Gun Room Security

[earthquake]

Not sure where to put this, but I'm wanting to improve the security on my reloading room (finished basement room) and gun room. I do have a safe inside the room already that is anchored to a concrete floor. However, I do have a lot of stuff in there too that I don't want in the safe (ammo, powder) and valuables that won't fit.

Right now it just has a flimsy hollow-core door with a knob that locks from the inside only, like a bathroom door. I open it from the outside with an Allen wrench or anything pokey. It's just to keep the kids out and any nosy maintenance people that may be working down there etc.

Short of a vault door, what have you done, or could suggest? I'm thinking a solid core door, with a real lock and deadbolt, reinforced strike-plate with longer screws into the jamb. I know it could possibly still be breached, but it could maybe(?) be built to stop or at least slow down a determined thief. Right now my 7yo daughter can breach it if she tried. ??

Thanks in advance!

 

[ROCKKREEK]

Check into 1 hour fire rated garage doors,you can get them in metal skins

 

[b2lee]

So, there are no exterior doors? Just an interior from upstairs?

Question? How much are you looking to spend? How big of an opening is it? For about $450 at Home Depot you can get a 24-36" prehung solid core door and it is pretty easy to install....I installed 6 over the holidays in a rental house upgrading to a sell. If you can go a bit more...I'd get a metal commercial door designed for the exterior that is pre-hung in a metal casing at about $750 or so.

 

[isofahunter]

Long screws all around and a real lock. I am making the assumption you have standard walls in this room or at least one so going over board on door can be circumvented with a sledge hammer to the wall. Door change possibly as an additional impediment to entry like described above.

 

[264win]

If you have standard ( Sheetrock ) walls, there isn’t really any reason to do more than a solid core door with 4” screws and a real lock.

 

[earthquake]

So, there are no exterior doors? Just an interior from upstairs?

Question? How much are you looking to spend? How big of an opening is it? For about $450 at Home Depot you can get a 24-36" prehung solid core door and it is pretty easy to install....I installed 6 over the holidays in a rental house upgrading to a sell. If you can go a bit more...I'd get a metal commercial door designed for the exterior that is pre-hung in a metal casing at about $750 or so.

Yes, interior door at top of stairs, then the basement is divided into 3 separate rooms. Gun room is one of them. Normal walls...sheet rock, 2x4 studs etc. One tiny window that doesn't open in the room. 30"w x 13" h.

As far as spending, no real limit. Would like to keep it under $500 if possible. No sense spending big $$ if they can just smash through walls.

 

[earthquake]

Hmmmm..... might be easier to just get a bit better door, and put another safe inside. The room could still burn. ?

 

[HMRamateur]

My plans on my gun room include 2x4's galore, instead of every 16". They aren't expensive and can be added pretty easily to a wall that is already built. A wall of 2x4's is sturdy as hell and you aren't busting into it with a sledge hammer (as long as it isn't built like shit). Put a sturdy mag lock on a good door, with a dead bolt for good measure, and you have a room that will take just as much effort to get into as any safe, for a fraction of the cost and weight. You're fucked regardless if you have a fire unless you make the whole room out of concrete, including the roof.

 

[ZY100]

"My plans on my gun room include 2x4's galore, instead of every 16". They aren't expensive and can be added pretty easily to a wall that is already built. A wall of 2x4's is sturdy as hell and you aren't busting into it with a sledge hammer (as long as it isn't built like shit). Put a sturdy mag lock on a good door, with a dead bolt for good measure, and you have a room that will take just as much effort to get into as any safe, for a fraction of the cost and weight. You're fucked regardless if you have a fire unless you make the whole room out of concrete, including the roof. "


I did something like this and 1/4 ply under the drywall. Sure, somebody could break in, but some kids with sledgehammer are going to have a bit of work to do.

Also steel exterior door with 5" screws all around the frame...

ZY

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Solid fire door and the same kind of locks Seinfeld has on his apartment door.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

 

[mcfred]

Hmmmm..... might be easier to just get a bit better door, and put another safe inside. The room could still burn. ?

In a basement anywhere near a firefighters' station, fire is probably less of a concern than flood. If you install another safe, elevate it off the floor so when there is a fire the fighters/trucks don't drown your valueables.

