Suppressors Handgun Help

[Jon Lester]

Was trying out the "New to Me" 220 Combat and found that this thing is shooting every round into a really tight wad directly to the 9:00 position. This got me thinking about my other Hand guns so I pulled out the 34 glock and sure enough, rear sight to the right. Next I looked over the Anaconda and its rear to the extreme right as well. I went back to the 220 and dry fired a bunch, I can’t detect me pushing to the left at all but apparently everything I have prints over there.

What normal form flaw pushes rounds left on a RH shooter?

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Handgun Help

 

[tullius]

Re: Handgun Help

Try putting more finger on the trigger. May draw your groups back right.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Handgun Help

With a two hand grip, if you're pulling back with your left hand, could be pulling your shots to the left also. I developed this when firing with body armor on that I had to train myself out of.

 

[TheGent]

Re: Handgun Help

With the Anaconda, try putting in 2 snap caps with 4 live rounds when you're shooting a string. That should identify real quick if you're using too little finger surface on the trigger.

Edited to add: In a two hand grip, you may also be putting too much pressure with the heel of your off hand into the grip area.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Handgun Help

Too little could be it. I have always used just the Tip on all triggers. Just barely enough to cover the shoe.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Handgun Help

Personally, I think that chart is a bunch of BS.

If your sights are properly aligned, and you see them lift or see the flash (indicating that you watched them completely thought the break and didn't yank the trigger) then that is where the bullets will go.

You can pull the trigger without disturbing the sights using a variety of trigger finger positions...it just may take more mental focus to do it properly with a different location on your finger.

Left is usually mashing on the trigger, and/or contracting your entire hand and not isolating your trigger finger. If you hand tenses up while you press through the trigger, than can most certainly push rounds off to the side.

The thing is, if you are watching your sights, you should see the sights move, and be able to call this movement and self correct.

 

[tullius]

Re: Handgun Help

Sure dude, that chart's bogus, fer shure man..

 

[squirrelsniper]

Re: Handgun Help

In addition to the tips already mentioned, you may want to find out which eye is dominant. I'm a right-hander but I'm left eye dominant. It isn't really a problem, but since I shoot with both eyes open, I have to move the rear sight over just a bit on <span style="text-decoration: underline">every</span> pistol I shoot.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Handgun Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: squirrelsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In addition to the tips already mentioned, you may want to find out which eye is dominant. I'm a right-hander but I'm left eye dominant. It isn't really a problem, but since I shoot with both eyes open, I have to move the rear sight over just a bit on <span style="text-decoration: underline">every</span> pistol I shoot.</div></div>
You shouldn't have to, just rotate your head a hair.

2 of the best pistol shooters in the world are cross dominant. Neither needs to move their sights to compensate.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Handgun Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tullius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure dude, that chart's bogus, fer shure man..

</div></div>
Look at how many of those actions are done totally unconsciously. How do you stop doing something you don't even realize you're doing?

If I take a new shooter (and I have) and tell them to stop heeling the gun...do you think that just because they were told to stop doing something they're not trying to do, that they will?

I don't think so.

The shooter has to be able to see their sights move (not shutting their eyes, not shifting their focus downrange, etc) they have to be able to get to the "surprise break" before they can observe their sights moving. Once you can observe your sights moving, it's not all that hard to correct the issue, yourself.

Can you explain how you disagree?

 

[tullius]

Re: Handgun Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tullius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure dude, that chart's bogus, fer shure man..

</div></div>
Look at how many of those actions are done totally unconsciously. How do you stop doing something you don't even realize you're doing?</div></div>

Same way you stop a common shooter from using their non-dominant eye to align the sights: you alert them to the issue & they comprehend and change their habits. Erring shooter doesn't have a clue as to why they're not hitting, until you show them why.

Just because they don't realize they're doing it doesn't make the chart any less effective.

 

[fasteddie565]

Re: Handgun Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tullius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure dude, that chart's bogus, fer shure man..

</div></div>
Look at how many of those actions are done totally unconsciously. How do you stop doing something you don't even realize you're doing?

If I take a new shooter (and I have) and tell them to stop heeling the gun...do you think that just because they were told to stop doing something they're not trying to do, that they will?

I don't think so.

The shooter has to be able to see their sights move (not shutting their eyes, not shifting their focus downrange, etc) they have to be able to get to the "surprise break" before they can observe their sights moving. Once you can observe your sights moving, it's not all that hard to correct the issue, yourself.

Can you explain how you disagree? </div></div>

I do this all the time. Its called being an effective trainer. Its called breaking down a complex task, like a trigger squeeze and talk through and walk through your student step by step, making corrections along the way. Once they get it right, you emphasize that through visualization and repetition.

If you do not know this, I would question why you are training new shooters or at a minimum, how you do it.

 

[fasteddie565]

Re: Handgun Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tullius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure dude, that chart's bogus, fer shure man..

</div></div>
Look at how many of those actions are done totally unconsciously. How do you stop doing something you don't even realize you're doing?

If I take a new shooter (and I have) and tell them to stop heeling the gun...do you think that just because they were told to stop doing something they're not trying to do, that they will?

I don't think so.

The shooter has to be able to see their sights move (not shutting their eyes, not shifting their focus downrange, etc) they have to be able to get to the "surprise break" before they can observe their sights moving. Once you can observe your sights moving, it's not all that hard to correct the issue, yourself.

Can you explain how you disagree? </div></div>

I think the word you are so desperately grasping for is SUB consciously, unconscious would be, well, unsafe to say the least. You, as the iinstructor, have to watch the actual trigger squeeze and the resultant round strike. You have to turn the SUBconscious task into a conscious task until you reprogram the muscle memory. Then you let it become subconscious. Tiger Woods has rebuilt his stroke 5 times in his career. He uses the same process.

You have to do more than tell them to stop healing the gun, you have to break the task down into repeatable subtasks, like the steps in your draw stroke, your trigger stroke is no different. Some shooters get it verbally, sometimes you have to hold their hands in the right position so they can "feel" what is right vs what is wrong.

Calling a shot is difficult to go, something I would not expect a new shooter to be able to do.

At least this is what I read on the Internet, so it must be true.