Rifle Scopes Going away from my XTR II, where to look?

[Wildcat0313]

Getting away from my XTR II because I'm just not a fan of the glass clarity. It could just be my eyes but straight on the CA is awful to me. My options as of now are as follows:

Vortex Viper PST Gen 2
Vortex Razor Gen 1
Bushnell LRTS or DMR 2
SIG Tango 4 6-24 (DEV-L)

It is being used for PRS style matches and I like all the reticles in these. The NF SHV F1 is fine, but I would like a bit more top end mag if possible. The only one above that I'm hesitant on is the Gen 1 Razor with the 35mm tube, but that's not a major deal.

The real question is if I'm missing anything else in the $1200 range? How would you narrow down this option? Which of these would you personally hang onto for 3-4 years?

 

[easyrdr]

Sightron SIII Mil Mil scopes. I have a 8-32 in MOA. Great glass and great turrets.

 

[hypno02]

A used Cronus is going to make you happier than any of the above. I bought a brand new DMR2 two weeks ago and it doesn't compare to the cronus.

 

[Nathan11B]

I have the LRTSi in 4.5-18x44 and it’s been great so far. Sounds like you’re in a pickle, the one which stands out is the Razor Gen I IMO. Solid scope, good glass and repeatable.

 

[Bender]

Used SWFA 5-25?

 

[snarkscarbine]

PST2 has a decent amount of CA as well. Kindof comes with the territory in the price range you're looking at, I'm afraid.

LRHS handles it pretty well as I recall, though.

 

[patriot07]

PST2 has the best glass of any scope in that price range new. Razor Gen 1 and SWFA 5-20 HD are in that price range used and have the best glass in that price range IMHO.

Unless you need zero stop or you really hate the mil quad reticle, I'd go with the SWFA 5-20 HD.

That being said, if you want to go new, I believe the PST2 has significantly better glass than the XTR II, especially if you had the 5-25 XTR II.

 

[patriot07]

Also, you can get a used Steiner T5xi for not much more money, and the SCR reticle is pretty nice. I haven't looked through one in person, but allegedly they are quite good.

 

[Birddog6424]

I've found that there is some variation in glass quality in the XTR II's, especially some of them that are 2 to 4 years old.. And all scopes of this nature to be honest. Manufacturers have a litmus of acceptability, or, "within standards". I think most companies operate this way. We have all seen plenty of people complain about their scope, just to see a poster right after them talk about how great they think theirs is.

My 3 year old 5-25 is pretty clear, only exhibiting the tiniest bit of CA if you really look for it. I shoot with that scope on my 300 Norma mag to a mile plus without issue. I have 3 of the 4-20 H591's, and they are clean and clear from edge to edge. Two of these that I have compared to the Gen II PST had everyone who had looked through them thinking there was no difference. And we spent quite a bit of time between a handful of guys putting them through their paces.

Perhaps if you got ahold of Burris and told them it was driving you nuts you could get something worked out? Chances are very good the next XTRII you ended up with would be every bit as good as the ones you are thinking about switching to.

 

[STROP]

Used SWFA 5-25?

You mean 5-20x or did I miss something?

DMR 2 is actually way better in CA and clarity than I thought it would be. The DMR 2 Pro (ED glass) is due soon but probably around $1700 or so?

 

[Poorboyr]

If you can put out a few more dollars, the Athlon cronus is the way to go.

 

[koshkin]

I've found that there is some variation in glass quality in the XTR II's, especially some of them that are 2 to 4 years old.. And all scopes of this nature to be honest. Manufacturers have a litmus of acceptability, or, "within standards". I think most companies operate this way. We have all seen plenty of people complain about their scope, just to see a poster right after them talk about how great they think theirs is.

My 3 year old 5-25 is pretty clear, only exhibiting the tiniest bit of CA if you really look for it. I shoot with that scope on my 300 Norma mag to a mile plus without issue. I have 3 of the 4-20 H591's, and they are clean and clear from edge to edge. Two of these that I have compared to the Gen II PST had everyone who had looked through them thinking there was no difference. And we spent quite a bit of time between a handful of guys putting them through their paces.

Perhaps if you got ahold of Burris and told them it was driving you nuts you could get something worked out? Chances are very good the next XTRII you ended up with would be every bit as good as the ones you are thinking about switching to.

That would likely be the first course of action: contact Burris and see what they can do for you.

Aside from that, in the $1200 range, the best image quality with new scopes is probably PST Gen 2, although Athlon's Ares ETR looks promising. I plan to look at one and see how it stacks up.

