"better" is subjective.
imho, it is almost impossible to "accidentally" fire a P-series Sig with that heavy DA trigger pull, despite the claims of kate steinle's killer.
Sidearms & Scatterguns Help pick primary sidearm
- Thread starter Mossyoak44
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imho, it is almost impossible to "accidentally" fire a P-series Sig with that heavy DA trigger pull, despite the claims of kate steinle's killer.
DO NOT shoot a Shadow 2. I warned you.
I can also add that I spent a number of years trying out every popular semi-auto firearm out there and while I appreciate to many aspects of so many firearms, I just kept coming back to Glock.
Here's why.
I wrote this up for a buddy who was caught up in typical gun forum debates over Glock and how Glock does not "innovate" and ... well, you know how it goes. FWIW...
Re. Glock and innovation...
Here's the deal...Glock has provided the world with the most combat-tested, combat-proven firearm ever invented, selling hundreds of millions of them. They are easy to use. Easy to maintain. Easy to shoot. A trained monkey can field strip them. An average IQ human can detail strip them. There are tens of thousands of after-market parts and gizmos for them. You can customize them to your heart's content.
But on the other hand, they perform reliably and consistently right out of the box, even with their stock crappy sights. They get the job done. They are intended to be and always have been combat-accurate handguns useful for CQB situations of every description. They are legendarily resistant to abusive environmental conditions and abusive human operators.
Glock does not need to "innovate" ... they just need to keep their quality control strong and keep churning out these marvelous polymer-framed wonder guns.
The Glock inspires endless online debates among mostly keyboard warriors who have never gone in harms way, never experienced the terror and thrill of the two-way range and have never heard, let alone fired, a single bullet fired in anger in their lives, and hopefully never will. Let these types debate, whine, cry and otherwise *****/moan/debate about Glock not "innovating" all they want. The rest of us will just smile and nod and say, "That's nice, honey."
Glocks work. Period. End of story.
Here's why.
I wrote this up for a buddy who was caught up in typical gun forum debates over Glock and how Glock does not "innovate" and ... well, you know how it goes. FWIW...
Re. Glock and innovation...
Here's the deal...Glock has provided the world with the most combat-tested, combat-proven firearm ever invented, selling hundreds of millions of them. They are easy to use. Easy to maintain. Easy to shoot. A trained monkey can field strip them. An average IQ human can detail strip them. There are tens of thousands of after-market parts and gizmos for them. You can customize them to your heart's content.
But on the other hand, they perform reliably and consistently right out of the box, even with their stock crappy sights. They get the job done. They are intended to be and always have been combat-accurate handguns useful for CQB situations of every description. They are legendarily resistant to abusive environmental conditions and abusive human operators.
Glock does not need to "innovate" ... they just need to keep their quality control strong and keep churning out these marvelous polymer-framed wonder guns.
The Glock inspires endless online debates among mostly keyboard warriors who have never gone in harms way, never experienced the terror and thrill of the two-way range and have never heard, let alone fired, a single bullet fired in anger in their lives, and hopefully never will. Let these types debate, whine, cry and otherwise *****/moan/debate about Glock not "innovating" all they want. The rest of us will just smile and nod and say, "That's nice, honey."
Glocks work. Period. End of story.
Like I said, I have some of the most expensive handguns made...even from cz, sign, and H&k....I would never trust one without testing.
I would be comfortable taking a brand new Glock out of the box, loading it, and throwing in a duty holster without firing it first....I know it will work
That kind of consistent reliability doesn't exist in most handguns.
Bench
600 Nitro Express...when 500 S&W Magnum just doesn't have enough recoil!
Have you actually taken any modern brand new H&K pistols out of the box, with quality ammo and had them not go bang?
(Not including if you limp wrist light target 9mm loads).
I have been shooting 1911s competitively for almost 35 years, so my go-to was naturally a commander-style for EDC. I couldn't get used to them and for a while carried a BHP. Glocks were so-so for me and SIGs were a no-go as was the HK USP.