 

[Geno C.]

With no $$ limit, it all boils down to what you want to stop.

Smash and grab? Solid Outswing door and good screws. Deadbolt on both sides is good protection from lifting the hinge pins.

Fire? Another safe, and maybe line the floors with drywall, and the door option should be upgraded to a commercial fire door.

A decent thief? A motion detecting ADT type system with a siren. The noise is the biggest deterrent

 

[Geno C.]

Never mind, reread that you’re in the basement. A water port ran to the curb will be your best bet in fire protection

 

[deersniper]

Eastern insurance is supposed to be good to go. You can insure guns Ammo scopes jewelry etc.
I don’t think thieves are going to carry out heavy ammo cans or jugs of powder. They want stuff they can fence.

You can get TL30s for $3000 now and then. Have to have a solid floor and a pallet jack or steel pipe to move them though.

 

[Hellbender]

Can you hide it behind some pegboard or something?

 

[just browsing]

Was going to say, a false or “hidden” door is easy enough to do with a bunch of old pallets. Vertical shiplap to hide the outline of the door, looks nice and is unsuspecting to smash and grabs.

Otherwise, reinforcing the wall along with a solid core door will do just fine to deter most thieves. Couple that with a safe inside and/or home security system and you’re protected from most common criminals.

Fact of the matter is, anyone determined enough and with enough time/proper tools can get through just about any door, wall, safe, etc. Layered security and limited response time will be your best protections.

 

[Rerun7]

Metal door with a good deadbolt, reinforced jams and 4” screws all around. It’s not like a vault door but no one is going to get into it without some tools better than a sledge hammer. Check out armor concepts and some of those videos. Pretty impressive for the cost.

As mentioned above though, you have to reinforce the walls as well or the door doesn’t matter.

With enough time people can get through anything so keep in mind that interior doors like this and even safes are only going to slow people down and your 1st tier security (alarm, etc) should have already alerted someone.

 

[shoobe01]

Security by obscurity (hiding stuff) is not to be relied on.

Layers are good:

Like: what if someone breaks in. Alarm type things work well to get a response. I hate most alarm companies, but you can fake it cheap now. Get a security camera (I use Wyze) and set for motion detecting. Have it send you an alert when it sees something. You can check in, and then know to call the cops, etc. etc.

I have an arms room with all my stuff behind a cage, with a camera also. Guns inside a second cage inside here. The camera is on a switch so I can shut it off, don't get constant alerts when I am there.


Think of the entire ecosystem also. E.g. When we're out of town, neighbors know, and people who stop by to grab stuff get questioned. I mean, the one shooting club guy who came to get the range keys while driving his marked local fire district pickup: got an urgent call from the neighbors to make sure that wasn't someone up to no good.

That's another layer.

 

[pyplynr]

I have a solid wood door and this commercial fingerprint reading handle. It keeps the kids and ol lady out and will keep the honest, honest. There is a safe inside for the big ticket items. May be something to look into to add to more security.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Yes, interior door at top of stairs, then the basement is divided into 3 separate rooms. Gun room is one of them. Normal walls...sheet rock, 2x4 studs etc. One tiny window that doesn't open in the room. 30"w x 13" h.

As far as spending, no real limit. Would like to keep it under $500 if possible. No sense spending big $$ if they can just smash through walls.

Well there you have it. no sense in spending money when they can smash through the wall with a fist easy as hell anyway.

 

[just browsing]

Well there you have it. no sense in spending money when they can smash through the wall with a fist easy as hell anyway.

Studded walls do not have to be expensive or difficult to reinforce.

 

[bubbadoc]

Build stud walls 12 inches on center then drill holes every 12 inches in each from floor to ceiling. Place rebar thru holes; this slows down the person trying to bash through the wall.

 

[earthquake]

I'm not interested in tearing down the current walls and rebuilding them. The other side of the walls is all built in cabinets and desk/cupboards all the way around anyway. It would be a major bitch to tear through all that for a would be thief.

Based on y'all's recommendations, I like the idea of a better door with at least a real lock and deadbolt, and some kind of motion alert camera system inside.