Next step up would be SWFA SSHD 5-20x50, Athlon Cronus 4.7-29x56, Delta Stryker 4.5-30x56, etc.

ILya

 

[fdkay]

The LRTSi has noticeably better glass than the PST II, not tremendously better, but noticeable.
There is no issue with the parallax or illumination being stiff on the bushnell, this is an issue on the PST II.
That being said, that is likely where the extra coin comes in when paying for the Bushnell.
The PST has glass that is quite good, the turret feel is awesome. But, there is also the issue of dependability.
The XTR II has a reputation for being very solid and damn near bullet proof. The same can't be said for the PST II.

I'm not knocking the PST II, but these are two direct competitors that are built in the same country with the same set of features. One is known for really good, tactile feeling turrets and very decent glass, the other is known for durability. Both are known for tracking.

If it was me, I would look to step up a few hundred dollars, into the Japanese made scopes like the Bushnell and SWFA. The 5-20 goes for 1300 without illumination, It has a reputation for excellent glass and tracking. It will likely be on sale on tax day.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Anyone hearing anything more on potential XTRII updates this year? I'm in the market like the OP and i'm leaning toward a 4-20 XTRII.

 

[b6graham]

wait for the athlon ares etr

 

[Birddog6424]

Anyone hearing anything more on potential XTRII updates this year? I'm in the market like the OP and i'm leaning toward a 4-20 XTRII.

I can't comment on any updates, but anything cooking is most likely still out a ways. I certainly wouldn't put an optic purchase on hold for any scope manufacturer that has something around the corner. R&D and field testing takes time. Not to mention getting retooled and getting the final product to market.

I can speak to the current 4-20 however, and in full confidence say that everything I have seen lately has been pretty nice. All mine are under a year old, as well as couple that belong to friends of mine, and as I mentioned above, the glass is pretty good. Even WJM here on the boards said he was pretty impressed with the last one he looked through, and he sees a lot of good glass.

 

[Apnea]

Also, you can get a used Steiner T5xi for not much more money, and the SCR reticle is pretty nice. I haven't looked through one in person, but allegedly they are quite good.

Price wise this seems like a logical next step. Interested to hear from guys who have used the T5X.

 

[Lionsbreath]

I just bought a new Steiner 5-25 T5Xi , I hate to keep bragging on this thing but I’m in love with it.. It tracks good, good glass, great reticle (SCR) assembled in Colorado, good tactile turrets that are the easiest turrets to use that I’ve ever shot on- not sure why this scope isn’t more popular around here... I know the SWFA gets a lot of love around here for good reason, but i wasn’t ok with the 30mm tube, and the Mil-quad reticle, just sayin.. I would take a hard look at this thing, it’s sleek.. in the $1600 range this thing is tough to top

 

[JMGlasgow]

The Steiner T5Xi isn't more popular because of the terrible initial rollout of that line. Tracking sucked, ghost clicks, canted reticles, etc. They seem to have the bugs worked out now, but it still is a sour subject to some.

I have a 1st gen Steiner Military 4-16x50 on my 308, and for the used price right now, they are unbeatable in tracking, reliability, glass quality, and ruggedness. The only thing lacking is the reticle, but it is still very usable.

 

[Glassaholic]

OP, since you're that sensitive to the CA I would highly recommend you look through these other scopes before you purchase. Like Birddog and ILya have said already, this is pretty much par for the course for this price level of scope and I'd imagine all the scopes you mentioned (some I've owned) will have about as much CA as your XTR II. The XTR II 4-20 I had actually held CA pretty well, better than some more expensive scopes even so you might consider contacting Burris and telling them what's up and see what they can do for you. You'll need to look into the $2k+ category in order to find better control of CA, sometimes you can find these used for under $2k, but by and large they hold their value pretty well.

 

[patriot07]

OP, since you're that sensitive to the CA I would highly recommend you look through these other scopes before you purchase. Like Birddog and ILya have said already, this is pretty much par for the course for this price level of scope and I'd imagine all the scopes you mentioned (some I've owned) will have about as much CA as your XTR II. The XTR II 4-20 I had actually held CA pretty well, better than some more expensive scopes even so you might consider contacting Burris and telling them what's up and see what they can do for you. You'll need to look into the $2k+ category in order to find better control of CA, sometimes you can find these used for under $2k, but by and large they hold their value pretty well.

