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higher end binoculars

wigwamitus

wigwamitus

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Jan 5, 2014
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#1
I'm sliding into selling myself on carrying binos more versus a spotter.

And at the same time, keeping range finders separate.

So looking for 'high end" binos that aren't too large/heavy. So around 10x42 would probably be perfect.

So I have Zeiss and Swarovski on the list. Any other suggestions, comments, rationales ?? All are welcome.

Given what I've said, budget is around $3k or under.

For higher magnification spotting, I will use the scopes on the rifles, such as NF 7-35x T3. And that also provides reticle enabled spotting.
 
#3
I recently bought a pair of Leupold BX-5 Santiam 15x56 binos, and am very impressed with them. I'd been looking at getting into a pair of 15x56s for quite some time, but more or less choked on the price of the Swaros, and had read several less than complementary reviews of the Vortex Kaibabs. That left going with the Leupolds as my best option, so after Leupold dropped the MSRP by $250, I dug out $200 in Cabela's gift cards & used the $154 in club points I'd saved back on my Club Visa card, which got me into a set of these binos for under $900. They're definitely not compact nor lightweight, but still considerably less bulky than a spotter, especially anything with an objective 65mm or larger. And, with any 15x binos, you really need a tripod to steady them and get the benefit of that much magnification. I know a lot of guys here look down there noses at Leupold stuff, but their top-end binos have always impressed me, even when compared to my Swaro 8x30 SLCs. No, I've never had the pleasure of using a set of Swaro ELs, but these Leupold BX-5s are plenty good enough to please me, and I think they're a very good value - especially after they dropped the MSRP.
 
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#6
wigwamitus said:
So looking for 'high end" binos that aren't too large/heavy. So around 10x42 would probably be perfect.

So I have Zeiss and Swarovski on the list. Any other suggestions, comments, rationales ?? All are welcome.
Click to expand...

My opinion is that even at 10x42, having the binos on a good tripod makes a MASSIVE difference. Easily 200% in terms of ability to resolve fine detail. And if you're going to be carrying around a tripod for the binos to get the most out of them, does it really matter that much whether they are 10x42 or 12x50 or 15x56 for weight? All of them will have a very large field of view but going to the extra magnification of 12x or 15x will mean that much more often that you won't need the spotting scope.

With a budget of $3k I'd be looking at either Swaro EL 12x50's or Swaro SLC HD 15x56.
 
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#7
Agree 100% with Sheldon....get the 12 or 15x and call Doug at camera land he will save you some money...I was pretty much set on the swaro SLC HD after talking with Doug I went with the Meopta meostar HD 15x56 and these things are amazing to say the least.
 
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#8
... My opinion is that even at 10x42, having the binos on a good tripod makes a MASSIVE difference. Easily 200% in terms of ability to resolve fine detail ..
Click to expand...

Oh boy ... if this is true I need to rethink my plan !!! :D

(back to the reading ... )
 
#9
wigwamitus said:
Oh boy ... if this is true I need to rethink my plan !!!
Click to expand...

Oh, it's very true. And the other thing is even if you can see detail when using handheld, there's still a fair bit of movement which makes it harder for separating out what movement is from your hands vs bullet trace or small splash from bullet impact or mirage or animal movement if you're a hunter. When the binos stop moving, everything else comes alive.
 
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#11
Well, first stabs at a rethink.

I'm probably already carrying a rifle and a tripod (I shoot rifles off tripods about 90% of the time) with a range finder on the rifle. Right now, the rifle usually has NF 7-35x T3 ... so that's a great spotting scope and its on a tripod. So what do I need binos for?
For those cases where I have not yet set up the tripod and just want to scan around and see if I see anything. The detailed scanning could be done with the 7-35x on the tripod.. That's what I got the 35x part for, so that scope could double as a spotter.

So if shaking is critical, then maybe I drop back to the Canon 10x-42 WP stabilized binos to help mitigate the shaking part. What is given up on optical clarity I gain back on stability ?
 
#12
wigwamitus said:
Well, first stabs at a rethink.

I'm probably already carrying a rifle and a tripod (I shoot rifles off tripods about 90% of the time) with a range finder on the rifle. Right now, the rifle usually has NF 7-35x T3 ... so that's a great spotting scope and its on a tripod. So what do I need binos for?
For those cases where I have not yet set up the tripod and just want to scan around and see if I see anything. The detailed scanning could be done with the 7-35x on the tripod.. That's what I got the 35x part for, so that scope could double as a spotter.

So if shaking is critical, then maybe I drop back to the Canon 10x-42 WP stabilized binos to help mitigate the shaking part. What is given up on optical clarity I gain back on stability ?
Click to expand...

