is a far more accurate means. That is why, when pulled over for suspected DUI, never consent to breathalyzer.

They will arrest you and you are going to jail. But by the time they get a warrant for blood draw, you could be below the legal limit.

Something I learned from attorneys talking about these situations, all stemming from James Duane's viral lecture ("Don't Talk to the Police.")

When pulled over, if the cop asks you if you had anything to drink and you say anything other than no, this is now a DUI stop. They could still suspect you. You could also decline to answer questions about what you did in the past, and the past was one second ago. You don't have to tell them where you are going. That is the future, which is one second from now.

The only thing you should do is present identification. Don't fight. But don't talk.

Don't do the field sobriety test. You will be arrested but you are going to be arrested, anyway. Not doing the test and keeping your mouth shut may result in you walking away without a conviction.

Also, not driving under the influence is great advice.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Yes, attacking the breath results is standard. It would have been nice if the journalist who wrote the story would have asked what the correct procedure would have been. Instead its left to speculation. Its undoubtedly published in govt code as well.

The lawyers representing anyone that had a DUI in that area should be filing a foia request to find out what the judge made his decision on. If they are going to clear this guy because they did the test incorrectly. Everyone that has gone through the training has been doing it incorrectly and that means everyone charged with DUI should have the results thrown out.
Of course there's a caveat. The Dumbass that played the field sobriety game are fucked.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I do business in this area. It's corrupt beyond belief. The number one industry is shine and pot. The chief of the fire department was arrested and jailed for distribution of cocaine a few years ago. A brothel was allowed to remain in business for more than thirty years that I know of.
Let's just say that I know of a lot more that goes on in that country.

 

[Supersubes]

The lawyers representing anyone that had a DUI in that area should be filing a foia request to find out what the judge made his decision on. If they are going to clear this guy because they did the test incorrectly. Everyone that has gone through the training has been doing it incorrectly and that means everyone charged with DUI should have the results thrown out.
Of course there's a caveat. The Dumbass that played the field sobriety game are fucked.

What went wrong here is probably far more slight than you realize. The fact that this encounter occurred during training, likely caused the procedural error. For example, he blows into the machine and it comes up with a result of .03%. The supervisor should have stopped everything, removed the officer, and started from square one. All of the FST’s concluding with another breath test. More than likely there's an admonishment to precede the breath test. If the Sgt instead just has him remove the dip, and blow into it again then ends things there, thats an improperly administered test. The fix could have been as simple as getting a third sample.

In a field arrest, its far easier to avoid any of these pitfalls.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

How do we know the test wasn’t administered incorrectly on purpose to save a fellow officer?

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Never mind, reading is hard.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

What went wrong here is probably far more slight than you realize. The fact that this encounter occurred during training, likely caused the procedural error. For example, he blows into the machine and it comes up with a result of .03%. The supervisor should have stopped everything, removed the officer, and started from square one. All of the FST’s concluding with another breath test. More than likely there's an admonishment to precede the breath test. If the Sgt instead just has him remove the dip, and blow into it again then ends things there, thats an improperly administered test. The fix could have been as simple as getting a third sample.

In a field arrest, its far easier to avoid any of these pitfalls.

The test procedure should not have anything to do with his firing. He admitted to having several drinks within a few hours of arrival at 8am. The machine was not out of calibration. They gave him the allotted time to retest after removing the dip. He was fired for being under the influence. If they tested the machine and found it out of calibration I'd have zero problems with him being on the job. If he blew into the machine for the prescribed amount of time then he should be greeting people at the entrance to Walmart.

 

[Supersubes]

I have watched some cop shows and normally, they do not convict prosecute alone on the breath test. Usually that gets the cops in a mood to get a warrant for a blood draw to confirm. BAC from blood is a far more accurate means. That is why, when pulled over for suspected DUI, never consent to breathalyzer.

They will arrest you and you are going to jail. But by the time they get a warrant for blood draw, you could be below the legal limit.

Something I learned from attorneys talking about these situations, all stemming from James Duane's viral lecture ("Don't Talk to the Police.")

When pulled over, if the cop asks you if you had anything to drink and you say anything other than no, this is now a DUI stop. They could still suspect you. You could also decline to answer questions about what you did in the past, and the past was one second ago. You don't have to tell them where you are going. That is the future, which is one second from now.

The only thing you should do is present identification. Don't fight. But don't talk.