I tried a M&P 2.0 9mm compact and that is now my EDC. Outstanding out-of-the box trigger, stippling, grip angle is more 1911-ish and accuracy. Conceals well enough and can still use either the 15rd or 17rd mags. Swap-fit backstrap helps also.
If you think it’s a reasonable choice and that it’s not better, why would you pick something that’s worse? If you’re not forst you’re last.
Handicapping myself on the off chance I might lose my gun and an illegal alien will pick it up doesn’t make sense.
if you're handicapped because you are unable to learn trigger control of a DA handgun, i can understand preferring a striker fired pistol.
there is nothing wrong or rare about this, and i would not try to choose for anyone else.
I suspect the OP may be trying to solve a software problem with hardware. 
Looks like everyone has their favorite pistol. I have a bunch of Glocks, but I shoot the CZ P-07 better. Now I use the P-07 for EDC. Find the one that works for you under pressure.
I really like to tweak on the Glock fanboys, especially when they roll out the trope "most issued police sidearm" etc...
They are the most issued sidearm because they are cheap (about 350 for agency price), they are reliable, they are accurate, they are simple, because most cops aren't gun guys or gals.
In regards to the most battle tested, please. That title still belongs to the 1911.
The CZ P10C does have a better trigger than the Glock, MOST but not all, find the feel in the hand of the CZ is better, everything else is pretty much a wash.
Not all Glock holsters will work for the CZ P10.
The P07 and P09 are excellent pistols, as well as any of the 75 series.
In all honesty, find what fits your hand the best, that you like and rock on. It is very hard to go wrong these days.
They are the most issued sidearm because they are cheap (about 350 for agency price), they are reliable, they are accurate, they are simple, because most cops aren't gun guys or gals.
In regards to the most battle tested, please. That title still belongs to the 1911.
The CZ P10C does have a better trigger than the Glock, MOST but not all, find the feel in the hand of the CZ is better, everything else is pretty much a wash.
Not all Glock holsters will work for the CZ P10.
The P07 and P09 are excellent pistols, as well as any of the 75 series.
In all honesty, find what fits your hand the best, that you like and rock on. It is very hard to go wrong these days.
H&K is 80’s technology...they are still selling cardboard at diamond prices...they are quality...but exceptionally hyped
bench
WTF are you babbling about? All I asked the other poster was what is wrong with a da/sa pistol?
I have competed with both personally when time permits and shoot either them "decent" enough since everything is relative.
If you shoot a striker pistol better than a da/sa... Hooray for Charlotte your not the OP
OP should be picking a pistol that "they" shoot the "best" not what you think is a better platform.
My initial question was already answered by the guy I questioned why are you answering for him?
Nice way to totally side step the question.
Especially funny given the Glock believers always stated opinion (as shown just a couple posts above yours),
I've been through a pretty good number of H&K pistols over the years in the USP series, the P30 series, the HK45 Series, the VP series and never had any of them fail to go bang on me.
(That being said, they are setup for actual "work" ammunition and IF you really limp wrist a very light target 9mm load, you may get a feeding problem, but that's to be expected of something that can run the hot stuff really well).
Did you experience a H&K from any of those modern series I listed above failing to go bang right out of the box with quality ammunition?
Nothing wrong with Glocks, but I'd take a VP series H&K over a Glock any day, I'd say out of the box, the VP would feel a lot more refined and smoother than a Glock to the average user. (but I prefer the P30/HK45 series and the CZ75 platform in full sized stuff).
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but sights are really important, and an advantage of Glocks is how many different sights are available. Of course, a lot of people like these HD sights that look like sumo wrestlers, and then tell themselves that a 5 inch group at 7 yards is fine cause the guy is still dead. But with good sights, glocks are not innacurate guns.
Things have changed in my personal life and now I look at differently and just don’t want to shoot anymore
I know there are so many good guns now days it’s awesome! I love the way the CZ P10c feels in my hands, actually all CZ pistols are comfortable. It’s just hard to decide with so many options
I think everyone makes a valid case for their particular preference of sidearm. If you have access to a range that rents firearms, the best thing, IMHO would be to shoot different ones that make your short list. It was mentioned earlier about sights, and I would add that recoil can be drastically different also, especially if going with +P Ammo. Best wishes and happy shooting!
