Heavy weight 243 bullets

[TOP PREDATOR]

I read a burn rate chart somewhere and WIN760 is on the list in the rLing manual and its faster than 4350 so I was thinking about trying that...any objections?....I cant just get any powder....not all the stores here have a good selection.

too bad the powder companies didn't have a "sampler pack" small portions of powder enough for 20-25 loads rather than by the pound and being stuck with it if it doesn't work. --there's another million dollar idea there.

760 is faster according to the charts, i don't know if 760 will actually be far enough removed from 4350 to make that much of a difference in your short barrel. check out the .243 loads thread, perhaps there's a load there for a similar length barrel and in the same boat as you. i don't see a problem with using it, but would probably go with something faster just to make sure as your length is so extreme from published data.

i figure that your going to lose up to 50fps per 2", so if a load with a test barrel of 24" is listed for a powder, you can probably expect -200 to -300 fps from the highest load listed, so you may get around 2450-2650 FPS with 760 in your 16" using a max load and probably just burning up powder out side your barrel not really giving you anything back in return. a faster powder than 760 can't hurt, the trick is finding the correct charge.

looking at my hornady manual, it's lists 100 gr bullets through a 15" TC. perhaps look to two columns to the left to compensate for a 105 gr and 1.5" longer barrel for the powders they list. but again that's a guess....and is in the neighborhood of matching up with the estimated FPS on the rifle data -8" on the test barrel! so back to square 1.

things gets really funky when you start chopping barrels vs published data vs using a faster powder, as the characteristics change in a heartbeat.

whatever it is you choose to do, do it with safety in mind.

 

[105gr]

well i just tried 40gr seated to 2.780" and had MV's just over 2600fps. I also had a neck split right at the mouth but the primers looked ok. Sign of pressure or 3 times un-annealed brass? I'm starting to think several people are right about the bullet being too heavy...should I switch powders first or switch bullets first?

 

[Wildboarem]

well i just tried 40gr seated to 2.780" and had MV's just over 2600fps. I also had a neck split right at the mouth but the primers looked ok. Sign of pressure or 3 times un-annealed brass? I'm starting to think several people are right about the bullet being too heavy...should I switch powders first or switch bullets first?

Neck split in sounds like annealing, work hardened.
Get on jbmballistic, run some numbers on some different bullets, keeping in mind your shorter barrel, look at some published data to figure were you might be with velocity, plug into jbm and look at the drop and wind age charts and see what bullet will do the best with your setup.
If you look at the hodgdon and Allianz sites you can kind if guess which powders should work. In these times I use powders I can find that perform the best with bullets I shoot. I'm loading varget, rl-19, rl-22, h1000, IMR 4350, IMR 7828. 87, 95, and 105 gr bullets. Load development is a pita, so I do at least 3 at a time just so I'm never without a load.

As to my earlier post, I neck size for 3 loadings, anneal/trim/chamfer, fl size bumping shoulder, repeat.

 

[105gr]

I'm thinkin 87gr Vmax's....mite not be the optimal choice but they are readily available at the shops in central ohio....I'm also thinkin RL-15...also available and listed for that bullet in the V9 Hornady book with a 10gr drop in charge

 

[AKONA]

"The 105gr Amax/ berger need an 8 twist."-akona
The Hornady manual specifically states that the 105gr AMax will not stabilize in barrels with 1:10 twist or slower....I dont believe you need an 8 twist for a 105gr

As I said it is a factor of the type of rifling and speed too. 3 polygonal rifling will not stabilize the 105 amax. Some barrels might stabilize at 1:9 but marginally so.
Considerable yaw might be exposed at longer distances. That is why I go a tight tighter than minimum recommended by manufacturer. Otherwise you might see jittery trajectories as
you approach transonic ranges and most people do get into the heavier ones to take long shots. Try them out in 1:9 and see what you got.

 

[AKONA]

I'm thinkin 87gr Vmax's....mite not be the optimal choice but they are readily available at the shops in central ohio....I'm also thinkin RL-15...also available and listed for that bullet in the V9 Hornady book with a 10gr drop in charge

The 87 berger is also a nice one. The 95 berger is also one you can try in 1:9 but also will not stabilize in 3 polygonal barrel. It is my observation the best results are achieved with 6 rachet when getting
into the tight twists. This might be the reason krieger do not even offer a 5R in the 1:8 twist.

 

[105gr]

im not sure on the rifling in my barrel....i never thought to count the lands

 

[savages]

ACC, Check out this thread.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/204185-95gr-berger-vld-tikka-243-success.html

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

if you don't have a need for the heavier bullet, like using your rifle for critters, a lighter bullet would be easier to "tame".

still will probably need a quicker powder in either case.

i'm not a speed demon, in fact i've found that slowing down my loads in most cases improves groups and saves "wear and tear". i actually don't like to flirt with max loads. more drop, but that's what the knob is for. i think you can still pick up a few hundred feet per second without flirting with a max load in either a heavy, medium or lightweight bullet with a faster powder.

 

[AKONA]

im not sure on the rifling in my barrel....i never thought to count the lands

Well, it is hard to say categorically if something will work better or not but the 3 polygonal is not stabilizing squad. Even some 87-90gr lead core, marginally so.
Also krieger will not offer a 5R in 1:8 twist. These are facts. Go and check.