 

[jg6.5]

I'm not interested in tearing down the current walls and rebuilding them. The other side of the walls is all built in cabinets and desk/cupboards all the way around anyway. It would be a major bitch to tear through all that for a would be thief.

Based on y'all's recommendations, I like the idea of a better door with at least a real lock and deadbolt, and some kind of motion alert camera system inside.

Also don't forget, as I'm pretty sure I saw it mentioned above as well, but ditch all of the chintzy little 1" long screws that come with door hardware sets and get 3-4" long wood screws that reach plumb through to the framing as opposed to just the door jamb.

I've used these before:

GRK Fasteners | R4 Multi-Purpose Screw

GRK Fasteners

www.grkfasteners.com

Any big box retail home improvement store should have them or an equivalent. It's just a structural rated wood screw.

 

[Atomic donut]

My basement setup last me pretty good. I have to rebuild not after a home invasion left my wall collapsed. Heres some security footage of my reloading room during the incident.

 

[shoobe01]

You can double up walls. Add a second inside the room. Or even just reinforced wall panels (wire cage material, etc) screwed to existing studs instead of just drywall.

I have zero faith in essentially all electronic locks, and keys are too easy to get stolen, copied, lost, etc. I like the Simplex locks a lot. Pushbutton, so quick access, but all mechanical. Simplex 900 looks more or less like a normal deadbolt at a glance, and they are common enough in many parts of the world, it won't necessarily scream "high security" like some other lock arrangements might.

Do NOT buy a used or NOS one. A few of them had a (well known now to thieves) flaw for decades, so be sure to get a new made one (in sealed box, etc) to be sure you aren't getting a bad one unloaded on you.

 

[Winny94]

My plans on my gun room include 2x4's galore, instead of every 16". They aren't expensive and can be added pretty easily to a wall that is already built. A wall of 2x4's is sturdy as hell and you aren't busting into it with a sledge hammer (as long as it isn't built like shit). Put a sturdy mag lock on a good door, with a dead bolt for good measure, and you have a room that will take just as much effort to get into as any safe, for a fraction of the cost and weight. You're fucked regardless if you have a fire unless you make the whole room out of concrete, including the roof.

Ever demo'ed an existing wall? 2x4 vs seldge, sledge wins easily. puting them every 4 or 8 inches isnt much more of a deterrent.

 

[just browsing]

Ever demo'ed an existing wall? 2x4 vs seldge, sledge wins easily. puting them every 4 or 8 inches isnt much more of a deterrent.

Once again, the point is not so much to prevent someone from getting in. Anyone with enough determination and resources can get through just about anything.

Time and noise are the biggest deterrents in that situation. Are you eventually going to break through a reinforced wall with additional studs, steel mesh, concrete blocks, etc. using a sledgehammer? Yes, but that’s not the point. If it takes them 10 minutes instead of 2 to break through, don’t you think that will be enough for most common thieves to say that’s enough and split? Factor in cameras/alarms/whatever to notify you of unwanted activity, and that is sufficient for probably 99% of criminals.

Layers and response time. Those are the goals.

 

[HMRamateur]

Ever demo'ed an existing wall? 2x4 vs seldge, sledge wins easily. puting them every 4 or 8 inches isnt much more of a deterrent.

Crow bar and safe door isn't much of a deterrent either, unless you're investing thousands of dollars on a high end safe that will never leave the house. Like @just browsing mentioned, layers. A sturdy wall with 2x4's as close as an inch or two (you can slip through 8 inch gaps) will slow down a thief substantially. Placing your safe closer to the wall so there is no leverage to pry it open slows them down even more. Assuming there is an alarm system installed, the thief might not even make it past the wall if it takes more than a few minutes to get through.

You can try a "home alone" type security system with tar on the floor, or jelly/grease on objects to slow them down even more and anger them in the process.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm not interested in tearing down the current walls and rebuilding them. The other side of the walls is all built in cabinets and desk/cupboards all the way around anyway. It would be a major bitch to tear through all that for a would be thief.

Based on y'all's recommendations, I like the idea of a better door with at least a real lock and deadbolt, and some kind of motion alert camera system inside.

