Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up

hic28

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Searched for 147 ELDM jacket separation or bullets blowing up/coming apart down range on here and one dead thread with 7 posts about the 147 and another on the 180 ELDMs.

Over the past 2 weeks i've talked to at least 15 people who have experienced both factory Hornady 6.5PRC and reloads using 147gr ELDM bullets coming apart between 40 and 150 yards down range.

June 13/14th and 20/21st I had back to back matches. The NF ELR outside of casper and SnipersHide Cup in eastern Washington. I planned on shooting factory 300PRC 225ELDM for the ELR and factory 6.5PRC for the hide cup. Normally I would reload but I bought a house just before the covid bullshit and i've been putting in new flooring. I haven't even unpacked my reloading equipment. I had time to prep and test the 300PRC which was showing good results, I didn't bother testing the 6.5PRC because I was going to shoot the same lot and barrel that I shot at the NF ELR last year and had zero issue.

At the NF match, the factory 300 worked pretty well, yet one of the guys in my squad (Steve) was going to shoot factory Hornady 6.5prc. During zero, he got 5 round on target which grouped around 1-1.5 inches. Pretty horrible really considering last year that same rifle with the same lot of ammo was shooting 1/2 inch. He asked me to zero his rifle to double check he wasn't just screwing something up majorly. I got behind the rifle, double checked turrets were zeroed, picked a fresh shoot-n-see and broke a shot. Nothing. I had @NoLegs24 get behind me and watch over top to look for anything out of the ordinary. Second shot I took, I watched a banana appear about 6 inches away from point of aim and I hear laughing behind me as he said there was a white puff around 40 yards down range.

B6E12D96-C236-4122-B36F-34A130F28F9F.png
I passed the target around to a few people at the match and multiple people spoke up saying they have either experienced the same thing themselves with the 147gr ELDM or they know of some who has had the same issue.

Luckily we drove to Wyoming and most of us brought 2 guns. Steve was able to use a 6x47 which he got some hits at 1400 with.

After the match, we drove home and because the SH cup requires short action calibers, I swapped to my 6.5PRC barrel (Bartlein 5r - 1:8) and had a bunch of factory hornady. It worked great last year so I figured it would be fine this year as well. Fast forward to thursday and we flew out to Spokane. Pulled my rifle out to check zero since I didn't even have a chance to shoot between getting home from Wyoming and flying to Spokane.

Fuck me, wouldn't group for shit and bullets were blowing up just past the 100 yard line.
View attachment 7358289

Here is a link to the video of it blowing up. set playback speed to .25 and quality as high as can go and you will see them pop then impact the dirt

Cleaned the shit out of the barrel to see if maybe there was a carbon ring increasing pressure as velocity was at 3060. Removed all carbon and no luck. still popping them.

This was damn frustrating because of all the time and money spent to get to this match just to have the rifle go down due to factory ammo , which worked fine last year.

@NoLegs24 was shooting a 6.5PRC also, our barrels were ordered together and probably came off the line one after another from bartlein, they were both chambered one after another by Matt at Sawtooth rifles. He hand loaded 140 Nosler RDFs at 2950 and had no issues. The issue here comes down to the 147 ELDM. Factory ammo should not come apart like this.

According to the RPM formula (12/8 = 1.5*3060 = 4590*60 = 275,400RPM) these 147s should not have been coming apart. Anything over 290,000 rpm is the danger zone for bullets coming apart.

Ended up getting lucky and borrowed 2 separate rifles. Most of the match I shot an Axial Precision chambered in 25SST in a manners EH1A and a steiner m7xi MSR2 with a prototype Elite Iron suppressor. When ammo was getting low, I swapped and shot a 6.5cm

anyone else see the 147ELDMs come apart on them?
 
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BCX

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Yes, search online. The web is littered w targets and complaints.
 

hic28

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Yes google is but the hide isn’t. Probably should have clarified I made the post here because there is only a thread about the 180s
 

hic28

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There are post here.
broadened the search and found a few but they don’t have much info and died pretty quickly. Hornady needs to unfuck the 147s and the only way they will is if enough people speak up. more threads the better, repeatable problems need to be fixed.
 

