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Rifle Scopes Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Flubb

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Minuteman
Jun 16, 2012
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OR
I've spent the past few weeks reading and flip flopping before settling on a Leupold ER/T FFP 6.5-20 TMR because it was the closest next step up from the Viper PST 4-16 FFP I had originally wanted (but which was impossible to find after I got fed up with my 4 month backorder).

This is going on my first long range rifle, a 308 AR build. I intend to work up to and maybe past 1000 yards on the range, though I estimate I won't be going past 600 for awhile. Maybe competitions, I don't know yet. I'd like the option of ranging, and living in Oregon, having an illuminated reticle could be handy on overcast days.

What drew me to the Vortex was the illuminated, subtensioned reticle (EBR-1), FFP, mil/mil adjustments, 50mm objective, zero stop, zoom range and price. I'm trying to duplicate as many of those features as I can but it's virtually impossible.

I'd settled on the Leupold because it had all those features except the zero stop and illumination, but promised a better view. Then I find out about the Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21 FFP G2. Again, no zero stop or illumination. Cheaper, but at what cost? Then I came across the IOR Valdada 4-16 FFP X1. I like the larger adjustment range too, and the secondary impact indicator. The illuminated center dot seems almost superficial though.

I'm having trouble coming to a conclusion. I'd rather not throw more choices into the mix unless necessary, because I've already considered the Razor HD, NF NXS, SWFA SS and others both higher and lower than the Leupold. I'd rather not spend another $600 on top of the $600 I've already added over the Viper PST I originally planned for, but I wouldn't mind spending less. Except the nagging feeling that I'd have under-bought.

Please help me decide, this damned hobby's going to kill me before I even start it.
frown.gif
Basically, talk me out of the Leupold, if there's any reason to do so!

tl;dr
Leupold ER/T FFP 6.5-20 TMR?
Bushnell HDMR FFP 3.5-21 G2?
IOR Valdada FFP 4-16 X1?
SWFA SS FFP 5-20?
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

They are all great, really.

I would order the one that has your attention the most. When you get it, use it for a litle while. If it's not up to your par, sell it for a minimum loss, and order the other on your list.

You may lose a couple dollars here and there, but you'll gain first hand experience with them, and will no longer have to guess or ask opinions of those on the internet, which may or may not be very helpful or truthful information.

Good luck.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

My list would probably be HDMR>IOR>SWFA>Leupie 4-14.

If you really want a 4-16 PST though why not wait until one comes up for sale in the classifieds here? I've seen two in the past couple weeks.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My list would probably be HDMR>IOR>SWFA>Leupie 4-14.

If you really want a 4-16 PST though why not wait until one comes up for sale in the classifieds here? I've seen two in the past couple weeks.

</div></div>

I will second what BCP stated, in that exact order.
However, the HDMR is non-illuminated and I would opt for the IOR 3-18x50 over the 4-16.
I would skip the PST all together.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My list would probably be HDMR>IOR>SWFA>Leupie 4-14.

If you really want a 4-16 PST though why not wait until one comes up for sale in the classifieds here? I've seen two in the past couple weeks. </div></div>

+1
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My list would probably be HDMR>IOR>SWFA>Leupie 4-14.

If you really want a 4-16 PST though why not wait until one comes up for sale in the classifieds here? I've seen two in the past couple weeks. </div></div>

+1</div></div>
+2/3 what ever it is!
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Sounds like you have your budget hammered out at about $1,200. Now the fun part, decide which features are a must have (i.e. high speed turrets, illum, zero stop) and the features that would be nice to have. As mentioned by others above, the classifieds are a great place to start. There have been several 4-16 FFP PST's pop up and sell in the last week (just snagged one myself). The SWFA SS HD 5-20's are also popping up very close to your price range. Knowing your pricepoint, and the must have features combined with an eye on the classifieds will definitely get you something that will suit you well.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RHutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My list would probably be HDMR>IOR>SWFA>Leupie 4-14.

If you really want a 4-16 PST though why not wait until one comes up for sale in the classifieds here? I've seen two in the past couple weeks.

</div></div>

I will second what BCP stated, in that exact order.
However, the HDMR is non-illuminated and I would opt for the IOR 3-18x50 over the 4-16.
I would skip the PST all together. </div></div>

Which is the newer model, the 3-18 or 3.5-18 IOR? I was looking at the 3.5-18, it has pretty much every feature I want and the price isn't much more than I was planning for. Is there any reason not to like it?