As someone who's been in the home remodeling business all their life and done hundreds of demo's, I can tell you that's a false sense of security. We broke all the cabinets down in place since it's easier to carry out pieces than full cabinets and we typically wouldn't even take out a power tool until the backs of the cabinets are coming off the wall. We'd only unscrew those because it would wear up the studs ripping the screws out, or the screws would break off. Coming through the back side of the wall I could kick myself through in no more than 30 seconds if I wanted and the average person can slip through 16" center studs.

Upgrading the door on a existing jam isn't going to do squat even with extended striker plates.

The most cost effective way to add a marginal level of security that would require some noise to be made, would require tools, and give LE a chance to answer an alarm would be to reinforce all of the interior walls of the room with two layers of 1/2" plywood that's screwed to the studs, and glued to the studs with construction adhesive. Then a heavy duty STEEL in swing door and jams installed on a reindorced opening with doubled up floor to sealing studs on each side with 6" screws. There are also some steel doors on the market that the jam screws/bolts together.

Drilling holes in the studs and installing rebar is terrible advice. Drilling holes up and down studs weakens it significantly to the point that most men can break it with a kick. I'm 5'6" and 160lbs and I can break a stud that has a single hole bored through it with a kick, more holes will just make it easier. The strength of a studded wall is going to come from how many studs there are, how wide they are, and how you surface the wall.

It wouldn't be much trouble at all to pull those cabinets off the wall, demo the drywall, install two layers of 1/2" OSB, and then install/finish drywall over that, and rehang the cabinets.

 

[just browsing]

As someone who's been in the home remodeling business all their life and done hundreds of demo's, I can tell you that's a false sense of security. We broke all the cabinets down in place since it's easier to carry out pieces than full cabinets and we typically wouldn't even take out a power tool until the backs of the cabinets are coming off the wall. We'd only unscrew those because it would wear up the studs ripping the screws out, or the screws would break off. Coming through the back side of the wall I could kick myself through in no more than 30 seconds if I wanted and the average person can slip through 16" center studs.

Upgrading the door on a existing jam isn't going to do squat even with extended striker plates.

The most cost effective way to add a marginal level of security that would require some noise to be made, would require tools, and give LE a chance to answer an alarm would be to reinforce all of the interior walls of the room with two layers of 1/2" plywood that's screwed to the studs, and glued to the studs with construction adhesive. Then a heavy duty STEEL in swing door and jams installed on a reindorced opening with doubled up floor to sealing studs on each side with 6" screws. There are also some steel doors on the market that the jam screws/bolts together.

Drilling holes in the studs and installing rebar is terrible advice. Drilling holes up and down studs weakens it significantly to the point that most men can break it with a kick. I'm 5'6" and 160lbs and I can break a stud that has a single hole bored through it with a kick, more holes will just make it easier. The strength of a studded wall is going to come from how many studs there are, how wide they are, and how you surface the wall.

It wouldn't be much trouble at all to pull those cabinets off the wall, demo the drywall, install two layers of 1/2" OSB, and then install/finish drywall over that, and rehang the cabinets.

Question, what are the advantages of an in-swing door vs. out-swinging?

 

[jrhtx]

Friend built his gun room upstairs behind a closet. The door was hidden behind a bookshelf that was hinged like a door. The gun room door has an electric deadbolt "rod" for lack of a better term, 3/4"-1" CRS that locked the door. If you got in, he found place that sells a CS bottle that has a motion detector on it. You punch in a code like an alarm system or it dumps the bottle in the room after a set time from motion detection.

This isn't it but something like it:

Burglar Blaster | The do it yourself anti-burglary system

 

[HMRamateur]

Question, what are the advantages of an in-swing door vs. out-swinging?

There could be more, but I know an in swinging door is limited by the strength of the door handle/latch, and the hole it sits in in the frame. If you were to kick the door in, that's all that's preventing it from swinging open. If it is an out swinging door, you have the door jamb as added support from a hit, which can be beefed up if you aren't confident in its strength.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Question, what are the advantages of an in-swing door vs. out-swinging?

