The inverse of that is true also; if you're loading max pressure annealing won't extend the life of your brass.
- Thread starter TSparger
- Start date
The inverse of that is true also; if you're loading max pressure annealing won't extend the life of your brass.
I guess I didn't take into account that someone could be so emotionally involved with their brass that they feel the need to spend $1400 for a machine that soothes it. I'm an F-class competitor (boo, hiss, shut up and go away) and we are always looking for maximum velocity with maximum precision; hence the fancy boutique bullets and so on. I buy my brass in lots of 500 cases. Lapua released the Palma brass aimed at F-class shooters. That's the .308 Winchester case with a small rifle primer pocket, designed to increase the strength of the case head and retard the inevitable primer pocket expansion. Unlike benchrest shooters, and you it seems, we do not give individual names to all our cases, nor to do we wine, dine and bed them. We prepare them well, cull as needed and rotate through them.
I get 500 cases, because that's about as much ammo as I would need to go to the Nationals and shoot MR and LR, team and practice and have some extra. After 8 firings of 500 cases, I drop the barrel, get a new batch of 500 cases and start over again. By that time, I can put in the primers almost without a tool. I have never had a case split, but I have had primers drop off on the 8th firing.
I have Giraud annealer, but I quit using it years ago as I found out annealing made no difference in my regimen.
I also have the Giraud trimmer, and that gets used heavily. I run all my brass through it after it's been cleaned, deprimed, resized and so on; just before priming them. The Giraud trimmer and the Autotrickler V3 (and soon V4) go well with my Redding T-7. The annealer sits on a shelf.
But if you do buy the $1400 annealer, you have to use the heck out of it and load lightly.
(I have shot with guys who get exactly one firing from their Lapua brass; they load beyond hot.)
Hmmm an F-Class shooter who doesn’t understand annealing... 
I think from now on, whenever I see someone complain about an AMP being too expensive/not worth it/doesn’t do anything... I’ll take it like them putting their hand up and saying “I don’t really know as much as I think I do” and just skip over everything/anything else they say...
I think from now on, whenever I see someone complain about an AMP being too expensive/not worth it/doesn’t do anything... I’ll take it like them putting their hand up and saying “I don’t really know as much as I think I do” and just skip over everything/anything else they say...
Emotionally involved in as much as I do not like paying $1 per case and getting less than half the reloads out of it I expect having been annealing for many years. Honestly, with most cases I would feel ripped off at 8X. Perhaps I was too dramatic in making that clear...
Yes, annealing came from BR and was originally done to give them uniform neck tension. It is almost a side effect that it alleviates work hardening. Both are positive physics effects for reloading/precision, or at least they will not hurt anything unless you grossly roast your brass. Is annealing somewhat voodoo? I'd say yes, but I do believe it extends the life of my brass, and it is an easy part of my routine.
Why does anyone shooting competition need to have maximum velocity? Is there no speed limit in F Class? I certainly don't want anemic ammunition, but I find in the middling 2900s is ample to reach out to 1,500 yards, is well within the published maximums, and which is generally further than any F Class match, is it not?
I also buy 500 cases at a time so that I can shoot two two day matches without hitting the bench. Before I annealed, which is a long time ago, I did get quite a few split necks. I would say more than loose primer pockets. I run my .300WM pretty hot, and even annealing I will split necks occasionally.
I used to anneal with a hand held torch and it took forever. I bought an early Annealease in the $200s, and do not understand why anyone would use anything else, because I can load around 100 cases, turn it on, and it's self feeding. I can be doing other things while it's running on the bench. If I only got two more firings out of my brass it would easily pay for itself rather quickly. As it is I get a lot more out of it, though I do agree that moving away from the expander ball probably has as much or more impact on the life of brass.
I haven't run rifles or pistols as hot as I can since I was a teenager trying to blow up my dad's pythons and 29s with 120% loads of shotgun powder. I thought I was Elmer Keith.
I run through two barrels per season and feel like I'm always buying new brass, and those are the biggest expendable expenses I have in my shooting hobby. Going with a switch lug, and annealing have done a lot to mitigate these expenses. I don't mind spending money, and I get why people who are big fans of turret presses are stoked about the zero, for sure.