- Apr 17, 2019
- 129
- 87
I don't have any experience with a gen 1, but love the gen 2. Great ergos and it can be had with an intuitive safety. ALso apex makes great triggers and barrels for them. The barrels are capable of impressive accuracy for a $500 polymer pistol that is also very reliable.
Me
top 2 are silicon carbide. They both need touch ups due to heavy use.....its really less maintenance dependent than you would think...it last me about 2 years of weekly shooting and duty use before I apply new silicon carbide. Do NOT try to carry it appendix though....it will rip your skin off
bottom is stippled
bench
Any modern gun will work
Any modern gun will work
Any modern gun will work
Any modern gun will work
Any modern gun will work
They all work- Find something that fits your hand in a major caliber. For the home, I prefer a rifle or shotgun as primary....
Glocks work- you can buy 5 used Glocks models 17/19 for about $300 each
Get factory 33 round mags
now you have the same gun in each car- one for the kitchen and bedroom...
Any modern gun will work
Any modern gun will work
Any modern gun will work
Any modern gun will work
They all work- Find something that fits your hand in a major caliber. For the home, I prefer a rifle or shotgun as primary....
Glocks work- you can buy 5 used Glocks models 17/19 for about $300 each
Get factory 33 round mags
now you have the same gun in each car- one for the kitchen and bedroom...
Relatively few people have the time or budget to learn to shoot a DA trigger as well as an SA trigger, and even then you’ve never seen one at a Bullseye match have you?
Most people who would consider a DA trigger don’t know why they shouldn’t. Most people aren’t Jerry Miculek or Ernie Langdon.
there are certainly advantages to light SA triggers, particularly in competition, but the requirement is for HD and general carry, where safety in stressful situations (for that first shot) may take precedence over performance on paper. (and you don't have to shoot DA).
dry fire is an oft ignored activity. i recommend a laserlyte (momentary laser) for people that tend to yank a heavy DA trigger.
you can see your shot swing because the light duration is long enough to make a dot or a smear in the direction you're moving.
you are right though...that some folks will have trouble no matter how much they practice, because small hands or whatever.
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that 617 has such a butter smooth da trigger compared to my sigs (even the oldest one).
don't dry fire it though, unless you have some wall anchor inserts or snap caps.
I have to agree with those saying most of the modern pistols from reputable companies will work. I have experience with gen 3 9mm and 45 glocks, hk vp9, and m&p 2.0 9mm. I like them all to be honest, and would be fine with any of them. I currently slightly prefer the m&p 2.0 for the ergonomics, 1911 style safety, and the apex barrel I will fit to it at some point.
I’ve heard 2 different trainers say the da/sa students have a handicap in the class running those guns. The CZ sounds like a solid option, although I’ve never handled one. In reality, what is more solid and ubiquitous than the G19/G17? They also have unparalleled aftermarket support. Just be sure to change the sights.
*I would add that the CZ Shadow 2 is my favorite out-of-the-box gun to shoot. But I wouldn’t carry it
*I would add that the CZ Shadow 2 is my favorite out-of-the-box gun to shoot. But I wouldn’t carry it
I am tied to the SIG P series- it was and still is as far as I know an issue pistol in my military group, and the most commonly used. I've put tens of thousands of rounds thru P226s, under all kinds of conditions, and I'll say that they'e easily one of the most reliable weapons that we had. The M2 Browning is right up there too. Ours- I hear the new .50s with quick-change barrels aren't that great.
Glocks are popular, I've carried them, I've carried one in the military as a personal back-up weapon. They are reliable, except for the .40s ( I wouldn't own a SIG .40 either) and pretty much impervious to salt water, but I just can't stand Glocks $2 cap- gun trigger. You can put an aftermarket trigger in one, but to me it's still a (lighter) $2 cap gun trigger. It's just the design of the thing.
I carry a Glock 10mm around here, because we have bear and lion all over, but I'm building a 10mm 1911 right now and once that's finished the Glock will be collecting dust.
