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Holland - they have researched the mask- interesting

Yep. Its always easier to be submissive. Its easier to be a coward everytime. You both got that right.

What about our children that are supposed to wear them for 8-10 hrs a day when children not only DO NOT spread the virus but have exactly ZERO risk of having any kind of complications from the virus. Influenza kills many many more children than this virus. The last report released from the CDC that I read reported 31 kids under the age of 19 have succumbed to the virus. At least that's how many are listed as we know these numbers are fake. Countries around the world also prove no risk for kids. This information is non-debatable at this point. So why the masks for children? Why masks in school for 8hrs? Why force children to bear the burden because of the cowardice and stupidity of the general population? Does it have something to do with teaching them to submit?

I will continue to fight this shit like I have been at the local and state level. You guys comply. Shameful.
Here's something to ponder...

Sadly a gentlemen down the street adopted a puppy about February time from. The puppy is dead now. No fault of owner; but the little cute critter (and he was really a cute dog...had natural "socks") developed some lung bacteria from they think at "day care" or just walking around sniffing. Regardless, he had lung failure or something after being on meds for 4 months!! Mind you, I had my critter there once...and that was it when he came home with a bloody eyeball and lethargic and they acted like this was "normal" after 1 day and 2 nights boarding.

Now, hopefully no school children are sniffing arse, but one wonders how much bacteria are going to be on children's masks by say 10-11:59, not to mention by 14:00. Are they going to be changing them out frequently? Are the parents responsible for cleaning them? I actually think there is likely a greater risk of some type of fungal infection on K-6 than dying of COVID. Face it, most kids are nasty, filthy creatures building their immune system. LOL.
 
I don't suppose you had the covid like I did.
Too sick to walk without falling over, not able to breath and feeling pain head to toe for no damned reason.

Head numb like super hangover stupor.

Contemplating a choice of dying at home or in the hospital.

Some others in the family had a 3 day flue mine was over a month.

That was early on and nobody wore a mask.

Not entirely sure if I can survive it again.

Go ahead and call me a coward,
Wife has that beat daily.
Your not a coward but having the disease does not make you an expert either. To force me to agree goes against everything I thought liberty stands for. If those without masks scare you, stay away. You can always say I told you so if I die.
 
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There is some evidence for the efficacy of masks. A coworker was quarantined because he went to a city council meeting and someone there tested positive for COVID. The person who tested positive war wearing a mask at the meeting, and none of the 30 or so people there tested positive. I don't like the masks, I don't think the government has any right to tell everyone to wear one.
 
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No place have I ever said I would force you to wear a mask.

I'm 62 have breathing problems from workplace exposure to some bad shit.
Can't go through that covid again probably.

Around here you'll be tossed off the gun range, out of the grocery and liquor store.

I'll save what fight I have left for more important issues.
 
Not busting your balls but can you point me to the actual study that proves this beyond doubt? Also you know in that picture they are cutting people open right? Even though they try and protect the patient from contamination some still get infections correct?

I would like to see a study of battlefield wound infection rates vs hospital surgical infection rates. The folks patching soldiers up wear no mask and they are normally in a less than sterile environment. Someone somewhere must have that data.

Just because something has been done forever does not mean it's correct.
If you defer to “experts” and “studies” for all your opinions I can’t help you. If you need a study to tell you that using an umbrella in the rain will HELP keep you dry, I can’t help you.
MOP 4 CBR suits will protect you against COVID, nerve agent, etc. Anything less is only going to help. Wearing a mask cuts down on airborne transmission, just like keeping your distance from someone who is sick. I don’t need a study to tell me this. Do not confuse that with the supposition that I think anyone can or should force you to wear one.
Have studies shown global warming is going to kill us all? Asking for a friend.
 
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Seriously doubt the shity masks are much use unless wearers are coughing or sick but if it keeps some germs contained ok.

I'm just trying to stay alive so I can yank your chain for fun.
 