I just don't like wasting money. Even if you buy the most expensive annealer (which is as necessary as paying $1,400 for a press) if you shoot enough it will pay for itself. I like feeling like I'm getting full value if not a good deal. Feeling like I'm wasting hard earned money, or getting ripped off is what makes me pissed. Mostly at myself for making a dumb decision.
Yes, annealing came from BR and was originally done to give them uniform neck tension. It is almost a side effect that it alleviates work hardening. Both are positive physics effects for reloading/precision, or at least they will not hurt anything unless you grossly roast your brass. Is annealing somewhat voodoo? I'd say yes, but I do believe it extends the life of my brass, and it is an easy part of my routine.
Why does anyone shooting competition need to have maximum velocity? Is there no speed limit in F Class? I certainly don't want anemic ammunition, but I find in the middling 2900s is ample to reach out to 1,500 yards, is well within the published maximums, and which is generally further than any F Class match, is it not?
I also buy 500 cases at a time so that I can shoot two two day matches without hitting the bench. Before I annealed, which is a long time ago, I did get quite a few split necks. I would say more than loose primer pockets. I run my .300WM pretty hot, and even annealing I will split necks occasionally.
I used to anneal with a hand held torch and it took forever. I bought an early Annealease in the $200s, and do not understand why anyone would use anything else, because I can load around 100 cases, turn it on, and it's self feeding. I can be doing other things while it's running on the bench. If I only got two more firings out of my brass it would easily pay for itself rather quickly. As it is I get a lot more out of it, though I do agree that moving away from the expander ball probably has as much or more impact on the life of brass.
I haven't run rifles or pistols as hot as I can since I was a teenager trying to blow up my dad's pythons and 29s with 120% loads of shotgun powder. I thought I was Elmer Keith.
I run through two barrels per season and feel like I'm always buying new brass, and those are the biggest expendable expenses I have in my shooting hobby. Going with a switch lug, and annealing have done a lot to mitigate these expenses. I don't mind spending money, and I get why people who are big fans of turret presses are stoked about the zero, for sure.
I just don't like wasting money. Even if you buy the most expensive annealer (which is as necessary as paying $1,400 for a press) if you shoot enough it will pay for itself. I like feeling like I'm getting full value if not a good deal. Feeling like I'm wasting hard earned money, or getting ripped off is what makes me pissed. Mostly at myself for making a dumb decision.
@Fig I like your response a lot. Good reading, well explained. In F-Class, we run as hot as possible and also go overboard, always looking for the next node. It has become a game of inches and the faster you go, the less time spent in conditions and all that. So we look for the highest BC, highest velocity and tune for highest precision. That's also why you see tuners on barrels now.
Back to annealing. The main reason for case neck splits is due to overworking the brass. I have my barrels chambered to specific dimensions and my sizing die is adjusted so that it bumps back the shoulder about .001 or less. Also, the chamber is set tight so there is little room for expansion during obturation. In fact the fired shell can almost hold a bullet. I use a bushing die to squeeze the neck back to what I want and the movement is just a few thousands. This dictates that I have clean shiny brass at all times or the bolt may not close.
Back to annealing. The main reason for case neck splits is due to overworking the brass. I have my barrels chambered to specific dimensions and my sizing die is adjusted so that it bumps back the shoulder about .001 or less. Also, the chamber is set tight so there is little room for expansion during obturation. In fact the fired shell can almost hold a bullet. I use a bushing die to squeeze the neck back to what I want and the movement is just a few thousands. This dictates that I have clean shiny brass at all times or the bolt may not close.
A close friend of mine just won the state F Open Long Range. He's not loading anywhere close to max, probably more than likely under minimum. Palma is an entirely different animal and if you're using it as an excuse to over pressure your F class rig I'd be pretty skeptical of any advice you have to give on the subject. Frankly, your post reminds me of C class shooters giving Master class shooters advice on how to make GM over on BE forum.
The three F class guys on youboob I watch, all quite well known sone at the national levels, seem to run some pretty reasonable velocities as well.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you bigly there.
