Help me upgrade my rifles (please)

[Greenday4537]

So currently, I'm running a TC Long Range Rifle in 6.5 creedmoor and Ruger American Ranch in 5.56.

The TC LRR is stock. 1:8" twist barrel so I can shoot most weight bullets. Got it on sale for $900. I got a Hawke Vantage 6-24x50 AO Mil Dot IR on it that I picked up $150 brand new. (sales times are such a great time to get equipment. Yea it's cheap, but a friend has one and I really liked the quality for the price tag. At 100 yards, I can easily shoot 0.75 MOA and down to 0.5 MOA for 4 shot groups.

The Ruger American Ranch is a little beast. This was the second rifle I've ever gotten. Could have gone with AR-15 for fun, but I wanted to get into precision shooting. And for shorter ranges, I felt this was a quality choice. $400 for the rifle. 5.56 so I can shooting 5.56 or .223. The scope I have on it is a Nikon Prostaff 5 3.5-14x40. I added a muzzle brake to it because why not at the time. It's a JP recoil eliminator. The eliminator part of the name is no exaggeration. Loud, but the recoil is non-existent (Yes, it's .223, I know there isn't tons of recoil as is.).

So for someone trying to move from rookie status to a little more advanced, what upgrades would be suggested? I'm in NJ so there is that when it comes to accounting for what's legal in this God forsaken state.

 

[spife7980]

New barrel, new stock, new trigger

 

[MElank]

I have no idea what your budget it. But, here goes. Sell everything.

Go to Eurooptic.com and buy the Tikka T3X Tac A1 Package with the S&B 5-25 for $3499.99. Stay with me...

Sell the S&B here for at least $2300 profit. This puts your Tikka at $1199.99. A great gun at a crazy price. Then buy whatever Athlon scope you can find.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

Your best upgrade would upgrading the shooter; as in training. Doing that before investing in gear will likely save you a bunch money on buying the wrong gear, and you'll wind up better shooter.

 

[fcyle10]

I have no idea what your budget it. But, here goes. Sell everything.

Go to Eurooptic.com and buy the Tikka T3X Tac A1 Package with the S&B 5-25 for $3499.99. Stay with me...

Sell the S&B here for at least $2300 profit. This puts your Tikka at $1199.99. A great gun at a crazy price. Then buy whatever Athlon scope you can find.

After taxes and shipping then selling the new scope with shipping he’d be more around the $1500 dollar range for the tax A1.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Use what you have if it is indeed that accurate; with the caveat at least upgrade the scope to a fixed 10X SS scope in mil/mil.

Take the money you would use to upgrade to take a class and get off the bench with the rifle and practice.

 

[MElank]

Not trying to derail the thread, however, shipping is $9.99 from Eurooptic and I know some rules have changed regarding ecommerce and taxes, I have never been charged tax from them. That may have changed now depending on what state he is in.

Selling the PM2 he is likely to sell it for $2400 which would net him at least $2300 given some variance in shipping and actual sale price.

The point is he can get a very good rifle for considerably less than he could even buy it used. If that is too much money, I would still look heavily into a Tikka CTR and buy a KRG Bravo for it. This is the best way to get into this as cheap as possible and still have a rifle that retains some value when you upgrade or not.

 

[fcyle10]

Not trying to derail the thread, however, shipping is $9.99 from Eurooptic and I know some rules have changed regarding ecommerce and taxes, I have never been charged tax from them. That may have changed now depending on what state he is in.

Selling the PM2 he is likely to sell it for $2400 which would net him at least $2300 given some variance in shipping and actual sale price.

The point is he can get a very good rifle for considerably less than he could even buy it used. If that is too much money, I would still look heavily into a Tikka CTR and buy a KRG Bravo for it. This is the best way to get into this as cheap as possible and still have a rifle that retains some value when you upgrade or not.

I agree I was just bringing up taxes because last time I ordered through them I paid taxes. When I asked they said the rules changed.

 

[MElank]

Ah damn. We all had a good thing going, bound to change I suppose with the world headed more online. Especially now.