Okay, so it sounds like your application is more on hunting than spotting other shooters?

If so, then I'd think it either falls into two categories. One being the quick scout like you describe, the other being the "sit and stare" waiting for something to show up. My comments were really from the perspective of competition shooting where you are watching other shooters to either score for them or to get wind calls and guidance on how you want to shoot. If this is hunting, then I would think that you are either sitting and spotting for longer periods of time from a tripod waiting for something to move in which case I'd say Swaro 12's or 15's, or it's run and gun hunting where a quick scan is all you need, in which case I'd say Swaro 10x42 SLC HD or EL 10x42.
 
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#14
Thanks all for the detailed feedback !!

==
But if lack of a tripod being used with binos reduces the effective resolution by say 2/3rds ... would not we be better off using the Canon WP stabilized binos ?

==
Right, and for spotting for target shooting, my shooting buddy and I use the optics mounted our on rifles for that. So no need for binos for that.

I would plan to wear these in a chest pack so they wouldn't be bouncing around while moving.
 
#15
I have a set of Steiner 10x42s that I carry with my rangefinder, kestrel, small data book and a flashlight in a AGC bino harness. Love em, nowhere near your budget price but as far as mag range and weight go I like 42s a lot. Great FOV and with the glass these have I can see very well out a good ways, I would think with a higher budget like yours it would only improve. I'm sure a tripod will help as well but if your spotting at higher mag with your scope, then I don't think you'll miss much without a tripod on the binos.
 
#16
Swaro and don't look back. If tripod mounted, consider the 15's. If you would reconsider range finder go with the 10x42 Range. I live not too far from you and you are welcome to come try out some glass if you care to do so. I have some Leica, an older Zeiss, Swaro 10x42's R and a Swaro spotter.
We can go to my range to try them if not too wet! PM if interested.
 
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#19
Another person advising me that the words I want to use to describe my use case are more like:

"western style spot and stalk, over large areas of ground with very few trees. Western plains type terrain."


:)
 
#20
Well Swaro EL's were what I started with my eyes on ... but still worried that if I loose 2/3rds of the resolution using them handheld, then I might be better off with the Canon WP stabilized?
 
#21
wigwamitus said:
Well Swaro EL's were what I started with my eyes on ... but still worried that if I loose 2/3rds of the resolution using them handheld, then I might be better off with the Canon WP stabilized?
Click to expand...

IMO, no. The canon's are nice but the glass doesn't begin to compare to the Swaro's. You'll still have extremely good quality picture without having them on a tripod, if you're not spotting steel it's nowhere near as much of a concern. I'd stick with the 10x's if you'll be doing mostly hunting though.

There's a couple pair of EL's listed on here for incredibly good deals, much better deals than you'll get at any retailer and the ones I saw were all the newest models.
 
#22
redneckbmxer24 said:
Swaro EL's or go home. Nothing else compares. Sure there's a lot of bino's that look great, but put them up against EL's and you'll quickly see where they lack.
Click to expand...

Any thoughts on using the EL 12x50 vs the SLC 15x56 primarily for PRS-style matches (on a tripod)? Is the EL line worth the slight cost premium?

Also, can anyone with Rx glasses comment on the ability to see full FOV with either optic? I use shooting glasses with Rx inserts, so they are a bit further away from my eyes than most regular glasses. I usually struggle to get the full FOV while viewing with my glasses on. Only optics I've been ok with have been spotters with Wide Angle eye pieces, like the Razor HD with 25-50x WA eyepiece.
 
#23
Ok redneck, thanks for the input ! And as you probably know from the NV sub-forum, I've been doing the vast majority of my shooting and hunting at night ... though considering doing some day hunting here soon. :)

I'll check out the EL deals you mention. Thanks again !!!

==
And again for everyone, We are fine spotting trace/hits/misses on steel, with the optics on our rifles ... so wanted the binos for quicker ad hoc scanning during the day time.
 
#25
#26
samb300 said:
Any thoughts on using the EL 12x50 vs the SLC 15x56 primarily for PRS-style matches (on a tripod)? Is the EL line worth the slight cost premium?

Also, can anyone with Rx glasses comment on the ability to see full FOV with either optic? I use shooting glasses with Rx inserts, so they are a bit further away from my eyes than most regular glasses. I usually struggle to get the full FOV while viewing with my glasses on. Only optics I've been ok with have been spotters with Wide Angle eye pieces, like the Razor HD with 25-50x WA eyepiece.
Click to expand...

I've used both, never owned either and spent more time with the SLC 15's than the EL 12's. For purely match stuff I'd go with the 15's, the glass is still phenomenal and you give up some FOV but it's really not an issue in a match setting. Both are really best mounted on a tripod.