My experience so far across multiple cartridges and firearm, and multiple years... Annealing extends the life of your brass.
The only exception to this I've found is when you run light loads. Sub 50kpsi, real passive. (155gr 308win @ 2500fps 26" barrel bolt gun, etc..).
I started annealing because my brass was getting hard to size and getting cracked necks.
Since I’ve started annealing I haven’t had a cracked neck since and my sizing is far more consistent.
Now I get 15+ loads out of my brass regularly and sometimes more than double that like my previous lot of 260 brass.
I’m still a torch and socket caveman
I went with the Amp to prolong my brass life, as simple as that. Any other benefits long term is gravy to me...
Been loading for more then 40 years, to be honest this was the best added procedure I could make to get quick and immediate benefits.
I'm annealing after every firing now. Amp makes quick and simple work of it. Plus, my son acts as my Amp Mate...
Been loading for more then 40 years, to be honest this was the best added procedure I could make to get quick and immediate benefits.
I'm annealing after every firing now. Amp makes quick and simple work of it. Plus, my son acts as my Amp Mate...
I started annealing because my brass was getting hard to size and getting cracked necks.
Since I’ve started annealing I haven’t had a cracked neck since and my sizing is far more consistent.
Now I get 15+ loads out of my brass regularly and sometimes more than double that like my previous lot of 260 brass.
I’m still a torch and socket caveman
I think the thing with the AMP that makes it special (and I guess what makes it pricey as well) is that it does the same exact thing every time, over and over again, same anneal every time and one can't really screw it up unless they go out of their way.
Is it worth $1500? IDK... for me, for now it is, because I don't know of anything that does the same trick.
Are the open flame annealers as good? ...almost, but only almost. With those one can never really duplicate the same exact flame over and over, or really even twice in a row... plus, other variables can get introduced inadvertently: the nozzle can get bumped slightly out of position, the flame can shrink/weaken as the tank drains, etc... Is it a huge deal? IDK, any annealing is better than no annealing IMO, but reloading is all about consistency so the less shit that changes loading cycle to loading cycle the better.
Honestly, aside from the "smart" Aztec mode analyzation stuff (that is truly unique technology), seems like the AMP is primarily an induction heating coil that's married to a timer and an upside down shell-holder doohickey...
Seems like if someone could come up with a "dumb" induction annealer with programmable timer, that was in the ~$500-600 range, I bet they'd sell a bunch of them...
Is it worth $1500? IDK... for me, for now it is, because I don't know of anything that does the same trick.
Are the open flame annealers as good? ...almost, but only almost. With those one can never really duplicate the same exact flame over and over, or really even twice in a row... plus, other variables can get introduced inadvertently: the nozzle can get bumped slightly out of position, the flame can shrink/weaken as the tank drains, etc... Is it a huge deal? IDK, any annealing is better than no annealing IMO, but reloading is all about consistency so the less shit that changes loading cycle to loading cycle the better.
Honestly, aside from the "smart" Aztec mode analyzation stuff (that is truly unique technology), seems like the AMP is primarily an induction heating coil that's married to a timer and an upside down shell-holder doohickey...
Seems like if someone could come up with a "dumb" induction annealer with programmable timer, that was in the ~$500-600 range, I bet they'd sell a bunch of them...
*ahem*
Annie Induction Annealer | HS 851490
Introducing the Annie Induction Annealer! This heater was specifically designed to anneal brass rifle cartridges in preparation for reloading. With over 1200W of induction heating capacity, most ca…
fluxeon.com 
Some interesting and good advice/stuff on this thread. However, I did not see any mention of the 21st century mini lathe and all the things it can do. Best money I have spent. 3 way trimmer is the bomb. I turn necks every now and then, but switch to Alpha OCD brass and it very consistent right out of the box. And I agree with some comments that the CPS is a bit pricey. But I love mine and would spend the money again. Having busted up hands with as much as we shoot, it has really saved on the hand pain and time priming.