Hinge location. If the door swings out of the room the hinges will be on the same side and you pop 3 pins out and it doesn’t matter how many dead bolts you have on the other side or how strong the jam is because that’s all you’ll have to do to gain access to the room. In swing you lose some jam strength, but the hinges are on the inside of the room and not accessible. With a high quality steel security door and jam you don’t lose enough jam strength that someone is going to easily defeat it aside from having a huge pry bar (and be able to get it in to pry) or have a ram.

With that said, I’ve seen some security doors that incorporate welded/solid hinge pins that can’t be easily removed, as well as a couple with some active bolts, but the majority of them use standard hinges/pins.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

There could be more, but I know an in swinging door is limited by the strength of the door handle/latch, and the hole it sits in in the frame. If you were to kick the door in, that's all that's preventing it from swinging open. If it is an out swinging door, you have the door jamb as added support from a hit, which can be beefed up if you aren't confident in its strength.

Yes out swing adds some strength for the jam from kicking/ramming but a good steel security doorjam is plenty strong on an in swing that someone isn’t going to kick it open or ram it with their shoulder.

In swing adds more security because the hinges are protected on the inside which is the easiest point to defeat on a security door. An out swing door is also easier to get a pry bar into to pry the door open.

In swings are better for security doors.

If you want the best of both worlds then you do a in swing steel security door and jam and then add a out swing security gate to it.

 

[krimet]

I agree with the camera suggestion. I basically have them on my front and back yard, the entry points into my house and anywhere that I want to see more (example: looking straight towards the door that someone would have to come through to find the gun safes). They're on a motion detection setup so that I get an alert on my phone if they pick anything up. The goal is to know as early as possible if someone is in my house. After that the physical deterrents (safes, locks, etc) should slow them down long enough for LE to at least scare them out.

 

[Milemarker28]

I would look into a impacted rated inswing exterior door (most box stores either stock something or can order one). I would then order a jamb brace (YouTube), a couple of guys out of Overland Park, KS make a good cost effective product. Then beef up your walls in the process. Layers is the ticket as most have mentioned.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Build stud walls 12 inches on center then drill holes every 12 inches in each from floor to ceiling. Place rebar thru holes; this slows down the person trying to bash through the wall.

Hard to retrofit that bud

 

[Corprin]

I just moved to a low crime area, in an unassuming house, in a neighborhood that is hard to get in/out/navigate, with lots of friendly/close neighborhood watch types that are on guard 24/7. I don’t post pictures or discuss my security measures, and made it so if someone unfortunately found their way into my stash... they know it’s probably in their best interest to leave quickly.

 

[sleeplz]

I bought furniture that looks obscure where I can hide toys inside of it. I also don't let people know what I own and I make sure to cover my guns when I bring them to my car.

 

[shields shtr]

Have you considered just disguising your door? I built a pretty cool "bookcase" door that actually turned out amazing. Takes some semi-decent carpentry skills, but nothing mind boggling. It only works though if the location is right and it fits in with other components of the room.

Or: https://murphydoor.com/products/flu...MIo8b-_MPm5gIVWx-tBh1H7w2ZEAQYASABEgImQfD_BwE

 

[Datsrboi]

I know this sounds weird but its not much of a security but its good to know who is going into the room when it does happen. I install a ring camera facing towards the door. any movement of the door will start recording and notify me asap . from there its easier to take action. a strong door alone does nothing now days. a ring camera can be had for 60 bucks at home depot

 

[Arc Light]

 

[mcfred]

Question, what are the advantages of an in-swing door vs. out-swinging?

Hinge location [on out-swinging doors].

I know it's not common but there are some security doors that have a lip that engages the door jam closest to the hinges when closed, similar to the non-moving bolts on a floor safe. Most residential security containers have external hinges. Regarding the aforementioned securtiy door, when the door is closed, the lip is engaged in a groove and the door is no longer dependant on the hinges to keep closed.

Additionally, if the hinge locations are not a concern then an out-swinging door provides more floor space inside a potentially costly secure space. With an in-swinging door you lose 9+ square feet to the door itself.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I know it's not common but there are some security doors that have a lip that engages the door jam closest to the hinges when closed, similar to the non-moving bolts on a floor safe. Most residential security containers have external hinges. Regarding the aforementioned securtiy door, when the door is closed, the lip is engaged in a groove and the door is no longer dependant on the hinges to keep closed.