DJL2

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I've only got a Creed...don't imagine I'll see it...haven't yet, but I've got 200 or so sitting around for a rainy day (wasn't able to get 140 at the time).
 

midgetorama

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FWIW, I was in Casper and lost a total of 14 Sierra 150 MKs over the two days (6.5 PRC at 2980 fps). This was a Bartlein 7.5-twist that had 729 rounds of nothing but H1000 and 150 SMKs on it when I finished the match. I called Sierra and they told me my load was over pressure.

Another in my squad lost 6 A-tip 153s out of a Kreiger 8-twist 6.5-284 at a rather innocuous 2820 fps (less than 1000 rounds of H1000). A neighboring squad had a shooter loose about half of his 153 A-tips out of a 6.5 PRC on day 1, cleaned his rifle Saturday night then had better results Sunday but still experienced disintegrating bullets. Very low round count rifle built specifically for that match.

No consistency in mine really. Some would let go 100 yards out with an audible pop and grey cloud. Some would veer off like I sliced a drive off of the tee. Others, the spotters would lose trace roughly halfway to the target with no splash on or near the target.

...wondering if it's more of a medium to large-size 6.5 issue... I'd love to know the root cause. I bought a Teslong when I got home but was unable to identify any obvious issues in the bore.
 

Steel head

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I had them blow at 2800ish.
I certainly wasn’t alone in having problems with them.
There’s a fairly current thread on it.
In recent times I’ve had 285, 180, 190A-tip and 147eldm’s Blow up.
 
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264win

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I had a buddy with a 7.5 twist Creedmoor and an 8 twist prc run into the same issue with the 147s. Neither load was very hot.
There are guys who say they have run thousands of them and never had a problem, but clearly there is an issue that keeps cropping up.
 

hic28

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Post #3. Plenty on google that I read. I was talking about here. The one about jacket separation here has 7 posts. Mine has 10 in less than 2 hours.

more threads can’t hurt, seems like a ton of people are having problems. Hornady should address the problem. At this point I’m not spending any more money on anything they produce.
 

goosed

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I was among the bleeding edge with issues on the factory 147 creed ammo 3+ years ago. Response back then from Hornady and on SH was essentially that I was idiot and I was the issue.

It's really too bad this same issue continues to pop up every year.

Have you contacted Hornady?
 
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Huskydriver

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I have had 225s come apart in my 1-9 300 Norma and I have had 147s do this as well... Hornady will just tell you to F yourself and learn to reload
 
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NoLegs24

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First saw this issue back in 2018 NF ELR match with Velayo. But some said it was because of a 7twist. Some even blamed Proof’s 4groove barrels.
But it’s happening on slower twist rates that are on Bartleins as well
Others have come up to me after this past weekends match that they saw this too off of slow 6.5CM factory load or 6.5PRC handloads.

I guess people love Hornady too much that they blame the shooter, twist rate, groove of barrel or barrel brand before going ape s* on the Bullet/ ammo manufacturer.

Guess we need to stop being peasants and buy A-Tips to not get any failures 🤷🏻‍♂️
But then again, someone just said it happened with 190gr A-Tips 🤣😂🤣
 

BytorJr

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So does this happen routinely with 6.5 CM factory ammo? Or more the PRC.

If on CM it seems like 1:7.5 and not 1:8?
 