Now that you are an expert in F-Class, could you please do me a favor and tell all the F-Class folks you meet that they should load their ammo under minimum, and certainly not anywhere near max. They should also not bother with Lapua .308 Palma brass; regular brass is just fine and will last forever with annealing. Maybe the price of the Lapua .308 Palma brass will come down some.
As for velocities, @Steal head is right. I get right around 2700 FPS as an MV with my F-TR rig in .308 Winchester.
I'm no expert but FT-R / Palma isn't F Open. Everyone understands that FTR is high pressure but for whatever reason you conflated FTR with the entirety of F class, which it isn't.
Let me correct a few things: It's F-TR, not FT-R or FTR. Palma has nothing to do with this except that in F-TR we use Lapua .308 Palma brass for the SRPs. Why would anyone understand that F-TR is high pressure and that it would not be the same in F-Open? I conflated nothing, F-Class is F-class.
The only time that I remember when we have had to consider throttling back the loads was at the 2017 Worlds in Ottawa because the range had an MV/BC limitation and I remember some grumbling in the F-Open ranks. I have heard of other clubs overseas that has some similar restrictions. There may be some in the US also, but I'm not familiar with those. I've only been to the various Nationals venues for the last 12 years or so and not heard of any restrictions at those venues.
When we run etargets, I see the terminal velocity differences between the F-Openers and the F-TR folks; the F-Openers are not holding back.
For all who are interested, Brownell’s has the Area 419 ZeroTurret Reloading presses are in stock.
Zero Turret Press
NDIH, just wanted people to know
Zero Turret Press
NDIH, just wanted people to know
Quoted so you can't delete it.
The argument of semantics is ridiculous. If you want 185 Juggernauts to make 1K super sonic you need to push up the pressure.
I made a few calls to make sure I'm not totally out in left field. F-Open, 284 Win with 180/184 Berger @ 2700fps out of 30" to 32" barrel. 15 firings. 2500 round barrel life. 100fps to 150fps left on the table. Say what you want but that isn't pushing pressure. I'm sure there are some random WSM or Shehane shooters pushing the limits but all they get is shorter barrel life for their trouble. No one ever claimed there were restrictions.
I'll let you get back to mesmerizing me with your hyphen placement.
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*ahem*
Annie Induction Annealer | HS 851490
Introducing the Annie Induction Annealer! This heater was specifically designed to anneal brass rifle cartridges in preparation for reloading. With over 1200W of induction heating capacity, most ca…
IDK man... on a "pain in the ass to use and live with" scale of 1 to 10: an AMP is like a 2... that thing looks like a 37.
That's not really what I had in mind at all. Now I feel like I was being a cheap-ass saying an AMP is pricey.
Nah, it’s super easy. A bit of 750 tempilaq on the neck to the shoulder and it takes 10 test cases max. Using the small jaws 300blk is around 1.2 seconds, 223 1.7. Medium jaws dasher, xc, creed, 270-06 based etc are all 3-3.5. Don’t shoot mags so no tests with that size.
Easy test to see where the tempilaq turns and then you’ll find you have to center the shoulder in the jaws and not the neck to have the shoulder and neck turn together. And you don’t have to do it again if you write the time down.
And you don’t have to melt a case to do it.
Easy test to see where the tempilaq turns and then you’ll find you have to center the shoulder in the jaws and not the neck to have the shoulder and neck turn together. And you don’t have to do it again if you write the time down.
And you don’t have to melt a case to do it.
I resized a couple hundred 6br cases today on my Zero press and Short Action Customs resizing die. Then I put them in my blue collar Hornady vibratory tumbler to get the One Shot lube off. Then I trimmed and chamfered them on my Giraud. I had to move my Amp out of the way so I could prime them with my CPS. I’m too lazy to fill the primer tubes by hand so I used my Dillon RF-100 for the CPS tubes. Tomorrow I’ll move the rest of that shit out of my way so I can put my other/second Autotrickler v3 in it’s place to drop powder using both Autotricklers since I’m impatient. And then I’ll “confirm” neck tension with a 21st century mandrel before rotating the turret one last time to seat 105 Berger hybrids with SAC‘s “The” seating die.