I intended to spend $1,300-$1,500.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flubb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RHutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My list would probably be HDMR>IOR>SWFA>Leupie 4-14.

If you really want a 4-16 PST though why not wait until one comes up for sale in the classifieds here? I've seen two in the past couple weeks.

</div></div>

I will second what BCP stated, in that exact order.
However, the HDMR is non-illuminated and I would opt for the IOR 3-18x50 over the 4-16.
I would skip the PST all together. </div></div>

Which is the newer model, the 3-18 or 3.5-18 IOR? I was looking at the 3.5-18, it has pretty much every feature I want and the price isn't much more than I was planning for. Is there any reason not to like it?

I intended to spend $1,300-$1,500. </div></div>



The 3.5-18 is the newer model. It is a bit over your 1500 budget but there really isn't anything to not like about it. If you decide on it give Scott at Liberty Optics a call.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

I don't have any personal experience with the ior but I second the watch the optics section in the classified ads on the hide. If you look around a week or so you will probably be able to snag a more desirable brand scope for the same money you are planning on spending. Seriously you can find something you will be proud of in the forsale section.
It doesn't get any better from here but good luck.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Liberty Optics is having a sale on the IOR scopes right now. Scott is listing the 3-18x42 FFP MRAD Illuminated for $1639, but if you call him he'll most certainly come in under that. Also, you get free rings in the bargain. That would be my choice given your parameters.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

IOR makes some really nice scopes and their customer-service is out of Littleton, Colorado (and quite good).

No major complaints about SWFA scopes (I have at least 6), but the specs on their website are frequently incorrect (and seldom fixed) -- a pet peeve of mine. I'm assuming the website is outsourced and / or revisions are costly.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Slightly off topic, but you guys seem to know these scopes: What is the subtension of the main G2DMR reticle lines? Thanks!
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

I shoot the 3.5-18x42 with the MP8-X1 reticle on an AR-10 and an IOR Pitbull on an AR15. Both scopes are perfect for these rifles.

Scott from Liberty took care of me on the 3.5-18 and the PitBull came directly from Val from IOR/Valdada at the Tulsa Gun Show. Both guys were great to work with.


If I did it again I'd go with the 3.5-18x50 for my AR10. I believe the 50mm scopes are a little better to get behind and Val recommended them at the Tulsa Show.

I am trying to top a couple 700s now and I'm considering the IOR 30mm scopes - the 4-16 FFP X1 for a 700P and the 2.5-10 on an LTR. I keep looking at Leupold, Vortex, Nightforce and keep going back to the IOR. The MP8 is hard to stray from and works well in the FFP. You have enought reticle to see at 3-4 power and while it is thick at 18 power it works. The illumination is perfect for low light. It is hard to find a better combination of features for the money as you already know.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

I have the IOR 4-16x50 X1 on my rig right now. I got it from Scott at Liberty Optics and it's a kick ass scope. It does everything I need out to 1100yds. I get a wondering eye every now and again towards higher priced scopes... Until I go shoot and realize I don't need anything else for my needs. I'd buy another one if I had a gun to put it on.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Scott@LibertyOptics is the go to guy for optics. He will take good care you like he does all of his customers. He took very good care of me.

IOR is a very good value IMHO. I own a 6-24x56mm FFP and I like it very much. Great mechanics and amazing glass. Their CS is amazing too. Does everything I need it to on a .308 out to 1000yd.

Check out my experience with Scott and IOR:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2391973#Post2391973
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

IOR are very nice scope and offer a lot.

I see the Bushnell 3.5-21x50mm DMR being a great choice for a precision AR15 or AR10. The Compact size and the power range are ideal.
http://www.cstactical.com/OPTICS/Rifle-S....1-Mil-box.html

Another great choice would be the Nightforce F1 3.5-15x50mm, the SFP scopes are also a great way to go. Nightforce scopes are extremely reliable and solid, you will not go work with them.
http://www.cstactical.com/NXS-FFP.html


Mike @ CST
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Thanks very much for the suggestions everyone. After talking with Scott at Liberty, I passed the Leupold and bought an IOR 3.5-18x50 yesterday. For not very much more than the Leupold, I got every feature the Viper PST had me targeting and then some.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Flubb,
Congratulations, perfect way to start a weekend and complete your AR10 build.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Flubb, I was in the same situation as you. I am in Oregon as well. I ended up sticking with Leupold because of some loyalty demands I have through my job (long story). Do you shoot 600 at TCGC?
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

I would recommend Ior, great glass and zero stop.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flubb, I was in the same situation as you. I am in Oregon as well. I ended up sticking with Leupold because of some loyalty demands I have through my job (long story). Do you shoot 600 at TCGC? </div></div>

I haven't shot anything past 200 before, I'm just starting out.