 

[Greenday4537]

Your best upgrade would upgrading the shooter; as in training. Doing that before investing in gear will likely save you a bunch money on buying the wrong gear, and you'll wind up better shooter.

I'm doing super well at 100 yards. I'm fortunate enough to have an indoor 100 yard range to practice in. Perfect for learning the basics and not having to worry about sunlight, wind, etc. Great for just learning breathing control, sighting, trigger pull, etc. The controlled environment was great for that. There's a 200 yard outdoor range that's pretty cheap. I go there for meetups and chrono but it's just far enough to be a pain in the ass for a regular thing.

20 minutes or so away is a 300 yard range. $250 for the year, but otherwise seems like a good step up to start challenging myself. Only other long distance range around is a 600 yard range, but they haven't been accepting new members for the past couple years I've been checking. Everything else is 25 yard indoor.

What I REALLY want to do is get a few other guys to camp out and go to this place for a few days https://www.shootersgauntlet.com/ . See if we can schedule the intro to long range class (100-300 yards) and long range level 1 (300-700 yards) back to back privately during the week.

 

[FjallJager]

Here are the most important long range components of shooting
1. Optic that dials true, has good resolution and enough adjustment to fit the range.
2. Trigger that works for your style of shooting, I prefer two stage. Some people for some God forsaken reason prefer single stage triggers.
3. Rifle that is accurate enough to meet desires.
4. Ammunition that fits rifle well enough to meet desires.

I desire 1/8th MOA, I am happy with a 1/4 MOA, a 1 MOA rifle will shoot well enough to put 10 shots in 10 inches at 600 yards on an average day. On a good day a 1 MOA rifle will meet 10 inches at 1000, but those days are rare for a 1 MOA rifle as wind and skill are major contributors to accuracy.

You will spend a lot of money to upgrade what you have. You are better off buying the pieces you need to have a better rifle system that will be upgradable. 700 Clone, Savage Model 12, Tikka T3, Bergara B14. A Zermatt Origin, two-stage trigger, good Savage pre-fit barrel and a decent stock bought piece by piece over a few months will not brake the bank.

 

[DROWN]

I have no idea what your budget it. But, here goes. Sell everything.

Go to Eurooptic.com and buy the Tikka T3X Tac A1 Package with the S&B 5-25 for $3499.99. Stay with me...

Sell the S&B here for at least $2300 profit. This puts your Tikka at $1199.99. A great gun at a crazy price. Then buy whatever Athlon scope you can find.

This is a phenomenal deal.

 

[Greenday4537]

Here are the most important long range components of shooting
1. Optic that dials true, has good resolution and enough adjustment to fit the range.
2. Trigger that works for your style of shooting, I prefer two stage. Some people for some God forsaken reason prefer single stage triggers.
3. Rifle that is accurate enough to meet desires.
4. Ammunition that fits rifle well enough to meet desires.

I desire 1/8th MOA, I am happy with a 1/4 MOA, a 1 MOA rifle will shoot well enough to put 10 shots in 10 inches at 600 yards on an average day. On a good day a 1 MOA rifle will meet 10 inches at 1000, but those days are rare for a 1 MOA rifle as wind and skill are major contributors to accuracy.

You will spend a lot of money to upgrade what you have. You are better off buying the pieces you need to have a better rifle system that will be upgradable. 700 Clone, Savage Model 12, Tikka T3, Bergara B14. A Zermatt Origin, two-stage trigger, good Savage pre-fit barrel and a decent stock bought piece by piece over a few months will not brake the bank.

Sounds like something to save for.

 

[jakelly]

You calling Jersey “God forsaken state” over gun policy; my brain is gonna short out trying to calculate the irony.

My answer to your OP:
Sell the rifles. My thought would be gunbroker or local. PX probably isn’t gonna help you. Then select an action that won’t crush you on resale. FN, Tikka, Remington, et al, my pick would be a Tikka, but I would gladly start with any of them if I found a bargain. Look for a used barreled action and add the stock/chassis of your choice. Cash is king. Get your cash back.