BCX

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At this point best thing to do is shoot Berger. This issue has been going on for some time now and no fix in sight. When you call, they blame everything but their product.
 

morganlamprecht

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I bought 800 rounds of the same lot. Last year 300 rounds with not a single failure. This year, same barrel, same lot, 85% failure
this sounds like a bullet that was BARELYYYYY acceptable from the jump, meeting its end once the barrel/throat got a little rough

i had similar issues with the long hornadys, but mine were 88 elds...they all hit paper at 100, but 2-3 out of 10 were 1"+ fliers...then 20 rounds fired at 200, only made 18 holes

i just ditched em for berger again and havent looked back
 
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Kchud0341

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I had this happen with factory hornday ammo in my 6.5 Creedmoor. I had a case of it for a match. I was working up a load with the new Berger 144s and wasn't sure id get to finish load develolment before the match. After shooting all my load develolment for the day I decided to zero my rifle to the 147s. Out of a box of 20 I only had 6 impacts on target at 100 yards (target stand was a 4' x 4' sheet of plywood). My rifle has a 28" 1:7 twist Bartlien and was avergeing around 2810 fps. What made this super frustrating was that my financés rifle with a 23 inch 1:8 twist pushing the same ammo around 2620 fps did not have this issue.

So does this happen routinely with 6.5 CM factory ammo? Or more the PRC.

If on CM it seems like 1:7.5 and not 1:8?
 

AricaPuki

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I had this happen with factory hornday ammo in my 6.5 Creedmoor. I had a case of it for a match. I was working up a load with the new Berger 144s and wasn't sure id get to finish load develolment before the match. After shooting all my load develolment for the day I decided to zero my rifle to the 147s. Out of a box of 20 I only had 6 impacts on target at 100 yards (target stand was a 4' x 4' sheet of plywood). My rifle has a 28" 1:7 twist Bartlien and was avergeing around 2810 fps. What made this super frustrating was that my financés rifle with a 23 inch 1:8 twist pushing the same ammo around 2620 fps did not have this issue.
Just curious when you say "Out of a box of 20 I only had 6 impacts on target at 100 yards". Didn't you look at the target as to where you hit after you fired a shot? Or, do you assume it went through the same hole?
 

Davehc130

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I had the same issue....bullets blowing up at 2800 FPS....not sure what the hell happened to Hornady but I am done with them...sticking with Berger and Sierra in my 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Creed and 6 GT....
 
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db2000

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Same story here w/ 147 ELDM's in a 6.5 PRC at only 270K rpm's. Witnessed by multiple people spotting. I have also shot a ton of them and worked fine. I'm on to 156 EOL's now. Hornady denied ever finding an issue but emailed a return shipping label to replace them and reported they would "test my returns". Seems unbelievable they haven't found and the issue with so many claims.
Here's a thread I posted a few good links in explaining possible theories behind this.
 

Steel head

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Just curious when you say "Out of a box of 20 I only had 6 impacts on target at 100 yards". Didn't you look at the target as to where you hit after you fired a shot? Or, do you assume it went through the same hole?
Ummm,,,,maybe combined with the thread title and other posts you could assume that the bullet went poof before it could get to the target.
 

BytorJr

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I had this happen with factory hornday ammo in my 6.5 Creedmoor. I had a case of it for a match. I was working up a load with the new Berger 144s and wasn't sure id get to finish load develolment before the match. After shooting all my load develolment for the day I decided to zero my rifle to the 147s. Out of a box of 20 I only had 6 impacts on target at 100 yards (target stand was a 4' x 4' sheet of plywood). My rifle has a 28" 1:7 twist Bartlien and was avergeing around 2810 fps. What made this super frustrating was that my financés rifle with a 23 inch 1:8 twist pushing the same ammo around 2620 fps did not have this issue.
Hmmm, I pre-ordered this ammo because I knew I was getting a 6.5 and admittedly didn't research a lot - went for the unreal BC. Mine is a Craddock 1:7.5 Bartlein. Haven't had time to mount optics, sight in and all that. I guess the proof will be in the pudding. Maybe my next batch should be 140ELD or 143ELD-x...

It does seem Hornady has some serious QC issues. Wondering if their focus on all these new rounds over the past 5 years has diluted their QC department. Makes me wonder if I want the 6mm ARC now too. Or maybe I'd better start reloading..... I'll need a bigger garage ;).
 