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Did your ignorant, political parents teach you to cover your mouth when you cough? Those lying commies! Or, do you just cough all over whomever is in front of you? Hands don’t stop viruses don’tchaknow?
The CDC and Fauchi are proven liars. Believe whatever you want. I will keep my own council and trust my own (un)common sense.
 
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I wear an M99 with the activated charcoal. It won't stop viruses either, but it's a hell of a lot better than a dust mask.

The idea is not to "stop" anything. You can't unless you go full CBR suit like they do with the actually dangerous shit like ebola.

We CAN'T stop this. We probably never could. It was probably here a month or two before we were even aware of it. The whole purpose of the initial lockdown was to flatten the curve so that we are infected, an inevitability, at a rate where those who are vulnerable and have comorbidities do not overwhelm the system. We have done that remarkably, but the leftist fucktards keep moving the goal posts like there is some policy they can institute that will "stop" this virus. There isn't one, and they're just political liars. We will all either get covid, or get the vaccine. It's going to be one or the other, and the vulnerable have to self quarantine till there's a vaccine, because you cannot do that again to the country, period.
 
Was contemplating a ski vacation in New Mexico this year over Christmas. Right now there is a 2 week quarantine in effect for all out of state visitors to New Mexico. I guess we'll take our money elsewhere this year.


Easier to comply than to bitch. Yep. As any face covering will do, the thinnest and lightest material is a winner.
No matter how you feel about masks the few things I know for sure are, they help feed the fear and they help divide the people. We are all bio weapons now and must be feared and avoided. Something is not right with that.

China and the Dems dream about this.
Walked by a guy in lowes the other day. He was wearing a mask, I wasn't. He literally stopped, took a half step back and looked at me as I passed by him. You could see the terror and disbelief in his eyes behind the mask. Never came within 10' of the guy. They've got us right where they want us.
 
I had some young woman and her child behind me in Target about 2 weeks ago when I gave up trying to get coffee (just needed some, I'm off coffee in the mornings) and the woman ahead of me was too busy worrying about sugar, fishing her pennies out, etc. These two behind me were not in my COVID space, I truly thought the mother was about to jump my bones she was so close. Had she been better looking I may have asked if that was her intention. Not just in my COVID space, but WAY in my personal space. AT times like that, I wonder if open carrying would ward them off or if they are that freaking oblivious.
 
I wear an M99 with the activated charcoal. It won't stop viruses either, but it's a hell of a lot better than a dust mask.

The idea is not to "stop" anything. You can't unless you go full CBR suit like they do with the actually dangerous shit like ebola.

We CAN'T stop this. We probably never could. It was probably here a month or two before we were even aware of it. The whole purpose of the initial lockdown was to flatten the curve so that we are infected, an inevitability, at a rate where those who are vulnerable and have comorbidities do not overwhelm the system. We have done that remarkably, but the leftist fucktards keep moving the goal posts like there is some policy they can institute that will "stop" this virus. There isn't one, and they're just political liars. We will all either get covid, or get the vaccine. It's going to be one or the other, and the vulnerable have to self quarantine till there's a vaccine, because you cannot do that again to the country, period.

Great post @Fig , pretty much summed up my thoughts.

I decided to wear a mask in public places where distancing can be difficult on the 0.0000000001% chance I could spare someone from being infected. If the chance is greater than zero (which it is, from a pure mathematics perspective), then IMO it is worth it.

But I do realize how much politicians (and mouthpiece media) are preying on fear and using covid to further agendas, control, to point fingers, gain power, make money, etc...
 
I call B.S.

I wear this while driving.

0186F495-F672-4899-9D25-708BBE1048BE.jpeg
 
You all must realize that the staffing at the WHO and CDC are mostly the same caliber of government "authorities" that have been pushing the global warming hoax for 20+ years, too. We aren't even supposed to have any polar ice caps left in 2020!

Common sense is a lot better than the TV propaganda called "news".
 
I see both sides of the argument.