Look at this set-up that sold recently:

Tikka Creed and LRHSi

Stainless Tikka CTR 6.5 Creed with 24" barrel and Bushnell 4.5-18x44 FFP Mil LRHSi in Nightforce Ultra Light Rings. $1,500.00 to your FFL after check clears or USPS money order arrives. First I will take it followed by a PM gets it. I am reliable and expect the same from buyer...

www.24hourcampfire.com

It’s a good time to buy. You are better off with one very good set-up than two mediocre.

My other answer:
Exactly what both @EchoDeltaSierra and @ajv35XX said. If your rifles shoot well, (they must, you’re leading your 100yd benchrest league) then your scopes and you are likely the weakest links. If you do schedule a class, do it over November 3, I’ll chip in $20.

 

[TheBigCountry]

I'm doing super well at 100 yards. I'm fortunate enough to have an indoor 100 yard range to practice in. Perfect for learning the basics and not having to worry about sunlight, wind, etc. Great for just learning breathing control, sighting, trigger pull, etc. The controlled environment was great for that. There's a 200 yard outdoor range that's pretty cheap. I go there for meetups and chrono but it's just far enough to be a pain in the ass for a regular thing.

20 minutes or so away is a 300 yard range. $250 for the year, but otherwise seems like a good step up to start challenging myself. Only other long distance range around is a 600 yard range, but they haven't been accepting new members for the past couple years I've been checking. Everything else is 25 yard indoor.

What I REALLY want to do is get a few other guys to camp out and go to this place for a few days https://www.shootersgauntlet.com/ . See if we can schedule the intro to long range class (100-300 yards) and long range level 1 (300-700 yards) back to back privately during the week.

Your cheating yourself with that indoor range crap, even if it’s “convenient”. You can learn a lot about sight alignment, sight picture, etc with dry fire practice. You need to get outside and learn wind, as well as getting off the bench and shooting positional. That will show you exactly where your deficiencies lay.

 

[Greenday4537]

Your cheating yourself with that indoor range crap, even if it’s “convenient”. You can learn a lot about sight alignment, sight picture, etc with dry fire practice. You need to get outside and learn wind, as well as getting off the bench and shooting positional. That will show you exactly where your deficiencies lay.

I wouldn't say I'm cheating myself, just that it's good for the super basics. Also for setting a true zero. They do let you shoot prone too which I haven't done much but it's a nice change from bench shooting.

Shooting standing unsupported for the first time with that heavy barrel was quite the surprise. Drastically different from my 15-22 which is like a feather compared to the LRR.

 

[TheBigCountry]

I wouldn't say I'm cheating myself, just that it's good for the super basics. Also for setting a true zero. They do let you shoot prone too which I haven't done much but it's a nice change from bench shooting.

Shooting standing unsupported for the first time with that heavy barrel was quite the surprise. Drastically different from my 15-22 which is like a feather compared to the LRR.

Which you can learn with dry fire (sight alignment/sight picture, natural respiratory pause, slow stead squeeze, etc).

My best advice is get outdoors and learn what the wind will do to a bullet in flight. You can zero and everything out there as well, and I can bet it’s a lot easier on the ears as well

 

[HMRamateur]

I'm doing super well at 100 yards. I'm fortunate enough to have an indoor 100 yard range to practice in. Perfect for learning the basics and not having to worry about sunlight, wind, etc. Great for just learning breathing control, sighting, trigger pull, etc. The controlled environment was great for that. There's a 200 yard outdoor range that's pretty cheap. I go there for meetups and chrono but it's just far enough to be a pain in the ass for a regular thing.

20 minutes or so away is a 300 yard range. $250 for the year, but otherwise seems like a good step up to start challenging myself. Only other long distance range around is a 600 yard range, but they haven't been accepting new members for the past couple years I've been checking. Everything else is 25 yard indoor.