Don't do the field sobriety test. You will be arrested but you are going to be arrested, anyway. Not doing the test and keeping your mouth shut may result in you walking away without a conviction.

Also, not driving under the influence is great advice.

Yes, not driving under the influence is the best plan.

Something that’s being missed here though is that there are two separate breath tests. One that can be administered in the field, Pre-arrest, and another that can be administered post arrest and is generally a different device altogether. We don’t actually know what training this particular officer was in, because they just use the generic term a breathalyzer. Again, shitty reporting.

You can refuse the pre-arrest test without penalty. You can refuse the post arrest breath test in favor of a blood test with no penalties. If you refuse all tests, you will be penalized by your department of motor vehicles at the very least. A blood draw warrant is extremely easy to obtain now. It takes me about 20 minutes, and they are easier to get in the middle of the night than during the day. If the blood is drawn, and you are later convicted, you will face a more severe penalty for the refusal to submit to the test.

 

[Supersubes]

The test procedure should not have anything to do with his firing. He admitted to having several drinks within a few hours of arrival at 8am. The machine was not out of calibration. They gave him the allotted time to retest after removing the dip. He was fired for being under the influence. If they tested the machine and found it out of calibration I'd have zero problems with him being on the job. If he blew into the machine for the prescribed amount of time then he should be greeting people at the entrance to Walmart.

No. An improperly administered test is absolutely grounds to toss the test, just as it would be for you if you were standing on the side of the road taking an improperly administer test. It sounds like they had zero additional evidence, so they were 100% unable to prove influence. I suspect it’s just a word they used, because there is no damn way that anybody is under the influence at .03%.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

No. An improperly administered test is absolutely grounds to toss the test, just as it would be for you if you were standing on the side of the road taking an improperly administer test. It sounds like they had zero additional evidence, so they were 100% unable to prove influence. I suspect it’s just a word they used, because there is no damn way that anybody is under the influence at .03%.

We know that alcohol is processed at a certain rate. Let's take the low reading of .033. What would have been his BAC at 8am when he arrived at work?

 

[Supersubes]

We know that alcohol is processed at a certain rate. Let's take the low reading of .03. What would have been his BAC at 8am when he arrived at work?

The fact that they had two samples that have near perfect agreement, the number was correct more than likely. I totally agree with you. But none of that matters if the test gets tossed because it was improperly administered. Just like an illegal search, it’s improperly obtained evidence. Just use yourself as an example. You’re on the side of the road. You refuse field sobriety test or they don’t even administer them, but you submit to an improperly administered breath test at the end. Then you get to court and everybody trying to prosecute you is like well fuck it he’s guilty, look at the number! That’s not how it works. Any public defender gets the breath results tossed, and the entire case shortly thereafter.

Another thing to note, these devices are calibrated weekly. If that device is one minute outside of its calibration window, all the results from then till its next calibration are trash. Again, due to shitty reporting we don’t even know what kind of course this is. This could’ve been a calibration course, where the calibration and record keeping of the devices was the subject, and not test administration. They could’ve been sitting in a room full of uncalibrated devices. They could’ve calibrated every device in the room except the one that this officer blew into. Total speculation there of course. What’s not speculation is that two separate courts tossed the breath results.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

The fact that they had two samples that have near perfect agreement, the number was correct more than likely. I totally agree with you. But none of that matters if the test gets tossed because it was improperly administered. Just like an illegal search, it’s improperly obtained evidence. Just use yourself as an example. You’re on the side of the road. You refuse field sobriety test or they don’t even administer them, but you submit to an improperly administered breath test at the end. Then you get to court and everybody trying to prosecute you is like well fuck it he’s guilty, look at the number! That’s not how it works. Any public defender gets the breath results tossed, and the entire case shortly thereafter.

Another thing to note, these devices are calibrated weekly. If that device is one minute outside of its calibration window, all the results from then till its next calibration are trash. Again, due to shitty reporting we don’t even know what kind of course this is. This could’ve been a calibration course, where the calibration and record keeping of the devices was the subject, and not test administration. They could’ve been sitting in a room full of uncalibrated devices. They could’ve calibrated every device in the room except the one that this officer blew into. Total speculation there of course. What’s not speculation is that two separate courts tossed the breath results.