I can't comment on the use with glasses with any of them, but with all the bird nerds that use Swaro products I'd imagine they probably have it figured out. A quick trip to Cabelas or Bass Pro to put your dick beaters on them would probably answer your question though.
 
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#27
After reading this review, I'm thinking the Zeiss is the lowest risk for me. For one reason only. My current Barska 12x50 "almost" work. But the IP distance is too far apart for my "elf" head, so I see a split image. I measure the minimum IP distance of those binos as 2 7/16. The Swaro EL 10x42 show 2 1/5 so that might be enough, but what if it isn't ? The Zeiss show as 2.11 inches almost a tenth of an inch less ! :D

https://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2017_titans_revisited/review.html

I can try to measure my IP distance, but not sure I can get it exactly. But I will try and see what I get. Seems like an unexpected reason to drive the decision, but the shoe needs to fit !!

It would drive the cost up around $300 but at this level, the decision isn't being made on price.
 
#28
Ok, looking in the mirror and trying to measure my IP distance with a tape measure, I get 2 3/8 inches a.k.a. 2.375 inches which is less than the Swaro EL 10x42 which is over a tenth of an inch less than the 2.21 (56mm) minimum IP distance for the Swaro, so I think that is sufficient margin of error to still be safe with the Swaros. Whew! :)
 
#30
samb300 said:
Any thoughts on using the EL 12x50 vs the SLC 15x56 primarily for PRS-style matches (on a tripod)? Is the EL line worth the slight cost premium?

Also, can anyone with Rx glasses comment on the ability to see full FOV with either optic? I use shooting glasses with Rx inserts, so they are a bit further away from my eyes than most regular glasses. I usually struggle to get the full FOV while viewing with my glasses on. Only optics I've been ok with have been spotters with Wide Angle eye pieces, like the Razor HD with 25-50x WA eyepiece.
Click to expand...
I wear glasses and have not noticed any degradation. If you don''t wear glasses you screw out the eye cups for relief with glasses you leave them in. I will never buy any other brand again. Well. never say never...but you get my point.

PS buy once cry once. It will be a long cry they are pricey, but the best always is.
 
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#31
For items like a binocular I calculate the price based on estimated days per year I will use it.
Since I use mine over 200 days per year that puts the expense into perspective. If I used them 10 days per year I would need to do some serious thinking prior to purchase.
 
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#32
... May I suggest stopping into a local Vision Center or EyeGlass Hut or whatever they have near you ...
Click to expand...

Haha, I live in rural area, so for me that is a 130 mile round trip !

It was easier to measure myself than I expected, I'd just never done it before. I am sure I'm within a 16th of an inch, which is close enough in this particular case. I measured it three times.
==

I go out on the pastures many times per week and multiple times per day during some periods, especially when the cows are calving as they started to do last week. If I get the right pair that help me see better and don't get in the way, then I would take them every time I go on a pasture check and that would be around your 200 times per year, at least.

==
For the past six years, I've been mostly going out at night and sometimes I think I can see better at night than I can in the day. But that's in part because I have thermal, which can see even the bedded down calves through the tall grass, but also because I'm just not as used to going out in the day. But I want to learn to see in the day as well as I can at night and hoping the binos will help me find the calves faster than I can without them. I will be using them off the 4-wheeler, while it is running mostly, so there will be vibration. I typically ride around standing up when I am looking for a calf, but with the binos I will need to stop and do a 180 to the left and a 180 to the right and then roll some more. At night I have thermal on my head and can do 180s back and forth while still moving. But I think in the day I will have to stop. Anyway, it will be a learning exercise, so looking forward to it!
 
#35
Leupolds BX-5 range are as good as any European Bino's, their Mk 4's are good but their BX-4's are top of the line but then they bought out their BX-5's which are about as good as it get's. and they have a long history of supporting the hunting community and the Military,
 
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#36
It really sounds like the op has no need for high power binoculars. I would suggest top tier 7-8x this gives much wider field of view and better low light performance and more forgiving " eye box " so to speak. Perfect for spotting in the field sans tripod.
I have 8x and 10x leica and find the 8x to be my preference
 
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#37
.264, I find that interesting. I have tried and used everything from 7X to 15X and now use 10X exclusively. I still have 8X and 12X high end Binocluar's and seldom if ever use them. Just a matter of habit and taste I guess.
 
#38
Right, I'm thinking 10x42 ... though I have now realized the Zeiss 10x42 Victory SF (just picking one) are slightly larger than my current "low end" Barska 12x50 which I find too large and heavy :D

==
Also, while I am still thinking "high end" as in maximizing image quality ... I have a number of suggesters pointing me into the "mid-market" were there may be some "good enough" entries at 50% to 33% of the cost with 80% to 90% as good an image. So reading reviews on those.