I've mentioned this on here before, but I wish I had noted it in my reply above. I have looked through all three versions of the XTR II, and it seemed at least to my eyes that the 4-20 and 3-15 had much cleaner optics than the 5-25, at least when turned up to max power. I think this is part of what drives such varying opinions on the glass quality on the XTR II line. The 5-25 that I looked through was very fuzzy around the edge and a bit clearer, but still hazy in the center at 25x. It improved by 20x, but I thought the 4-20 was clearer throughout than the 5-25.

But that's JMHO, and it could have just been that sample. But it was pretty rough, while both of its lower mag brethren were quite good.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

I can't comment on any updates, but anything cooking is most likely still out a ways. I certainly wouldn't put an optic purchase on hold for any scope manufacturer that has something around the corner. R&D and field testing takes time. Not to mention getting retooled and getting the final product to market.

I can speak to the current 4-20 however, and in full confidence say that everything I have seen lately has been pretty nice. All mine are under a year old, as well as couple that belong to friends of mine, and as I mentioned above, the glass is pretty good. Even WJM here on the boards said he was pretty impressed with the last one he looked through, and he sees a lot of good glass.

Thanks for the response. I've read your comments before on possible XTRII updates. I am leaning towards the 4-20 XTRII due to the reliability and SCR reticle

 

[Lionsbreath]

The Steiner T5Xi isn't more popular because of the terrible initial rollout of that line. Tracking sucked, ghost clicks, canted reticles, etc. They seem to have the bugs worked out now, but it still is a sour subject to some.

I have a 1st gen Steiner Military 4-16x50 on my 308, and for the used price right now, they are unbeatable in tracking, reliability, glass quality, and ruggedness. The only thing lacking is the reticle, but it is still very usable.

I kinda figured that’s what the deal was, I know resale probably won’t be that great and I decided to roll with it.. Burris is made by Steiner right?? I dig the XTR’s with what little I’ve shot on one - I would love to put a new one on my .223

 

[Wildcat0313]

Hey all, thanks for all of your responses. This is why I love the hide even if I’ve been lurking since pre Scout days; responses are typically thorough.

I’ll add some more info and my thoughts to some of these above briefly and may respond more when I get to a computer instead of mobile.

My XTR II is the 4-20x, I bought it from the reviews of clarity compared to the 25x. I may send it to Burris to see what they can do, it’s always an option.

Could contact lenses play into the perceived CA? I have lenses that also correct astigmatism and wonder if the angle of the glass could be causing the issue. If I turn slightly to change the angle of my eye it clears up. I don’t see this with my dad’s Leupold or Razor Gen 2.

As for pricing I qualify for mil discount programs so that is definitely helpful in my choice.

I got a chance to visit Athlon and did like the Chronus BTR and the new Ares ETR was great from a brief look. Definitely on my radar. I prefer the floating dot in the ETR (and other scopes) and the open center in Vortex stuff. The very fine center on non-I Bushnells is nice also.

Hadn’t considered the Steiner because of the horror stories at release. The DMR 2 Pro looks promising.

I’ll look at more when I get to my laptop. Again thanks for all the responses.

 

[Wildcat0313]

I’m also surprised with the lack of responses for the SIG. Is there just not much love out there for them? The Tango 6 is obviously packed with features, anyone have experience with the Tango 4?

 

[BoilerUP]

I own both the LRTSi 4.5-18x and the PST II 5-25x.

To my eyes, the Bushnell has better (ie. brighter, more resolution and 'pop') glass...but the PST II is only a smidge (albeit noticeable smidge) behind it.

 

[Birddog6424]

I kinda figured that’s what the deal was, I know resale probably won’t be that great and I decided to roll with it.. Burris is made by Steiner right?? I dig the XTR’s with what little I’ve shot on one - I would love to put a new one on my .223

That's close. Burris actually acquired Steiner. Beretta is the parent company of both.

Could contact lenses play into the perceived CA? I have lenses that also correct astigmatism and wonder if the angle of the glass could be causing the issue. If I turn slightly to change the angle of my eye it clears up. I don’t see this with my dad’s Leupold or Razor Gen 2.
.

As odd as it sounds, early on in the XTR II's life, there would be these weird anomalies where folks were having trouble getting the scope to focus properly. They would send it back to Burris, who could find nothing wrong. It even happened with a poster or two here on the forums.

They found that people with an astigmatism was the common factor in a bunch of those cases. Not sure what was the cause or the design of the scope that was causing it. Maybe the folks at Burris have figured it out. I really haven't seen that pop up for a couple years now.