I'm in AZ, and I wear a mask because it's been mandated by our lame governor. A lot of people are operating on the borderline of pure hysteria, due to all the rhetoric and hyperbole being spread through MSM and social media, its not worth the fight or confrontation of not wearing a mask. I can see how some cling hope to masks, it's a dark time for a lot of people, and to some the mask represents some semblance of hope and control.

Like many here, I question the efficacy of the mask in mitigating transmission of COVID-19. I also question the government's and healthcare officials narrative on this "pandemic". We've been lied to, misinformation has been purposely spread to protect China, and they've been extremely inconsistent in their message. The WHO have flat out said that there's been no "high quality or direct scientific studies" that have been done on non-medical mask use and it's ability to mitigate transmission of the virus. I'm cynical by nature, especially when it comes to the government. I don't trust them, and I don't believe that anything they do is in my best interests.

It's okay to question things, especially since the message is coming from a group that's lied in the past, purposely spread misinformation, and has been really inconsistent in their message throughout this event. Wearing a mask is intrusive and uncomfortable, I despise wearing a mask, and I would question the government and healthcare officials on that premise as well.
 
I hear some anti-maskers are wearing Fish Net Stockings as masks...are YOU...MAN ENOUGH???
 
Just wait another few weeks when Ragweed season starts. Right now I rarely hear a cough or sneeze when out in public. My wife takes one of those OTC drugs during ragweed season and she still does about 4 or 5 five sneezes in a row on occasion. She will be popular as she works as a grocery clerk.
 
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If masks are the government prescribed panacea to solving this, why are these cunts recommending a 2nd LOCK DOWN?

 
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Boost the economy? Isn't the lockdown what killed the economy? Welcome to Bizzaro world...
 
Soooo, the CDC or any health organization, university is absolutely not to be trusted. Yet any source that supports your thoughts IS!!!

Dude you are proving my point more and more.

Don't know how trustworthy they are, but they change their minds pretty often.
 
I see both sides of the argument.

I'm in AZ, and I wear a mask because it's been mandated by our lame governor. A lot of people are operating on the borderline of pure hysteria, due to all the rhetoric and hyperbole being spread through MSM and social media, its not worth the fight or confrontation of not wearing a mask. I can see how some cling hope to masks, it's a dark time for a lot of people, and to some the mask represents some semblance of hope and control.

Like many here, I question the efficacy of the mask in mitigating transmission of COVID-19. I also question the government's and healthcare officials narrative on this "pandemic". We've been lied to, misinformation has been purposely spread to protect China, and they've been extremely inconsistent in their message. The WHO have flat out said that there's been no "high quality or direct scientific studies" that have been done on non-medical mask use and it's ability to mitigate transmission of the virus. I'm cynical by nature, especially when it comes to the government. I don't trust them, and I don't believe that anything they do is in my best interests.

It's okay to question things, especially since the message is coming from a group that's lied in the past, purposely spread misinformation, and has been really inconsistent in their message throughout this event. Wearing a mask is intrusive and uncomfortable, I despise wearing a mask, and I would question the government and healthcare officials on that premise as well.

You are not going to find studies on mask vs no mask, because it would be unethical to send a bunch of people in to be infected with no PPE, so the best you will find is analyzed data from current events, or "experiments of nature" as the article calls them. They do claim to have some compelling evidence about the commonality of pre-symptomatic and a symptomatic spread. And anecdotal as well as common sense evidence that a mask will contain some of the viral load.
 
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Care to explain whats funny about that wade2big? You have some information that the people studying this don't?
 
No place have I ever said I would force you to wear a mask.

I'm 62 have breathing problems from workplace exposure to some bad shit.
Can't go through that covid again probably.

Around here you'll be tossed off the gun range, out of the grocery and liquor store.

I'll save what fight I have left for more important issues.


Been all around dfw. I’m all across the metroplex every day. Only had to wear one once so far, for my wife OB appointment. Got to see my little girl on a sonogram so it was worth it. Otherwise I have not worn a mask a single other time and I absolutely refuse too. Go into stores every day, gun range, etc. no mask for me.