And my personal IP Distance seems to be smaller than the norm at 2.375 inches, which adds a constraint. My Barska's are 2.4375 inches which is too wide.

==
I spoke with a gentleman yesterday who uses binos to spot prairie dogs out as far as 1,500yds ... and he does three passes ... one for movement, one for color and one for shape (he called it "image") ... and that sounds like an interesting process. But obviously quality matters in doing those passes, both resolution and CA.

==

I never realized binos were so complicated !!! I am lovin' the edjumacation !!! :D
 
#39
Sir,
From my experience the mid market optics will yield over 95% of the image the top end will. If I had to put a number to it I would say 98%.
Optics, like many consumer goods have come a long way. It's a mature technology and all the secrets are out.
 
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#40
As a guide and hunter looking for mule deer in sage brush and sheep up high there is nothing better than my 10x42 el's. Also great at my club match once a month. I also have a pair of 20x56 Nikon monarch 5 that I like for spotting trace and splash, no they are not swaro quality. As an owner of some vortex and leupold products they are not in the binoculars business imho.
 
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#42
I find the reviews on the birding forums very honest and in depth. Much more so than my gun mags or hunting shoes. It's where I learned of the mark 5 20x56 nikons.
 
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#43
I agree with the birding reviews of good glass. It seems to be much less biased.
The only pitfall is that bird watching seems to be a gentle and fair weather activity. And hunting is often the opposite.

Also regarding 8 vs 10x if I didn’t carry a spotter I would agree that 10 is often better as a do it all optic. Also depends on if you are trying to count points on a buck or just find a cow elk for the freezer.
 
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#44
I agree with the birder reviews. Even though those folks are not rough use types, they often spring for good, durable glass.
Top end glass is normally in reserved for the high end binoculars that are not fragile.
 
#45
I do know it can be a very expensive hobby if you travel the world just to peer at birds. I wouldn't do it but I prefer bone. LOL.
 
#46
Ok, I wound up going with Zeiss. I looked hard at Swarovski, Leica and Zeiss and also a Nikon Monarch recommended by a member that got great reviews and even beat the high end Leicas (though that review said the Leica might have had a one off issue).
But the Zeiss had an extra 3x magnifier which can convert one barrel of the binos to a 30x.
And here on found some used Zeiss 10x45 RF for a decent price.

So here we go.

The binos on a commanche bag with the 3x magnifier on the right barrel.
45409535814_6608f632f3_k.jpg


==
Image thru the left barrel of mineral feeder at 415 yards on 10x.
32262256648_273c2e4f0f_k.jpg


==
Image thru the right barrel of the mineral feeder at 415 yds on 30x.
46083473412_6cb1784ebe_k.jpg


==
Now I love the image thru the binos on 10x ... amazing ... "3D" sort of image ... with closer tree lines moving as I move, when focused on tree line say 400 yds behind first tree line. And the image is HUGE ... so even though 10x ... looks like it might be much more.

But the image with the 3x magnifier behind is fuzzy. Now three different adjustments seem to change the fuzziness, the rear diopter on the 3x magnifier itself, the diopter on the binos and the main focus on the binos. I tried three times to adjust all three but as shown is the best I could get it. Now B&H sent me the wrong size adapter for the 3x so perhaps that matters if the 3x magnifier is too close or too far away from the rear of the eye piece on the binos.
So, I will continue to work on improving the image of the 3x magnifier ... but as it stands it is still all together impressive and essentially I have a spotting scope that is 10x and 30x (10x on left barrel and 30x on the right barrel) and also a set of ranging binos ... all it one package which is smaller and lighter than a spotting scope, or a spotting scope with a range finder attached. So, this is meeting my objectives and I'm happy with that!
 
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#47
Nice binocular. You will get much enjoyment from it, no doubt.

Most times I don’t have time to fool with adaptors , extra eyepieces etc. I also generally find them lacking fine optical quality. I think they are more of a “make due” device rather than everyday use.
 
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#48
Well on a hunch, I cranked the bino eyepiece diopter all the way clockwise and then focused the main bino focus. And that looks a good bit clearer.

31194879507_494c7406c1_k.jpg


It might not in the pic, but thru lens pics suque regardless, but to the MK01EB the image is noticably better.

==
"make do" still might be useful ... and much lighter than carrying a separate spotter scope !
 
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#50
Tried one more "trick" .. tried opening the window !! :D Those above pics were taken thru the closed window ... that helped more also !!! DUH !!!
 
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