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High points/low poinTs, of H&K and Springfield

Rodo

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 24, 2013
48
3
Kodiak, AK
I have a chance to get a either a pre ban unfired H&K PSG variant, or I can go with an M1A. Ive seen a lot of both on here in the photo threads, so I know there are plenty of folks with first hand knowledge on each.

What are some of the highs and lows of each, that way I have more info to go onto either jump on the H&K, or just hold off until my fav shop gets the M1A scout back in, and EBR stock the thing.

Id like to go to 1000 yards, so if one can and the other cannot, thats priority 2, right after accuracy.
 
Its an apples vs. artichokes comparison between a TRUE HK PSG-1 (you said "variant" and that to me spells it may not be a true PSG-1 or and any Springfield M1A Scout/SOCOM variant, including but not limited to their respective pricetags.

Between the two rifles you referenced, and keeping in mind your stated goal of shooting out to 1,000yds accurately...neither really is a 1k performer by design. First, the PSG-1's optic (the 6x Henny) is generally NOT of the best quality for a variety of reasons and really, 6x is not enough juice for some targets beyond 600 or so (personal preference...opinions will vary). The optics are all that clear, the reticle sucks, the illumination, if you can get it to work, is not good...it is just a major POS by all accounts when compared with even more budget-minded optics of modern MFG. Unless it happens to be a PSG-1 A1 you can acquire (HIGHLY unlikely), the 6x Henny is what you are stuck with from the factory...the A1 gets you a very highly respectable S&B 3-12x50 PMII which is a great optic in all regards...especially when compared to the 6x Henny. ;)

BUT...with that in mind...the PSG-1 wins hands down, no questions asked, end of story in a rifle-to-rifle accuracy battle. Not that the M1A Scout/SOCOM rifles aren't capable for what they were designed to do...but long-range precision rifles they are NOT...not even with tons of upgrades including but not limited to the EBR chassis. Now, with a ton of time, money, patience, etc., a longer-barreled M1A in a quality stock (bedded or in a chassis system) can be a made into a highly accurate and effective rifle with precision enough for use at extended ranges...but you loose too much potential for performance (accuracy and effectively reaching out to those longer ranges) with the Scout type variants.

Now, in terms of downsides of the PSG-1...

1) cost (you could easily buy at least 2 extremely high-quality, top end, large-frame AR platform rifles in a suitable caliber of your choosing, with optics/mounts/etc. that will equal or exceed the performance of the PSG-1 with a shooter who knows what they are doing behind the butt of a semi-auto and with quality ammo);

2) nearly non-existent support for the US Civilian market from HK USA (although you technically shouldn't need it ;) );

3) almost a complete lack of modularity/upgradability/aftermarket supprt/etc. for the PSG-1 (again...if it fits you out of the box, you like the trigger which is a good one for most people, and you don't want to/need to do a bunch of "upgrading" or otherwise changing the rifle around...the PSG-1 is a nice piece by all respects. If you want something to play around with, add/upgrade to/modify/etc., then I'd skip it).

4) long-ass (read...TOO LONG) barrel for a semi-auto that, combined with the PSG-1 buttstock, helps heave the rifle, fully equipped, into almost the 18lb range.

Those are just a few things...I's sure others will come along and expand. ;)

Good luck!
 
If you are recoil sensitive. You are going to feel it with the HK system. more of a jolt. However, with the PSG, it will be less than the standard HK91/G3 due to the weight of the rifle.

The M1A will be more forgiving in terms of recoil and more of a shove to the shoulder.
 
Sent one of the guys at the gun store a text, the H&K model is the SR9T. Dont know if that will change anything or not.

Im not too knowledgable in semi's, but have been wanting to buy/build one for a while, and Im finally in a position to get started, just dont want to go the wrong way in the end, but like both of the rifles and general variants of the two specifically in question.
 
Sent one of the guys at the gun store a text, the H&K model is the SR9T. Dont know if that will change anything or not.

Im not too knowledgable in semi's, but have been wanting to buy/build one for a while, and Im finally in a position to get started, just dont want to go the wrong way in the end, but like both of the rifles and general variants of the two specifically in question.

