Rifle Scopes h59 or TRMR2?
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Re: h59 or TRMR2?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have opinions, but on this topic, they ain't worth diddly.</div></div>
what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have opinions, but on this topic, they ain't worth diddly.</div></div>
what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow?
Re: h59 or TRMR2?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow? </div></div>
African, or European?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow? </div></div>
African, or European?
Re: h59 or TRMR2?
I looked this up on past threads yesterday, because I was about to post the same question. So I am glad you did and not me. But the consensus from what I have researched is if you know how to use the TReMor2 reticle then go for it, I think most of the threads favored the TReMor2 reticle over the H59. However, I think I still prefer the simpleness of the H59 over the more advanced TReMor2. I think their comes a point when there is just to much on the reticle.
I looked this up on past threads yesterday, because I was about to post the same question. So I am glad you did and not me. But the consensus from what I have researched is if you know how to use the TReMor2 reticle then go for it, I think most of the threads favored the TReMor2 reticle over the H59. However, I think I still prefer the simpleness of the H59 over the more advanced TReMor2. I think their comes a point when there is just to much on the reticle.
Re: h59 or TRMR2?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow? </div></div>
African, or European?
</div></div>
i dont know... ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!1.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow? </div></div>
African, or European?
</div></div>
i dont know... ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!1.....
Re: h59 or TRMR2?
I think it probably comes down to how often you'll use it. The tremor has a lot of cool functionality- combining some BDC-like ranging and wind functions with the base horus grid. If you're using those functions frequently enough that you don't have to think about them, it will be wicked fast- faster than an h-59 and certainly faster than dialing- while still maintaining .1 mil accuracy.
However... I'm betting that if I only used the optic occasionally, I would start to forget the nuances. A month ago, I studied up on the tremor and was absolutely convinced I wanted one in a 3-18 Leupold. Turns out that combination is as yet unobtainable outside military contracts, so I'm waiting. As I sit here now writing, I've probably forgotten 1/2 of what I knew a month ago- what the gaps in the verticle line represent, whether the wind dots represent half or full value, etc.
The h-59 (and h-27d) I have in my current optics are simpler, and the h-59 still has the rapid ranging function. A child could learn the basic concepts in about 90 seconds, and a bright child could probably retain 90% of it indefinitely.
I think it probably comes down to how often you'll use it. The tremor has a lot of cool functionality- combining some BDC-like ranging and wind functions with the base horus grid. If you're using those functions frequently enough that you don't have to think about them, it will be wicked fast- faster than an h-59 and certainly faster than dialing- while still maintaining .1 mil accuracy.
However... I'm betting that if I only used the optic occasionally, I would start to forget the nuances. A month ago, I studied up on the tremor and was absolutely convinced I wanted one in a 3-18 Leupold. Turns out that combination is as yet unobtainable outside military contracts, so I'm waiting. As I sit here now writing, I've probably forgotten 1/2 of what I knew a month ago- what the gaps in the verticle line represent, whether the wind dots represent half or full value, etc.
The h-59 (and h-27d) I have in my current optics are simpler, and the h-59 still has the rapid ranging function. A child could learn the basic concepts in about 90 seconds, and a bright child could probably retain 90% of it indefinitely.
Re: h59 or TRMR2?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow? </div></div>
African, or European?
</div></div>
Well played o ye fans of Monty Python... Just don't wag your private parts at my auntie...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow? </div></div>
African, or European?
</div></div>
Well played o ye fans of Monty Python... Just don't wag your private parts at my auntie...
As has been stated, the T2 requires a learning curve and is easy to forget if you aren't on it frequently. Of the two, my vote is for the H-59
I realize this is a recently resurrected thread, but as it continues to come up, here's where the decision hinged for me:
The Tremor is supposed to be much more intuitive (with practice) shooting pure holds at varying ranges and in the wind. A female friend of mine: new shooter and Hide member, used a Tremor-equipped rifle to nail a bobcat at night at somewhere around 400yds as it passed close enough to a light for her to get a sight picture. The cat had been coming into her barn at night killing shit. She'd never shot a scoped rifle before buying the Tremor and she obviously picked it up pretty quick.
HOWEVER, if you have to dial/hold on the Tremor, the dots are no longer where they're "supposed" to be and aren't calibrated for the wind holds anymore.
I selected the H59 simply because if I choose to, I can dial AND hold if need be and the reticle gets simpler rather than harder at that point. Mils are mils regardless of atmospherics, BCs, MVs, whatever. I can move a Horus scope between rifles if I need to without having to remember what dots are worth what on that caliber. I just need my data card and I'm up and running.
The Tremor is supposed to be much more intuitive (with practice) shooting pure holds at varying ranges and in the wind. A female friend of mine: new shooter and Hide member, used a Tremor-equipped rifle to nail a bobcat at night at somewhere around 400yds as it passed close enough to a light for her to get a sight picture. The cat had been coming into her barn at night killing shit. She'd never shot a scoped rifle before buying the Tremor and she obviously picked it up pretty quick.
HOWEVER, if you have to dial/hold on the Tremor, the dots are no longer where they're "supposed" to be and aren't calibrated for the wind holds anymore.