But it’s all blue collar after that when I throw those pretty loaded rounds into a fedex envelope with “5x fired” written on it with a cheap blue sharpie clone marker and put them in a cheapo plastic ammo box.
I’m not good enough to need this stuff, but it’s a status symbol so I brag about it. Definitely works good enough to kill deer at 58 yards.
But it’s all blue collar after that when I throw those pretty loaded rounds into a fedex envelope with “5x fired” written on it with a cheap blue sharpie clone marker and put them in a cheapo plastic ammo box.
I’m not good enough to need this stuff, but it’s a status symbol so I brag about it. Definitely works good enough to kill deer at 58 yards.
username checks outI resized a couple hundred 6br ... to kill deer at 58 yards.
Least he didn't resize several hundred 300norma to kill deer at 68meters.
Sir, you are first class! I will be purchasing a CPS from you in the very near future.
Thank you! Much appreciated!
still looking for a good comfortable stool or seat for my reloading room might have to make one lol been thinking about high back chair 18 to 24 '' of gell padding and plug in massaging unit on wheels .
like this but with wheels
lol
like this but with wheels
lol
As with everything, the return on dollar is fairly linear for a good while, but at the top, it really starts to flatten. The items you're looking at are definitely well past the "most value" point. FWIW.
I tried using a stool. I have LVP flooring in the pharmacy (where freedom pills are made) and my stool slides so damn well on the floor that it is a serious hazard trying to get into it from a standing position. But my stool is chi-fine, definitely not high end like this thread demands. Lower than blue collar.
I think high end presses like are not worth it from experience. I find that a $150 Arbor press with a $100 chamber die is the best I can find. Its a little slower, but for precision loads I think this is what you want. I think also, like ultimate reloader found, that the RCBS press for the money, in terms of a press, is as good for straight bullet seating. Its not as good as the chamber die with arbor, but its really good. I also found Forster die is better than my other dies, for how concentric the rounds are. I think the most overrated items in reloading is high end scales. I have like 30 scales. And a $30 off Amazon that reads to .02 grain is very good. I think if you want to do volume loading, the Dillon XL750 is good enough. I loaded 10,000 rounds in 2 days with it.
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-Zero Press
-V4 and/or Prometheus
-Amp Press
-Amp Annealer w/amp mate
-Giraud and/or Henderson trimmer
-Hydro Press
-Non hydro 21st century arbor
-Autodod
-Primal Rights CPS
-Primal Rights PrimeWhere
-Mitituyo and Starrett calipers and various micrometers
-SAC comparators
-SAC or Warner Dies
-SEB Neo Front rest and Bigfoot bag (you need to be able to have the most stable rests to exploit what your rifle is actually capable of)
Plus custom mandrels and such.
I use different combinations of these depending on my goal for the ammo. Some tools make better ammo and some make things faster/easier. Some do both.
None of them do I have any buyer’s remorse for.
-V4 and/or Prometheus
-Amp Press
-Amp Annealer w/amp mate
-Giraud and/or Henderson trimmer
-Hydro Press
-Non hydro 21st century arbor
-Autodod
-Primal Rights CPS
-Primal Rights PrimeWhere
-Mitituyo and Starrett calipers and various micrometers
-SAC comparators
-SAC or Warner Dies
-SEB Neo Front rest and Bigfoot bag (you need to be able to have the most stable rests to exploit what your rifle is actually capable of)
Plus custom mandrels and such.
I use different combinations of these depending on my goal for the ammo. Some tools make better ammo and some make things faster/easier. Some do both.
None of them do I have any buyer’s remorse for.
Nice list, but no 21st century 3 way trimmer on their mini lathe?
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Oh, ya. I forgot. I have the lathe and the trimmer attachments.
But I prefer Giraud for trimming and autodod for turning.
However, if you just want to skim or outside turn, the 21st lathe is the best tool for that. By far.
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With all the recent discussion of primer seating depth consistency, I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned more with the findings posted of the more popular tools
Precision Primer Gauge
The Precision Primer Gauge takes precision measurements of primer pocket depth and the depth of seated primers in relationship to the face of the case head.bullettipping.com
I’m waiting for mine to come in to compare to Primal Rights PrimeWhere.
