I can only find some H414. How well behaved is H414?
- Thread starter Joe Kidd
- Start date
H414 is the Same powder as Win 760. Remember lot to lot variances exist. As for in comparison to H4350....H414 is faster, but not by much. I shoot H414 in my 7-08 and 260 and find that it shoots very well, but is a little dirty and pressures get a little spiky as you increase powder charge. H414 is a ball powder and meters very well. I personally use both in different cartridges and like them both.
I have been using H414 for many years, mostly for 22-250 Ackley and 220Swift. As far as I am concerned, it is the best available for 63/65 gr. bullets. I use a lot of H4350 in 243 and 6MM mostly for bullet weights between 60 and 87 grains. I also use it in a 22-243Middlested, W/62 gr. Bergers.
What do you mean by "well behaved"? Neither of those powders are claimed to be temperature stable but that has not affected my shooting in many years of use. I really don't think it's much to worry about, if that's your concern? Yes, you will get somewhat degraded performance at low temperatures. Yes, you may get pressure concerns at high temperatures, if you are, (already) using a max load. Be aware of it, and don't let your cartridges bake in the sun. Conversely, keep spares in a pocket instead of on your buttstock, in the winter. But, I do that with any propellent, claimed to be temperature stable, or otherwise. BB
What do you mean by "well behaved"? Neither of those powders are claimed to be temperature stable but that has not affected my shooting in many years of use. I really don't think it's much to worry about, if that's your concern? Yes, you will get somewhat degraded performance at low temperatures. Yes, you may get pressure concerns at high temperatures, if you are, (already) using a max load. Be aware of it, and don't let your cartridges bake in the sun. Conversely, keep spares in a pocket instead of on your buttstock, in the winter. But, I do that with any propellent, claimed to be temperature stable, or otherwise. BB
AA4350 allegedly works very well in .260 and, according to Hodgdon, is the next most temperature stable 4350 (or similar powder) out there.
Note the temperature swing to produce 29 FPS change - 125 degrees! I'd say the max temp swing my ammo sees is 80 degrees so I'm putting my trust in AA4350.
Natchez has it in stock.
Joe
Edit; I just checked and they are out of it. They had it in stock for the last few weeks.
Note the temperature swing to produce 29 FPS change - 125 degrees! I'd say the max temp swing my ammo sees is 80 degrees so I'm putting my trust in AA4350.
Natchez has it in stock.
Joe
Edit; I just checked and they are out of it. They had it in stock for the last few weeks.
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Kinda like taking a big dump down the bore! Burns DIRTY DIRTY!!
Where are you finding this data on Hodgdon's website? I've looked & looked.
Some of the differences between powder varieties involve coatings and shapes.
Coatings are intended to provide ignition retardation, which is another way of saying they control burning rates.
They also tend to survive combustion and end up serving as a dry bore lube, in many ways similar, and some ways dissimilar, to moly. We call their accumulation carbon fouling, but that's really understating both the complexity and the importance coatings apply to the science of bore drag.
Granule shapes are purposed to add another factor to burn rate, via the granule weight/surface area ratio. The greater area per unit weight, the faster it ignites.
This shape attribute also affects the way powder settles, and affects load density, weight per unit volume, and individual load burn consistency. The more dispersed the powder is within the case, the faster ignition proceeds; so cases with empty space can tend to have less consistent ignition curves and muzzle velocities; due to differences in the way the charge settles within the casing just prior to ignition.
This is a reason why minimum charges exist, to reduce pressure spikes caused by excessively rarified granule distribution. The primer ignition process shocks a loosely packed charge, dispersing it into suspension within the case. Heat propagation is via infrared radiation, and too few granules per unit volume in a suspension means that the infrared energy can irradiate more granules at a time, accelerating ignition to an unsafe degree.
A ball powder, like H414, is different in several ways from a stick powder, like H-4350.
In addition to shape differences, H-414/W760 also has a quite different coating technology from H-4350. The load density characteristics of H-414 tends to leave more empty space per unit weight. Its older technologies count heavily on graphite's electrically conductive properties, primarily purposed to prevent static charge buildup, and a resulting high probability for unintentional static spark-induced ignition during transport
H-414 uses a heavier coating to offset the natural tendency of smaller, closer packed ball granules to ignite faster, leaving a heavier degree of 'carbon' fouling. That coating is of an older technology, being largely graphite. Newer technologies, like H-4350's 'Extreme' coating, incorporate different/more complex chemistries, altering fouling rates and bore friction values, along with temperature sensitivity characteristics.
The 'Extreme' coatings are intended to minimize velocity variances due to temperature changes, and may work by moderating burn rate, bore friction, or both.
Greg
Coatings are intended to provide ignition retardation, which is another way of saying they control burning rates.
They also tend to survive combustion and end up serving as a dry bore lube, in many ways similar, and some ways dissimilar, to moly. We call their accumulation carbon fouling, but that's really understating both the complexity and the importance coatings apply to the science of bore drag.
Granule shapes are purposed to add another factor to burn rate, via the granule weight/surface area ratio. The greater area per unit weight, the faster it ignites.
This shape attribute also affects the way powder settles, and affects load density, weight per unit volume, and individual load burn consistency. The more dispersed the powder is within the case, the faster ignition proceeds; so cases with empty space can tend to have less consistent ignition curves and muzzle velocities; due to differences in the way the charge settles within the casing just prior to ignition.
This is a reason why minimum charges exist, to reduce pressure spikes caused by excessively rarified granule distribution. The primer ignition process shocks a loosely packed charge, dispersing it into suspension within the case. Heat propagation is via infrared radiation, and too few granules per unit volume in a suspension means that the infrared energy can irradiate more granules at a time, accelerating ignition to an unsafe degree.
A ball powder, like H414, is different in several ways from a stick powder, like H-4350.
In addition to shape differences, H-414/W760 also has a quite different coating technology from H-4350. The load density characteristics of H-414 tends to leave more empty space per unit weight. Its older technologies count heavily on graphite's electrically conductive properties, primarily purposed to prevent static charge buildup, and a resulting high probability for unintentional static spark-induced ignition during transport
H-414 uses a heavier coating to offset the natural tendency of smaller, closer packed ball granules to ignite faster, leaving a heavier degree of 'carbon' fouling. That coating is of an older technology, being largely graphite. Newer technologies, like H-4350's 'Extreme' coating, incorporate different/more complex chemistries, altering fouling rates and bore friction values, along with temperature sensitivity characteristics.
The 'Extreme' coatings are intended to minimize velocity variances due to temperature changes, and may work by moderating burn rate, bore friction, or both.
Greg
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Wideners has AA4350 in stock, just an FYI
Joe
Joe
