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GunsAmerica supports TR law suit against the Hide

Again, the support has been huge, even with me shutting down the crowd funding people are stepping up and offering to give, totally awesome outpouring of support.

James, thanks for coming on and leaving us a note of support, the industry is really stepping up to help.

I would totally recommend hitting up sponsors since Guns America and Paul Helinski (who still never called) have chosen to not only pick sides but to feed the frivolous nature of this suit by knowingly spread false information about me and site. They are part of the problem, doesn't matter there is no legal standing for this law suit and it will be thrown out, the fact they are pretending to not know this and push the agenda that some how we are obligated to give Tactical Rifles a voice here, or to cave to remove the negative posts all which have been started by their customers.

If we can't let customer reviews and videos stand, than what is the point. All this is about is the fact you can easily find so much negative about Tactical Rifles here and they can't suppress that message. As was pointed out, there is an easy fix when a problem comes up with a customer or build, "We see the problem, a call tag is in and we are here to tell the community, we are taking care of it" problem solved. Instead what Tactical Rifles and Guns America have said to you, the potential customer rifle buyer is, "If it's not what you expected, no matter what you paid, you have an unrealistic expectation if you find a problem because we don't make mistakes" . All the guys who have posted about their negative experience with Tactical Rifles are just Disgruntled Customers according to them.

Guns America has put out a bought and paid for hit piece on us over this, so see who is sponsoring them and contact them to let them know this sort of bad behavior is not gonna be tolerated.

Again, thanks for the support each and every positive comment matters. You can't hide from this anymore David Rooney, and having your bought and paid for buddy write a negative hit piece about us is not gonna change the fact, you have no legal basis for your bullshit and we all see it. Abusing the legal system with a frivolous lawsuit designed to suppress our opinions and experience is not gonna be taken lightly. Not by Me, Not by this site, and not by anyone in the community who is not on your favor list.
 
Lowlight,
I am not a machinist. I know several tool and die maker machinist. I asked them about the video even though what is currently up is a short edited version. They all stated the same thing "incompetent machining"!
I have never had the Pleasure of meeting you in person, my loss I'm sure. I have been on this site for a long time. I was one of those in the Big discussion on the Passion of the Christ. I was one of the reasons that open discussion got shut down. I have been in more that one thread where I was either on the red line over it at times. Heck I'm one of the guys who PM you the photo of the Sex Dwarf patch on Facebook. I have never encountered any thing but complete integrity and Professionalism from YOU and your MODERATORS!
I and many hide members want you to know that we support what you are doing. You are standing up for the End Users of products. You are standing up for those who don't have a voice to make the changes for the innovations and quality upgrades that this community need and benefits from.

Thank You.
Even from the cheap seats back here you look 10' tall for standing up and doing this!
Finris (Nathaniel Milam"
 
For someone who claims he is not taking sides he sure looks like he has squared off with Frank and has TR behind him. Maybe someone has a hand in his back and is pulling the puppet strings.
The one thing that stands out to me is the comment from TR that they have no control over what a customer may do to their product. Yes this is true. I don't know too many people that will lay down that much for a rifle and use it to hammer in tomato stakes. It seems as though he is saying it was in great shape when we handed it to the UPS/FedEx/USPS guy. Not our problem. I am sure he may have some very satisfied customers. Whatever happened to this one only a few people know. But to come up with this great conspiracy theory is mind blowing.
 
Its between SnipersHide and TR. Why again is GA in the middle of this??? If they have no financial interest, maybe its personal. Are David Rooney and Paul Helinski butt buddies?
 
I think there is a financial interest. At the bottom of the article below the comments there is a statement that GA supports TR's suit against the hide and a link for donations. I wonder what percentage they get for raising funds. Kinda like those feed the kids in Africa deals. We send 10 cents of every dollar we raise to feed the kids the other 90 is to pay for salaries and expenses. The butt buddies is just a bonus.
 
Admittedly, this is my first exposure to any of this.
I watched the video, then read the article.
Did the numbnuts who wrote the article watch the video?

"Then it goes on to admit that the rifle is 1/2MOA, which would be impossible without top notch workmanship, methods and materials." - Did the fact that the rifle was shooting 1/2 MOA AFTER all of the corrective work was done completely get by him?

I've seen Frank speaking in a couple of videos here over the years.
The voice in the video sounds nothing like him. Zero.
The video voice is clearly taller and more articulate.

Good luck. I'll help in any way I can with defense funding.
 
Lowlight said:
I will be responding to this trash, whether they actually do or not, this is not over.

He makes the veiled claim I was on the video... false. No where near it.