Additionally, if the hinge locations are not a concern then an out-swinging door provides more floor space inside a potentially costly secure space. With an in-swinging door you lose 9+ square feet to the door itself.

If you read my entire post you'd see at the bottom that I said there are some designs like that with some sort of bolt, but most of them don't have it. Most use standard hinges.

RSC external hinges and standard door external hinges are apples to oranges. RSC hinges don't have a pin through them that you can just pop out like a door. Those hinges only need a screwdriver, punch, or just about any other similar object and a whack to the back to pop the pins out. On an RSC with external hinges you have to open the door and then lift the door off the pins. Completely different designs.

Who's going to pack a room full of shit right up to the point of where the jam is? That's fucking retarded. There's reasons why in swing doors are spec'd for pretty much every room except for closets. Don't be a pack rat/slob and it's not a concern. The door has to open one way or another, so you're going to lose that space regardless, it's a retarded argument.

 

[earthquake]

Have you considered just disguising your door? I built a pretty cool "bookcase" door that actually turned out amazing. Takes some semi-decent carpentry skills, but nothing mind boggling. It only works though if the location is right and it fits in with other components of the room.

Or: https://murphydoor.com/products/flu...MIo8b-_MPm5gIVWx-tBh1H7w2ZEAQYASABEgImQfD_BwE

That's really cool, but I think it is obvious that there's a room down there to anyone looking. Or perhaps I'm giving too much credit to thieves? ?

 

[MotorOilMcCall]

Don't know your budget, but there's been some really good suggestions here already.

First things first, get a garage rated fire door... provides security more-so than a hollow core door you can kick through, and gives you the extra time in case of a small fire near the room. A hollow core door will burn through in minutes. A good lock set is worth the money too, either with the fingerprint scanner, or code.

My boom room is a basement root cellar, so solid concrete walls on 3 sides, the door is a steel garage door, with a concrete 2" lipped threshold (keeps from rusting in case my basement floor weeps or floods). The walls are 1x4 rough cut on the outside (matches the original root cellar on the opposite side of the house), and 5/8" T&G decking OSB inside. The safe is on a 6" block raised section, bolted to the bottom, and the wall behind it. There's no point in securing the safe more than that... anyone who really wants to get in can bring an angle grinder and cut through the pins in about 10 minutes and get inside anyway.

The 5/8" OSB does 2 things... keeps someone from kicking through the drywall, and gives you a nice, solid mount for anything you want to hang from the walls (can always switch to 3/8-7/8" sheet as necessary).

Lastly, I've moved all of my flammables to a wall mounted (up off the floor) flammables cabinet that does lock with a key (no reason for anyone else to get in there, ever). I screwed it right to the OSB on the wall.

I love the hidden door idea, and have a few spots I've put in similar cubbies in my house as I've done renovations. No amount of "Security" is unbeatable (within a homeowners reason anyway). If a thief thinks they've found all the valuables, they're going to move on fairly quickly.

Good camouflage is usually better than good armor!

 

[alicea8541]

@earthquake new house? I won't be available for the moving party.

 

[christopher.dow]

Cameras an alarm systems are good ideas. Be careful with cameras. Wyze has had some very significant cybersecurity breaches, as has Ring. Nest has better security, but bear in mind that the last time they had to report separate financials from the rest of Alphabet (Google's parent company), they had a loss of nearly $1B. Google only loses money on experimental projects and products where they get something of value in exchange for the loss. In Nest's case, it's a good bet that thing is data from the devices that they can use to generate revenue. Many of the inexpensive cameras are made by Xiaomi or Dahua, which both have significant Chinese government ownership, and both send a good deal of data back to Alibaba's cloud servers.

Any HomeKit camera is a good security bet, and Arlo doesn't sell ads or diapers, so they at least don't have motivation to play loose with your data. No matter what, keep in mind that whatever video is generated from that camera is going to be stored on the internet in a place where someone (at least you) can get it. So think about where you're pointing it.