Well an SR9(T) is nowhere even close to the PSG-1 by any measure of accuracy, performance, capabilities, etc. The SR9 series rifles were more or less one of HK's neutered transitional period/ban era solutions to the import ban on the HK-91 that began in 1989 and produced until the Clinton era ban which began in 1994. It is a sporting rifle with features changed/modified/added to comport with the ban, including the basic SR9 having the thumbhole stock, 19.7" (1:11 twist polygonal) plain-muzzle barrel (i.e. - no threads for FH, etc.), "sporting" forend/handguard which, unlike the HK-91 would not easily mount a bipod, no bayonet lug, etc., etc., etc. The basic SR9 (from which ALL SR9(T) and SR9(TC) rifles were made/altered into) was a the entry level model in the lineup and, as you would imagine, was the model in which the most numbers were produced. The SR9(T) and SR9(TC) were altered models which adopted less "sporting" features and more "target shooting" oriented features, but which still met BATFE approval to remain able to meet the "legitimate sporting purposes" mandate of the ban. The SR9-T model added the MSG-90 buttstock assembly (which I personally prefer to the PSG-1 stock) as well as the PSG-1 trigger pack and grip, but retained all the other features of the basic SR9. The SR9-TC went a step further and added the PSG-1 buttstock assembly. Those that were upgraded were hand-struck/stamped (usually very lightly) with the upgrade letters T and TC after the SR9 marks on the L side of the receiver above the magwell. Thus, it is VERY difficult if not next to impossible to determine a "genuine" HK factory T or TC model from a basic SR9 rifle that was modded after the fact on the civilian side with the upgraded parts I mentioned above. HK can't (or otherwise won't) confirm the provenance of the T and TC rifles...only whether your serial number may or may not fall within the range in which the upgraded models were produced (again, making the aftermarket rifles easy to pawn off as the real deal).

The value of the SR9(T) is not even close to the ballpark of the PSG-1. Most, assuming excellent or better condition (as VERY few are actually NIB) go for no more than ~$3500 or so (without optics, mounts, addt'l mags, etc.). I know of one example that is more or less as new as you can readily find them these days, in like new condition, that is properly marked (caveat emptor as to the legitimacy of the marking aside from it is within the date code range), and comes complete as it would have from HK USA...its been for sale for MONTHS, including during all the recent craziness, and the seller can't for the life of him get the $3995 asking price he wants for it if that tells you anything. The SR9 series rifles were capable for what they were designed to do. Again, with a shooter that knows what they are doing, and with quality match ammo (and preferably reloads designed for the rifle within mag limitations), they can be better than MOA capable if you get a good one. Most hover around MOA with respect to the upgraded models and the basic models around 1.5MOA or so (worst I have seen with an SR9 was ~2MOA...still nothing to sneeze at for a battle rifle in sheeps clothing ;) ).

In this day and age, with all due respect to the HK and the MIA options you are considering, if you want a high quality, accurate .308 gasser...you owe it to yourself to go with a large-frame AR platform rifle and be done with it, especially for the money you are looking to drop on what will ultimately be an inferior product and potentially a disappointment for you, especially for use out to 1k. By way of example, a basic DPMS SASS as one factory production rifle that is readily available right now, brand new in the box, can be had for under $2k. Add a quality optic suitable for your end game, mount/rings, a stack o' mags, a bipod, etc. and you'll have a sub-MOA capable rifle, setup and ready to roll for likely a bit less than you'll spend on the HK just for the rifle minus all the other trimmings unless your guy store guy is willing to cut you a steal of a price or he knows he's got a basic SR9 parts gun upgraded to SR9(T) configuration by Joe Bob in his basement. ;)

If you really want an education on the SR9 series rifles and their capabilities, pros/cons, estimated values, etc., head over to HKPro's forums and have a read through a multitude of threads over there re: the rifles. More info than you could ever want. Again though, and I wouldn't be doing my job for you as a fellow Mountaineer if I didn't say it once more...do yourself a HUGE favor and skip both the rifles you are considering for your stated purposes and buy (or build) a quality, large-frame AR platform rifle. You'll thank yourself for going that way down the road...trust a certified HK-o-phile on that one (especially one who owns a factory SR9TC and an MSG-90 clone who is telling you to go a different direction)!! ;)
 
Ord, thank you very much. I was seein SR9's with asking prices almost double the one I found, and as stated, not knowledgable in semi auto rifles for anything beyond battle capable. Think I'll go back to seeking out my Sig 716 precision, or maybe digging into building a precision 18.5 in SCAR17.
 
psg has a dark side like the rest of the roll lock systems -very high maintenance set up --read on the web on bolt gap[of the hk roller lock weapons] and parts are very expensive ......recoil is NOT due to the 2 stage buffer/recoil system plus if you add the hk21 stock pad .......but weight and length are down sides too ...... real nice weapon
 
As the owner of a H&K SR9TC I agree with ORD. Spend the money for the SR9T and get the SIG 716 you mentioned (I own one as well) and some good glass that will cost you know more than the H&K. In addition the recoil of the H&K is quite a bit more recoil than the AR 308 platforms I own and they are tough on brass.