He claims David Rooney's account was deleted, false. He never made one and deleting an account does not block. In fact since 2008 when I protected Tactical Rifles on here against a disgruntled worker, David Rooney has NEVER made any attempt to contact me. Unless you count the letter from his attorney in 2010 threatening to sue the site then. He knows how to reach me and in fact was standing 3ft from me at SHOT last year. David Rooney is playing the victim and this will back fire as the system doesn't work like he thinks.

Paul calls me a Parasite, that is not gonna end well, he refers to me as an arm chair expert, well I will put my resume against his any day.

This opens up the door. I am crafting a response and don't be surprised Mr Helinski if your deposition is not taken as well. See how you like it.

Nope, we're on it...
Click to expand...

Hiring VJJPunisher as your lawyer? :D
 
I may be wrong, but I do believe that if one wanted to drag this out and pile up the attorney fees on Mr Rooney the financial backing is there. How long did it take to cover the legal fees once Frank opened up the account? A matter of hours? I wonder just how much TR is willing to sink into this before they walk away? Is Rooney ready/willing to go all in? I'd be very very careful if I were Mr Helinsky as well. The Hide is not to be fucked with, I think that has become clear in the last few days.

Rooney and GA may have more money than they can spend, may not. I don't know the financial status of either, nor do I care to. I'm pretty confident that as long as the need is there, we can no doubt go dollar for dollar with either one as a collective.
 
I submitted a comment. It's up for moderator approval.
I have a GA account, but it's been years since I even used the site. GB is just a better put together site IMHO.

"Your comment is awaiting moderation.

What a pathetic display of middle school level idiocy!

I watched the video and found it to be informative and well-presented. It didn’t present anything but the opinion of what was clearly a highly skilled gunsmith and machinist, as he took apart and examined the work of a so-called professional. If your work can’t stand up to the scrutiny of your peers, then you are clearly in the wrong profession.

So what if it happened to get posted to the Snipers Hide site?
Frank didn’t produce the video, and that is most certainly not his voice on it. Anyone who has ever heard him speak would immediately know that.
Wind Lesson Teaser - Sniper's Hide - YouTube

Suing someone for stating facts, or even their opinion, isn’t the path to redemption. Produce quality work, and let it do the talking. There is no libel in the truth."
 
A true shame what TR and GA have brought into the firearms industry, with morals such as theirs, they would fit better in another field far away from firearms, septic service comes to mind...

I've never used GA and never will, GunBroker kills them for ease of use and a much better built site.

I hope they both go down.

Frank, while I'm not a big dealer by any means, if I can help, let me know, you have my full support.
 
Tomorrow is Monday, (Duh) comments are supposed to be active on GA, so fill them into the facts of the matter. No personal attacks, just the truth, they crossed the line and are alone in their defense of TR.

Send a message, if they continue to delete your comments, a message to their sponsors will help make the point.

Frivolous lawsuits will not be tolerated ... Using the court because you think you are being unfairly targeted is not how it works, he could have reached out anytime but decided to hide behind his lawyer and then use the courts to silence the real world experiences of not me, but his customers.

They can can paint me as a bully, but his BBB score doesn't lie, the list of customer complaints is not make believe and a company is not defined by their success but rather how they handle their problems. Blaming the customer, blaming their vendors, these are common lines of defense. Yet we have just as many examples of how to do it right and none start or finish with an attack on the customer who just paid top dollar.

They picked the fight, not once but twice now. He could have called but instead....
 
Lowlight said:
He was crowing about emailing his masterpiece of fairness to his masses.
Click to expand...

So in essence he said please don't comment till I have time to reach out to all my ball danglers first and tell them to be there on Monday for an us verse them showdown that will make my hits that day skyrocket since my site is a fucking joke I will be able to brag to my beard in the mirror that I am awesome?
 
He leaves out a lot in his critique of the video.

-Gritty substance in threads (looks like lapping compound to me)
- Poorly timed brake
- How the bed prep work appeared to be done with a chainsaw
- Cheap and shallow allen screws
- Action screw threads encased in bedding material to the point that they weren't free-floating
- Lack of pillar contact
- The chamber being 3.5 thousandths off center

My very first bedding job was better than the one shown in the video, which was likely well past their 1000th.

Even what he does address about the barrel threads is BS. Watch the video, and you'll see the slop in the threads even when the barrel is just a few threads shy of the receiver is still ridiculous.

Promoting and sharing this video is not helping their case at all. Not that they even had one, but damn! How stupid do you have to be to broaden the audience on damning evidence?
 
