Good news and not so good.

[Maggot]

The good:

Shot my Mossberg MPS LR in 6.5 Creedmoor for group the first time today. Did quite well for my first time, target at the bottom. Hornady 140 grain at 100 yds with a 8-10 mph gusting intermittent full cross wind, 6 shots. Then I ran out of the Hornady and switched to S&B and it opened up to about 1.5-2 moa on the next target. Love that Hornady


The not so good:

Also sighted in a Remington 700 24 inch barrel in 223. Using some Lake City 55 grain lead tipped 5.56. Shot pretty well got it to about 1.5-2 moa. Then I switched to some ' IMG Fabrica di Munitiones del Ejercito' group opened up to about 3 inches. So I think, lets quit fooling around and get down to the good stuff, some 62 grain green tip. Fuck me sideways, I couldnt get it on the paper. Tried a lot of elevation up and down and couldnt find the paper. Got so disgusted I put the rifle away before I wrapped it around a pipe and moved to the pistol range.

What was likely the problem? My AR's shoot the 62 grain like champs, they like it best and feed it best. Bolt gun not worth a damn. When money/prices allow I want to get some 77 grain match. Will that likely make a difference?

 

[kl3309]

How old is that 700? The 24" guns had 1-12 twist up until mid 90's. I had one that loved 52 gr. Matchkings on top of 26.2 gr. of AA2230. Currently have a 1-9 rifle that doesn't shoot anything better than moa.

 

[Supersubes]

The 62 is a pretty long bullet. My guess is not enough twist.

 

[Maggot]

How old is that 700? The 24" guns had 1-12 twist up until mid 90's. I had one that loved 52 gr. Matchkings on top of 26.2 gr. of AA2230. Currently have a 1-9 rifle that doesn't shoot anything better than moa.

A couple of years old. Varmint barrel. Ill have to check on the twist. If its 1-12 what would you recommend? 1-9?

 

[Maggot]

The 62 is a pretty long bullet. My guess is not enough twist.

So would you think they are all going way off but all in the same general area or just going all over the place?

 

[Maggot]

A quick Google search says ya'll are right its likely a 1-12. I reckon I need to get some match grade 55 grain (or lower) for this rifle and save the green tips for the AR. Thanks for the insight.

=========================================

From Chuck Hawkes:

Another peculiar rifling twist story involves the .223 Remington, called the 5.56mm NATO by the military. This cartridge was designed specifically for use with 55 grain spitzer bullets and its twist rate was originally specified as 1:14". This was later tightened to 1:12" for long range shooting, which works very well with bullets weighing 40-60 grains, the usual .22 centerfire bullet weight range.

Years later, the military decided they needed more penetration, so they increased the normal service cartridge bullet weight to 62 grains and some military cartridges use bullets at heavy as 77 grains. Meanwhile, some hunters could not resist trying their .223 rifles on small deer and they also used heavier bullets, up to about 70 grains.

The standard 1:12" twist could not properly stabilize these heavy bullets, so the military went to a 1:7" twist, designed to stabilize bullets weighing 62-77 grains. Most manufacturers of AR-15 type civilian rifles followed suit.

Unfortunately, 1:7" is too fast for frangible varmint bullets, so now we have two "standard" twist rates for .223 rifles: 1:12" for varmint rifles and 1:7" for military type rifles. The latter are often, but not always, stamped "5.56mm."

 

[fdkay]

A quick Google search says ya'll are right its likely a 1-12. I reckon I need to get some match grade 55 grain (or lower) for this rifle and save the green tips for the AR. Thanks for the insight.

=========================================

From Chuck Hawkes:

Another peculiar rifling twist story involves the .223 Remington, called the 5.56mm NATO by the military. This cartridge was designed specifically for use with 55 grain spitzer bullets and its twist rate was originally specified as 1:14". This was later tightened to 1:12" for long range shooting, which works very well with bullets weighing 40-60 grains, the usual .22 centerfire bullet weight range.

Years later, the military decided they needed more penetration, so they increased the normal service cartridge bullet weight to 62 grains and some military cartridges use bullets at heavy as 77 grains. Meanwhile, some hunters could not resist trying their .223 rifles on small deer and they also used heavier bullets, up to about 70 grains.

The standard 1:12" twist could not properly stabilize these heavy bullets, so the military went to a 1:7" twist, designed to stabilize bullets weighing 62-77 grains. Most manufacturers of AR-15 type civilian rifles followed suit.

Unfortunately, 1:7" is too fast for frangible varmint bullets, so now we have two "standard" twist rates for .223 rifles: 1:12" for varmint rifles and 1:7" for military type rifles. The latter are often, but not always, stamped "5.56mm."

Green tip is NOT known for accuracy and very few would consider it "the good stuff" even in a properly twisted barrel. If you don't reload, find yourself some white box winchester 45 grain varmint ammo. In normal times it is well priced and very accurate.

 

[Maggot]

Green tip is NOT known for accuracy and very few would consider it "the good stuff" even in a properly twisted barrel. If you don't reload, find yourself some white box winchester 45 grain varmint ammo. In normal times it is well priced and very accurate.