Haven’t talked much about the PrimeWhere as I like to use things for a bit before giving an opinion. But it’s a solid tool that will remain on my bench.
I
Got it, and use it for bullet seating / primer checking. Really impressed with it's speed and repeatability.With all the recent discussion of primer seating depth consistency, I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned more with the findings posted of the more popular tools
Precision Primer Gauge
The Precision Primer Gauge takes precision measurements of primer pocket depth and the depth of seated primers in relationship to the face of the case head.
I load for myself and my son. I have also loaded for teams of over a dozen and produced Army and National Champions.
For me, I always look for the sweet spot to produce affordable quality precision ammo. That doesn't mean cheaply, as my time also comes at a premium.
For ammo production, these are some of the tools I've invested in over the years. Johnny Cash one-piece-at-a-time wasn't nearly as painful as buying all at once.
Presses
for pistol, two Dillon 550s (one for small primers and one for large);
for service, combat, and sniper rifle a Forster CoAx using RCBS Small Base Dies for sizing and Forster Benchrest Seating dies (alternately between a Forster, Dillon, or Redding T7, depending on speed and volume required;
for .338 Lapua Magnum a Redding Ultra Mag and Warner dies.
Case prep and handling
Thumler's (dry) Tumbler
Ken Light Annealing Machine
Home-made spray case lube (lanolin and HEET)
Frankford Arsenal (Wet) Tumbler
Dillon media separator
Dillon primer pocket swaging machine
Giraud, Forster, and Wilson Trimmers (depending on caliber)
Wilson and Dillon drop-in case gages (for spot-checking length)
Lee Auto-Primes (the old ones)
Dial micrometer
Cartridge measuring
Stoney Creek (now Hornady Lock-and-Load) headspace tools and gages
Powder charging
Dillon powder measures (on the machine) for pistol;
Redding BR3 measures;
Two Chargemaster 1500s;
RCBS (Ohaus) 5-0-5 scale
If I could afford it:
Building a climate-controlled hand loading / production facility like the Army Marksmanship Unit's with all the gadgets and built-in test range. The loading staff has Olympic Gold and Silver Medalists and one fella who actually wrote the book on loading for AR service rifles --
Results from AMU handloads fired with a sling and a 4.5 power scope at 600 yards:
Sling and iron sights from an AR-10 at 1,000 yards (the yellow shot spotters mark the first two sighting shots -- best 4-man team score decides the National Champion Team):
For me, I always look for the sweet spot to produce affordable quality precision ammo. That doesn't mean cheaply, as my time also comes at a premium.
For ammo production, these are some of the tools I've invested in over the years. Johnny Cash one-piece-at-a-time wasn't nearly as painful as buying all at once.
Presses
for pistol, two Dillon 550s (one for small primers and one for large);
for service, combat, and sniper rifle a Forster CoAx using RCBS Small Base Dies for sizing and Forster Benchrest Seating dies (alternately between a Forster, Dillon, or Redding T7, depending on speed and volume required;
for .338 Lapua Magnum a Redding Ultra Mag and Warner dies.
Case prep and handling
Thumler's (dry) Tumbler
Ken Light Annealing Machine
Home-made spray case lube (lanolin and HEET)
Frankford Arsenal (Wet) Tumbler
Dillon media separator
Dillon primer pocket swaging machine
Giraud, Forster, and Wilson Trimmers (depending on caliber)
Wilson and Dillon drop-in case gages (for spot-checking length)
Lee Auto-Primes (the old ones)
Dial micrometer
Cartridge measuring
Stoney Creek (now Hornady Lock-and-Load) headspace tools and gages
Powder charging
Dillon powder measures (on the machine) for pistol;
Redding BR3 measures;
Two Chargemaster 1500s;
RCBS (Ohaus) 5-0-5 scale
If I could afford it:
Building a climate-controlled hand loading / production facility like the Army Marksmanship Unit's with all the gadgets and built-in test range. The loading staff has Olympic Gold and Silver Medalists and one fella who actually wrote the book on loading for AR service rifles --
Results from AMU handloads fired with a sling and a 4.5 power scope at 600 yards:
Sling and iron sights from an AR-10 at 1,000 yards (the yellow shot spotters mark the first two sighting shots -- best 4-man team score decides the National Champion Team):
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Reading this thread would make one believe they need $5k + in equipment to make decent ammo. I'm over here in the early stages of load development with the same $1k'ish in gear I've been using for years. Can't seem to make this one shoot over .5 moa. Good barrels and components and you're 80% there, pushing them into each other really isn't that complicated. Learn your equipment and pay attention. 