If that email is coming from GA it will be my absolute pleasure to receive it and craft a response, outlining the points I've made in this thread.
What a moron.
 
I opted out of all future correspondence from GA..... There isn't a "hint" of journalism in the blog of TR vs SH.
 
I didn't read all the replies, just scanned who the author was. I posted on there Friday afternoon and got the "waiting for moderation" crap. Still is not posted today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've been trying to figure out why an American company would behave as tacticalrifles.net has. All common sense explanations have been ruled out... and the reason eluded me.

Then I realized Dave Rooney is british.

At that point, I realized I've never met a british person that I could trust. They all had this manner of snobbish elitism about them. This all makes perfect sense really. Anyone know if Rooney is even a citizen?
 
"That big scary marine at TSH is threatening to put a hurtin on me right here in my facebook messages because I turned the tables on his fake legal defense fund. How many people think I should be shaking in my boots?"


Paul has officially gone FULL RETARD.
 
tucker301 said:
He's trying to rally support on Facebook now too.
I just dumped all of my thoughts on there. Suggest others with FB accounts do the same.

https://www.facebook.com/gunsamerica
Click to expand...
My response:

Funny, I can take a rifle from TS Customs Precision Firearms and put it in a box for 4 years... and when I take it out, it will look just like the day it went in. How old something is doesn't magically make it eat its own bedding compound and stock, nor does it put sand blasting media into the action threads or cause the bolt knob to bend on its own. If I did go to TS Customs after 4 years with problems, they wouldn't tell me to go pound sand. Rather, they'd do everything in the world to help me get the situation resolved. They certainly wouldn't launch a lawsuit against the forum where I shared my experiences. Far too many complaints against TR on far too many different websites for them to ALL be false. GA and TR, you both alienated a HUGE segment of the marketplace with this stunt. I think you'll find that it was very ill advised.
 
The work in that video speaks for itself, Res Ipsa Loquitur. The fact this "case", a term I use VERY lightly, is about bullying and not the veracity of the video says even more.

Appreciate the heads up Guns America has given here, now I know to never to do business with TR or them, companies I previously had no idea were so poorly run.

Doing business with people who are emotion driven over fact or customer service driven, or refuse to use even basic common sense in the middle of a conflict which promoting that video demonstrates a complete lack of (both in terms of what PR 'smith work is and basic internet marketing), is always more of a pain in the ass than it is worth.
 
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I just read that, after I made this comment, "Yeah, if I'd discovered the shoddy work that he did I would have requested a full refund, four years old or not. That's the thing about incompetence. There is no expiration date."

I guess he's feeling bullied right now. :rolleyes:
 
Lowlight said:
He is slowly approving posts, but everything from the weekend was deleted, including several of mine when talking to him which is why some stuff seems disjointed
Click to expand...
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

hypocrite.jpg
 
I've been a member of GA for sometime now but this mornings GA Blog was all I needed to make me cancel my Account (It's not like I ever bought anything there anyway) but before leaving I wrote a comment expressing my displeasure with him turning a Internet Gun Store into a Liberal like whining Blog (Love Letter to TR ) about his Hiney Riding Rifle Building Butt Buddy getting Bullied on the Internet by The Hide. At first I thought it was a joke of some sort but then it hit me that he was serious and since his Buddy was too smart to do his own talking because there is an ongoing Lawsuit that he has decided to speak for him. Needless to say it was full of BS and I expect that the Judge will toss it in the interest of justice. I also said that internet forums were a place where like minded people gather to discuss their common interest's, In this case Custom Built Long Range Rifles. I said that if you have questionable Quality Standards sooner or later you will get called on it, especially at the price point they go for. So what's the Big Deal? The Builder got outed just like many before him and I'm sure many to come. I guess the two of them have thin skin. All I have to really say is it's a shame when any builder gets called out over his quality by way more than one customer that he goes after our site owner for orchestrating a movement to put him out of business. He seems to be doing a good job of it all on his own. I guess everyone in the world checks with the Hide before they consider even buying a Long Range Rig? The only thing that worries me is if the Judge is a Progressive Liberal and it's a suit between two Pro Gun Sites He may let it go to court so the Lame Stream Media can twist the story around into a suitable Horror Story of some sort. Sorry I guess I had more to say than I thought, I just get mouthy when I'm pissed. Oh, GA deleted my comment, so I guess he's not a supporter of the 1st Amendment either... Nuff Said
 
The Hit Piece Theory -

Posted to the FB discussion.

"Let's examine the hit piece theory for a moment.