Kchud0341

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Ummm,,,,maybe combined with the thread title and other posts you could assume that the bullet went poof before it could get to the target.
^This would be correct. I had a large target down range at the 100 yard target (A box to bench load development target) and was holding dead center on the target (after I tried 3 rounds and got zero impacts on a smaller shoot and see target). After firing I went and checked the target because I was not seeing any splash on the berm around the target as I was firing and my spotter was not noticing any impacts or splashes around the target, I could not find anything on the 4' x 4' sheet of plywood that lined up or added up to 14 missed shots in a similar area. The only conclusion I could come to was that the bullets were not making it to the target at 100 yards repeatably and the 6 rounds that I did manage to get on target did not group very well. At this point I just decided to quickly finish my load development the next range outing because I have zero faith in running the 147 GR ELD- Matches from my rifle ever again. Once I got the rifle back home I rechecked everything. Everything was torqued to spec, I even pulled the barrel off to inspect and there were no issues, ran a few patches down it and didn't see anything funny there either. It is worth noting that I have fired a lot of ammo out of this rifle from various manufactures and I have never had to move my zero more than +/- .4 mils up/down or left/right when switching ammo or when i switch the barrels back and forth. It very well could have been a bad lot of bullets, but I think I will just stick with my Berger bullets from now on.
 

Vandy321

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i picked up a 6.5 PRC bbl with 400 rounds down it...no stated issues with factory 147 ELD-M. Same results on my end, 80+ down the tube so far on my end, zero failures.

It's a 26" 1:8 bartlein that chrono's at 3085 (up here in the thin CO summer air)

I know nothing about ballistics, but could it be those 1:7s are just too fast for that bullet?
 
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BCX

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i picked up a 6.5 PRC bbl with 400 rounds down it...no stated issues with factory 147 ELD-M. Same results on my end, 80+ down the tube so far on my end, zero failures.

It's a 26" 1:8 bartlein that chrono's at 3085 (up here in the thin CO summer air)

I know nothing about ballistics, but could it be those 1:7s are just too fast for that bullet?
Original 6.5 PRC reamer print had 1-7 and 1-7.5 now they redesigned their ELD they change to 1-8 due to bullet failure. Funny guys still having issues w 1-8.
 

BCX

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Brass, bullets and horrible ES, SD numbers w factory ammo. No Thanks unless its handgun ammo.
 

BytorJr

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Brass, bullets and horrible ES, SD numbers w factory ammo. No Thanks unless its handgun ammo.
So, as a person who is not reloading, what would you recommend for the COTS solution? I'm kicking myself; but I saw the wave starting in November, but by March I just had to "pull the trigger" and buy some more.
 

BCX

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Berger makes good factory ammo. I also hear good thinks about Prime.

Not sure what cartridge your running?
 

Vandy321

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Horrible ES / SD? What were you seeing, just curious, not arguing. This round and rifle are pretty new to me, but i saw single digit SD over the chrono, and as previously stated zero failures from 80 rounds ( a small sample size, but still zero % failure rate)...and if I'm selling the once fired brass for $50 per 100 rounds, I don't know that I care about the brass life since i'm not reloading it. It's factory ammo, i'm not expecting to get handload quality out of it..but in my limited experience, I have no complaints. I just ordered 2 more cases this week.

Will be back to complain if/when they start shitting themselves 100 yards downrange though:confused:
 
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BCX

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I handload mainly. Have ran their ammo in 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 PRC, 308 win and 300 WM. Not uncommon to see ES of 40-60.
If its working for you,,,send it!
 

Kchud0341

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So, as a person who is not reloading, what would you recommend for the COTS solution? I'm kicking myself; but I saw the wave starting in November, but by March I just had to "pull the trigger" and buy some more.
Berger factory ammo while hard to find at times is possibly the best factory ammo I have run through my rifle and you get SRP Lapua brass for when you start reloading.
 
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BytorJr

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@BCX - 6.5CM.