I understand you got it and damn near killed you. You should take more precautions to protect yourself. A cloth mask doesn’t cut it. Get you a p100 filter and learn how to actually wear a mask.

What you all look like wearing a cloth masks thinking it’s doing a damn thing to slow the spread.

322DFE77-BFB9-48CB-B3F4-D91CDE611646.jpeg
 
Did your ignorant, political parents teach you to cover your mouth when you cough? Those lying commies! Or, do you just cough all over whomever is in front of you? Hands don’t stop viruses don’tchaknow?
The CDC and Fauchi are proven liars. Believe whatever you want. I will keep my own council and trust my own (un)common sense.

I never cover my mouth. I've found I don't have to be concerned with social distancing as others will do that for you.
 
I don’t want to sound closed minded but it would take a lot to get me to change my mind considering the politics involved. I dont mean Republicans vs Democrats either. I mean the government vs all of us.

I know in my little part of the world, cases have went up dramatically since our mask mandate over a month ago despite nearly 100% compliance. I’m not necessary relating the increased cases because of the masks but despite them. This virus doesn’t transmit any differently than any other respiratory virus and yet here we are.

I think certain types of masks could benefit people as there is plenty of evidence if worn, handled, stored, and discarded properly. I think cloth masks do not fall into this category and its not even close. I do not think that mandating masks for everyone benefits the general population at all considering the reasons just mentioned and many that I didn’t. I believe they are mandated for physiological reasons and with nefarious intentions. I’m not ant-mask even though I won’t wear one because I have my own beliefs which I think everyone here is clear on.

Back in March in the big Covid thread I said viruses will run their course regardless of what we do. We cannot stop a virus. We have to just go on with our lives. The good news is this virus is less dangerous than the flu for the vast majority of the population. For others it seems to be the opposite. This is China’s fault and all those that conspired with them to release this thing.
That’s fine, and I’m with you on all of that, except bending science to conform to political views, vis a vis, masks which the government and the left (same thing) first said didn’t work, and then made then mandatory. The left could give a fuck about science. They murder babies, and claim they’re not human beings! There’s nothing more anti-science than that except maybe wereallgonadie from man-made global warming.

The left will politicize ANYTHING. Theyre so certain they have all the answers and know what’s right for you they will justify anything in pursuit of power.

Fighting that fire with fire won’t work, or at least not in this situation. Fight lies with truth, fiction with fact, and people will see whose reasonable and who’s not.
 
Not busting your balls but can you point me to the actual study that proves this beyond doubt? Also you know in that picture they are cutting people open right? Even though they try and protect the patient from contamination some still get infections correct?

I would like to see a study of battlefield wound infection rates vs hospital surgical infection rates. The folks patching soldiers up wear no mask and they are normally in a less than sterile environment. Someone somewhere must have that data.

Just because something has been done forever does not mean it's correct.


USN Study;

Objective:

To describe risks for, and microbiology and antimicrobial resistance patterns of, war trauma associated infections from Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Background: The invasion of Iraq resulted in casualties from high-velocity gunshot, shrapnel, and blunt trauma injuries as well as burns. Infectious complications of these unique war trauma injuries have not been described since the 1970s.

Methods: Retrospective record review of all trauma casualties 5 to 65 years of age evacuated from the Iraqi theatre to U.S. Navy hospital ship, USNS Comfort March to May 2003.War trauma-associated infection was defined by positive culture from a wound or sterile body fluid (ie, blood, cerebrospinal fluid) and at least two of the following infection-associated signs/symptoms: fever, dehiscence, foul smell, peri-wound erythema, hypotension, and leukocytosis. A comparison of mechanisms of injury, demographics, and clinical variables was done using multivariate analysis.

Results: Of 211 patients, 56 met criteria for infection. Infections were more common in blast injuries, soft tissue injuries, >3 wound sites, loss of limb, abdominal trauma, and higher Injury Severity Score (ISS). Wound infections accounted for 84% of cases, followed by bloodstream infections (38%). Infected were more likely to have had fever prior to arrival, and had higher probability of ICU admission and more surgical procedures. Acinetobacter species (36%) were the predominant organisms followed by Escherichia coli and Pseudomonas species (14% each).