Using a P226, I've done extremely well in competitions and taking defensive courses, but I'm always the oddball- Glocks are overwealmingly popular almost everywhere. Yes, you have to work a bit to learn the DA pistol drill, but you have one long DA pull followed by an excellent single action trigger from there out. I much prefer that to having the same crappy trigger pull every time.
1911s I love too, best potential pistol trigger out there, but it's a dated design. We fired many thousands of rounds per day training, and I once broke 3 1911a1s in one day. Had one go full auto on me in an indoor range once too, and once was enough. I'd say the 1911 is an outstanding target pistol, but it has to be carefully built to be a reliable defensive weapon. Parts selection is a big part of that also.
SIG has served me extremely well. I'd certainly reccomend a P226 or most P2 series pistols to anyone. I've tried the new P320s out, and that single action trigger seems to be much better than the Glocks. I'll wait and see how they do on reliability and durability.
Glocks are popular, I've carried them, I've carried one in the military as a personal back-up weapon. They are reliable, except for the .40s ( I wouldn't own a SIG .40 either) and pretty much impervious to salt water, but I just can't stand Glocks $2 cap- gun trigger. You can put an aftermarket trigger in one, but to me it's still a (lighter) $2 cap gun trigger. It's just the design of the thing.
I carry a Glock 10mm around here, because we have bear and lion all over, but I'm building a 10mm 1911 right now and once that's finished the Glock will be collecting dust.
Using a P226, I've done extremely well in competitions and taking defensive courses, but I'm always the oddball- Glocks are overwealmingly popular almost everywhere. Yes, you have to work a bit to learn the DA pistol drill, but you have one long DA pull followed by an excellent single action trigger from there out. I much prefer that to having the same crappy trigger pull every time.
1911s I love too, best potential pistol trigger out there, but it's a dated design. We fired many thousands of rounds per day training, and I once broke 3 1911a1s in one day. Had one go full auto on me in an indoor range once too, and once was enough. I'd say the 1911 is an outstanding target pistol, but it has to be carefully built to be a reliable defensive weapon. Parts selection is a big part of that also.
SIG has served me extremely well. I'd certainly reccomend a P226 or most P2 series pistols to anyone. I've tried the new P320s out, and that single action trigger seems to be much better than the Glocks. I'll wait and see how they do on reliability and durability.
If you like hammer fired guns like the P30, then also the p226 and cz 75 series/sp01. The hk da/sa is definitely below average on da pull, but the lem is interesting. I actually like da/sa Normally but hk is more intriguing in lem as even normal da/sa use tends to pull the first shot.
I guess if you have like fucking ZERO mechanical aptitude a P-10 might be confusing.......
FIFY
No safety to fuck around with and a much more forgiving trigger system
But you have to actually know how to shoot to use one.
Oh and..........DA/SA FTMFW. Make sure you turn up the volume
True the p07/p09 are good too, I like the lok grips available on the steel frame. It points a little faster for me when I use the shot timer. I just use the decocker omega typically for carry. But the polymer is lighter by a few ounces. The magazine capacity is a nice thing with the p07/p09
You obviously have never shot one........
The excuse every loser makes because they fail at learning how to shoot a double action trigger.
A two way range would expose a lot of weakness in most people's plans.
In about 20 years, the technology should be about right for someone to setup shooting competitions that are 2 way range simulated.
Your "Sniper" competition is going to be a lot different when it's incoming at the same skill level as your outgoing.
Simunitions is here today. I have my own setup.
Why wait? Let's get it on now.
Well that's not true, I've got 2 sitting in the safe now. Now if you say I have limited experience shooting the Glock that would be more correct. Also in this thread I've learned the CZ is much "flippier" in recoil than the Glock....
Please expound on the many differences and virtues of each so that we may all drink from the vast wealth of knowledge.
I'd need a couple million to get the two way sniper competition I'm thinking of setup, so that's the first problem.
The second is I want some very specific biofeedback direct controlled robotics which aren't quite ready yet.
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