Also a bullet might stabilize and show some ok results at 100 or 200 yards and then at 600 or 700 yards one will see a different story.
We have been able to see inconsistent punching at different distances and even occasional keyholing. Accuracy at long range is totally lost.
That is why I suggest experimenting but not to get too optimistic over manufacturer recomendations. Plus also find the true rate of a barrel.
I have seen barrels advertised as 1:8 that were mistakenly labeled when in fact were 1:9. Or 1:10 that were 1:8.5.
I have also seen 5.56 sold as .223 rem and viceversa so nothing surprises me anymore.
Internal ballistics is a complex world and the way a bullet swags through a rifling the type and profile of the grooves and how deep
they are has a lot to do with the capability for that round to stabilize. Also how the bullet starts w more or less jump, can the bullet
self align better or not as it engages the rifling? Some calibers are better than others. The material of the bullet is also key.
So nobody can categorically say this bullet will work great with this twist unless tested and one has to be very specific about the
barrels, bullets and other materials and parameters used in the testing.

 

[AKONA]

if you don't have a need for the heavier bullet, like using your rifle for critters, a lighter bullet would be easier to "tame".

still will probably need a quicker powder in either case.

i'm not a speed demon, in fact i've found that slowing down my loads in most cases improves groups and saves "wear and tear". i actually don't like to flirt with max loads. more drop, but that's what the knob is for. i think you can still pick up a few hundred feet per second without flirting with a max load in either a heavy, medium or lightweight bullet with a faster powder.

An 80gr berger is lighter but it is harder to stabilize than 100gr sierra. The reason is because it is a solid bullet so it has to be a lot longer.
So grain alone is not really saying too much about what the bullet needs. Material and design are also important factors.

 

[AKONA]

ACC, Check out this thread.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/204185-95gr-berger-vld-tikka-243-success.html

He might be using a bullet rated for a 10 twist on a barrel with a 10 twist. Nice rifle btw.
Berger has three 95gr bullets in the 6mm department, 1 match and 1 hunter rated 1:9 and 1 hunter rated 1:10.
So w/o providing the cat.nr. from the manufacturer, we don't really know anything.

Description Bullet Diameter Weight (Grains) G1 BC G7 BC
Twist Store Link/
Part #
6 MM
87 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .243 87 0.412 0.211 10 24524
95 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .243 95 0.480 0.246 9 24527
95 gr Match Grade Classic Hunter .243 95 0.427 0.219 10 24570

95 gr Match VLD Target .243 95 0.480 0.246 9 24427

 

[savages]

Thanks, really love my .243 Tikka.
I'm loading the "95 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .243 95 0.480 0.246 9 24527"

 

[8AteEight]

my savage is 9.25 it shoots amax and bthps very well. I use hybrid 100v its been very good

What length/style barrel are you using?? My youth model has a mere 20" and Im not sure if its enough too get 'em moving enough with H100V.

 

[105gr]

Well I did the "OAL test" last night with the 87gr Vmax's and got 2.720" so I seated them at saami spec of 2.710". Sound right? I also changed powder to 4064 (I think) and the charge in the book is lower so instead of 40gr of the other stuff I now have 32gr of 4064 and theres alot less bullet tail hanging inside the case which means more space in the case. What will this do? Anything I should watch for?

 

[milo 2.0]

I'm thinkin 87gr Vmax's....mite not be the optimal choice but they are readily available at the shops in central ohio....I'm also thinkin RL-15...also available and listed for that bullet in the V9 Hornady book with a 10gr drop in charge

105, you mention a 10gr drop in charge here. Do you mean 10%? 10% would be a 3.7gr drop. You may create a serious undercharge dropping 10grs of powder in a case that only holds 40.

The way you've bounced around with your train of thought, I highly recommend you find a mentor in your area, Ohio, there should be plenty, and get some help and guidance. I'm not trying to make you angry, or belittle you, but just pulling numbers out of ones butt may work for seasoned loaders, I don't feel you're there yet.

Your load in the post below should be a middle of the road load, and should be fine, but I'd test it, I'm sure you'll want more speed out of it at some point.

 

[Wildboarem]

Well I did the "OAL test" last night with the 87gr Vmax's and got 2.720" so I seated them at saami spec of 2.710". Sound right? I also changed powder to 4064 (I think) and the charge in the book is lower so instead of 40gr of the other stuff I now have 32gr of 4064 and theres alot less bullet tail hanging inside the case which means more space in the case. What will this do? Anything I should watch for?

Your off the lands so that is good. Hodgdon has a min charge of 33.5gr of 4064 for 90gr. I wouldn't start below that.
Mentors are great but not always available. I had to just read, read and read. The stickies on this site are great info, the threads you need to be careful of sometimes. Nice thing is that were using modern firearms and not relics that will blowup if we make a small mistake.

 

[105gr]

well 32gr was deffinetly too low....i worked up to near max load of 37gr (according to the Hornady RLM V9). The wind was blowing like 30mph...I was layin in the back of the truck so I couldnt hold still and the target was all over the place but it still shot 1 1/2" 5 shot group. So I proceeded to load 4 rnds of .5gr increments starting at 36 up to 38.5....38.5 may be a little hot but I didnt get good MV till I got to 37gr which is where the 5 shot strings started shooting consistent MV's