US Army Study;

Conclusions: One-third of combat casualties from Iraq and Afghanistan develop infections during their initial hospitalization. Amputations, blood transfusions, and overall injury severity are associated with risk of infection, whereas more easily modifiable factors such as early operative intervention or antibiotic administration are not.


From Johns Hopkins: Skin is a natural barrier against infection. Even with many precautions and protocols to prevent infection in place, any surgery that causes a break in the skin can lead to an infection. Doctors call these infections surgical site infections (SSIs) because they occur on the part of the body where the surgery took place. If you have surgery, the chances of developing an SSI are about 1% to 3%.


Navy Battlefield triage infection rate : 56 out of 211 = 26% (Those 56 had to fit a particular criteria there may be more if the particular criteria for this study is oped up)
Army Battlefield triage infection rate: 33%
Hospital: 1-3%

Not sure how much masks have to do with it but those are the numbers.
 
I don’t want to sound closed minded but it would take a lot to get me to change my mind considering the politics involved. I dont mean Republicans vs Democrats either. I mean the government vs all of us.

I know in my little part of the world, cases have went up dramatically since our mask mandate over a month ago despite nearly 100% compliance. I’m not necessary relating the increased cases because of the masks but despite them. This virus doesn’t transmit any differently than any other respiratory virus and yet here we are.

I think certain types of masks could benefit people as there is plenty of evidence if worn, handled, stored, and discarded properly. I think cloth masks do not fall into this category and its not even close. I do not think that mandating masks for everyone benefits the general population at all considering the reasons just mentioned and many that I didn’t. I believe they are mandated for physiological reasons and with nefarious intentions. I’m not ant-mask even though I won’t wear one because I have my own beliefs which I think everyone here is clear on.

Back in March in the big Covid thread I said viruses will run their course regardless of what we do. We cannot stop a virus. We have to just go on with our lives. The good news is this virus is less dangerous than the flu for the vast majority of the population. For others it seems to be the opposite. This is China’s fault and all those that conspired with them to release this thing.
That’s fine, and I’m with you on all of that, except bending science to conform to political views, vis a vis, masks which the government and the left (same thing) first said didn’t work, and then made then mandatory. The left could give a fuck about science. They murder babies, and claim they’re not human beings! There’s nothing more anti-science than that except maybe we’reallgonadie from man-made global warming.

The left will politicize ANYTHING. Theyre so certain they have all the answers and know what’s right for you they will justify anything in pursuit of power.

Fighting that fire with fire won’t work, when you don’t control so much of the culture. Fight lies with truth, fiction with fact, and people will see who‘s reasonable and who’s not. I think we win with the truth, not by going just as full retard as they are.
 
Not busting your balls but can you point me to the actual study that proves this beyond doubt? Also you know in that picture they are cutting people open right? Even though they try and protect the patient from contamination some still get infections correct?

I would like to see a study of battlefield wound infection rates vs hospital surgical infection rates. The folks patching soldiers up wear no mask and they are normally in a less than sterile environment. Someone somewhere must have that data.

Just because something has been done forever does not mean it's correct.

There may be things about trauma medicine you dont know if you dont work in the biz.

Open wounds get scrubbed in a way I promise most here would vomit or pass out
If an open fracture, add in a bit more cleaning.
The patient is given antibiotics as quickly as possible on arrival. Wounds are sometimes washed with antibiotic solution and/or packed with antibiotic powder before closing. Or not closed for days or weeks and kept healing and clean with a wound vac.

We do the same thing in the civilian world. Works well most all of the time.

I kid you not, heard of a guy with a stick the size of a man’s thumb through his skull and stuck in his brain. (I saw the pic).
no infection after surgery.
Also have seen several patients who had an Emergent Thoractomy who suffered no infection. That is where someone pours on the betadyne and a surgeon opens the chest on the left side and sticks their hands in.
Last year I was doing CPR and had the surgeon (a friend) tell me to watch out as he placed the scalpel between my fingers and started to cut. Good times savin lives.
 