Essentially, what you're saying is that someone took a well built rifle from TR, tore it apart, dorked up the bedding and relief work, recut the chamber off center, cut the barrel down so the transition from the brake looked like it was done by Helen Keller, mis-indexed the brake, under cut the barrel threads, dremeled down the mag release tab (Helen Keller again), put it all back together, re-ceracoated the whole thing, and then made a video showing all of these flaws and wrongly accused TR of being responsible for it?

OK. I understand your theory now. And I think I know who the anonymous videographer is too.
It has to be the Easter Bunny, because Santa's elves would do better work."
 
Wait. I just read that these things, ugly as they may be, shoot Minute of Cheeto!?
That's like 1/8 duck!
I'm placing my order today!
 
tucker301 said:
Wait. I just read that these things, ugly as they may be, shoot Minute of Cheeto!?
That's like 1/8 duck!
I'm placing my order today!
Click to expand...

For Cheetos, or a duck?

And no, just so everyone can calm down a notch, that wasn't me over there spouting off.

Obviously, I have an admirer whose infatuation dare not speak its name. I don't swing that way, but I'll send a hung camel over to satisfy them if it'll get them the hell off my jock.
 
Veer_G said:
For Cheetos, or a duck?

And no, just so everyone can calm down a notch, that wasn't me over there spouting off.

Obviously, I have an admirer whose infatuation dare not speak its name. I don't swing that way, but I'll send a hung camel over to satisfy them if it'll get them the hell off my jock.
Click to expand...


LMFAO!! I come back and someone "impersonated" veer and I get framed. Whoever did that shit has my utmost respect. LMAO!


ejoijvm.jpg
 
Veer_G said:
For Cheetos, or a duck?

And no, just so everyone can calm down a notch, that wasn't me over there spouting off.

Obviously, I have an admirer whose infatuation dare not speak its name. I don't swing that way, but I'll send a hung camel over to satisfy them if it'll get them the hell off my jock.
Click to expand...

So that was not you that said "Snipershide is full of internet snipers, and google commandos. I think most are fat guys wearing turbans in their mom’s basement. I challenge anyone on the hide to a shoot off with my TR built cheeto cannon." and then told me "Wesley I am on snipershide. I will be in the shoutbox if you wanna come run your suck.."?
 
I posted a comment over there that was a direct response to the administrator that explains how he in fact is doing exactly what he accuses Frank of doing. The hypocrisy is so blatant it is absurd.

he has the audacity to claim that if the case is dismissed for lack of merit that somehow this is frank trying to get out of a deposition. What?? There is a legal threshold for a reason to protect freedom of speech and so clowns like TR cant extort money from everyone like a gunsmith form of al sharpton.

My comment didn't make it past moderation or was deleted. This guy is a cowardly punk. My consolation is that with every comment he deletes he must feel a little more cowardly.

Looks like the commie "social justice" crap has infected at least part of the gun world over at GA. It's like a disease... Feelings more important than facts and truth. These morons supporting GA are pissed because they get on here at SH and someone who knows what they are talking about tells them they are morons and they get butt hurt instead of learning something.
 
JWR075 said:
So that was not you that said "Snipershide is full of internet snipers, and google commandos. I think most are fat guys wearing turbans in their mom’s basement. I challenge anyone on the hide to a shoot off with my TR built cheeto cannon." and then told me "Wesley I am on snipershide. I will be in the shoutbox if you wanna come run your suck.."?
Click to expand...

Not in the least. Want me to repeat that?
 
Easy now, just wanting to make sure before I expose this person for being a liar. I was hoping that someone from SH would not post comments like that but one must always make sure.

Veer_g, I hope you did not take me asking as an attack, but this is the two comments that were made in reference to the conversation between myself and the person calling themselves Veer_g along with a person stating you were talking about me over here.

Veer_g February 24, 2014 at 1:45 pm

"Wesley I am on snipershide. I will be in the shoutbox if you wanna come run your suck.."

And then I read this.

Maser February 24, 2014 at 7:26 pm

Wesley, I would not advise challenging Veer_g. He is already on Sniper’s Hide calling you out and laughing at you.

So as you can see, I was doing nothing but verifying that you would not be attacking someone from SH. Just goes to show what type of people support GA.
 
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JWR075 said:
Easy now, just wanting to make sure before I expose this person for being a liar. I was hoping that someone from SH would not post comments like that but one must always make sure.

Veer_g, I hope you did not take me asking as an attack, but this is the two comments that were made in reference to the conversation between myself and the person calling themselves Veer_g along with a person stating you were talking about me over here.