No one is saying it's not possible. Many people can't shoot that good to begin with (myself in that demographic). It's about knowledge. Knowing what works, via closely measuring, analysis and such, can help people give sound advice.
Repeatable speed is also a huge factor for people. Paying extra to shave off 1sec of handling time per case.
Repeatable speed is also a huge factor for people. Paying extra to shave off 1sec of handling time per case.
I get the time aspect, I don't have much of it. There's a lot I don't do (like annealing) due to time. If brass gets finicky I'll order new. An autotrickler would be a big upgrade in that regard. I use a lot of varget and the chargemaster kind of sucks at throwing it, I've got to remove a bit of powder from probably 50% of the charges it throws. It takes me a long time to charge a couple hundred rounds.
oh surprise, someone came in the thread and said you don't need fancy equipment again...
These are pretty nice.....still looking for a good comfortable stool or seat for my reloading room might have to make one lol been thinking about high back chair 18 to 24 '' of gell padding and plug in massaging unit on wheels .
like this but with wheels
View attachment 7705271
lol
I load for myself and my son. I have also loaded for teams of over a dozen and produced Army and National Champions.
For me, I always look for the sweet spot to produce affordable quality precision ammo. That doesn't mean cheaply, as my time also comes at a premium.
For ammo production, these are some of the tools I've invested in over the years. Johnny Cash one-piece-at-a-time wasn't nearly as painful as buying all at once.
Presses
for pistol, two Dillon 550s (one for small primers and one for large);
for service, combat, and sniper rifle a Forster CoAx using RCBS Small Base Dies for sizing and Forster Benchrest Seating dies (alternately between a Forster, Dillon, or Redding T7, depending on speed and volume required;
for .338 Lapua Magnum a Redding Ultra Mag and Warner dies.
Case prep and handling
Thumler's (dry) Tumbler
Ken Light Annealing Machine
Home-made spray case lube (lanolin and HEET)
Frankford Arsenal (Wet) Tumbler
Dillon media separator
Dillon primer pocket swaging machine
Giraud, Forster, and Wilson Trimmers (depending on caliber)
Wilson and Dillon drop-in case gages (for spot-checking length)
Lee Auto-Primes (the old ones)
Dial micrometer
Cartridge measuring
Stoney Creek (now Hornady Lock-and-Load) headspace tools and gages
Powder charging
Dillon powder measures (on the machine) for pistol;
Redding BR3 measures;
Two Chargemaster 1500s;
RCBS (Ohaus) 5-0-5 scale
If I could afford it:
Building a climate-controlled hand loading / production facility like the Army Marksmanship Unit's with all the gadgets and built-in test range. The loading staff has Olympic Gold and Silver Medalists and one fella who actually wrote the book on loading for AR service rifles --
View attachment 7773753
Results from AMU handloads fired with a sling and a 4.5 power scope at 600 yards:
Sling and iron sights from an AR-10 at 1,000 yards (the yellow shot spotters mark the first two sighting shots -- best 4-man team score decides the National Champion Team):
Man 3 right side light NCOs smh... When was this sinister?
Vyper Chair | Green Bay WI
Vyper Chair, Green Bay, Wisconsin. 11,444 likes · 1,591 talking about this · 59 were here. E-commerce website
www.facebook.com Yes smart ass. And unlike your post, mine is pertinent to the OP's original post. His dilemma is to spend his "hard earned money" on high-end reloading gear while there are other purchases such as a Vudoo 22 that he would also like to make. I'm sure he already knew this but he CAN load extremely accurate ammo and have his Vudoo too. That's what my post intended to demonstrate.