Deciding between TCGC and DRRC is my next hurdle. I'm leaning towards DRRC for the 1000 yard range and looser rules.

The scope came today, it's surpassed all my expectations, thanks again everyone for the help!
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

I didnt realize DRRC has a 1000 yard range. So far tho. I'm glad you are happy with your IOR. Wish I had the choice.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flubb, I was in the same situation as you. I am in Oregon as well. I ended up sticking with Leupold because of some loyalty demands I have through my job (long story). Do you shoot 600 at TCGC? </div></div>

Leupold & Stevens, US Optics, Vortex, Nightforce, and Bushnell all have US repair centers and other than Bushnell, pretty sure you can pay for reticle replacement and turret changes with the other companies. At one time, Leupold was going to offer changeover to Illum Reticles as well. There are warranties and then there are firms with never a question warranty and complete optic service and custom shops...

Have owned upscale Zeiss and IOR scopes. No longer will consider a Euro scope unless the manufacturer has a full-service repair facility in the USA.

Really think WEIGHT & COMPACTNESS are a Major Consideration for AR-10 scope choice. Have a 22" barreled GAP-10 with a Vortex 4-16 PST and only wish it were as compact as my Leupold 4.5-14 mk 4 in oal. Light & compact scope really helps keep any AR-10 under 14lbs which is about top weight for a non-crew served weapon...

Good luck with your IOR. The ones I owned were boat-anchor heavy and very long. Long ocular and magnification ring combined with their long turret housing means even on an AR-10 Flat-top that you have to position the turrets way out over the barrel and only the longest risers will work.

As far as risers go, unless you have a special upper receiver with integral Pic Rail all way out to your gas block, only kind you will find that work are the single stub-in-slot type like LaRue QD LT 101 and you will still be limited by forward QD lever having to make contact on the upper receiver rail side.

Unless your IOR is very short in the rear lens group oal, might not be able to mount the scope right over the charging handle where the ocular belongs....
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

You don't need a Horus reticle on an AR. Get the DMR.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

I haven't tried it on my AR-10, but I have an IOR 3-18x42mm that sure seems like it should be a good fit.

There was some concern about the short eye-relief of this particular scope on a bolt-gun, but I don't think it would be an issue on the AR-10.
--
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Any suggestions on brand and height of 35mm rings for the AR-10?

My IOR 3-18x42 dates back to 2008 (Gen 3, I think) and came with Seekins "ultra low" rings. I'm guessing they're .95".

--
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

I would just like to attest to the great glass in the IOR. I just received the 3.5-18x50 model from Scott at Liberty Optics this past week and on Sunday my buddy and I wanted to see how long after sundown (8:30pm) we could identify and make hits on a target 100 yards away and at what time we could not. Without illumination I was able to make this group at 9:18pm making the last shot high and not able to identify the center of target very well. I am amazed at how much this scope gathers light as opposed to others I have used in the past.
photo.jpg


Edit: I would just like to add that the center dot in the MP8 reticle is nice, because it doesn't occlude the target and allows you to see more detail around what you're shooting at which made picking up the target easier. Just my .02 cents.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

It's a no brainier. If you are in the Portland area. It's Leupold .
Just for the fact that you drive down hwy. 26 & drop it off in the Leu. lobby for a Wil-Call repair pick-up . If the need ever come for a repair or up-grade .

Every Scope @ one-time will go-down & The Location you live will save a lot head-ache & Shipping wait to & from . Nothing like getting something done in-person .
.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

HDMR with G2 reticle. It's a great scope, and stands up to a lot of abuse.
 
Re: Help me decide: IOR, Leupold ER/T or Bushnell HDMR

Y'all not see he already got the IOR ?

I'm in Portland too but I don't choose scopes based on where (if) I have to repair them.
I went with the IOR 3.5-18 too, there's nothing Leupy puts out that's compatible feature/build/glass quality wise. If they did, I would have bought it.

Stoopid question, what's DRRC ?
I'm about to go and join Tri County, but I'm interested in other options...