Veer_g February 24, 2014 at 1:45 pm

"Wesley I am on snipershide. I will be in the shoutbox if you wanna come run your suck.."

And then I read this.

Maser February 24, 2014 at 7:26 pm

Wesley, I would not advise challenging Veer_g. He is already on Sniper’s Hide calling you out and laughing at you.

So as you can see, I was doing nothing but verifying that you would not be attacking someone from SH. Just goes to show what type of people support GA.
Click to expand...

I got your PM, Wesley, and replied. It's quite likely that the people identifying themselves as me and as Maser as well over on GA are in fact one and the same shitbird. Frank knows the situation and my true feelings about TR, as well, so there's no issue there. FWIW, if GA were to give Frank the IPs of the fake me and the possibly fake Maser (let's face it, I could see him doing this), a comparison between the numbers and the logs here might prove interesting.

Folks, the shit is serious enough between Frank and TR. This isn't an after-school fight at the flag pole, so let it well the fuck enough alone so that this can get resolved without any extraneous stupidity. It may be funny to you, but this is Frank's rice bowl, so please, and I'll ask nicely, treat it with the attitude and care that it deserves.
 
Veer_G said:
I got your PM, Wesley, and replied. It's quite likely that the people identifying themselves as me and as Maser as well over on GA are in fact one and the same shitbird. Frank knows the situation and my true feelings about TR, as well, so there's no issue there. FWIW, if GA were to give Frank the IPs of the fake me and the possibly fake Maser (let's face it, I could see him doing this), a comparison between the numbers and the logs here might prove interesting.

Folks, the shit is serious enough between Frank and TR. This isn't an after-school fight at the flag pole, so let it well the fuck enough alone so that this can get resolved without any extraneous stupidity. It may be funny to you, but this is Frank's rice bowl, so please, and I'll ask nicely, treat it with the attitude and care that it deserves.
Click to expand...
Veer, you and maser need to ban together, sort of like batman and robin!
 
orkan said:
I've been trying to figure out why an American company would behave as tacticalrifles.net has. All common sense explanations have been ruled out... and the reason eluded me.

Then I realized Dave Rooney is british.

At that point, I realized I've never met a british person that I could trust. They all had this manner of snobbish elitism about them. This all makes perfect sense really. Anyone know if Rooney is even a citizen?
Click to expand...
I'm not defending Rooney here, only the British. Some of the finest, most humble warriors I've ever worked with were British Army or Royal Marines. I had a Brit SgtMaj help me carry my kit a click and a half across Bastion in the September heat after I came off one of their Chinooks, just to show me where the pax terminal was. I had exchanged a whole five sentences with him prior to that and had done nothing for his soldiers in my mission, just a lowly contractor doing a security assessment. Another unit took me clean out to Now Zad by ground from Lash, a lovely neighborhood just before poppy harvest time when the Taliban are really concerned about us messing with their crop, and they did it with a smile despite pending a RIP the very next week. I've seen and experienced FAR more attitudes and snobbery from Americans (mil and civilian alike) over here than any other nationality. I could go on and on with stories about that...

I prefer to put the blame on the individuals, not stereotype an entire nationality.
 
This horse shit popped up on my Facebook page this morning.

https://www.facebook.com/TacticalYellowVisor

I've read the author's work in gun rags. I have seen TR's ads in those rags. Sometimes several of them. Unfortunately, my favorite magazines, Handloader and Rifle (Wolfe Publishing) often also have several of their ads. I hope these two mags stay out of this as I will miss reading them if so.

I followed the exchange between Frank and the GA fanboy and it is truly a disgusting display of accusation followed by stubborn refusal to acknowledge factual rebuttal on Frank's part. It reminded me of episodes of Cops where the most palpable horse shit was maintained by dumbasses who are caught red handed. It's far worse than merely pathetic.

My take on the TR saga, going back many years is simply that they will build to the best of their ability only for select, VIP customers who they are sure will carry their water. I believe they and don't give the first fuck about nobodies (Amateurs and recreational shooters like myself) who are lured by the marketing hype to spend insane amounts to buy the churned out seconds. When the truth is found by the unwitting, unimportant customers, they are treated with inattention, indifference, condescension and then hostility. The complaints from credible people, going back years, are so numerous and documented that Frank would be crazy to cave in.

Frank and Snipershide will crush this stupid lawsuit and hopefully it will drive a stake in the heart of the VIP pandering outfits that provide one thing for VIPs and use their satisfaction with them as a club to beat those who get stuck with absurdly overpriced, third rate crap that is easily outperformed by an off the shelf SPS from Dick's!
 
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