I selected the H59 simply because if I choose to, I can dial AND hold if need be and the reticle gets simpler rather than harder at that point. Mils are mils regardless of atmospherics, BCs, MVs, whatever. I can move a Horus scope between rifles if I need to without having to remember what dots are worth what on that caliber. I just need my data card and I'm up and running.
H-59
Liking that reticle so much it's cost me a lot of $$$$.
For years I was stuck with some cheap Horus scopes that didn't track correctly so I was forced to become proficient using holdovers and holdoffs only. When the H-59 came out in the HDMR's it became my favorite reticle. Later that year and the next I came out on top in our local long range championship using it primarily without dialing.
For the last year I've been dialing mostly and using the dot or the .2 mil hold lines for wind. What I've noticed is I've developed a intuition to know where to aim in the wind using those .2 mil lines. I doubt I would have had the same success with 1/2 mil hashes. Nor have felt the need for BDC type wind holds marks.
Just this last weekend I played around with holdovers and holdoffs again. I had so much fun I'm wondering why I started dialing in the first place???
All I can say is it's annoying for me to use any other reticle.
Liking that reticle so much it's cost me a lot of $$$$.
For years I was stuck with some cheap Horus scopes that didn't track correctly so I was forced to become proficient using holdovers and holdoffs only. When the H-59 came out in the HDMR's it became my favorite reticle. Later that year and the next I came out on top in our local long range championship using it primarily without dialing.
For the last year I've been dialing mostly and using the dot or the .2 mil hold lines for wind. What I've noticed is I've developed a intuition to know where to aim in the wind using those .2 mil lines. I doubt I would have had the same success with 1/2 mil hashes. Nor have felt the need for BDC type wind holds marks.
Just this last weekend I played around with holdovers and holdoffs again. I had so much fun I'm wondering why I started dialing in the first place???
All I can say is it's annoying for me to use any other reticle.
Another vote for H59. The TRM2 was designed with the M118LR round in mind. The dots are equal to a 4 mph wind. Yes it will work on other cartridges, but it's up to you to figure out the dot values. For me, the decision was about consistency between my platforms. I have an H58 on my bolt gun. Since the H59 is just the updated H58, I went with it to keep things consistent on my gas gun.
I've got an HDMR arriving today with the trmr2. Why that reticle? That's the one one sale for $900 at euro optic.com
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H59 all day and twice on Sundays. There are a metric shit ton of issues inside the Tremor when you start using it. Make me a .4 wind correction over 600 yards, When you dial on anything, all your wind dots are crap, who has anything that can give you useful corrections as a spotter, and that's just scratching he surface. A mil graduation(h 59) will always be a mil.
I would pick a TRMR2 over an H-59 simply because you can not do any hold unders with the H-59, or H-58 in my case. If you are going to dial everything then you would not need either one.
I spent a week with the TRMR2 and it was pretty easy to learn. It is also much more user friendly if you will be milling targets or reference points. The mils are broken down into half's and then tenths. Everyone that used it was much more accurate with their range estimations.
I spent a week with the TRMR2 and it was pretty easy to learn. It is also much more user friendly if you will be milling targets or reference points. The mils are broken down into half's and then tenths. Everyone that used it was much more accurate with their range estimations.
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I'm not really for or against either Horus reticle, as I said I just got the tremor cause it was on sale. Anyways I have to agree that there's a lot of stuff on there (tremor), but that includes a standard mil grid along with the larger wind hold marks. Also if you dial elevation you can use the mil marks on the horizontal crosshair for windage holds, so what difference does it make that the special windage grid is no longer correct? I put this on an ar15 so I could shoot with it a bunch and see how this reticle works for me, should be fun to try out anyways. IDK if euro optic still has these on sale, but it seems a pretty good deal the scope was listed as a demo but seemed just like brand new
Couldn't help myself, at that price I picked one up too just because its an amazing deal.
i have the tremor2 and like it. there are dashes in the wind hold off dots for mils. you can still dial your elevation and hold off on the mil scale. go do some research on it. it is good for getting on target fast. i just bought it too because of the price. now that i am using and understand how to use it. i really like it.
Okay. I must be a real dork cause I find your picture much more confusing than this trmr2 reticle! And I'm okay with the reticle
Is he related to the most interesting man in the world? Brother maybe? I see some resemblance with the beard and what not. IDK since I dumped Dish and got Netflix I'm a little lost
Anyone can PM me if they want the manual and slide show presentation of the TREMOR2 reticle. I have it.
I've created a TReMoR2 calibration doc in excel.
Here are the results for my .260 rem:
Blue line and dots: TReMoR2 WindDots
Cyan line: .260 in a 19mph wind (at 5th WindDot)
Red lines: interpolated from Cyan Line
Green dotted line: Beaufort scale mid points
...that's pretty darn close !... and gives me a 3.8mph WindDot value for my .260.
Note: The TReMoR2 does not include spin drift or coriolis effect in order that it remains ballistic neutral. So you have to know your drift and hold off each stadia accordingly... hence the rightwards offset.