I'm assuming the 200 yd range and the 300 yd range are seperate ranges? 20 minutes to drive to a 300 yd range sounds like a good place to be for me. $250 for the year doesn't sound awful either. I don't know, I'm from Canada where everything is more expensive, and even with more land, it seems we have less areas for licensed ranges. I drive almost an hour to a 50m-100m range and an hour and a half to a 100m-500m range. Membership is twice the price of yours. A 20 minute drive to shoot 300 yds would be an easy decision for me. Stop worrying about shooting small groups at 100 and add some difficulty into it with a little bit of wind.

 

[Fixr]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1 what HMRamateur said, thanks for saving me from typing that.

 

[FjallJager]

The number of shops that take trades around here is pretty small.

You might be able to find a Tikka T3 Varmint, CTR, or Tactical there and trade.

Our Cabelas buys guns. You never know if they are going to give a shit price or a good price. Just take them in there and see, or advertise locally and see how you do.

I wouldn't waist my time on a 700, by the time you rebuild it you will have bought a custom action. Tikka and Savages have better barrels anyway. The Bergara is a 700 clone, but it is built correctly with a bolt release where it should be and a Savage barrel tennon (meaning you can replace the barrel with one off of a Savage or a pre-fit Savage replacement barrel).

Don't buy an uncommon caliber or a rifle that can't be upgraded.

Remington has the most aftermarket parts (stocks, triggers, bottom metals), followed by Tikka, Savage and then Howa.

Howa is a great rifle, as it has a good barrel, and good trigger out of the box.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Figure out the difference between the necessary and the coveted.

You can get the job done just fine without buying off the top shelf, unless you're one of the very few (myself not included) whose actual skills push beyond the capabilities of the very best, most expensive gear. Actually, my skills are fairly good, yet the basic stuff still delivers what I need.

I buy what I can afford, then improve on its capabilities; just as you are trying to do.

My brands are Savage, Ruger, Bushnell, and my add-ons are largely from the websites of Midway and Amazon.

I try to figure out just what it is I'm trying to improve, and what the goal is; and not something that employs meaningless words like 'best'. I then go to the Amazon/Midway site, type in my generic info covering that, and see what comes up.

I firmly believe that in the nearly twenty years I've been posting on this site; the basic products marketed by the bigger producers have improved from tepid to genuinely better gear than most of us can manage to wring the full potential from.

I've only ever replaced one Savage barrel, and it was both new, and totally functional. I wanted to do something with it that I believed no Savage barrel could provide. As it turned out, once I had the new barrel up and running, I was still able to shoot the Savage barrel out to 1KM with the same degree of accuracy. That day I learned that the basics are often better than I can find actual fault with, and that as long as I can provide good load development, the accuracy I can wring out of the basics far exceeds my true genuine needs. What I wanted did indeed exist, cost more than I could justify, and in truth, I really didn't need it after all.

Case in point. I later bought a Savage 11VT 223. I upgraded the stock with a Choate Tactical, mostly because Choate offered stackable 3/4" stock LOP extenders, and that I did need (three of them, actually). I left the barrel and Accu-Trigger completely alone. A basic 20moa EGW base, Vortex 6 screw tactical rings, and a clone folding bipod completed the basic rifle. The optic was first, a Mueller 8-32x44 Target Dot scope; and later, a Bushnell AR Drop Zone 223 BDC scope. That scope gave me the ability to lase my distance out to 600yd, then choose from/divide between any of the 100yd-spaced aiming points the reticle provided. On the KD range, I could deliver three accurate shots in under a minute, each at a different distance; 100, 200, and 300yd. The whole shebang ran me under $1000. It's not that hard, and it doesn't need to cost thousands.

I then turned around and did the same danged thing with another 11VT (a 308) and the 308 version of the same scope. For my own practical purposes, I can get by at 600yd and under; and if the need arises, I just add elevation with the knobs. That's a 223, and a 308 capability, both at under $2k.

My needs are not everybody's, but maybe that's my point.

Greg

 

[DROWN]

Tikkas have strong following. They are amazing value. They shoot good out of the box. Available in lots of calibers and have a growing array of aftermarket upgrades from stocks and chassis to triggers and barrels.