I reckon by 'good stuff' I meant that it has the penetrator and shoots really well in 1-7 twist AR.

Its definitely not 'normal times' though..crap, a buck around. Ill buy a few to try but have to wait before stocking up.

 

[BurnOut]

The .223 ammo that has for me been the most consistently accurate across multiple guns is Fiocchi 50 gr Vmax. If you can find/afford some, it has always been a great round for my friends and me.

 

[kl3309]

A couple of years old. Varmint barrel. Ill have to check on the twist. If its 1-12 what would you recommend? 1-9?

Doubt if you'll find any but Black Hills 52 gr. blue box does well in the 12 twist barrels. Don't think anything shoots well out of the 1-9, definitely wouldn't go below 55 gr. Mil. came up with that to handle 55 gr. tracers.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Like you discovered, it is probably a 1:12 twist. Not the best for long range but I've slayed a lot of prairie poodles with the 45 grain Vmax out of mine. It should stabilize the 53 Vmax as well which has a decent BC for what it is, and rivals a 22-250 if you push it hard.

 

[_Windrider_]

So I have a really dumb question. Most bolt guns are chambered for 223, is yours 556 or were you stuffing 556 rounds in your chamber? Or were you shooting handloads?

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Green tip and Good stuff are not typically used in the same sentence. Unless 2 moa is good stuff to you (and that's okay if it is ).
I guess you could use it in the same sentence, now that I think about it, "I bought green tip, because I couldn't find any good stuff."

 

[kl3309]

So I have a really dumb question. Most bolt guns are chambered for 223, is yours 556 or were you stuffing 556 rounds in your chamber? Or were you shooting handloads?

Remington's have such long throats, don't think it would make any difference.

 

[Maggot]

So I have a really dumb question. Most bolt guns are chambered for 223, is yours 556 or were you stuffing 556 rounds in your chamber? Or were you shooting handloads?

Not a dumb question, more likely a dumb action by me. It is chambered for 223 but I asked questions and most everyone said it should handle the 5.56 -62 grain. I think I learned my lesson, Ill find some lighter stuff. 45 or 52 grain.

 

[Evlshnngns]

I have a factory heavy 26" 12tw r700. It shoots the frontier 55gr hollow point match pretty well. Might not see that ammo on the shelf again. I loaded 55 soft points and 52's, the gun won't show me anything below .5moa. Most loads are at moa.

I like my 9 twist, works with 69grs and great with 55's. My 28" 7tw 223 shoots the 55gr frontier hp nice also, suprising.

 

[demolitionman]

I have a 1:12 twist .224 bore that loves 45 gr Winchester White box.

 

[Maggot]

I have a 1:12 twist .224 bore that loves 45 gr Winchester White box.

How does a 224 differ from a 223, other than the slight size difference. Can you interchange them or is that a big no-no...damage the rifle or worse, yourself?

 

[_Windrider_]

I have a factory heavy 26" 12tw r700. It shoots the frontier 55gr hollow point match pretty well. Might not see that ammo on the shelf again. I loaded 55 soft points and 52's, the gun won't show me anything below .5moa. Most loads are at moa.

I like my 9 twist, works with 69grs and great with 55's. My 28" 7tw 223 shoots the 55gr frontier hp nice also, suprising.

I’d stick with 223 and lighter bullets.

 

[kl3309]

How does a 224 differ from a 223, other than the slight size difference. Can you interchange them or is that a big no-no...damage the rifle or worse, yourself?

Bullet diameter is .224. Bore is .219 at the lands with grooves at .224.

Figure out the twist before you go crazy with the really lightweight stuff.

 

[elwarpo]

I also have a 1 in 12 barrel on a rifle and it likes the 50 grain American eagle, about 1-1 1/2 MOA

 

[Shoots 700's]

Yeah, greentip sucks.

 

[Supersubes]

Not a dumb question, more likely a dumb action by me. It is chambered for 223 but I asked questions and most everyone said it should handle the 5.56 -62 grain. I think I learned my lesson, Ill find some lighter stuff. 45 or 52 grain.

The question you asked a while back was more of a “can i shoot 5.56 ammo in a 223 bolt gun ” if i recall. That question is usually asked from chamber dimensions and load pressure standpoint. The answer is yes. The twist rate is a separate matter, and whats causing you the issues. If you got yourself some 5.56 M193 ammo(55gr), it would probably shoot fine.

 

[DIBBS]

If you can find it, 53 grain Hornady Vmax should shoot well in the 12 twist.

 

[Maggot]

Thanks to all who commented, Im lookning for some light grain 223. Unfortunately, at the moment, it seems to be made out of unaffordabletanium.

 

[S12A]

My 1:12 Rem 700 VSSF2 - loves Hornady TAP 60gn .

 

[Maggot]

My 1:12 Rem 700 VSSF2 - loves Hornady TAP 60gn .

Yeah but youre from down under where everything is upside down. LOL.

Thanks.