It's a really great concept, and makes follow up shots in similar wind conditions at similar angles extremely fast. If you do miss and you pick up your impact point, it can help to indicate a better wind call for additional targets at different distances. So if this is a requirement in your application, it's a great scope.
Note: the TReMoR2 is not calibrated to any specific projectile, but rather you need to work out the WindDots for your specific rifle.
This file should help you: TReMoR2 calibration v10.xlsx
Go to Applied Ballistics online calculator and merely copy and paste the data into the spreadsheet and it will work out the rest... just keep adjusting the wind and repasting to get the best alignment for your round.
I've included the Beaufort wind scale lines as further information to help with wind calls.
Here are the results for my .260 rem:
Blue line and dots: TReMoR2 WindDots
Cyan line: .260 in a 19mph wind (at 5th WindDot)
Red lines: interpolated from Cyan Line
Green dotted line: Beaufort scale mid points
...that's pretty darn close !... and gives me a 3.8mph WindDot value for my .260.
Note: The TReMoR2 does not include spin drift or coriolis effect in order that it remains ballistic neutral. So you have to know your drift and hold off each stadia accordingly... hence the rightwards offset.
It's a really great concept, and makes follow up shots in similar wind conditions at similar angles extremely fast. If you do miss and you pick up your impact point, it can help to indicate a better wind call for additional targets at different distances. So if this is a requirement in your application, it's a great scope.
Note: the TReMoR2 is not calibrated to any specific projectile, but rather you need to work out the WindDots for your specific rifle.
This file should help you: TReMoR2 calibration v10.xlsx
Go to Applied Ballistics online calculator and merely copy and paste the data into the spreadsheet and it will work out the rest... just keep adjusting the wind and repasting to get the best alignment for your round.
I've included the Beaufort wind scale lines as further information to help with wind calls.
Or you can use the wind dot function in ATRAG to get the exact values. Whats that, You don't have ATRAG? Then go to the Horus website tremor wind dot calculator here:
https://www.horusvision.com/tremor_wind_dot_calc.php
https://www.horusvision.com/tremor_wind_dot_calc.php
wow. i just make a wind call,press shot, and then either smile a lil or move over a lil more. i think the new vortex ebr2c is/will be perfection. the rest are clutter,just my .02. HURRY UP AUGUST. my overtime slavery is waiting. id take a good look at the new vortex/reticles but if you wanna get yer mittens on a great scope/reticle id go with the bushy xrs 4.5-30 with georges reticle given your intended application. at least avoid the tremor for sure
As a follow up to this thread. Having picked one of these up, I also picked up the Tremor 2 DVD that explains the reticle. Todd explains how the reticle works beyond what can be found in the manual. It's more in depth but covers some topics quickly and you may have to rewind and listen to it a second time.
Having looked at/read several of the other Tremor2 threads I can say that there is a lot of misinformation out there in regards to the wind dots, their values and the thought that its only good for 308 and that dialing negates the wind dots. The DVD explains how it will work with ANY caliber and how you can dial and use the wind dots and how to determine their value on the fly( you just halve their known value for your gun). I have a better understanding of the reticle now but thought the DVD could have been done a bit better as Todd goes fast over some portions of the reticle that I thought should have been explained a little bit more before moving on to the next item. With that said, hearing/seeing it explained, the reticle makes a lot of sense in why it looks the way it does and what it was designed for. I especially like the ability to mil targets with more precision than you can accomplish with other reticles and you can't help but notice how fast it is to use once you understand how to use it as designed. I will concede that you won't win any F class matches using this reticle but that was never a consideration when it was designed.
So my advise to those who own an optic with a Tremor 2 reticle or want to learn more about it, the DVD is worth checking out.
Having looked at/read several of the other Tremor2 threads I can say that there is a lot of misinformation out there in regards to the wind dots, their values and the thought that its only good for 308 and that dialing negates the wind dots. The DVD explains how it will work with ANY caliber and how you can dial and use the wind dots and how to determine their value on the fly( you just halve their known value for your gun). I have a better understanding of the reticle now but thought the DVD could have been done a bit better as Todd goes fast over some portions of the reticle that I thought should have been explained a little bit more before moving on to the next item. With that said, hearing/seeing it explained, the reticle makes a lot of sense in why it looks the way it does and what it was designed for. I especially like the ability to mil targets with more precision than you can accomplish with other reticles and you can't help but notice how fast it is to use once you understand how to use it as designed. I will concede that you won't win any F class matches using this reticle but that was never a consideration when it was designed.
So my advise to those who own an optic with a Tremor 2 reticle or want to learn more about it, the DVD is worth checking out.
Way back, the OP asked about which reticle to use on a .260 in a PR match.
I have used the H59 with good success, under time limitations, in PR matches, with both an AR10 and a bolt gun.
There is something to be said for simplicity, under stress.
I haven't uses a TreMor2, so my comments are limited to my experience.
I have used the H59 with good success, under time limitations, in PR matches, with both an AR10 and a bolt gun.
There is something to be said for simplicity, under stress.
I haven't uses a TreMor2, so my comments are limited to my experience.
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