I do save all my brass though, for pretty much anything - save 22 LR. :). Unfortunately, I need to figure out a better method of getting rounds out of the gravel in the shooting bays.
 

archangel485

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@hic28 I talked to a competitor at the Casper match who was having those issues with the 7mm 180 ELDMs as well, some of his bullets had dents in the jacket then a couple days later another guy I know shooting a 6.5 sherman showed me a picture of moon shaped holes in his target from the 153 a-tips. I hope Hornady addresses this, I've really like shooting their stuff but am nervous to buy more with all of these issues coming out.
 
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Huskydriver

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Just curious when you say "Out of a box of 20 I only had 6 impacts on target at 100 yards". Didn't you look at the target as to where you hit after you fired a shot? Or, do you assume it went through the same hole?
Did you not read the thread?
 
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Jayjay1

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At this point best thing to do is shoot Berger. This issue has been going on for some time now and no fix in sight. When you call, they blame everything but their product.
Berger is really expensive, not that I would say it is to expensive for the effort they put in the developement and the production, but it is to expensive for me.
If I have to pay that amount for only the bullet, I must shoot less, and that is no option.

So I go with Lapua bullets, knowing that their BC is not top notch, but the bullets are very well made for the price, and for me, accuracy comes before range.
Just my 2 cents.
 

archangel485

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Berger is really expensive, not that I would say it is to expensive for the effort they put in the developement and the production, but it is to expensive for me.
If I have to pay that amount for only the bullet, I must shoot less, and that is no option.

So I go with Lapua bullets, knowing that their BC is not top notch, but the bullets are very well made for the price, and for me, accuracy comes before range.
Just my 2 cents.
If you compare Berger to copper solids they're cheap! haha. But I do hear you, one of the great things about Hornady was relatively good consistency and quality with a low price tag. Sierra isn't much less than Berger if any. I do think Hornady will resolve this but it will be interesting to see what their solution is.
Has anyone heard Hornady address this? So far they seem to be pretty quiet on the issue.
 

Jayjay1

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I was a Hornady guy for a long time, beginning with the .224 bullets, using their brass and so on.
"10 bullets in one hole!", I liked that.
But lately I had some brass and bullets with failures, made a brass weighing with Hornady, Starline and Lapua which ended poor for Hornady, this makes me beginning to change my mind.
 
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richthe1

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I’m hoping to get into the ELR game. I was looking at 300 PRC with factory Hornady 225 ELD-M ammo, but now I’m second guessing that.
 

hic28

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@hic28 I talked to a competitor at the Casper match who was having those issues with the 7mm 180 ELDMs as well, some of his bullets had dents in the jacket then a couple days later another guy I know shooting a 6.5 sherman showed me a picture of moon shaped holes in his target from the 153 a-tips. I hope Hornady addresses this, I've really like shooting their stuff but am nervous to buy more with all of these issues coming out.
That’s interesting about the dents, all the factory ammo looks great, I might cut one open and see how thick the jacket is compared to other bullets in that Weight class


I’m hoping to get into the ELR game. I was looking at 300 PRC with factory Hornady 225 ELD-M ammo, but now I’m second guessing that.
I shot the 300prc at the NF ELR and finished 15th. Didn’t have any issues with them then. ES numbers were from 15-20. It makes me think though, could I have done better if I was shooting handloads with a known quality bullet like Berger’s?

I won’t be shooting the rest of the factory ammo at a match though. Gonna reload using berger 220s. All hornady ammo and bullets are tainted and not trustworthy as far as I’m concerned. To the point where my whole club will know about it and hopefully they switch to noslers or Bergers
 
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Steel head

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@hic28 I talked to a competitor at the Casper match who was having those issues with the 7mm 180 ELDMs as well, some of his bullets had dents in the jacket then a couple days later another guy I know shooting a 6.5 sherman showed me a picture of moon shaped holes in his target from the 153 a-tips. I hope Hornady addresses this, I've really like shooting their stuff but am nervous to buy more with all of these issues coming out.
I was loving the 180 eldm’s, shot out my initial lot of 500.
When I ordered more I suddenly started getting a lot of blow up, about a 40% pop rate.
I dropped speed 100+ FPS and they were still blowing up.
:(
 
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