I agree with you on all that. BUT. He was not being charged with a crime. He was fired for breaking policy. Policy that he admitted to breaking. He's given a gun and a badge with special privileges to detain and arrest. It sounds like his superiors and the board agreed that he should be held to a higher standard.
This guy is self medicating with alcohol for PTSD. We all know how fucked up that is. He admitted to drinking enough to be able to sleep twice in less than an 8 to ten hour period. Do/did those in his barracks know that he was having a problem?
Dude needs some serious help. Like I asked earlier. What happens if he has an episode while on duty?
Since no one has chimed in to answer what his BAC was at 8am I'll guess it was higher than .05. So when he left his house, driving a state patrol vehicle, he was even higher than that.

 

[pmclaine]

Dude was probably fully vaccinated….he is redeemable and has value.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Any of the LEO (past or present) here want this guy on the job with you? A majority of your career is mundane bullshit but that one time you need a backup. Do you want it to be someone you trust or him? Trust with your life?

 

[TexPatriot]

So a cop takes a training class on administering a breathilizer test and fails? LMAO.

Some days you just need to call in sick.

 

[NoDopes]

Lol.. how did I know this would be a cop before opening the thread. Oooof.

 

[Supersubes]

I agree with you on all that. BUT. He was not being charged with a crime. He was fired for breaking policy. Policy that he admitted to breaking. He's given a gun and a badge with special privileges to detain and arrest. It sounds like his superiors and the board agreed that he should be held to a higher standard.
This guy is self medicating with alcohol for PTSD. We all know how fucked up that is. He admitted to drinking enough to be able to sleep twice in less than an 8 to ten hour period. Do/did those in his barracks know that he was having a problem?
Dude needs some serious help. Like I asked earlier. What happens if he has an episode while on duty?
Since no one has chimed in to answer what his BAC was at 8am I'll guess it was higher than .05. So when he left his house, driving a state patrol vehicle, he was even higher than that.

We are not disagreeing on 99% of what going on. To answer your question, you burn alcohol at a rate of .015/hr.

 

[TexPatriot]

Any of the LEO (past or present) here want this guy on the job with you? A majority of your career is mundane bullshit but that one time you need a backup. Do you want it to be someone you trust or him? Trust with your life?

I rode Harleys with a motorcycle cop that would go on poker runs with us on a Sunday. By the afternoon he'd be absolutely shit faced and back in uniform the next morning. When the rest of the crowd, including me, were winding down and going home, he'd still be going at it until he was a one man show. No way he was sober next morning. The liver can't work that fast.

He couldn't live that double life forever and ended up quitting the PD, growing his hair long, getting full sleeve tats and working for a Harley shop. His wife even followed him into that life and would take off her top and dance nekked on a table.

 

[Ronws]

He couldn't live that double life forever and ended up quitting the PD, growing his hair long, getting full sleeve tats and working for a Harley shop. His wife even followed him into that life and would take off her top and dance nekked on a table.

See? Sexism right there. If I take off my top and dance nekked on the table, people beg me to stop and get dressed.

 

[AngryKoala]

See? Sexism right there. If I take off my top and dance nekked on the table, people beg me to stop and get dressed.

Even at the gay bar?

 

[TexPatriot]

See? Sexism right there. If I take off my top and dance nekked on the table, people beg me to stop and get dressed.

She had a beautiful rack, I ain't shittin' you. Probably 29-30ish, brunette, nice bod and tits that stuck straight out.

I never understood how a cop with a good career and beautiful wife could throw it all away unless they were bored and got addicted to the dark side. I'm curious where they are now.

 

[918v]

Reading comprehension
Quote from the article

"The courts deemed that the breathalyzer tests were administered incorrectly and did not meet state evidentiary statutes. Thus, the termination was deemed invalid and the data was improperly cited as evidence"

He was fired because he showed up to work under the influence of alcohol. He was given his job back because they administered the test "incorrectly" and that evidence was thrown out. Without the breathalyzer they wouldn't have known that he was under the influence. So they gave him his job back.
So they were teaching officers how to administer the test incorrectly?

.033 is not enough to be “under the influence “

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

.033 is not enough to be “under the influence “

That's not the issue. He was not arrested for anything. He was fired for breaking the policy's of the department.
He was .063 when he arrived at work. Probably .07 when he left home for work. It's against the policy to work at any level.

 

[nagantguy]

That porky prick wouldn’t hesitate to bust someone carrying concealed after blowing .04 the morning after a “night out” nope fuck him.