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Granted, my CWD training is dated, but I recall gas masks did not protect against biological...or CO2.
The fact that you call it CWD, and not CBR, is what dates you. I’ve never even heard of CWD and I served in the early ‘90s when they switched from calling it NBC to CBR. Our M40 masks had a disposable C2 filter that would stop almost everything (Down to 80nm) nerve agent and chemical is about the smallest hand hardest to stop and it would stop anything down to molecules the size of ammonia, which is 99%. You really have to go self contained to get to 100%.
 
Masks working or not isn't the root thing to discuss. The current message is that non symptomatic people are immoral for exhaling unfiltered air. This new standard of morality is ludicrous.

Assume for a moment masks are 100% effective at stopping all infectious transmissions.

I still won't wear one if I lack symptoms. If it is now morality for non symptomatic people to wear masks, they must be worn forever.

Covid isn't the only germ that can kill people. How will it become moral again to stop wearing masks?

The groundwork has been laid to declare that non symptomatic people are responsible for any person that may get a virus from them down the infinite infection chain. I disagree that this should be the standard.
 
The groundwork has been laid to declare that non symptomatic people are responsible for any person that may get a virus from them down the infinite infection chain. I disagree that this should be the standard.

You're not wrong with this last statement. See below as a N=1 example:

 
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Masks are not a catch all to stop the virus, but apparently they help to some extent. People don't seem to understand that this is a CONTAGIOUS virus and unless you live in a pre-antiseptic bubble, you STILL might get the virus, no matter what precautions one takes. The peeps who refuse to wear masks only care about themselves. Masks are not for protecting oneself, but to protect others, including your own families. If you don't have a family, then thank goodness you are the last of your line...SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST is one that can also reproduce.
 
You're not wrong with this last statement. See below as a N=1 example:


Good link. Pair this with all the twitter sphere mimicking quotes echoing the same sentiment and it's clear that large groups of people now believe maskless humans are immoral scum.

But they won't hold themselves responsible for any infections they passed on over their life prior to March 2020.
 
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I mentioned it before, i am not anti-mask, but I am also not one to believe the mask is going to solve this issue by itself.

I remember early March or April time frame when this narrative started kicking off it was: Social Distance or MASK.

That seemed to die really quickly and now it is mask up no matter when you are outside, which I just find illogical. I walk my dogs daily outside and stay away from people easily, yet I still get looks and scowls from the boomers who are double masked with face shields.

Sorry not sorry. If you are still sacred and/or not able to move 6 feet away from me while outside, full well knowing the virus is almost all but killed by the UV light, GTFO.
FB_IMG_1596631338308.jpg
 
So you wear a mask at home at all times? Do you not ever hug and kiss your wife and children? If you answer no to the first and/or yes to the second.......shut up.

Your ignorance is showing...DUMBASS!
 
So you wear a mask at home at all times? Do you not ever hug and kiss your wife and children? If you answer no to the first and/or yes to the second.......shut up.
But yours shines brighter.

Is this the Gretard brigade trying to shut up anyone they don't agree with, don't have a melt down guys?

I would love to see some of this science that said masks don't work. So far everything in this thread I have read, that was supposed to support that, did not.
 
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Is this the Gretard brigade trying to shut up anyone they don't agree with, don't have a melt down guys?

I would love to see some of this science that said masks don't work. So far everything in this thread I have read, that was supposed to support that, did not.

Here are some of the studies I've come across that do not align with other RCTs/meta analyses, and/or asking for more research to be done. None of them deal specifically with COVID-19, but other related virus families.

I have just as many studies supporting the use of masks, FWIW:





Some related science about transmission being primarily driven by other variables:



Some other related science demonstrating N-95 masks (not normally what is worn by the public) may show potential in reducing SARS transmission:


Some more science speaking about aerosols as a primary vector of influenza:

 
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